My Relationship Quandry

[idave]

OK, I could use some advice.

I've been married for over 25 years, and have been with my wife for almost 30 years. I have to say we were never passionately in love with each other. I really hadn't gotten over an old relationship, brief though it was, and my wife was afraid that I'd leave her for someone else. And carried that with her for the past 30 years.

Over time, the love we did have for each other sort of dissolved. Frankly, I was sort of dead weight - not fully engaging in helping run the house/family. Apparently like a lot of husbands.

As the years went by, sex was infrequent and my wife obviously didn't enjoy it much. She thought for the past five years I wanted to leave the marriage, I thought the past two (when the kids left home) that she might want to leave me.

Unfortunately, we didn't know how to communicate our feelings to each other, and a sort of low-grade anger simmered in of us.

Last October, the young woman I'd loved so long ago, and frankly still loved (I've had dreams about her over the years, thought about her over the years, but never would have contacted her), contacted me with an email (a textless, messageless email that she swears she sent accidentally or unconsciously). Confused, I sent an email back, saying I had a wonderful wife and two great kids, and I also said a lot - I said a lot about how much I'd loved my old flame long ago. I just didn't say "I still love you."

The other person wrote back - not realizing she'd emailed me first - and said she'd loved me long ago - that she had a great kid and had been married for 25 years.

We kept up the emails and we both began to admit that we weren't happy in our marriages. And we began to realize how much we loved each other. My old flame had dreamed about me, thought about me over the years, as I had about her. We saw each other a few times - 30 years after last seeing each other - and it was wonderful, beyond my expectations. And hers.

A couple of months ago, my wife found an email from my old flame. It completely changed her. She is - now - the kind of spouse I think most people want to have - someone very loving, no longer angry with me.

And I had lost all my anger for my wife, too, well before she found that email.

If I were my wife, I'd have kicked me out. But my wife says she loves me, that we have this long relationship and that she doesn't want to be alone.

The truth, though, is I never loved my wife with the passion I think she deseved to have (whether or not she could return it). I think the loss of intimacy we felt for each other happened because I couldn't fully commit to my wife.

And the truth is that in between the time my old flame contacted me and the time my wife discovered that email which changed her, I realized how deeply I still love my old flame, and that's what has changed me.

I want to be with my old flame. But once I told my old flame my wife had changed, once my old flame realized I am in conflict, she decided it was time to stop communicating with me - at least as long as I'm with my wife.

So it seems to be coming down to a sort of choice.

Do I want to be with the woman I've always wanted to be with, the one I truly love? The woman - literally - of my dreams? It's all a ridiculous fantasy, anyway. I know it but I can't help my feelings. I can't imagine it's really going to work for us. And if it doesn't, I've going to be in a world of hurt. Fantasy or not, I can never be with the one I truly love if I don't believe it, and act to achieve being with her.

I might always regret, though, leaving my wife and so radically changing the comfortable world I'm in, the comfortable world I've let my wife create for me.

So I also have the feeling that since I have a great marriage, since my wife is now the person I think she wants to be and that I wanted her to be, that I should stay with my wife, who is such a good person. The reason I should stay with her, though, is not because I love her deeply (I do love her), but because I don't want to hurt her so deeply.

To stay with her, I'm going to have to push the regret way I'll always feel because I didn't try to be with the person I really love.

I've felt nauseous for the past couple of months. I want the courage to tell my wife I need to try to finish unfinished business with my old flame, that I need to leave home for at least a little while, that I might not come back.

Why can't I do that?

[JHL]

Originally Posted by idave

I want the courage to tell my wife I need to try to finish unfinished business with my old flame, that I need to leave home for at least a little while, that I might not come back.

Why can't I do that?

Hi Dave, you must be feeling enormously conflicted by the choices in front of you. You love your wife, but not with the passion or intensity you feel she deserves. She in turn loves you - and has become particularly more expressive of that love after discovering that email. You also thought that she didnt kick you out because she doesnt want to be alone.

