What Could Cause Ex's 180 degree Change?

[Rezzy7]

I hope some of you will read my long story and can give me your thoughts!

My ex was a very loving and giving person for most of our 2year relationship. She and I were on a good path together of personal development. We both intended to know each other for the rest of our lives, even if not still romantically involved.

We'd made plans to live together, but then she began to get colder in the final 8 months or so, for no apparent reason. Eventually she had stopped communicating with me almost completely, without any discussion.

This was rather a shock because as recently as a couple months prior everything was very good with us.

My male logic brain needing some kind of understanding (not to mention my heart now in distress) I tried to open her to conversation, to get any kind of feedback but she resisted. I was gentle about it and at one point it seemed she was open to communicating, but flip-flopped right away. Her reasoning the whole time was irrational. Through it all I remained kind and civil, resisting ego inclinations to get her back for hurting me. Her response has been inconsiderate, heartless and in some ways even cruel. It's like she's a different person.

It's weird because I know I didn't do anything to her to cause such behavior. She insists she's not angry. When I asked if there's a reason she hates me she ignored the question completely. ???

Some people have suggested she met someone new, but from what I can tell she didn't. It seems like something happened in her life but I don't think it's that. Even if it was true it wouldn't explain her attitude.

I'm trying to get my head around it. How can a good and loving person, especially one on a PD path, become so mean toward the person they loved? What kind of thing would cause this?

[votoshka]

Well... I would suspect she's met someone else...even if there's no clear evidence of it.

Either that, or she's just tired of the relationship, and instead of being upfront about it she just stopped communicating?!

[Curtis2011]

Maybe she got over you?

[AlmostGodess]

Sometimes one simply stops loving the other person. One day, there is no more love in their heart for the person they are with. And while men tend to live well in a relationship without infatuation, women might find it more difficult.

She might have been confused about her feelings from the beginning on. She might have wanted a new start in her life. She might be a loner. But, no matter what happened to her, you could try to take of yourself now. It is about yourself that you should ask all the questions and for yourself find all the answers

[pyrogen]

People sometimes can maintain the most elaborate ruses... or act completely contrary to who they are... during the blissful early slap and tickle phase. Which came to an end in your case, leaving each other with the cold reality of who the other really was.

[180]

People are much more situational than dependent on personality.

You could take the nicest, kindest, warm hearted person in the world. And then throw them in a situation where they have to choose between saving their own life or a an old man. Guess what, the huge majority would choose to off the old man. There are many studies that show people are extremely situational and often choose the options that maximize "saftey" to themselves. It's not always logical or the best choice, (like getting angry at the wrong person) but the mind choose what it believes to the "safe" alternative, even if emotion clouds it.

I've had the sweetest girlfriend turn nasty and hurtful, all because, well guess what? She met someone who "understood" her better than I did. I also had another girlfriend flip because we had gotten used to each other.

Well for whatever reason, Men or women usually put on a show to look better then they are why the first start dating. As time passes they can no longer put up the show and things start to crumble. She could be at the crumble point where things are just not what she expected. Sometimes a girl will imagine that the relationships going to be wonderful and she acts nice. But as time passes, the love fades, the attraction goes, and she is left wondering if she made the right decesion. This happens to everyone, all guys. Even guys like Brad Pitt. And guys do this too all the time. They're fine with sex and all that but when it comes to commitment they bolt out the door.

[rei]

It sounds like she had second thoughts about furthering the depth of the commitment. Sometimes people express that passively.

Sometimes women who want out of a relationship start acting b*tchy to put it on the other person to end it. They don't even always realize that is what they are doing.

If she is a product of stereotypical conditioning for hetero women in the U.S., it's quite possible she has not been taught to be assertive about what she wants or needs, and if that's the case, she might have started acting out so you'd end things with her. Again, sometimes a woman can do this and not even be conscious that she is trying to sabotage the relationship so the partner will end it. Sometimes she's just acting out, and that is why, but there's not a conscious intention behind it.

I'd say a woman can begin acting this way whether she's "found someone else" or not. Sometimes people grow out of their initial feelings for a particular person, or get scared of making a commitment for fear someone they'd like better will show up. It isn't always about finding someone else before the current partnership is over.

