What's your position on abortion? And why?

[Secretsbuild]

i believe in circumstance. if i were to get pregnant right now i would have to quit school and my job would fire me and id be kicked out. i dont want to bring a baby into the world like that. but if i was perfectly capable of sustaining an exceptional lifestyle for it, then my actions concequences are ones i have to live with.

[kinghtalexis]

I think it’s not wrong to go for abortion, i am sure people would come with all the saying that you are killing a life and all, but what if you can’t afford to have a baby? That would be worse to be not able to provide your baby. It would also apply to those who were rape. If you were raped and you end up being pregnant would you keep the child of a stranger or go for abortion. I guess you got the answer.

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by kinghtalexis

I think it’s not wrong to go for abortion, i am sure people would come with all the saying that you are killing a life and all, but what if you can’t afford to have a baby? That would be worse to be not able to provide your baby. It would also apply to those who were rape. If you were raped and you end up being pregnant would you keep the child of a stranger or go for abortion. I guess you got the answer.

I would have thought the same, but since there is a new member on the forum who has shared with us that his soon to be wife was raped and it resulted in her daughter, who is now a teen and very much loved...it would appear that some people are able to look past how it came to happen and embrace the child as something beautiful that came from something horrible.

Having said that though, I'm not sure I would be able to see it the same way if it were to happen to me?

[kikigoodas]

Everyone has a right to choose for themselves, however the only person who does'nt get to choose on wheter to live or die in the abortion situation is the baby. when i was pregnant with my daughter, i had a rather difficult pregnancy and so i was required to do an ultrasound as early as about 4-6 weeks, while doing the ultra sound, the doctor showed me the round sack and said that's the baby and there was a heartbeat. In society, doctors used a heartbeat / a pulse to know if a animal or person is alive, so i cant understand how an "unformed baby" with a heartbeat cannot be considered a living person.
So with this personal experience i do not endorse abortions, i can empathise with women who were raped and became pregnant and do not want to bear that child, but abortions should not be used as a contraceptive method like many women are doing today. my child is now 6 years old and she is absolutely amazing, best thing i ever did!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

Everyone has a right to choose for themselves, however the only person who does'nt get to choose on wheter to live or die in the abortion situation is the baby. when i was pregnant with my daughter, i had a rather difficult pregnancy and so i was required to do an ultrasound as early as about 4-6 weeks, while doing the ultra sound, the doctor showed me the round sack and said that's the baby and there was a heartbeat. In society, doctors used a heartbeat / a pulse to know if a animal or person is alive, so i cant understand how an "unformed baby" with a heartbeat cannot be considered a living person.
So with this personal experience i do not endorse abortions, i can empathise with women who were raped and became pregnant and do not want to bear that child, but abortions should not be used as a contraceptive method like many women are doing today. my child is now 6 years old and she is absolutely amazing, best thing i ever did!

There is alive, and there is alive. In society, doctors use brain waves to truly determine if something is alive. A pulse, is just to show that the BODY is alive. No brain waves, then it's as alive as a vegetable.

[kikigoodas]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

There is alive, and there is alive. In society, doctors use brain waves to truly determine if something is alive. A pulse, is just to show that the BODY is alive. No brain waves, then it's as alive as a vegetable.

well obviously there was no brain as i did say all that was there was a sack of blood with a hearbeat that you could hear on the monitor, sorry but that's life for me, as my baby was just 4-6 weeks. however she was alive and kicking, irrespective of all the spotting and other complications she held her own and she is here today.
Being braindead doesnt mean you are dead, you might not have cognitive functions and you might be a vegetable but you are still alive, and a doctor can't "kill" you because you are brain dead without your family permission......

There was a case recently in canada where a man over 90 years old was in the hospital in a coma for over a year and the doctors wanted the family to make a decision to pull the plug, the family refused, the case went to court and the judge ordered the "braindead" man to die on his own!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

well obviously there was no brain as i did say all that was there was a sack of blood with a hearbeat that you could hear on the monitor, sorry but that's life for me, as my baby was just 4-6 weeks. however she was alive and kicking, irrespective of all the spotting and other complications she held her own and she is here today.
Being braindead doesnt mean you are dead, you might not have cognitive functions and you might be a vegetable but you are still alive, and a doctor can't "kill" you because you are brain dead without your family permission......

There was a case recently in canada where a man over 90 years old was in the hospital in a coma for over a year and the doctors wanted the family to make a decision to pull the plug, the family refused, the case went to court and the judge ordered the "braindead" man to die on his own!

