Help getting over my shyness/fear of rejection

[DerekB]

Originally Posted by Sammino

Get yourself a serious girlfriend who loves math and business studies. she would be fascinated with your brains. she will teach you step by step about females, what they like/dislike..etc
I think this will save you, it will give you a kick start in the dating world at least.
don't hesitate to ask a nerdy girl in your class out. many of them turn to be real hotties when they're out of their shells.
go ahead man. you don't have to be "let loose". just own your seriousness and be happy about it for now.
do not give a damn what people think of you. get out of your head and be brave enough to ask a girl in your class out, one who does not intimidate you much.

Good luck

With all due respect, if I felt I could just go get myself a serious girlfriend, this thread wouldn't be here.

[sparkyartie]

i'm a couple years younger than you so it's ok if you think i'm just a kid and stuff, but i think you think about it a little too much. it's kinda negative and you seem really cool, maybe just try not to change things so much, worrying oh, girls dont like me, i'm so afraid of being rejected! it makes you all sad and stuff. you seem fine. i like you already! i think you put girls on a pedestal and you give them so much credit. in reality, i know tons of girls your age and even older who worry still about guys and being trejected by them. there are tons of videos on youtube about girls and getting the guy and not having confidence to do it and oh, does he like me he's so cute what if he doesnt feel the same way and blah blah blah. search does on google and the first thing that comes up is Does He Like Me. if it were me and a guy asked me to dance, oh my gosh it wouldn't matter what what he looked like, it would make my day!! you're special, you're you, no one else is exactly like you, if you just believed that you could do it, instead of thinking about it so much and being negative about it, then you could do it. go out and make some girl"s day!!!!!!

[DerekB]

Originally Posted by sparkyartie

i'm a couple years younger than you so it's ok if you think i'm just a kid and stuff, but i think you think about it a little too much. it's kinda negative and you seem really cool, maybe just try not to change things so much, worrying oh, girls dont like me, i'm so afraid of being rejected! it makes you all sad and stuff. you seem fine. i like you already! i think you put girls on a pedestal and you give them so much credit. in reality, i know tons of girls your age and even older who worry still about guys and being trejected by them. there are tons of videos on youtube about girls and getting the guy and not having confidence to do it and oh, does he like me he's so cute what if he doesnt feel the same way and blah blah blah. search does on google and the first thing that comes up is Does He Like Me. if it were me and a guy asked me to dance, oh my gosh it wouldn't matter what what he looked like, it would make my day!! you're special, you're you, no one else is exactly like you, if you just believed that you could do it, instead of thinking about it so much and being negative about it, then you could do it. go out and make some girl"s day!!!!!!

Hey Sparky, thanks for the comment. I definitely think too much, about everything, so I won't even pretend to try and argue otherwise. I feel like most people have an on/off switch for thinking and critical analysis, and they set it to off when they do things like flirt or dance. My current theory is that somebody gorilla glued my switch to the on position when I had my back turned many years ago.

[sparkyartie]

i'm really sorry...i don't want you to be sad. i just want you to be happy! but i was looking back at your previous comments and you said that a girl never liked you or something like that. that can't be true...girls like you. i know it. anyway, i won't be preachy, but i just want you to know that any girl would be lucky to havve you. you seem so lovable and sweet, and smart! you're not even perverted. you're an amazing person and i think you should leave it alone for a little bit.

[Supersomething]

Hey Derek, after reading your first post, it seems to me like you might have some habitual negative patterns of thinking about yourself. Not to put you on blast, but I just wanted to point out some thoughts that maybe you could question.

Originally Posted by DerekB

...recently I've gotten somewhat thinner, though I'm still a little overweight in my opinion, some of my friends say I'm average... I heard her laughing at me with her friends... she never had any intention of coming back... she didn't actually say this next thing, but the reason she wanted me to take her was because she had a lot of friends in my grade, and wanted to be able to hang out with them at the prom, we barely knew each other at all... telling me "I couldn't find you" despite the fact that I was at my assigned seat at our table... I honestly cannot think of one good memory I have from high school.

