People seem cold inside to me.

[Gabo]

Hey RedRain,

I'm sorry you feel such coldness from the people you meet.
It feels terrible to feel unloved or uncared for.
I don't know how to help, but I sincerely hope you find what you're looking for.

Wishing you the best, bud.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by RedRain

Genuinely caring about someone is very, very complicated. Sometimes cutting someone off is exactly what they need. I am not saying I am always in a genuinely caring mood. I am just saying it is not often what is on the surface that shows love.

Deep love is coming to someone where they are, not saying to them, 'You are in the wrong place, come over here.'

I am nowhere near feeling real love for everyone, but I think I am better off than some because I know what love is not.

Interesting. I can definitely understand you feeling coldness from Angela. I actually felt that way with her at first. I now see that she has so much warmth! And I am drawn to it. But I think that when you are standing in a place that Angela disagrees with, and you disagree with her, then she can seem cold. She kind of sticks to her one way of explaining things, and this often results in a very powerful, vibrant, and consistent way for her that I have come to love... but it's a lot like the way Steve communicates, and it has always come across as kind of fixed to me.

I can also understand you seeing coldness in my previous posts, although you haven't specifically said that. I do realize that I get self-absorbed in a lot of my posts. I want to try to be more present to the other, more dynamic, you know? Rather than just getting carried away in my own thoughts... although there's nothing wrong with that. I still want to connect more... I want to feel that warmth, like you do.

Less thinky and more feely, like Criseyde said. To feel the other and change course of conversation as feels appropriate, rather than just trying to think the other through logically. There are different courses of logic, and I don't always feel the need to stick to one... context is important.

I'm sorry to see what happened to your thread, RedRain... I see you are making a genuine effort... that you could describe love the way you did above shows me what warmth you already possess.

I don't know if I can say anything to reach you in a place of warmth for you. Everyone's different... what works for me won't necessarily work for you. That much I understand, and I think that's a point you would like to make. It's a tendency I have and a lot of other people here have (including Steve) - to think that because something deeply inspired us and made sense to us that it's going to be the same thing that works for everyone... You are where you are, and you must find your way... that said, you are asking for others' thoughts, so maybe you can at least try to glean something helpful from people you perceive as telling you that you are in a wrong place.

I have been in a place of despair before... of fearing the coldness, of fearing that I would drop off into some abyss of hell. I understand how frightening and uncomfortable that is. I hope you find what resonates with you soon. You are a beautiful person, and you deserve to have much warmth in your life! I want to feel you where you are, I really do. There is something incredibly moving about multiplying the sense of self-awareness by two - when you feel so connected to another's heart-mind that you feel like you're a double consciousness. It's the social animal in us.

I dunno... Though our paths are different, and though it may be difficult to communicate between them, I feel they are so similar and connected.

Good luck, RedRain!

[RedRain]

Cool stuff, Cochonette. Not everything you said resonates, but I appreciate your willingness to adapt.

It is beautiful, really. very beautiful.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by RedRain

Genuinely caring about someone is very, very complicated. Sometimes cutting someone off is exactly what they need. I am not saying I am always in a genuinely caring mood. I am just saying it is not often what is on the surface that shows love.

Deep love is coming to someone where they are, not saying to them, 'You are in the wrong place, come over here.'

I am nowhere near feeling real love for everyone, but I think I am better off than some because I know what love is not.

Are you wanting someone to feel deep love for who you are, exactly where you are?

I guarantee there are people who offer you this. I think you reject their deep love.

Look at the people on this forum coming to you offering their sincere selves in whatever way they might be useful, trying to help you in whatever way they can imagine, or whatever way you request.

It's like you are testing them, like you want to prove that their instinctive love for you, their automatic feeling of brotherhood with you, is false.

You're trying to prove that they don't like you at all and that nobody actually likes anyone else.

You will abuse anyone who tries to love you, and if they love you harder, you'll abuse them harder, responding to every act or word of love with cold meanness.