Rezzy, it's understandable that you're trying to make sense of this. I hope you give yourself adequate time and energy for the grieving so you can be clearer when you next enter into a relationship, to connect with the person as they are.

[James81]

Couple things...

1. It's more effective to take responsibility for communication than it is to try and figure her out. That is, if you focus your energy on creating what you want to see rather than figuring out things, you'll go further.

2. You aren't taking the time to listen, and I mean really listen with the intent on understanding things from her perspective. And the reason I know that is because you think her behavior is irrational. From YOUR perspective it's irrational because you haven't understood her yet. From HER perspective, her behavior makes sense. In fact, nobody ever thinks their behavior is irrational. From their point of view, their perspective makes sense.

3. Asking her why she hates you s probably the worst possible question you could ask. It probably has nothing to do with you. But you can't know that until you listen from her perspective rather than your own.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by rei

If she is a product of stereotypical conditioning for hetero women in the U.S., it's quite possible she has not been taught to be assertive about what she wants or needs, and if that's the case, she might have started acting out so you'd end things with her. Again, sometimes a woman can do this and not even be conscious that she is trying to sabotage the relationship so the partner will end it. Sometimes she's just acting out, and that is why, but there's not a conscious intention behind it.

This.

Also, sometimes the person who is the "receptive" party in the relationship (as opposed to the activator) simply "goes along" with the activator for a while and may even seem as excited as the activator is, but in fact never indicated any of their own wishes or needs for the relationship. This is quite seductive for the activator as the activator is certain that they've found someone who's just as excited about the same things as they are!

However, eventually the "new lust" chemicals wear off, you're left with what you two *really* have beyond the initial sh!ts and giggles, and the one who is the feminine party (whichever of you that happens to be!) realizes their own needs aren't being met and that they *really* don't feel as strongly about those key, core issues as you do.

[rei]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

This.

Also, sometimes the person who is the "receptive" party in the relationship (as opposed to the activator) simply "goes along" with the activator for a while and may even seem as excited as the activator is, but in fact never indicated any of their own wishes or needs for the relationship. This is quite seductive for the activator as the activator is certain that they've found someone who's just as excited about the same things as they are!

Haha this happened a little on my date with boy scout except it was coming from his end. I might be topping from the bottom Don't think I am, so maybe this sort of thing can be experienced by activator or receptor, and would instead just be a potential side effect of attraction.

(Aside. I wonder if the activator/receptor stuff is influenced by intro/extroversion.)

It was pretty easy for me to see when the things he agreed to thinking or feeling were probably a stretch, so I won't be surprised later when he's out of that phase. Lucky for me I'm attracted to his character more than the little stuff of personality that is usually the subject of this sort of stretching and twisting of your interests.

I've come to realize there is a difference between wanting so much to prove you're like a potential partner that you *pretend* to be into things the way they're into things, and being so swept up in your enjoyment of the person that you genuinely feel like you have some way of fitting whatever they talk about.

The former is from a place of need, lack and desperation. The latter is from a place of attraction. I've experienced being on the receiving end of both. And that experience has a very different flavor depending on which of these it's stemming from.

Originally Posted by pyrogen

However, eventually the "new lust" chemicals wear off, you're left with what you two *really* have beyond the initial sh!ts and giggles, and the one who is the feminine party (whichever of you that happens to be!) realizes their own needs aren't being met and that they *really* don't feel as strongly about those key, core issues as you do.

Yes, yes. I've seen this happen a lot. Infatuation does crazy things.

[Rezzy7]

Thanks for all the replies.

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

Maybe she got over you?

Yeah, really.

Originally Posted by AlmostGodess

Sometimes one simply stops loving the other person. One day, there is no more love in their heart for the person they are with.

I understand this is true for people. For me it is difficult because if I really, really love someone I don't think I know of a way to shut it off. It's like permanent. Of course, it the person turns extremely awful, maybe not.

She might have been confused about her feelings from the beginning on. She might have wanted a new start in her life. She might be a loner. But, no matter what happened to her, you could try to take of yourself now. It is about yourself that you should ask all the questions and for yourself find all the answers

This all applies. I do regularly ask questions of myself, though in this I am not sure what questions I would add specifically.