Are they really true, and if so, how do you know that? I'd recommend reading up on cognitive and behavioral therapies, or maybe even seeing someone who specializes in those to help you change. Check out the book Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness by Gillian Butler. It has some practical techniques for changing thoughts and behaviors.

I did, at the insistence of one of my new friends, ask a girl out on a date. I decided to do it because she had seemed to me to be hinting very strongly that she liked me (my friend thought so as well, she kept trying to take pictures with me and drew me a big sign of my name for my dorm room door, signed “love Ally”). I asked her out, and she said no.

Just try to remember that women have many reasons for saying no, some of which have nothing to do with you. Plus, that's just one girl. You've got how many more females at your school to ask out yet? Better get on that, my man. The more times you do ask a girl out, the less the outcome will matter to you. And if you develop more positive beliefs, it will be much easier to do.

I'm so tired of seeing girls going out with guys who don't really seem to care about them or value them.

There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that a few girls are emotionally damaged and get some sort of pleasure out of being in long-term dysfunctional relationships. The other is a matter of perception -- what you see as not really caring about or valuing a girl may actually be: simply not investing so much time early on in the relationship. Investing too much too soon signals that you don't have better things to do with your life or other girls to be with. Women like a guy who has options.

Look into changing the way you think and changing the way you communicate. If you're serious about change, formulate a plan and stick to it. Also check out the books Get Anyone to Do Anything (really not as evil as it sounds), and The Game -- the book that popularized the Pickup Artist movement and led to the VH1 show. (Someone else posted related Youtube links.) Be open, and at the same time, take everything with a grain of salt. Discover your own truth.

Oh yeah... Remember to have fun, and smile!

Originally Posted by sparkyartie

i'm a couple years younger than you so it's ok if you think i'm just a kid and stuff, but i think you think about it a little too much. it's kinda negative and you seem really cool, maybe just try not to change things so much, worrying oh, girls dont like me, i'm so afraid of being rejected! it makes you all sad and stuff. you seem fine. i like you already! i think you put girls on a pedestal and you give them so much credit. in reality, i know tons of girls your age and even older who worry still about guys and being trejected by them. there are tons of videos on youtube about girls and getting the guy and not having confidence to do it and oh, does he like me he's so cute what if he doesnt feel the same way and blah blah blah. search does on google and the first thing that comes up is Does He Like Me. if it were me and a guy asked me to dance, oh my gosh it wouldn't matter what what he looked like, it would make my day!! you're special, you're you, no one else is exactly like you, if you just believed that you could do it, instead of thinking about it so much and being negative about it, then you could do it. go out and make some girl"s day!!!!!!

This post rules so much.

[ButterflyWoman]

Erin just did a really great blog post on this topic. If you haven't seen it yet:

Rejection is a Blessing

[DerekB]

Originally Posted by Supersomething

Hey Derek, after reading your first post, it seems to me like you might have some habitual negative patterns of thinking about yourself. Not to put you on blast, but I just wanted to point out some thoughts that maybe you could question.



Are they really true, and if so, how do you know that? I'd recommend reading up on cognitive and behavioral therapies, or maybe even seeing someone who specializes in those to help you change. Check out the book Overcoming Social Anxiety and Shyness by Gillian Butler. It has some practical techniques for changing thoughts and behaviors.




Just try to remember that women have many reasons for saying no, some of which have nothing to do with you. Plus, that's just one girl. You've got how many more females at your school to ask out yet? Better get on that, my man. The more times you do ask a girl out, the less the outcome will matter to you. And if you develop more positive beliefs, it will be much easier to do.



There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that a few girls are emotionally damaged and get some sort of pleasure out of being in long-term dysfunctional relationships. The other is a matter of perception -- what you see as not really caring about or valuing a girl may actually be: simply not investing so much time early on in the relationship. Investing too much too soon signals that you don't have better things to do with your life or other girls to be with. Women like a guy who has options.