It's a funny little predicament you've got yourself in. Ultimately most people are going to have to love you from a distance -- because they also love themselves they'll have to eventually withdraw from your abuse to avoid being harmed.

You're not the only person in the world who needs love.

[180]

Humans as with any animal are born with selfish genes. The only reason we do things altruistically is because they benefit us. Ultimately, every we action we take is selfish. It's why people die in stampedes. Someone screams bomb and everyones out to save themselves. Does anyone think that mother nature gives us Fruits from the kindness of her heart. Hell no they are made so that their seeds get digested and we do them the favor of spreading their progeny in different areas.

Anyways I really think how friendly people are depends on where you live.

I don't doubt your experiences RedRain, in fact mine might be similar... I've been cheated, robbed, decieved, taken advantage of, etc...

Anyways, it's the enviroment that creates us. People who grow up in more isolated religious areas tend to be really kind. But find a mixed inner city of poverty wealth and you have very unfriendly and untrusting people. As they should. We've all been cheated at some point or another. I don't smile on the train for no reason. If someone comes up to me and asks for a minute of my time I know they want something.

Anyways, it's inevitable that everyone's selfish. But it shouldn't bother us. Because the sky is blue and fish have gills. IF that pisses you off you're gonna be eternally pissed off. We have to accept that people are selfish, even when they are doing good things for us. It's something that I struggled with for a long time and still do. But I can't myself stay angry at something that is a constant truth.

[AlmostGodess]

This thread made me sad. I will never visit Pennsylvania.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

This thread made me sad. I will never visit Pennsylvania.

Me either. it sounds like it's too cold there.

I like the warmth of melbourne. People are so warm and friendly here...for the most part. You do get the occasional rude person of course, but they are everywhere. It's the most civilized city I've ever been to and I'm so grateful to be living here.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Me either. it sounds like it's too cold there.

I like the warmth of melbourne. People are so warm and friendly here...for the most part. You do get the occasional rude person of course, but they are everywhere. It's the most civilized city I've ever been to and I'm so grateful to be living here.

Ok, you convinced me! I am visiting Melbourne instead

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by RedRain

Cool stuff, Cochonette. Not everything you said resonates, but I appreciate your willingness to adapt.

It is beautiful, really. very beautiful.

Aw, I feel your warmth. ^^ I appreciate the challenge you have given me. I wish others would see it. *hugs*

yossarian, I don't think you are helping. RedRain is far from "harming" anyone in this thread. He might be pushing people away, but it's ridiculous to lecture him on doing so while you sit there and push him away. We have just seen that it is possible to meet him in a place where he does not feel the need to push away, and you have missed the memo. I see people in this thread doing a stronger pushing away than he is, anyway.

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

This thread made me sad. I will never visit Pennsylvania.

That's funny... I have heard the French are cold. But I would love to visit France! And I have scarcely left D.C. in the past several years but to visit Pennsylvania... the warmth I felt there more than once was so, so refreshing.

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

That's funny... I have heard the French are cold. But I would love to visit France! And I have scarcely left D.C. in the past several years but to visit Pennsylvania... the warmth I felt there more than once was so, so refreshing.

That's what I've heard too. But everything changed since I moved here You should visit when I'm still here

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

yossarian, I don't think you are helping. RedRain is far from "harming" anyone in this thread. He might be pushing people away, but it's ridiculous to lecture him on doing so while you sit there and push him away. We have just seen that it is possible to meet him in a place where he does not feel the need to push away, and you have missed the memo. I see people in this thread doing a stronger pushing away than he is, anyway.

I agree that he is not harming anyone. I also agree with Yoss on this one. If you search for something, consciously or unconsciously, you're going to find it. I tend to get overly involved emotionally in threads and it results in me getting a bit frustrated but I'll do my best to contain it.