Originally Posted by pyrogen

People sometimes can maintain the most elaborate ruses... or act completely contrary to who they are... during the blissful early slap and tickle phase. Which came to an end in your case, leaving each other with the cold reality of who the other really was.

I watched as she changed for the better, as we learned together she became less judgmental of people, and nicer overall. I would not take her for someone who would pretend to be anything she wasn't. But then, that's what those people would want you to say!

Originally Posted by rei

It sounds like she had second thoughts about furthering the depth of the commitment. Sometimes people express that passively.

Sometimes women who want out of a relationship start acting b*tchy to put it on the other person to end it. They don't even always realize that is what they are doing.

...she might have started acting out so you'd end things with her. Again, sometimes a woman can do this and not even be conscious that she is trying to sabotage the relationship so the partner will end it. Sometimes she's just acting out, and that is why, but there's not a conscious intention behind it.

I have suspected she might be doing this for some time. At the end it seemed beyond bitchy, and when I say loveless, I don't just mean she had no love for me. It seemed like I was talking to a person who has no love for people, like no feelings.

Sometimes people grow out of their initial feelings for a particular person, or get scared of making a commitment for fear someone they'd like better will show up.

I felt this to be a possibility. We had acknowledged we weren't perfect for each other, but still had lots of potential. I think her fear became stronger than what the potential she saw between us. Like she thought it was too much of a challenge.

Rezzy, it's understandable that you're trying to make sense of this. I hope you give yourself adequate time and energy for the grieving so you can be clearer when you next enter into a relationship, to connect with the person as they are.

Well, the last time this happened it was like 7-8 years. That concerns me but I hope not to take that long now.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Well... I would suspect she's met someone else...even if there's no clear evidence of it.

Possibly. I think her life and work have stressed her so much, and she's tired all the time, so it would be unlikely she'd try to fit another relationship into the scenario. But then, that's what those kinds of people would want you to think!

Originally Posted by 180

There are many studies that show people are extremely situational and often choose the options that maximize "saftey" to themselves. It's not always logical or the best choice, (like getting angry at the wrong person) but the mind choose what it believes to the "safe" alternative, even if emotion clouds it.

I've had the sweetest girlfriend turn nasty and hurtful, all because, well guess what? She met someone who "understood" her better than I did. I also had another girlfriend flip because we had gotten used to each other.

I had detected with things going in her life apart from me it would cause her to choose self-safety over otherwise sensible options. Meaning, what she thinks is the more safe choice. Maintaining things with me requires effort and time and I think she ended up associating stress with me. I was willing to work it through, she was not, apparently. So I was the fall guy for the other, much bigger problems in her life.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by rei

I'd say a woman can begin acting this way whether she's "found someone else" or not. Sometimes people grow out of their initial feelings for a particular person, or get scared of making a commitment for fear someone they'd like better will show up. It isn't always about finding someone else before the current partnership is over.

Actually yes, this!! Even if she hasn't found someone else, if she's not content in the relationship with you she may WANT to be with someone else (no one in particular, necessarily) but she can't go and find someone while in a relationship. She doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so she acts poorly towards you so that you get rid of her, then she's free to find someone else cause she's been "dumped".

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by James81

Couple things...

1. It's more effective to take responsibility for communication than it is to try and figure her out. That is, if you focus your energy on creating what you want to see rather than figuring out things, you'll go further.

Thanks for your comments. Sounds like you just said 2 different things. By making every effort to communicate with her I thought I was taking that responsibility you mention. Within those attempts I have expressed what I would like to see/experience with her.

2. You aren't taking the time to listen, and I mean really listen with the intent on understanding things from her perspective.

She hasn't given me much to listen to. And I think her behavior is irrational from any sane person's perspective, not just mine. Acting bitchy so a guy will dump you, for example, is rather warped even if it is popular. Being rude rather than being a grown up about actual intentions is not acceptable. Besides, I am listening from her perspective. That's why some of the ideas that have been posted so far are possibilities I have considered.

3. Asking her why she hates you s probably the worst possible question you could ask. It probably has nothing to do with you. But you can't know that until you listen from her perspective rather than your own.