Look into changing the way you think and changing the way you communicate. If you're serious about change, formulate a plan and stick to it. Also check out the books Get Anyone to Do Anything (really not as evil as it sounds), and The Game -- the book that popularized the Pickup Artist movement and led to the VH1 show. (Someone else posted related Youtube links.) Be open, and at the same time, take everything with a grain of salt. Discover your own truth.

Oh yeah... Remember to have fun, and smile!



This post rules so much.

Hey Super,

Regarding your questions about my perception of things:

Being slightly overweight: Fact, not fiction.

Laughing at me: Relatively easy to tell when they point.

Never intended to come back: Trust me, there really wasn't even a good reason for her to go in the first place.

"Date's ulterior motives": My brother fessed up to me, so I know.

Date "couldn't find" me: Table was directly next to dance floor, I saw her, she saw me, maximum distance between us was about 10 feet.

One good memory: Can't think of any good memories I have which took place on school property. Not all were bad ones, but I'll never be 45 reminiscing about something that happened to me in high school.

The most common reason they say no appears to be that I'm asking.

[DerekB]

Originally Posted by Supersomething

.

Just try to remember that women have many reasons for saying no, some of which have nothing to do with you. Plus, that's just one girl. You've got how many more females at your school to ask out yet? Better get on that, my man. The more times you do ask a girl out, the less the outcome will matter to you. And if you develop more positive beliefs, it will be much easier to do.


Look into changing the way you think and changing the way you communicate. If you're serious about change, formulate a plan and stick to it. Also check out the books Get Anyone to Do Anything (really not as evil as it sounds), and The Game -- the book that popularized the Pickup Artist movement and led to the VH1 show. (Someone else posted related Youtube links.) Be open, and at the same time, take everything with a grain of salt. Discover your own truth.

Oh yeah... Remember to have fun, and smile!

What about asking more girls makes it easier? Every time they've told me no in the past it's just compounded the problem, I can't imagine how getting ten more no's makes it any easier. I know that being told no won't cause me bodily harm or anything, but it still hurts. Never having been on a date I feel like there's this cloud over me, and every rejection makes that cloud more ominous. It's humiliating that my friends might be talking about their first time doing XYZ and when they ask me about mine they look at me with equal parts embarrassment, pity, and incredulity. One of my good friends was hanging out with me by the pool, he was telling me about his girlfriend, then this happened:

Him: What's the most you've done with a girl?
Me: I'd prefer not to talk about this.
Him: Have you ever had sex?
Me: No
Him: Third base?
Me: What's third base again?
Him: Second base?
Me: Whats second base again?
Him: Wtf you've at least kissed a girl right?
Me: No, never.
Him: What about...
Me: I'm gonna stop you there, whatever questions your thinking about asking, just assume the answer is no. Now can we talk about something else?

It's incredibly embarrassing. And it's not like girls think to themselves: "Oh look, a 20 year old whose never even kissed a girl, gee whiz I sure would love to go out with him". Literally not once in human history has that event transpired.

To be fair to your point, I do have some negative thought patterns. I feel pretty depressed and embarrassed about the whole thing. That in turn causes low self confidence. Low self confidence causes girls to find me [more] unappealing. This causes me to feel depressed and embarrassed. And so it's come full circle.

[Supersomething]

Originally Posted by DerekB

Hey Super,

Regarding your questions about my perception of things:

Being slightly overweight: Fact, not fiction.

Laughing at me: Relatively easy to tell when they point.

Never intended to come back: Trust me, there really wasn't even a good reason for her to go in the first place.

"Date's ulterior motives": My brother fessed up to me, so I know.

Date "couldn't find" me: Table was directly next to dance floor, I saw her, she saw me, maximum distance between us was about 10 feet.

One good memory: Can't think of any good memories I have which took place on school property. Not all were bad ones, but I'll never be 45 reminiscing about something that happened to me in high school.

The most common reason they say no appears to be that I'm asking.