You know it would cause her immense pain if she lost you, and that in turn would cause you enormous pain. However, you realise that you dont feel the intensity of passion for her, that you do for your old flame.

So your conundrum is - do you remain with your wife, who you say is a wonderful person and has created a comfortable life for you - or do you risk that and leave her for an old flame for whom your fierce feelings have recently been stirred up again.

Obviously this is a significant conflict of feelings, and unless you resolve this, you may very well live with regret whichever way you choose.

I think you owe it to yourself and all parties involved to explore this in a very rational manner. I understand that your feelings towards this old flame are intense, but this in no way implies that you should be with her. I think just about everybody has experienced intense attractions to other people, who turned out to be horribly wrong for them. So I would ask you - besides your feelings for this person - what makes you think that she is really the one for you? Are you certain that you are not reliving some youthful infatuation and are putting her up on a pedestal and creating an unrealistically high estimation of her?

To answer your question more specifically, I dont think you can up and leave your wife "for at least a little while" or forever, depending on what happened with this old flame. I say that because I think she deserves better than that - and I think you know that too, which is perhaps partly what is delaying you.

Dave, you deserve happiness and you deserve that intense passion in your life. I would just suggest you spend some time reflecting on the reality that underpins these feelings you have for your old flame. What real substance is there to them? Are you in love with her? Or with a memory?

[idave]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

>I would just suggest you spend some time reflecting on the reality that underpins these feelings you have for your old flame. What real substance is there to them? Are you in love with her? Or with a memory?<

I think it's both. That's my reality. I've spent a few days with my old flame, and they were wonderful.

Will it work out with her, will I live happily ever after with her, get to live with her - which is what I think I want?

I don't know. But if can't happen if I don't want it to happen, don't work on making that my reality.

There is, for me, a truth about my wife. I love her, because she's the mother of our kids, because she's supported me for so long in so many ways. But I don't love her with passion.

And her truth is that she doesn't want to be with me if I can't love her as much as she loves me. And she doesn't believe I love her enough. Which is true. I don't have a deep love for her.

The reality, for me, is that I've always loved, as a memory, as a fantasy, another person. And that person, as if by magic, entered my life. And we met and I love her still, and she says she loves me.

So I am never, every going to be able, even if I stay with my wife, love her completely, not while my old flame is alive, and even if she no longer existed, I would still have strong feelings for her.

I can't manufacture those same feelings for my wife, as I have for my old flame. And as my wife said last night, as we talked about this, "Maybe you never really loved me." it's true, I never did, not the way she apparently loves me. I never truly, deeply loved her.

I love my wife, I have tremendous affection for her, but I can never love her the way she loves me - and she has said that if I can't do that, then we shouldn't be together.

Of course, she keeps hoping I will love her the way she wants to be loved. That I'll perform "exercises" in the handbook our couples counselor gave us. I can't do them, because they offer ways to reconnect with past feelings for a spouse. And I never had them.

[JHL]

I hear you Dave, I see where you're coming from. I just re-read your first post where you say how you had never gotten over your romance with your old flame. From what you wrote, it seems that your wife always sensed this and always lived with the fear that your heart was really with someone else, and for that reason she was never able to feel entirely secure with the relationship.

She dearly wants you to love her in the way you love this other person. But you cant, and you never have. Even though she has given so much to you, your children and your relationship - the passion just isnt there. She doesnt want you to be with her if you dont feel for her, the way she feels for you. And from what you say, it isnt likely you ever will.

One part of me wants to say that neither you nor your wife should settle for just ok. You only live once, and you should live that life to the fullest. That both of you should go your own way and take the chance of pursuing that love and passion that everyone deserves.

On the other hand there is one reservation I have about your old flame. Well not so much a reservation as a grey area. That is, you are for all intents and purposes basing your feelings on the person you used to know. That person you had a romance with so long ago. But why did it end then? For good reason? What leads you to believe it would work this time around? Perhaps you have both grown and matured and so have the tools now to resolve what you both could not back then. But is she the same person? Are you? These are just things to consider.