That's because of peoples beliefs that someone in a coma might have a miracle and come back to life. That's it. Still a difference between a fetus and a full size human. But, if you want to play that card.

If a hospital no longer has a dime, and NO ONE is able to afford to pay for the life support system for the person, then what happens then? If no one is willing to support the life, then the life will no longer be supported. I find it silly that we spend soooo much on people who are brain dead, for the sake of the family.

The mother is the life support system for the fetus. If she dies, the fetus dies. If she doesn't eat, the fetus doesn't eat. If she decides that her body will no longer support the fetus, then the fetus dies. The mothers body is the mothers body, and she as absolute rights over that body and what ever might be part of it. What if they figured out a way to give life support to a full grown human, by bypassing the functions of another full grown human?

No matter what your emotional views of the situation are, the life that is 100% dependent on the mother, is in the hands of the mother, and no one else. If the fetus is capable of being supported outside of the womb, then we have a different argument, but those abortions are very rare, and are usually happening because of the mothers life being threatened.

And on that subject. I love how complicated the debate gets, when we start talking about the mothers life.

The rights of the fetus that people fight so hard to argue for, get thrown out the window when the mothers life is at risk. Almost any anti abortion person will absolutely say that if the mother will die, the baby can be aborted, because suddenly, the babies rights are no longer valid, yet used to be valid before the mothers life was in peril. What takes away the babies right to life in that situation?

[kikigoodas]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

That's because of peoples beliefs that someone in a coma might have a miracle and come back to life. That's it. Still a difference between a fetus and a full size human. But, if you want to play that card.

If a hospital no longer has a dime, and NO ONE is able to afford to pay for the life support system for the person, then what happens then? If no one is willing to support the life, then the life will no longer be supported. I find it silly that we spend soooo much on people who are brain dead, for the sake of the family.

The mother is the life support system for the fetus. If she dies, the fetus dies. If she doesn't eat, the fetus doesn't eat. If she decides that her body will no longer support the fetus, then the fetus dies. The mothers body is the mothers body, and she as absolute rights over that body and what ever might be part of it. What if they figured out a way to give life support to a full grown human, by bypassing the functions of another full grown human?

No matter what your emotional views of the situation are, the life that is 100% dependent on the mother, is in the hands of the mother, and no one else. If the fetus is capable of being supported outside of the womb, then we have a different argument, but those abortions are very rare, and are usually happening because of the mothers life being threatened.

And on that subject. I love how complicated the debate gets, when we start talking about the mothers life.

The rights of the fetus that people fight so hard to argue for, get thrown out the window when the mothers life is at risk. Almost any anti abortion person will absolutely say that if the mother will die, the baby can be aborted, because suddenly, the babies rights are no longer valid, yet used to be valid before the mothers life was in peril. What takes away the babies right to life in that situation?

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself, i think you answered the question yourself,..... and i quote with your own words......., "Almost any anti abortion person will absolutely say that if the mother will die, the baby can be aborted, because suddenly, the babies rights are no longer valid, yet used to be valid before the mothers life was in peril. What takes away the babies right to life in that situation"...... (your own answer here).....the life that is 100% dependent on the mother, is in the hands of the mother, and no one else. If the fetus is capable of being supported outside of the womb then we have a different argument .........

So what is the obvious choice of who live or who dies, if the baby cant survive without the mother....?, also please take note of the words you are using to make your argument..... life, living, dying.... I REST MY CASE..... CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT, BUT A FETUS IS A LIFE..... p.s you have never been pregnant, have you?

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself, i think you answered the question yourself,..... and i quote with your own words......., "Almost any anti abortion person will absolutely say that if the mother will die, the baby can be aborted, because suddenly, the babies rights are no longer valid, yet used to be valid before the mothers life was in peril. What takes away the babies right to life in that situation"...... (your own answer here).....the life that is 100% dependent on the mother, is in the hands of the mother, and no one else. If the fetus is capable of being supported outside of the womb then we have a different argument .........

So what is the obvious choice of who live or who dies, if the baby cant survive without the mother....?, also please take note of the words you are using to make your argument..... life, living, dying.... I REST MY CASE..... CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT, BUT A FETUS IS A LIFE..... p.s you have never been pregnant, have you?

you rest your case huh? I use those words, because it's the only words people like you understand when talking about these things. Otherwise, I'd have to get into a huge game of sementics. Take note of my words, because a plant also has a life, is living, and dies. So, me using those words in this instance, does not take away from my argument. They are only words, and if you can't see past the words, at their actual meaning based on the context of the conversation and the person using them, then that's your own fault.