I asked "Do you hate me?" I don't care if that's the worst I could ask her, I need to know. If she does, then I wouldn't need to go any further. If she doesn't then she should not treat me as if she does.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by votoshka

She doesn't want to be the "bad guy" so she acts poorly towards you so that you get rid of her, then she's free to find someone else cause she's been "dumped".

In my book, someone who acts poorly in this way, being inauthentic, IS the bad guy anyway.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

In my book, someone who acts poorly in this way, being inauthentic, IS the bad guy anyway.

Aha but that's just it. It isn't always being inauthentic. If the woman is authentically passive, then acting out to get the partner to take action IS acting authentically.

Like, sure, it can look really manipulative. But there isn't necessarily an intention to manipulate. If a woman is trained to believe she isn't allowed to assert herself, and if she's accepted that training, then she's limited in how she can express those wants/needs. Communicating them the best she can with the training she has, might look on the outside like manipulation, but it is an attempt to express her wants and needs. It isn't a conscious act of sabotage in every case, and if a woman sees herself as squarely in the mainstream for passive conditioning, then this sort of behavior IS authentic.

Like I said, women who do this aren't even always conscious of it, and there's not always malicious intent behind it. It is the way passive women are trained to communicate themselves.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

I'm trying to get my head around it. How can a good and loving person, especially one on a PD path, become so mean toward the person they loved? What kind of thing would cause this?

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

In my book, someone who acts poorly in this way, being inauthentic, IS the bad guy anyway.

Yup, I can understand how it would be very hard to get your head around that: this good and loving person IS the bad guy. It just doesn't make any sense; of course it would leave you feeling baffled! It's like saying: "Good equals Bad." or I think more the way you're looking at it "Good CAUSES Bad," because she once was so Good, and she's Bad now and it's her fault. Crazy-making!

It's just really hard, if not impossible, to simultaneously judge someone and understand her. Imagine if I said, "You know, Rezzy, you are a real assh*le, and I'd really love to know what makes you tick." You're probably not going to feel very moved or inspired to help me understand your inner workings, are you? More likely you'll be like: "Back the truck up, Angela, go drown in a tub!"

The thing is, you don't have to say out loud to her that you're judging her; judgement is something that most people are very sensitive about and attuned to -- we can feel when someone has us as the Bad Guy.

So, if you'd love to really get learnings from this situation that will help you get the results you want going forward, either with this woman, being her friend, or moving into new relationships without packing this situation up as baggage to take with you, I invite you to put aside your judgement, at least temporarily. Look at her from some different perspectives (you could try a bird's eye view, or through they eyes of her mother or someone else who adores her, and then finally look through her eyes: how is she seeing this? How have you been occurring for her?) and learn what there is to learn from each perspective, minus her being to blame or being the Bad Guy.

I understand that this is no small thing I'm suggesting here: Judgement occurs like Reality; it feels like a matter of survival. Like: a valuable resource that protects and preserves you and has you making choices that work well in your life. And consider that you have far more sophisticated resources available to you that allow you to intelligently evaluate situations and get the learnings that will protect you, without having to see someone as wrong or bad, being able to feel compassion, love, and forgiveness, which might feel a bit better to you, wouldn't you say? Being able to look back at this relationship and seeing: "Wow! I'm so glad I knew her, what a lovely woman, she really helped me to become the person I am now, and be the kind of loving, compassionate, supportive mate that I am now, now that I am in my ideal relationship." Won't that be something!

When you're done, if you want, you can have your judgement back; but for your learning classroom of deep understanding, let it go for a bit. Personally, I recommend doing what it takes so that have other resources available and NOT use judgement to protect you, just because it tends to weigh you down in future relationships -- "baggage." But there's no rule that says you can't judge and carry your judgements with you throughout your life. You get to choose!

Best wishes with this!

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by rei

Aha but that's just it. It isn't always being inauthentic. If the woman is authentically passive, then acting out to get the partner to take action IS acting authentically.

Like, sure, it can look really manipulative. But there isn't necessarily an intention to manipulate.

Thanks for the reply. I like how you said, "aha"! It's cute, not to pass judgment or anything. I get what you're saying then. And I think this might be the case with this person, it's not intentional. I think she had a lot of behaviors that she didn't fully realize.