Thanks for your response, man. I was just suggesting that you start to question your thoughts. It works for me... thinking something like, "What evidence do I have to support that, and is it valid?" Pointing and laughing at you, in addition to being a ****** thing for someone to do, is some tough evidence. So what then? Well, you could try a different approach. Maybe girls would respond differently to you if you changed the way you asked them out.

Originally Posted by DerekB

What about asking more girls makes it easier? Every time they've told me no in the past it's just compounded the problem, I can't imagine how getting ten more no's makes it any easier. I know that being told no won't cause me bodily harm or anything, but it still hurts. Never having been on a date I feel like there's this cloud over me, and every rejection makes that cloud more ominous. It's humiliating that my friends might be talking about their first time doing XYZ and when they ask me about mine they look at me with equal parts embarrassment, pity, and incredulity. One of my good friends was hanging out with me by the pool, he was telling me about his girlfriend, then this happened:

Him: What's the most you've done with a girl?
Me: I'd prefer not to talk about this.
Him: Have you ever had sex?
Me: No
Him: Third base?
Me: What's third base again?
Him: Second base?
Me: Whats second base again?
Him: Wtf you've at least kissed a girl right?
Me: No, never.
Him: What about...
Me: I'm gonna stop you there, whatever questions your thinking about asking, just assume the answer is no. Now can we talk about something else?

It's incredibly embarrassing. And it's not like girls think to themselves: "Oh look, a 20 year old whose never even kissed a girl, gee whiz I sure would love to go out with him". Literally not once in human history has that event transpired.

To be fair to your point, I do have some negative thought patterns. I feel pretty depressed and embarrassed about the whole thing. That in turn causes low self confidence. Low self confidence causes girls to find me [more] unappealing. This causes me to feel depressed and embarrassed. And so it's come full circle.

You're right in that rejection can be difficult to take. Of course, I never said it got easier. I did say that the outcome matters less when you ask more girls out. And I should have clarified: continually. If you ask one girl out a year over 10 years, the tenth isn't going to matter any less than the first. But if you talk to 3 girls a day, by the end of the month, you'll have forgotten most of their names.

You're also correct in that rejection will cause you no bodily harm. That was an important sentence. So you know rationally that rejection won't cause you physical pain. Good. I love the phrase, "What's the worst that could happen?" It comes in handy sometimes.

But I should back up a bit. You're right that it can be downright difficult and can feel near impossible to summon the willpower to continue doing something that hurts each time you attempt it. It's like touching a hot stove over and over again. After a while, you're brain goes, "Dude, you're crazy. There's no way my finger's going near that thing again!" And that's when you get the Ove-Glove, my friend. In other words, acquire some new skills and change how you're communicating to girls you like.

Look into the books I recommended. Look up some PUA resources online. I say that with caution, because there's a lot of douchebags and weirdos out there, but the fundamentals are solid and definitely helpful for a guy looking to improve his skills with women. A buddy of mine was a virgin until he was 23, and now he dates dozens of girls a year.

Oh, and as far as your friends or other girls go... I've never told a girl how much experience I've had, whether it was a little or a lot. (Except for my first time -- I lied and told her I wasn't a virgin.) If she asks, there are ways around that question. Your friends... well, if they're your friends then they'll probably want to help you or at least not judge you. Of course, you always have the option of little white lying when it comes to any of this stuff.

It might be hard work, but you can get better with girls, trust me. Everyone feels unconfident and depressed sometimes. I had a girl say to me recently, "You're like the most confident person I know!" and I laughed because a lot of the time I don't feel confident. Goes to show that perceptions can vary.

Anyway, hope this helps you out to some degree. Good luck, man.

[DerekB]

Supersomething, first of all, thanks for taking the time to make those detailed posts, I appreciate it. Do those PUA books really help? And maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they targeted more towards guys who are already pretty confident? Also, at the risk of sounding like a broken record: I really have huge difficulty asking girls out. Plus, even if I could work up the confidence/courage to do it again (and don't hold your breath on that), I wouldn't even know what to say, how to say it, what to suggest we do, whats appropriate for anything, etc. I know nothing.