But, yeah, as far as my original point. If the mother dies, she can be kept alive, the way the 90 year old brain dead man can be kept alive, and wait until the baby is ready to live outside the womb. And there are many situations where saving the child, will kill the mother, and the father gets the choice of who to save. So, why do you feel it's ok to kill the baby, so that the mother lives, but not ok letting the mother die, so that the baby lives? Either they have rights, or they don't.

And if you claim the life is 100% in the hands of the mother, then why is it that you are so against abortion?

The only person contradicting themselves is you. I'm only playing with what ever information you have given me.

[ZephyrusX]

We've already discussed this issue at least twice in this thread. If you are interested in an opposing view, I encourage you to read the thread. If you still disagree with the pro-choice position after considering our viewpoints, I would love to hear why.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT, BUT A FETUS IS A LIFE

Why are you shouting?

In any case, what difference does it make if the fetus is a life or not? There are all kinds of sanctioned murder, including war, the death penalty, eating meat, physician assisted suicide, etc.

So this is just another circumstance where it's acceptable to take a life.

[kikigoodas]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

you rest your case huh? I use those words, because it's the only words people like you understand when talking about these things. Otherwise, I'd have to get into a huge game of sementics. Take note of my words, because a plant also has a life, is living, and dies. So, me using those words in this instance, does not take away from my argument. They are only words, and if you can't see past the words, at their actual meaning based on the context of the conversation and the person using them, then that's your own fault.

But, yeah, as far as my original point. If the mother dies, she can be kept alive, the way the 90 year old brain dead man can be kept alive, and wait until the baby is ready to live outside the womb. And there are many situations where saving the child, will kill the mother, and the father gets the choice of who to save. So, why do you feel it's ok to kill the baby, so that the mother lives, but not ok letting the mother die, so that the baby lives? Either they have rights, or they don't.

And if you claim the life is 100% in the hands of the mother, then why is it that you are so against abortion?

The only person contradicting themselves is you. I'm only playing with what ever information you have given me.

In the beginning of my thread i said everyone has a right to decide for themself, the only person who does'nt get to decide for themself is the baby!, then you started arguing that the "sack of blood" (which was my daughter i was referring to)"with a heartbeat / pulse was'nt considered a life because it had no brain.

so say whatever you think. anyways thats why its called an opinion and everyone is entitled to thiers!

Call it what you want a FETUS IS A LIFE...... MY FETUS NINE MONTHS AFTER TURNED OUT TO BE A GIRL. SHE IS NOW 6 YEARS OLD..... AND SHE IS GORGEOUS!!!!

[aelle]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

but abortions should not be used as a contraceptive method like many women are doing today.

Do you have a source for this claim? The research I have access to show that the majority of abortions follow a contraception failure.

MEASURE DHS - The Impact of Contraceptive Failure on Unintended Births and Induced Abortions: Estimates and Strategies for Reduction (English)

Abortion Common Among All Women, Even Those Thought to Oppose Abortion

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

Call it what you want a FETUS IS A LIFE...... MY FETUS NINE MONTHS AFTER TURNED OUT TO BE A GIRL. SHE IS NOW 6 YEARS OLD..... AND SHE IS GORGEOUS!!!!

Do you have to shout? You remind me of fundies.

Don't come crawling back when your "gorgeous" six year old daughter goes on a diet.

[MissKriss]

whether or not you believe a fetus has a soul yet, is a person, deserves rights - (which, when people do, causes some of them to view the world in black and white instead of various shades of gray with a very minor amount of black and white) is pretty much irrelevant - personally i do not think abortion can be equated to murder - i completely disagree with people who think that - i think it's more important to acknowledge that we live in an extremely complex world - one where women still have relatively little authority and income when compared to their male counterparts - who don't have to worry carrying a fetus to term - but even if someone does think abortion is murder - do those same people consider outlawing things like war and all violence? how about sports? LOL people die in football games sometimes! lol!? - baseball too? have people tried to make laws to outlaw sports? um no.