Originally Posted by Angela

It's just really hard, if not impossible, to simultaneously judge someone and understand her. Imagine if I said, "You know, Rezzy, you are a real assh*le, and I'd really love to know what makes you tick." You're probably not going to feel very moved or inspired to help me understand your inner workings, are you? More likely you'll be like: "Back the truck up, Angela, go drown in a tub!"

Thanks for your comments. I think I see what you're saying then.

So, if you'd love to really get learnings from this situation that will help you get the results you want going forward, either with this woman, being her friend, or moving into new relationships without packing this situation up as baggage to take with you, I invite you to put aside your judgement, at least temporarily. Look at her from some different perspectives (you could try a bird's eye view, or through they eyes of her mother or someone else who adores her, and then finally look through her eyes: how is she seeing this? How have you been occurring for her?) and learn what there is to learn from each perspective, minus her being to blame or being the Bad Guy.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is not so hard. I do love her and have held great compassion for her the whole time. She saw "us" as extra stress, and not knowing what else to do her reaction was to eliminate the relationship, although I suppose that might not have been her direct, conscious intention. Like she did not intend to hurt me, or even realize that would be the outcome.

Personally, I recommend doing what it takes so that have other resources available and NOT use judgement to protect you, just because it tends to weigh you down in future relationships -- "baggage."

Can you elaborate about the other resources? I might be misreading.

I meant to ask James81 what you'd suggest instead.

[votoshka]

Hmm well look at it this way... A woman feels that her relationship isn't working and isn't happy, she doesn't WANT to hurt the guy but she wants to get out... how does she do it? She thinks (well this may be subconscious thought rather than conscious) something along the lines of "Well if I'm not very engaged in our relationship, and I don't talk to him, then he'll get tired of me and won't want me anymore and he'll break up with me"... that way she can avoid YOU pain because YOU'RE getting tired of her. Does that make sense?

Now, to you there IS pain because she's changed dramatically towards you, but maybe she can't see it that way?? There was a time in my life where I honestly thought in that exact sort of way. I thought the guy would just get tired of me and would find someone else and wouldn't even really care because I'm not such a great loss! There's sometimes no deliberate intent to harm because this course of action SEEMS kinder than outright telling a guy that you're no longer interested.

[persephonevii]

My gut instinct tells me to tell you that she's not in love and that she can't tell you because she feels guilty about it. She doesn't hate but she doesn't love you either, she just doesn't care anymore.

I'd say ask her point-blank, "Do you love me anymore?". You've been gentle about it, I think it's time to use another something a bit more raw.

If you still love her, the answer could be very heart-breaking and even if you think you can prepare for that sort of blow, you can't really. It still hurts, even if you knew it was coming.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Hmm well look at it this way... A woman feels that her relationship isn't working and isn't happy, she doesn't WANT to hurt the guy but she wants to get out... how does she do it? She thinks (well this may be subconscious thought rather than conscious) something along the lines of "Well if I'm not very engaged in our relationship, and I don't talk to him, then he'll get tired of me and won't want me anymore and he'll break up with me"... that way she can avoid YOU pain because YOU'RE getting tired of her. Does that make sense?

There's sometimes no deliberate intent to harm because this course of action SEEMS kinder than outright telling a guy that you're no longer interested.

Thanks for your reply. I understand this part. She may have done this, starting by gradually acting more rude. Trouble is I was trying to be kind and forgiving and maybe that made it harder for her to achieve her secret goal. So do all women do this? I think it makes it worse than just coming out and saying it. Probably because it drags it out. I've been in 2 relationships so far where this happened, and I prefer not to have a repeat.

Originally Posted by persephonevii

My gut instinct tells me to tell you that she's not in love and that she can't tell you because she feels guilty about it. She doesn't hate but she doesn't love you either, she just doesn't care anymore.

Thanks for your response. This possibility came to mind quite a while ago. And at this point I couldn't ask her anything since she refuses to speak to me. The last time we communicated she would only respond by text messages. So even without asking I think I already had my answer if she loved me. And yeah, there's no way to prepare for it and it is hard. We still had so many potential adventures together. I wanted to at least remain on good terms.

[rei]

No, all women are not like that. Sometimes it is a man who takes that route of sabotage or annoying the partner so they are the one to end it.