I've been in a similar place in life where it felt like no one wanted anything to do with me. They were only interested in themselves. I know how it worked for me:

I developed an internal model of the world in which people were simply selfish and I was the selfless one, always on the losing side. So then I went out into the wide open world and projected that model everywhere I went. People reacted to it, furthering my conviction.

So I've been there. It does suck. The joy of it is that it's not external. It's internal, radiating from inside out. It's not very difficult to change if you start very small. Finding a single thing you like about a person (as James said) is a good start.

[James81]

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

This thread made me sad. I will never visit Pennsylvania.

Originally Posted by elucidate

Me either. it sounds like it's too cold there.

I like the warmth of melbourne. People are so warm and friendly here...for the most part. You do get the occasional rude person of course, but they are everywhere. It's the most civilized city I've ever been to and I'm so grateful to be living here.

Wait, hold the phone just a sec.

Just because RedRain is from Pennsylvania does NOT mean that Pennsylvania is too "cold". Yes, it's cold as balls weather-wise, but there are some wonderful people there. One of my best friends is from Penssylvania.

RedRain is not indicitive of the Penslyvania crew at all.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by James81

Wait, hold the phone just a sec.

Just because RedRain is from Pennsylvania does NOT mean that Pennsylvania is too "cold". Yes, it's cold as balls weather-wise, but there are some wonderful people there. One of my best friends is from Penssylvania.

RedRain is not indicitive of the Penslyvania crew at all.

If you say so. he didn't leave a very good impression of the place though. But then, I do my best not to listen to one persons opinion of a place when travelling, as it's usually not the same as another persons. Just because a person is being neg doesn't mean the reality is how they claim it to be.

Good reminder though, thanks.

I had no real plans of visiting pennsylvania anyway. It does sound like Transylvannia though, and I wouldn't mind going there.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

yossarian, I don't think you are helping. RedRain is far from "harming" anyone in this thread. He might be pushing people away, but it's ridiculous to lecture him on doing so while you sit there and push him away. We have just seen that it is possible to meet him in a place where he does not feel the need to push away, and you have missed the memo. I see people in this thread doing a stronger pushing away than he is, anyway

I think he's spot on actually. I didn't see Yoss pushing him away either, he was merely analysing his behavior, and telling it to him straight.

[James81]

Originally Posted by elucidate

If you say so. he didn't leave a very good impression of the place though. But then, I do my best not to listen to one persons opinion of a place when travelling, as it's usually not the same as another persons. Just because a person is being neg doesn't mean the reality is how they claim it to be.

Good reminder though, thanks.

I had no real plans of visiting pennsylvania anyway. It does sound like Transylvannia though, and I wouldn't mind going there.

If you ever find yourself in the states, go take this tour:

The Office Fan Tours, Scranton | OfficeTally

And then come back here and tell me if you think Pennsylvania peeps are cold.

I took that tour last year by myself and I made a pile of new friends and had a blast. It was wonderful and the people were awesome. Scranton is awesome. I'd live there if it wasn't so far away from my kids. (Plus, it's only about 2 hours away from New York City. )

[elucidate]

Well, I wouldn't mind visiting New York City for a week at least. Don't know if I could handle it for more than that though? I'll keep it in mind james.

[James81]

I went to NYC last year as well (first time I ever traipsed around the city...I had been to the Statue of Liberty before, though).

And I decided that in order to really *experience* NYC, I'd have to go for about 3 months. A weekend just didn't cut it.

I felt like I had touched the source after that weekend. The energy there is kinda amazing.

[elucidate]

I always say I'm only gonna go to a party for a half hour, and I end up being the last person to leave the next morning, so...

[Brutha]

I am not going to be fake and pretend I find a post useful when I don't.

I don't need to find a post useful to be able to acknowledge the fact that someone else wants to help you.
Only acknowledging that someone wants to help you when you find their input helpful is by definition cold because it purposefully ignores the warm intentions of the other person.

[ellie]

I'm just wondering if this question/thoughts about this topic is sincere or are you playing games redrain?

You admitted in elucidate's thread, that you were sort of messing with her.