this is like someone trying to make a law that outlaws war for all eternity - yes war kills people - yes the majority of people want all war to be over for all eternity - but does anyone think a law like that would pass? can i go protest at a right wing church with a sign that says, "thou shall not kill, war should be illegal" would anyone take me seriously?- no, people would say, "sometimes life is too complex, sometimes there is corruption, yada yada yada" even if right now we have this global imperialism and if someone does have the ability to stop all of it, they haven't yet! am i going to go put pictures of pregnant mothers who were bombed in iraq, bombed and killed, and plaster those all over a truck and drive around yelling at people on a megaphone that war is murder? war kills fetuses? well it kills humans that's for sure - are those humans less prescious after they are born? - i'm glad people are protesting the current wars, but life is a rose and every rose has it's thorn.

if that sounds like a bad comparisson think of it this way - there are over 6 billion people on this earth and in recent history a very small percentage of them have died in war, and a very small percentage of fetuses have been aborted. that's a birds eye view - these are issues that seem ENORMOUS but they are relatively small (well war has all the money involved but that's another topic)

there's also a tendency to blame the woman - sometimes life throws horrible circumstances at you - sometimes they aren't all your fault either - if it were always a person's karma to go through something horrible - then how would anyone else ever accumulate negative karma?! what i mean is, sometimes a woman is all alone without a friend to turn to and she has very little income and things went wrong with the ex and she's just in a horrible situation - why impose rules on her that are even too difficult for society as a whole to stand up to?

and i'm just going to repeat myself - i am not saying abortion is equal to war or equal to murder - i'm saying for people who take it to that extreme and define it that way - those people fail to look at the real aggression that is glaring them in the face - and that's why politicians love to exploit this argument - beause it's emotionally charged and it's a great way to get attention off of more serious issues -

[russianrocket]

lol I've always loved to point out how religious people of America hate abortion, but are perfectly ok with war, guns, and the death penalty.

[cheesedip1]

I think if girls are raped and then choose to have an abortion, I think most people would understand. I hope anyways...

[MissKriss]

another problem is how about in the case of rape? what if some horrific monster rapes a kid? if the family and the girl don't want her to have to bring the fetus to term, isn't that horrible to make them think that abortion is murder? how about when the kid is raped by a family member?! would you be able to sleep at night forcing a 13 year old girl to have to deliver her uncle's baby? and raise the baby as it's mother?! what about when the baby wants to know who the father is? who's going to financially support her and the child? and if the child is raped - that's incest - what if it is born with genetic defects? these are worst case scenarios - but that is what the law is attempting to deal with as well as the more common circumstances. or even rape for adult females - just wrong to force them to mentally go down that path when they want the event to be over with.

And the rape scenario brings up the problem of - if you only made it legal for cases of rape - how on earth does a woman prove she was raped? next to impossible. "well ma'am, you could have put those bruises on yourself because you really wanted the abortion" this is ridiculous - we live in a world where people aim for perfect and land a million different degrees around it - and as a female who has felt threatened in this way before i get pretty upset knowing that i could be attacked outside of a planned parenthood if i chose to terminate an involuntary pregancy - i also get upset that the country i live in - the u.s. is going around bombing the *&)*() out of so many people yet i could be attacked and accused of murder for chosing to terminate an unplanned pregnancy - i believe people should avoid abortion as much as possible beause it is bad for the woman's health and in general a worst case scenario - last resort option - very important to use other forms of birth control if you don't want to get pregnant- but i believe for the health of society it's necessary to keep it legal -

[MissKriss]

speaking of football players anyway - roethlisberger sexually asaults a woman one week and goes on to play football in the super bowl on national television the next - well.. she was only half way to raped so it's ok! priorities people!

[kikigoodas]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Do you have to shout? You remind me of fundies.

Don't come crawling back when your "gorgeous" six year old daughter goes on a diet.

don't worry, my gorgeous daughter won't go on a diet because she is raised to be a strong person and to love herself, moreover, black people embrace their curves, especially jamaicans. aint many jamaican man that "prefers" skinny women!!!!!, moreover, thick is the new in-thing, last time i checked it was the other races who are paying to have their lips fuller, butt shots, hip shots, breast implants,you name it..... oh dear..... thank god i'm black and gifted!!!!

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by kikigoodas

don't worry, my gorgeous daughter won't go on a diet because she is raised to be a strong person and to love herself, moreover, black people embrace their curves, especially jamaicans. aint many jamaican man that "prefers" skinny women!!!!!, moreover, thick is the new in-thing, last time i checked it was the other races who are paying to have their lips fuller, butt shots, hip shots, breast implants,you name it..... oh dear..... thank god i'm black and gifted!!!!