[DerekB]

Originally Posted by CaterpillarWoman

Erin just did a really great blog post on this topic. If you haven't seen it yet:

Rejection is a Blessing

I bolded the difference between me and this Adam guy in the article. He's had a connection, I haven't. He has experienced something besides rejection.

I take it as a sign of incompatibility and move on until I find something I can connect with. I don’t invest my entire sense of self-worth in getting one single girl to go out with me. That would be silly. There’s no way that every girl on the planet will be a match for me. So I’ll keep going until I find someone I connect with who wants to connect with me.

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by DerekB

I bolded the difference between me and this Adam guy in the article. He's had a connection, I haven't. He has experienced something besides rejection.

I take it as a sign of incompatibility and move on until I find something I can connect with. I don’t invest my entire sense of self-worth in getting one single girl to go out with me. That would be silly. There’s no way that every girl on the planet will be a match for me. So I’ll keep going until I find someone I connect with who wants to connect with me.

Derek, I am going to reply to you here, because I want to say first of all that almost everything you have written in this thread is stuff that I could have said myself! So please understand that I know exactly how you feel.

I have the exact same problem, in that I have a huge problem with rejection myself. And I don't agree either with all the posters here that say you simply need to DO it and get used to rejection. That is not to say that I don't think it's a good idea to experience rejection. It can be, but I do think it all matters on how you PROCESS those rejections. I HAVE managed to get myself to talk to a few women I found attractive, very few mind you, but I HAVE done it and I know what a rejection is like. And I can honestly tell you that if you get rejected and can't ACCEPT those rejections, things will only get worse, not better. So getting rejected a lot is not automatically the answer, I think.

Unfortunately I cannot help you on how to become more confident and self-loving because I struggle with that myself.

But I would like to point out that a lot of the rationalizations you are making in this thread are nothing more than self-deception, luring you away from the real issue, and that as long as you continue doing that you will never get better with this. Please stop doing that, it does you no good. One thing that struck me particularly (because I used to do this!) is the thing you said in post #19: that you don't need EVERY girl in the world to like you, but it would be nice if at least ONE would.

And here in your latest post you again bolded the difference between you and Adam, saying that he can go through rejections because he has already had a connection with women so he knows he can just go through rejections until he connects again.

This suggests to me that you DO want every girl that you approach to like you! Think about it and be honest. If you see a girl you like and think about approaching her, and she rejects you, it would make you feel bad about YOURSELF. And since you don't want to experience that pain, you avoid doing it, but this DOES mean that you want all girls that you think about approaching to like you! If it were really true you would be happy if there's just one among them that would like you, then you could do the very thing that Adam does, namely go approach a bunch of girls UNTIL you find that one that likes you. But you don't want to do that, because you don't want to have to go through the pain of getting rejected maybe loads of times before you GET to this girl, correct? I know I sure don't!

Of course, you might believe that there is NO girl out there that would like you as you are right now. But since you apparently like logical thinking, you should easily be able to see how flawed that thinking is. How many girls have you approached and how many are there in the world? You simply cannot claim that there would be no one out there for you, even without you being confident and all, without having talked to all of the girls. It might be very hard for you to trust that there IS one, but LOGICALLY you know your thinking is false, so there is absolutely NOTHING to be gained from thinking that.

I guess the point of all my rambling is that as long as you continue to focus on this kind of thinking it will distract you from the real issue, for as long as you live! You can grow old and miserable from it, trust me on this one. I really feel your pain, because I know exactly what it is like. But it seems to me that the only way to fix this is to learn to love and accept yourself more, THEN go out and use your courage and approach girls. As I said before I cannot help you how to do THAT, because I don't know, but it's my belief that this is key.