I get the feeling you like to stir-up feelings, but not really sure you even really care of the outcome?

It's interesting, because I actually see you as "cold". From your post so far, I haven't seen much interaction or genuine advice to others. What would make one warm in your eyes?

Anyway, I am kind of tipsy, so I probably wont remember a thing I wrote tomorrow

[AlmostGodess]

Originally Posted by James81

Wait, hold the phone just a sec.

Just because RedRain is from Pennsylvania does NOT mean that Pennsylvania is too "cold". Yes, it's cold as balls weather-wise, but there are some wonderful people there. One of my best friends is from Penssylvania.

RedRain is not indicitive of the Penslyvania crew at all.

That was supposed to be a joke, Jamy

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I think he's spot on actually. I didn't see Yoss pushing him away either, he was merely analysing his behavior, and telling it to him straight.

I wasn't so much commenting on the content of what yossarian was saying as the conversational approach he was taking. RedRain obviously was not responding well to quite a few people talking to him this way, so why would it be helpful to keep talking to him that way? That seems pretty insensitive to me.

I mean, telling him he is abusing people? Harming them? In this thread? That's not cool and says a lot about where he's coming from.

Besides, I used to be like RedRain... I'd post threads and couldn't appreciate people's warm intentions... a lot of responses would really miss my point or just not be helpful, and I didn't understand why and would get frustrated and sometimes direct that frustration at the people posting. But it's not doing any better than the OP to just get frustrated back and start just complaining about him. It's not like he's attacking anyone, so responding by turning really cold on him in a thread about people being cold, and when his intentions are just as genuine as anyone else's, is not very insightful, coming from people who are advocating that cold returns cold. If we are going to tell him that in order to find warmth he must produce it, we could start by setting an example. And that's what happened whenever I was deeply moved to a life-changing point by someone - there was this person who wouldn't merely talk about warmth or feel it for themselves or share it in a very set way, like a solid like ice... it would be more like liquid warmth that would move around me and talk to me... incidentally, throwing something in a tub of water is an excellent method of thawing.

I am, at least, glad we're on a forum where we're mature and caring enough to even discuss this and have this problem be taken for what it is. There are very few places in the world where that would be possible amongst such a large number of people.

<3

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by RedRain

I was going to make the title less abrasive, but it was getting in the way of me being honest.

The majority of people I interact with seem very cold-hearted. I'm not just talking about people I interact with in person. I am talking about everyone.

Everyone has a face they put on when interacting with other people, but anyone I start getting to know seems less and less friendly.

There are only a few people in my life who it didn't seem like this was the case with.

I guess I'm trying to say I don't find there are many people who it seems genuinely care about others. To me, it seems most people are only concerned with other people insofar as those other people can help themselves.

I know this seems very judgmental and most people will think it isn't something I can know, but it is what I perceive to be the case and have for a very long time.

I'm not expecting anyone to be of much help, mostly because I find I can't trust what most people say because of the attitude I feel with it, but I guess I am posting this in case anyone has some insight I haven't thought of before.

I am willing to listen, but I may not respond.

I know that I personally put up very high walls guarding my heart. If you manage to get through the wall you will find I am very warm and caring, but I feel like I have to keep most people on the outside, for my own protection. I would like to be more loving, but it is pretty scary to be that open and vulnerable.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

I know that I personally put up very high walls guarding my heart. If you manage to get through the wall you will find I am very warm and caring, but I feel like I have to keep most people on the outside, for my own protection. I would like to be more loving, but it is pretty scary to be that open and vulnerable.

That kinda reminds me of a quote from Batman Begins:

"It's not who you are underneath, it's what you DO that defines you."

I tend to agree. That is, I tend to think that it doesn't matter so much what you feel underneath or what your intentions are, it's what you do and how you are perceived that matters most in an interaction with people.

Granted, their perception of you doesn't define you or who you are. But their perception of you is important if what you desire is to make a connection with them.