It's a very big thing lately for black people to want to get more white features. Straightening hair, getting smaller butts, bleaching their skin. Skin bleaching is huge lately, even at the risk of their health. And you have magazine articles photoshopping black skin to be lighter. And, many black men are going for white women, vs their own race. So, lets hold off on the " other races" as if any race is exempt from anything.

Today on Tyra Banks: Black women tell why they bleach their babies skin : Sandra Rose
Vanessa Walters: It's wrong that millions of black women bleach their skin | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
Dying to be whiter: The black women who risk their lives for lighter skin | Mail Online
So get the hell out of here with that racist crap.

Also, don't assume ANYTHING about your daughter. Raising someone the way YOU think is the best way, doesn't mean they are going to turn out exactly the way you want them to turn out, but I can just imagine how you would treat the situation if she doesn't turn out the way you wanted her to .

[Yanna]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

In any case, what difference does it make if the fetus is a life or not? There are all kinds of sanctioned murder, including war, the death penalty, eating meat, physician assisted suicide, etc.

So this is just another circumstance where it's acceptable to take a life.

This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone express exactly how I feel about abortion.

I had an abortion two years ago. A man who I thought was a nice guy drugged me, and we had unprotected sex, the only time in my life I’ve ever had unprotected sex. I kind of said no at the time, I think. I don’t remember much because of the drugs. It didn’t occur to me that I could be pregnant from that once. Stupid, I know.
When I woke up next to him and it dawned on me what had happened, I told him that he needed to leave and that I never wanted to have anything to do with him ever again. About six weeks later, I took a test that came up positive.
As soon as I saw those two lines, I was aware there was something alive in me. Something growing, something potentially beautiful. And I was not that young, 28, and I have always wanted children.
But I had no career, no relationship, was living abroad, had no clue about what I wanted to do with my life. I could technically move back to my parents, get some money from the government, raise this baby from welfare check to welfare check. And be forever connected to this mentally unstable guy who never stopped calling me, saying we were destined to be together...

I could have done it, but it would have been a path of hurt, drama and scarcity. Instead, I chose an abortion and I never even told the guy I was pregnant.

There was never any doubt in my mind that that was a baby growing inside me. I never once thought - oh I’m just removing a clump of cells, la dee da. Embryo, fetus, baby, whatever you want to call it, it was alive. And then I paid someone 400 dollars to take that away. Physically, I was fine (fortunately I was in a country where it's safe and legal), but mentally it hurt like hell. It was the worst heartbreak I’ve ever experienced.

So yes, in essence, I took a life. But to me, it made so much sense. It was such a natural thing to do and I have never regretted it. It was so much better for everyone.

But it’s an unconventional point of view, and hard to understand, even for myself. I had no idea I felt about it this way until it happened. And that’s why I was amazed to find CroMagna expressing exactly how I feel, putting it in the exact right words. Thank you...

There are circumstances where it’s acceptable to take a life. This, for me, was one. Maybe it wouldn’t be for you, that’s fine. Then don’t have an abortion. It really is that simple and that personal.

[BillieAnn]

I do not know .. too big and complicated.
That little creature is a new life.
But also and the life of the mother is a life, too. She has a right decision if she don't whant to become a mother. Everyone has a right of mistake! We are only humans. We are doing a mistake! But we are that one who must be responsable. Educated!

[MissKriss]

Originally Posted by Yanna

This is the first time I’ve ever seen anyone express exactly how I feel about abortion.

I had an abortion two years ago. A man who I thought was a nice guy drugged me, and we had unprotected sex, the only time in my life I’ve ever had unprotected sex. I kind of said no at the time, I think. I don’t remember much because of the drugs. It didn’t occur to me that I could be pregnant from that once. Stupid, I know.
When I woke up next to him and it dawned on me what had happened, I told him that he needed to leave and that I never wanted to have anything to do with him ever again. About six weeks later, I took a test that came up positive.
As soon as I saw those two lines, I was aware there was something alive in me. Something growing, something potentially beautiful. And I was not that young, 28, and I have always wanted children.
But I had no career, no relationship, was living abroad, had no clue about what I wanted to do with my life. I could technically move back to my parents, get some money from the government, raise this baby from welfare check to welfare check. And be forever connected to this mentally unstable guy who never stopped calling me, saying we were destined to be together...

I could have done it, but it would have been a path of hurt, drama and scarcity. Instead, I chose an abortion and I never even told the guy I was pregnant.