Also, I would like to point out that I'm considerably older than you and at your age I felt just as bad as you do with regard to women and probably even worse! I know it may not look like it now but you're not doomed to a future life standing by the sidelines dreaming of cute girls while every other guy is out having fun with them! You have so many years left to work on your self-esteem, to come to a new awareness, to get help from others, you have no idea what can still happen in the future. As I get older every year I am starting to agree more and more with a quote I once read "There is nothing sadder than a young pessimist" or something of that nature. I know that is probably not much consolation to you now, but just try to remain optimistic by changing how you view your circumstances. Yes, they may be ****** right now, but try to take a much bigger picture view, how this period you're going through right now might fit into your whole life experience. You have many more years to live and you have no idea of all the things that can happen in those coming years. I don't just mean with regard to women, but at any moment, you might get a phone call, meet a stranger, read a book, or sit next to someone in an airplane that might change your whole life. You gotta live with this kind of hope, or what's the point? I will leave you with a quote "Nobody knows enough to be a pessimist". I hope everything works out for you in the end!

[Lisa McGregor]

Are you comfortable with physical contact? I don't mean necessarily in a romantic way, just people touching or hugging you,etc.

L

[GeorgePH]

Derek

At 19, I was in pretty much in the same situation as you. No social skills, poor luck with women, and the persistent thought that something was wrong with me.

Then, I read a book called "The Game" and found out about the pick-up artist community. The experience changed my life, because I realized that any man can become good with women. Seriously - any able-bodied man.

You're no exception. I strongly encourage you to read The Game and read some PUA stuff. If you want some more personal advice, PM me (or leave a comment at my blog). I should be able to answer most questions about the community.

Regarding myself. A year before reading "The Game," I met an incredible girl. She was 2 years older than I, and way cooler. All her guy friends were bigger, richer and older than I was, and I remember thinking: "a woman like that would never even look at a guy like me."

When we met again - four years later - we started dating immediately. The relationship ended after 20 months together (on a positive note) as some relationships do. What matters, though, is that I had a kick-ass relationship with the woman of my dreams thanks to the lessons I learned as a PUA.

(I should probably mention that the "PUA" label is unfortunate, because it's not really about picking up/sleeping with as many women as possible. It's about improving your social skills and having the freedom to do what you want to when it comes to women.)

Edit:

Originally Posted by DerekB

Supersomething, first of all, thanks for taking the time to make those detailed posts, I appreciate it. Do those PUA books really help? And maybe I'm wrong, but aren't they targeted more towards guys who are already pretty confident?

Just read The Game .

[whatname]

Originally Posted by DerekB

What about asking more girls makes it easier? Every time they've told me no in the past it's just compounded the problem, I can't imagine how getting ten more no's makes it any easier. I know that being told no won't cause me bodily harm or anything, but it still hurts. Never having been on a date I feel like there's this cloud over me, and every rejection makes that cloud more ominous. It's humiliating that my friends might be talking about their first time doing XYZ and when they ask me about mine they look at me with equal parts embarrassment, pity, and incredulity. One of my good friends was hanging out with me by the pool, he was telling me about his girlfriend, then this happened:

Him: What's the most you've done with a girl?
Me: I'd prefer not to talk about this.
Him: Have you ever had sex?
Me: No
Him: Third base?
Me: What's third base again?
Him: Second base?
Me: Whats second base again?
Him: Wtf you've at least kissed a girl right?
Me: No, never.
Him: What about...
Me: I'm gonna stop you there, whatever questions your thinking about asking, just assume the answer is no. Now can we talk about something else?

It's incredibly embarrassing. And it's not like girls think to themselves: "Oh look, a 20 year old whose never even kissed a girl, gee whiz I sure would love to go out with him". Literally not once in human history has that event transpired.

To be fair to your point, I do have some negative thought patterns. I feel pretty depressed and embarrassed about the whole thing. That in turn causes low self confidence. Low self confidence causes girls to find me [more] unappealing. This causes me to feel depressed and embarrassed. And so it's come full circle.

I've been signed up for a while, but every time I've gone to post something about my situation, I realised I already know the answer to my problems, but maybe some of my experiences can help.