If you have experienced this with two women you might want to look at a couple things. Such as, are you more attracted to the type of personality that can come with the potential for this behavior. Do you like suinmissive women? Because submissive women can be passive and this can be the downside of passivity sometimes.

If you would prefer someone who straight up ends it if they are not happy then you might seek out a bold, courageous woman next time. Someone who is hafelt ever meek and who rarely or never apologizes for being who she is, body language included. Someone who holds eye contact easily and stands straight with her head parallel to the ground by default.

If you dig the giggly woman who looks down a good but and who defers to your decisions, then just be prepared for the possibility that she would take this route if she wanted out. I am not saying the two always go together but they can.

Thanks for the comment about the aha

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

Thanks for your reply. I understand this part. She may have done this, starting by gradually acting more rude. Trouble is I was trying to be kind and forgiving and maybe that made it harder for her to achieve her secret goal. So do all women do this? I think it makes it worse than just coming out and saying it. Probably because it drags it out. I've been in 2 relationships so far where this happened, and I prefer not to have a repeat.

Yes, I think you did make it a lot harder by being kind and forgiving! I think she much would have preferred it if you'd lost it and become angry, because then ending the relationship would have been quicker and simpler!

I think in future if you find yourself in such a situation, you need to also accept your own behavior. No, you didn't do anything WRONG but in being kind and forgiving you didn't allow the relationship to die a natural death. Had you flat out said, "Right, do you want to be with me or not, or is this it?" things may have come to a head sooner.

And Rei is also right, if you find yourself in relationships with women who are a bit passive and submissive, you may find yourself in this sort of scenario again. However, hopefully if that DOES happen, you can recognize it for what it is!

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by rei

No, all women are not like that. Sometimes it is a man who takes that route of sabotage or annoying the partner so they are the one to end it.

Sure, I didn't mean to imply only women do that. I've heard of men also employing this trick.

If you have experienced this with two women you might want to look at a couple things. Such as, are you more attracted to the type of personality that can come with the potential for this behavior. Do you like suinmissive women? Because submissive women can be passive and this can be the downside of passivity sometimes.

I misspoke earlier. My prior relationship I was referring to when I said I've experience this twice ended differently. I was thinking of her behavior after it ended; we had agreed to remain friends but she became rude.

My more recent partner was not submissive, except occasionally in play, but she had been through some abuse. I think she had a lot of conflicts going on and it had caused us issues earlier. Also, I didn't seek out this type of person. She approached me and initiated. I was originally uninterested but then she began doing very loving and supportive things that I would never expect a selfish person to do. I believe she was genuine. I had not found many opportunities for love at the time, so I was not about to say no.

Originally Posted by votoshka

I think she much would have preferred it if you'd lost it and become angry, because then ending the relationship would have been quicker and simpler!

Maybe for her it would have been.

No, you didn't do anything WRONG but in being kind and forgiving you didn't allow the relationship to die a natural death. Had you flat out said, "Right, do you want to be with me or not, or is this it?" things may have come to a head sooner.

When weird things started I don't think she was employing this sophomoric technique; I think she was confused about what she wanted. Because subsequently she wanted to move in with me. She was hot then cold, difficult, then wonderful and I took that to be remnants of prior abuse. I was more patient than usual with her because of it. Things were going normal and then suddenly she stopped communicating consistently, then became rude, then cut me off completely.

I understand the manipulation technique that she may have been trying in the end. What I don't understand is how she could become so rude after it was already clear the relationship was over.

[Rezzy7]

There have been some good insights mentioned that give some explanations about this person's behavior. Even then, my brain has a hard time with digesting it, or allowing, or accepting...something is just not right about it and my mind wants to "do" something about it. It's hard to rest. It doesn't make sense to me that some people, that this person I was with can turn on and off emotions like this. I surely can't.Years of practice maybe?

[SeaRod]

Women Women Women, welcome to the land of Women

I've spent countless time meditating on understanding women and hopefully I can shed some light and comfort into your situation

First lets start with a quote
"A man marries a woman expecting her not to change, and she does. A woman marries a man hoping to change him and he doesn't!"

Is that a universal law? Nope, but there's truth there.