The thing about holding yourself back out of protection is that you really aren't protecting yourself. You're actually hurting yourself, but you're choosing to do so in a way that is more manageable. That is, it's easier to deal with a bit of loneliness every single day than it is to risk connection and have someone hurt you in a big way on ONE day. I used to do that...shut myself off to the world to protect myself. But when I did that, I found that I was hurting a little bit everyday. And for what? To protect myself from a possible hurt experience somewhere down the line.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by RedRain

Two people in this thread brought up elucidate, as if how I was with her was somehow good.

I wasn't really being warm with her. It wasn't real, I was just trying to figure something out. She knew it anyway.

I don't want to pretend like I was being nice, because I wasn't. It was hollow of me.

I was mean to her.

It's funny people praise how I am when I'm being mean. I guess it goes to my point that the inside often doesn't match the outside.

Well, there ya go, now I'm feeling kind of alienated from you.

Why were you mean to her? What did you want to figure out? What are you trying to do on this forum? Just curious -- sorry if this seems cold!

[Cochonette]

RedRain, you have reminded me of the most powerful way of being there is... you have reminded me of what constitutes the love that reaches in and connects people's heart-minds. Thank you SO much!

Someone else also told me that they cried reading this thread... in a good way.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Well, there ya go, now I'm feeling kind of alienated from you.

Why were you mean to her? What did you want to figure out? What are you trying to do on this forum? Just curious -- sorry if this seems cold!

It didn't sound like he was saying he wanted to be mean. It sounded to me like he was just observing a fact. I have been mean before, so I can relate... it's not a place you want to be in, it's just what happens when you a) get defensive/reactive/irritated and b) don't know how to find the warmth.

And it's frustrating when that happens... when you just want to observe a fact... you just want to say, "I am angry," or something, but people take it as something unjust and get defensive and what not. Yet isn't it something powerful in itself to be able to look within and just make that observation? When we learn meditation, we are told to let the emotions arise and just observe and let them be as they will be... not to attack them, try to suppress them, force them away, etc... yet when we want to do this out loud, others try to attack, suppress, force that away...

[Lauxa]

Originally Posted by James81

The thing about holding yourself back out of protection is that you really aren't protecting yourself. You're actually hurting yourself, but you're choosing to do so in a way that is more manageable. That is, it's easier to deal with a bit of loneliness every single day than it is to risk connection and have someone hurt you in a big way on ONE day. I used to do that...shut myself off to the world to protect myself. But when I did that, I found that I was hurting a little bit everyday. And for what? To protect myself from a possible hurt experience somewhere down the line.

Sort of. But when I care for other people, care deeply, then I take on myself some of their pain. If I'm not strong enough to take that on, then I shut myself away. I'm getting stronger though, I can take on more than I could a year ago.

And yes, you get to share joy as well, and that is wonderful.

[RedRain]

It's hard to not get defensive. When I get defensive, I am less honest.

Honestly, I appreciate your support Cochenette, but if you keep it up I think they will start attacking you, also.

I think people see different sides of me and it confuses them. There is a part of me that is mean and doesn't mind other people being mean. That side of me comes out when I feel like I can't protect myself. It also comes out sometimes just because I'm not perfect.

I believe it's all a game to some people, too. As James81 said earlier, he often thinks I'm trolling because he doesn't want to believe someone could be miserable like I am. I wouldn't exactly call myself miserable, but I am in some kind of isolation and, therefore, pain.

They don't want my pain to be real because it would be too hard to believe it.

That is a guess on my part.

In any regard, I am used to it. People hate weakness.

It would be easier to say I can handle it. It would be easier to default to the part of myself that doesn't care about anything. That is what I usually do.

[sorter]

Originally Posted by RedRain

Honestly, I appreciate your support Cochenette, but if you keep it up I think they will start attacking you, also.

Cochenette. You're wrong and need to change everything about yourself.

I love this thread but then, I live in NY, next door to PA.
.