A bit of background on myself first. I'm from Australia, I'm a 27 year old guy and I've had exactly the same amount of experience as you have. The difference between you and me? I've started to present an attitude of not really caring about meeting someone. I say started to because I still do care about it, I just don't focus on it so much. I've also cut some areas out of my life that cause stress. I cancelled all my online dating accounts because I find it so much harder to even just talk to people through online dating than I do in real life and it was causing me stress and sending me into a depression.

Like you, I'm also a pretty decent singer. Nothing to write home about, but just slightly better than average. Not sure how the nightlife works overseas, but cover bands are really big in Australia and I've got some mates that play around the place that know I'm a pretty decent singer and let me have a chorus of a song every now and then. If you've got mates in bands (or if you can get into one) do it. Even doing as little as I do I get at least a little attention from the women around. I haven't quite worked up to doing anything about it, but it's progress for me.

Dancing is an area that I find most people think they aren't all that good at. The best thing to do if you think you can't dance is to pull out some old, dusty moves and just make a fool of yourself. Bust out the sprinkler, the swim or some other 60's dance move that looks totally out of place these days because, at the end of the day, it's about getting noticed. There's a reason the saying "There's no such thing as bad publicity" exists. Wear some item of clothing that makes you stand out. I was in Europe for a year and made a point of wearing a felt top hat everywhere I went. It made such an impression on people that about two years after I got home I was at a concert with 30,000 people (without the hat this time) and someone picked me out of the crowd and said they knew me from Europe (I couldn't remember them for the life of me, but I living in a hostel for a year. There were lots of faces that went through that place).

For me the process of building my self esteem is a long journey. It's about setting goals (even small goals like just talking to someone) and realising that you can do each and every step on the way there. It's also about learning what works for you. I try not to talk to people I've just met through the internet or text messages. The spoken word can convey so much more than the written word can. The tone of voice and how you say something can be just as important as the words themselves. Interacting verbally with people also removes the 'thinking' factor for me as well. If I've got time to compose a reply I over think it, but if I'm talking to someone I fly by the seat of my pants a bit more and may say or do something I might not normally. I know that's generally what I do, but you need to find your own way.

[DerekB]

The game came out a reasonably long time ago, is there anything newer/better that's come out since then?

[DerekB]

Second question: am I allowed to post a link to a picture of myself in this thread? If so, what's a good way to put pictures up?

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by DerekB

Second question: am I allowed to post a link to a picture of myself in this thread? If so, what's a good way to put pictures up?

Yes, you can link to a pic of yourself that's up on photobucket or somewhere similar. There's an "insert image" button that lets you add the URL of the picture.

[DerekB]

Ok than, here's a link to a few of my better pictures for anyone who cares to see

Login to a private Photobucket.com album

the password for the album is derekb

[DerekB]

So...anyone have any advice/analysis to offer now that I put up some pictures of myself?

[papichulo]

What separates the guys who are successful from those who aren't?

The guys who succeed don't get hungup on rejection, they simply go on to the next woman (e.g shotgun approach).

Everyone gets rejected. If you personalize it and think you're somehow defective because a few people have no interest you for whatever reason, then you'll simply lose out on other opportunities. Some women just aren't ready for relationships, aren't looking, may be involved with someone else, are just b*tches, wanting a guy to hit on them to feel better about themselves and nothing more, or only date a certain TYPE of guy.

[GeorgePH]

Originally Posted by DerekB

So...anyone have any advice/analysis to offer now that I put up some pictures of myself?

My advice is still the same as it was last time I posted here.

The truth is, you are not looking for help; you're looking for an ego boost. You have been given all the tools and directions you need, but you're still expecting to be coddled. You will not succeed with that mentality.

Assume responsibility for your love life from now on. Neither I nor any of the other posters here can make a magic wand to make everything better. No more excuses: start by reading The Game and readiing my post from earlier in the thread. If you run into any problems, I will PERSONALLY help you.

Or you can continue to make excuses, procrastinate and overanalyze everything. Your choice.

P.S. You look fine; not that looks matter much for men.