Since you love Logic, here it is
1. Every action has a reason. Even if the action is unconscious, it was ignited by a reason.
2. Man and Woman think the same, we just act differently (consciously or unconsciously)
3. Your problem is thinking YOU ignited her behavior. Stop being so selfish! As a man, we tend to view problems like car problems. Well there is something wrong with the car, thus lets take it to the mechanic and fix it. The mechanic finds something wrong with it, then fixes it and the car is back running. Well woman (humans) are more complex than a car. Although just like a car, some problems are the drivers fault and most other problems *just* happen. Unlike a car, the problems that *just* happen can only be "fixed" by the individual (significant other), not someone else (You).
4. Don't try to "fix" something you can't "fix". You can only "fix"/improve yourself, that's all.
5. James is right, almost all behavior someone else does makes sense only IF you understand their situation fully. Like Angela mentioned, first seek to understand her; it is quite lazy and immature to blame her "I can't believe YOU did this to me!!! Why did you betray me! That's your inner wounded child talking.
6. There's a reason why she is/was acting loveless and cold. When one becomes emotionally distant something triggered that and it is mostly likely pain. Pain and suffering trigger emotional distance/coldness. On the good news, this pain almost always is emotional baggage (usually stemming from parents). Thus, it is true when a woman says "it is not about you, it is about me"!
7. People have different ways of coping with pain. Digging deeper, this is not even a woman and man difference, it is a mature and immature difference. A mature person has a problem then addresses the issue with the other and does his best to work towards a solution. An immature person just hides and runs!
8. Most people are immature because they don’t know who they are thus, they just hide and run! They never try to understand their pain. Although, the ones who know who they are more, understand themselves more and consequently understand people more.
9. If you ask her what is wrong, she most like does not know what is wrong. All she is experiencing is pain thus, (if unconscious) pain ignites her coping mechanism—coldness/emotional distance
10. Rei is right—the way she is performing through her programming is authentic. But in the end, it is not Good/Authentic or Bad/inauthentic, it is just Unconscious. Like Eckhart Tolle said: The Ego is not Good or Bad, it is just unconscious.
11. “When you're done, if you want, you can have your judgement back; but for your learning classroom of deep understanding, let it go for a bit. Personally, I recommend doing what it takes so that have other resources available and NOT use judgement to protect you, just because it tends to weigh you down in future relationships -- "baggage." But there's no rule that says you can't judge and carry your judgements with you throughout your life. You get to choose!” Great advice from Angela

Hmm well look at it this way... A woman feels that her relationship isn't working and isn't happy, she doesn't WANT to hurt the guy but she wants to get out... how does she do it? She thinks (well this may be subconscious thought rather than conscious) something along the lines of "Well if I'm not very engaged in our relationship, and I don't talk to him, then he'll get tired of me and won't want me anymore and he'll break up with me"... that way she can avoid YOU pain because YOU'RE getting tired of her.

That makes sense but then again people are not that selfless. She doesn’t want to further hurt herself. She’s not really looking after the guy. If she can avoid Him pain, that necessary means that she is avoiding herself pain. Although in reality, you can’t hide from pain forever! Haha, just more baggage and more time to master your coping skills!

It doesn't make sense to me that some people, that this person I was with can turn on and off emotions like this. I surely can't.Years of practice maybe?

She’s just unconscious, like most people, that’s all. Also, years of learning how to master her “coping” defense skills.

Lesson in all of this can be summed up by Socrates: Know Thyself. The more you know yourself, the more you see this crap and just laugh! Most people are just really running on their programming.

[Rezzy7]

Originally Posted by SeaRod

Since you love Logic, here it is

Thanks for your reply. I don't really love logic.

3. Your problem is thinking YOU ignited her behavior.

I just want to know how this specific person can do such a turnaround, I don't care if it was ignited by me, and haven't thought that it was. Good point about men wanting to fix things, btw. I'm not trying to fix her, but I do need to make some type of sense of what happened or my brain will fry itself in a death loop. Some of the ideas presented here have helped, but w/out feedback from her I'll never know the true answer.

it is quite lazy and immature to blame her.

I did everything I could to get her perspective, so I don't know about lazy. I don't blame her for doing the best she knows, but I'm not convinced this was her highest truth. And you're right she might not know how to answer, anyway.

If unconscious behavior leads to undesirable outcomes, is that good or bad?