Another way of considering this is - if the worst came to pass - you left your wife of 25 years, and made a go of it with your old flame and it just didnt work out. Would you regret having left your wife? Or do you think it was a seperation that needed to happen anyway, and your old flame was just the catalyst that impressed upon you that your marriage lacked the passion you desire, and want?

[earlybird]

I may be a young dreamer here, but I am firstly, quite frankly amazed you settled, for want of a better phrase, for second best for so long. Well done. You seem like a very thoughtful and caring person, as does your wife. You both seem to deserve each other in the way that you are both making a lot of effort to please each other. You must have very lucky kids; most women would react so negatively to finding such emails, and most men would attempt to have the best of both worlds. Also, this old flame of yours seems very sensible too; bailing out at the responsible moment. All three of you seem very on the ball.

One question, does your wife know that you don't love her as much as she loves you? You say she would rather you left if that were the case, so I presume she does not. On this presumption, it is safe to say that you are almost living a lie. My advice would be to be totally straight with your wife and tell her that you dont feel as you should. The truth shall set you free.

Regarding your old flame; have you not met her of late? Although it may seem very dangerous, it may be a good idea to see her. Given how kind hearted your wife seems, possible she would allow it? After all, you may find that you no longer connect. However, given that you both had similar dreams about one another over a long period of time; I can say with quite strong assurance that this may still be the one for you. A good way to check this; is it the younger version of your old flame you see in dreams and when you imagine her, or a new older version you have developed in your head? The latter will more likely result in higher compatibility, or you're more likely, like the previous poster has said, to be living in the past. And remember, if you haven't seen her in a while, she may be different to how you now see her in your mind.

[Lychee]

Why did you marry her if you weren't 100% committed to your wife to begin with? Who wants to be settled for? Your wife has been understanding in this case and as you said, she deserves a man who can love her the way she wants to be loved. JHL mentioned some good questions to ponder.

[Joe826]

Hi Dave,

What a tough situation. You've gotten some good advice here, and although it doesn't fix anything, it sounds like you're on your way to getting somewhere with this.

It sounds to me like you've already made your mind up about pursuing a relationship with this other woman. Honestly, even if this other relationship doesn't work out, you may be better off leaving anyway.

It's hard to live a full, happy life when you feel like you're settling.

It's up to you though. Think about it as much as you need, and then take action. Don't let anyone make you feel guilty for how you feel. There's some very mature people on this board so you should get the replies you deserve, but it is a touchy subject that alot of people may handle inappropriately elsewhere.

[Lychee]

Well Joe, you might as well have just called me out personally.

Dave, it wasn't my intention to be harsh with you. I realize that you are in a bit of a tight spot. If you feel that you cannot give your wife the love that she wants and needs, and you aren't fulfilled by the marriage either, then you both need a heart-to-heart about what is going on here. It would be good to discuss with your wife what you've share with us here but in depth. A quarter of a century with someone is a very long time, and you'll have to weigh your decision carefully.

Your wife said that if you could never love her the way she loves you, you both shouldn't be together. Do you think that her hope that you will love her like that is a false hope? Or do you sincerely believe that you could never give her what she wants? I'm sure you both are unhappy with the situation. But have you thought of it like this - maybe the way that she hopes that you will love her the way she wants to be loved is similar to your hope that a relationship with your ex will be as you want it to be? Are you sure it isn't infatuation?

[Joe826]

I wasn't calling you out at all Lychee, you were well within line. You post some great stuff around here, keep it up.

[Kamma]

I am concerned about your wife. I know you are in a sticky situation but I really don't think this is at all fair on her. If you were to move on it may break her heart but she could also find another love and be happy.
You have not mentioned this other woman's husband. Is she willing to leave for you or are you assuming that she is? She may njot be happy in her marriage but that does not mean she's willing to leave for you.
Please think long and hard before any decision is made. I can say that leaving for a short time to 'try it out' should not be an option. This is in no way fair to your wife and it would be playing with her feelings.