[DerekB]

I've already started reading it. For the record though, I'm not here for an ego boost. Like I've already said several times, personally I think I'm fine, even what some might consider a catch. I'm not sitting here saying "I'm inadequate and deficient in important categories (intelligence, humor, etc) and that's why girls don't like me". I'm here to understand why I struggle so much with girls despite having a lot to offer and to figure out how to overcome it.

[GeorgePH]

Originally Posted by DerekB

I've already started reading it. For the record though, I'm not here for an ego boost. Like I've already said several times, personally I think I'm fine, even what some might consider a catch. I'm not sitting here saying "I'm inadequate and deficient in important categories (intelligence, humor, etc) and that's why girls don't like me". I'm here to understand why I struggle so much with girls despite having a lot to offer and to figure out how to overcome it.

In that case, congratulations on making your first steps in the right direction!

Now, about you being a catch. That may very well be right, but your social skills and confidence need to be developed. Unfortunately, you won't get better with girls by discussing, dissecting and analyzing your problems on these forums. Start reading and - more importantly - start taking action!

I just want to repeat, again, that you think way too much. Think simple instead. To get better at something you need to practice.

So if you go out and start interacting with girls, you'll get better at talking to them. If you keep trying to make sense of what your problem is, you'll only get better at over-thinking problems.

[DerekB]

So I'm about two thirds of The Game, and its certainly interesting. Having said that, it doesn't seem like its going to do me any good. I'm a 19 and in college in New England, there are no clubs around me. The girls that are at these parties sometimes know me, and those that don't know me at least know people who do. Also, the vast majority of the book deals with the process Strauss believes will land you a date, but the part about approach anxiety is short and minimally helpful, at least in my opinion. I'll finish the book, but I don't expect it will yield much good. At this point I've basically just given up. My fraternity is throwing a Halloween dance as I'm writing this. Everybody on campus is going to try to get in. Meanwhile, I just can't justify going to another party and being extremely uncomfortable for several hours before finally going home alone. I'm just tired. I'm tired of all of this.

[Brutha]

She said yes, which is great, right? Well, it would've been, if she didn't say that she was just going to take a break for a while, and we'd dance later.

She never came back (she never had any intention of coming back).

It the general social custom that the man is supposed to reapproach in such a situation.

It was awkward all night, and she didn't even dance with me for the last song, telling me "I couldn't find you" despite the fact that I was at my assigned seat at our table.

You were the guy and therefore had the role of coming to her.

The fact that those girls didn't come to you isn't rejection.

Anyway, the moral of that little story was that I just feel incredibly awkward when I'm supposed to dance or be "loose".

There an easy solution to the dancing people:
Take proper dancing classes.

At the beginning it will be a bit akward but you will learn dancing.

[DerekB]

Brutha,

Re-approaching is impossible when they disappear. I looked for her, I couldn't find her. The point I was making was that she intentionally disappeared.

I didn't go to her because she was dancing with somebody else before the last song even started.

To my knowledge there aren't any dance classes that would cover the stuff done at a frat party or something like that. And even if there are, the bigger issue is the psychological outlook I have towards dancing. I just don't understand how or why people feel like dancing. It doesn't add up to me. I love music, absolutely love it. I listen to it constantly. But I've never understood dancing, its like watching people do jumping jacks while they eat, it doesn't make sense to me. I've never felt some sort of compulsion to move my body as a result of hearing music. The only reason it bothers me is that I'm the only person I know who feels this way. Therefore, it makes sense that there must be something wrong with me, not humanity.

[DerekB]

So, question: am I screwed up enough that I need to see a psychologist or some professional, because while I appreciate the time and insight you all have given me since the beginning of this thread, nothing has helped. It's been several months and literally not one thing has changed. I'm beyond exasperated at this point, I don't derive any enjoyment from my life, and haven't for years. I haven't been able to go five minutes, nevermind a day, without thinking about this. I'm not suicidal, but that's because I'm holding on to the idea that I can't ever be "100% sure" things will continue the way they are. Also, I have an incredibly strong fear of death, partially for fear that there's nothing afterward, and mostly because I feel like I still haven't gotten to live.