Originally Posted by SeaRod

Great advice from Angela

Yeah, I still don't know what she meant by that, either.

That makes sense but then again people are not that selfless. She doesn’t want to further hurt herself. She’s not really looking after the guy. If she can avoid Him pain, that necessary means that she is avoiding herself pain.

This part makes sense.

The more you know yourself, the more you see this crap and just laugh!

I don't know that I can imagine myself ever laughing when something like this happens. I know my self fairly well and it's not helping me in this.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

Yeah, I still don't know what she meant by that, either.

It means that as long as you use the perspective that she is wrong or she did something wrong, the only learnings you have available to you are ways of surviving her wrongness. Wrapping your head around how she could do this wrong thing to you -- that is, surviving what happened "to" you -- is a great way to pack your baggage for your next relationship, in which that woman will be wrong and you'll have to survive that, too, and so on.

And an excellent alternative perspective, one that makes possibility available to you, is to ask yourself a different sort of question than "How or why did she make such a wrong/undesirable turnaround?" -- that gets you into that downward spiral death loop pattern of thinking -- might be:

How am I at cause in this matter? What choices did I make, both consciously and unconsciously, that had this situation arise in my life? What is it I need to learn about myself that will allow me to easily and effortlessly release these thoughts and emotions?

In other words, move from your focus on how she victimized you to a perspective of being responsible and at cause.

Again, there's no rule that says you have to. You can carry your baggage around forever, if you want to. Most people do! It really takes something to shift into a perspective of being at cause, and not everyone's willing to do it.

[Rezzy7]

Woa! you have big letters!

Originally Posted by Angela

It means that as long as you use the perspective that she is wrong or she did something wrong, the only learnings you have available to you are ways of surviving her wrongness.

Your point is more clear now, thank you for the reply. I didn't think of it purely as something wrong she did to me, just something I can't fathom coming from who she seems/seemed to be to me.

How am I at cause in this matter? What choices did I make, both consciously and unconsciously, that had this situation arise in my life? What is it I need to learn about myself that will allow me to easily and effortlessly release these thoughts and emotions?

In other words, move from your focus on how she victimized you to a perspective of being responsible and at cause.

I understand this, and the reason I'm asking about her is that I could not think of any way I am the cause. The first thought that came to mind was "How was I the cause of this...what did I do?" and the tendency to self-blame. But I also acknowledge it's not necessarily about me. I don't know of any choices I made consciously that resulted in this situation, and subconsciously I have no idea. (I continue to try to connect with and uncover, realize my subconscious, but that is an area I still am learning).

I know I did my best to AVOID old behaviors, to be as selfless and loving as possible, and to be sensitive to her feelings and needs and wellness in every choice I made. So I don't know how any of that could lead to this.

I'm also confused. On one hand some people have suggested I take responsibility as the cause of this. On the other, that it is not about me, it's about her. Both make sense in certain ways, which doesn't provide clarity.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rezzy7

Woa! you have big letters!

Guys are always saying that to me.

...the tendency to self-blame. ...I continue to try to connect with and uncover, realize my subconscious, but that is an area I still am learning).

Yeah, you know, I think, that I'm not talking about self-blame any more than I'm talking about blaming her.

The self-inquiry of personal responsibility can start anywhere .... you can look at the choices that you made inside the relationship, or the choices that had you get into the relationship in the first place, or the choices pertaining to women when you were very young, or even go as far back as your kidhood, back when you started making decisions about yourself. It's all a rich source of insight. In TIME Techniques, we even go back and look at birth and pre-birth learnings -- and it's ALL all about now: enriching the choices you have right now and stepping into the future you'd like to create now. I acknowledge you for looking! I know it can be a challenge, and you deserve the rewards of that challenge.

I'm also confused. On one hand some people have suggested I take responsibility as the cause of this. On the other, that it is not about me, it's about her. Both make sense in certain ways, which doesn't provide clarity.

Yes, both make sense. And the thing I've noticed is not that 100% responsibility and being at cause are THE TRUTH, but that it's a perspective that makes all the difference in getting the results you want in living a life you're totally in love with. That's why I'm always yammering away about it. It's all about you.

And of course, you getting what you want is all about me getting what I want.