[imark]

I can't seem to log on with my original user name, so I've created a new one - but I'm the person who started this thread.

Update: Thanks for all the good advice. I'm more or less in the same place - still with my wife, not with the other person I also want to be with. (And I must want to be with me wife, or I wouldn't be.)

I've been a lot more honest with my wife about my feelings, for her, and for my old flame. My wife isn't happy.

Things seem, in one way, coming to a head.

- My wife would like to separate from me.

- And my old flame, well, I don't think she really wants to be with me on a long term basis. We've had some conversations and I think, for both of us, this has been some sort of strange game, almost one of chicken. Who could go the farthest declaring love for the other, who could be brought to the brink of changing their life for the other.

We seemed to have left it several days ago, my old flame and I, at goodbye - goodbye for now, for we both agreed that it was wrong to communicate with each other as long as I was with my wife. That's where it stands with us.

[honeybee]

Wow, idave/imark, reading your posts really hit home for me. In many ways, I might have even written the exact same things, with a few vital exceptions: that I’ve only been married for 5 years, we don’t have any kids yet, and in my case, there is no ‘old flame,’ but rather, just the deep, uneasy feeling that I am committed to a relationship which I see no future for.

Like idave/imark says about his wife, I also have a great deal of love of my husband, but lack the passion that my husband seems to hold towards me. Over the years, we have built a solid foundation of emotional detachment, and poor communication, leaving our intimate/physical, emotional, and practical lives wanting. I too feel doubtful that I have ever truly loved my husband as deeply as he does me. When we married, there were many practical/logical reasons to do so, as well as numerous family/social pressures, and with hindsight being 20/20, I know that I made a young/immature decision to vow myself to a lifelong commitment without truly knowing more about myself and the person I was committing to.

Similarly to idave/imark, I also realize that my reality is one of conflict. I see lychee’s point very clearly in my life, and I am painfully aware of the commitment that I made. At the same time, I feel like I am at a total loss on how to feel joyful and passionate in this relationship. I have tried the brutally honest conversations with him recently, but we are just left with deep hurt, and no answers. I’ve also tried inspiring the love and passion in my heart through couples counseling exercises and workbooks, but if anything, those realizations (and the accompanying personal growth) have solidified my desire to grow independently and outside/beyond the barriers of this relationship. I will quote idave/imark here, “The reason I should stay with [him], though, is not because I love [him] deeply (I do love [him]), but because I don't want to hurt [him] so deeply…. I love my [husband], I have tremendous affection for [him], but I can never love [him] the way [he] loves me.” I do feel like I’m living a lie, and I feel horrible both for not loving him as deeply as he loves me, and for the sense of failure I feel when I consider the idea of leaving.

Thanks to JHL, earlybird, lychee, joe826 and kamma for your input and feedback into the situation, they have been very insightful for me as well. Please feel free to add if you have any insights into my situation.

idave/imark, how are things going, anything worth updating us on?

[ZHereford]

I think that anyone who stays with another out of pity or obligation is not doing them or themselves a favor. If I knew my husband didn't love me as much as I loved him I would release him out of love, anything else would be selfishness on my part.

idave, like Lychee, I don't understand why you would stay with a woman for 30 years if you didn't love her deeply. Maybe you love her more than you realize.

Your old flame is probably more of a fantasy than reality because you've never been tested by the good, bad and ugly times that all real relationships are challenged with. You revere her in a romantic capacity. Of course she seems more glamorous to you than your wife does. My guess is that if you spent any length of time with her you would find her all too human. Most of us would be hard pressed to live up to an idea version of ourselves created in a admirer's mind. The reality of everyday living and challenges puts us all in a different light. I would tread very carefully before I made any life-altering decisions.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by ZHereford

I think that anyone who stays with another out of pity or obligation is not doing them or themselves a favor. If I knew my husband didn't love me as much as I loved him I would release him out of love, anything else would be selfishness on my part.

I see your point very clearly, although my husband would not. We are at very different places in terms of personal and spiritual growth, and I doubt that that would be a leap he would be willing to take...