There was never any doubt in my mind that that was a baby growing inside me. I never once thought - oh I’m just removing a clump of cells, la dee da. Embryo, fetus, baby, whatever you want to call it, it was alive. And then I paid someone 400 dollars to take that away. Physically, I was fine (fortunately I was in a country where it's safe and legal), but mentally it hurt like hell. It was the worst heartbreak I’ve ever experienced.

So yes, in essence, I took a life. But to me, it made so much sense. It was such a natural thing to do and I have never regretted it. It was so much better for everyone.

But it’s an unconventional point of view, and hard to understand, even for myself. I had no idea I felt about it this way until it happened. And that’s why I was amazed to find CroMagna expressing exactly how I feel, putting it in the exact right words. Thank you...

There are circumstances where it’s acceptable to take a life. This, for me, was one. Maybe it wouldn’t be for you, that’s fine. Then don’t have an abortion. It really is that simple and that personal.

*hugs* sorry to hear you had such a horrible experience - sending healing thoughts -

[NursingGirl]

I don't think I have ever posted in a thread before where I didn't read all the responses but I don't have all night to read 29 pages!!! WOW!

I had a pregnancy that in the 17th week, I discovered that they were conjoined twins with anencephaly. I thought the doctor was very rude when he shook the ultrasound monitor on my stomach and said, "See the brain matter floating in the amniotic fluid?" Um, no...I don't know enough about ultrasound pictures to see that and I am not in an emotional state for you to talk to me about brain matter floating freely in amniotic fluid when an hour ago, I thought I had a healthy baby inside me.

I could have carried to term, I suppose, but I talked to medical professionals including a geneticist and believed that the twins would not be viable even if I carried to term. However, I had to be induced and deliver them and I felt HORRIBLE about what pain they may be suffering as I labored and delivered. The footprints I had made of them were the size of a barbie's foot. It was a horrible experience and not without guilt, even though I know that I made a logical decision and the best one for my body and my emotional state.

All I'm saying is that life is not always neat and organized, planned and happy. Some choices in life feel like no choice at all because either outcome is not a desired one. The worst thing I went through was during my labor, I kept wondering if it was hurting them or if they were dying painfully. But imagine if I was not allowed to make this decision for myself? I would be more traumatized by not having a choice than by the process I went through in ending my childrens' lives that were planned and desired. It took many months for me to process that experience and many times I have gone over and over in my mind if I made the right one. I would do the same thing today and though it looks like I made the logical choice to people whom I have talked to- it was not an experience dominated by logic. It was a very emotionally difficult decision.

[Vaganova]

I don't remember where I read this, but I saw a study in (Romania??) somewhere. As long as there were legal abortions, the children born were smarter, better cared for, and more responsive to authority.

When the government changed and made abortion illegal, the children born were dumber, less cared for by their parents, and didn't care about authority.

If you live in a country where abortion is legal, even if you never do it, your kids know you *wanted* them. You had the option to get rid of them and you didn't. Just the fact that they're alive means you care about *them*. If you live in a country where abortion is illegal, your kids know that you're stuck with them, period, and won't respect you as much.

The only 'anti' I have on abortion is this: countries that misbalance the genders. Not sure how to handle that...

[anoldsmoothie]

Abortion rights advocates are not only content with having the right to freely choose an abortion, they want to take away your right to believe it's an immoral act.

Why do I know this? Because here's my position and experience on the matter:

I believe taking a fetus's life is immoral. But I also realize that I can't control others from believing it isn't. I do however, wish to have the right to not associate with those that do, in any way aid and abet their choices with taxes or passive compliance, nor have strident choicers deride my beliefs.

Try this approach some day when the subject comes-up at a party. Tell folks you don't want to associate with anyone who believes abortion is just another serious medical procedure and that you do not want your money used in any way for promoting or performing it. Then throw in that you almost sure the practice will lead to politically mandated euthanasia.

Be prepared to be shunned the rest of the night. For it's not only their desire to make sure you allow the practice, but you openly and firmly believe they do no wrong in advocating it.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by anoldsmoothie

Abortion rights advocates are not only content with having the right to freely choose an abortion, they want to take away your right to believe it's an immoral act.

Why do I know this? Because here's my position and experience on the matter:

I believe taking a fetus's life is immoral. But I also realize that I can't control others from believing it isn't. I do however, wish to have the right to not associate with those that do, in any way aid and abet their choices with taxes or passive compliance, nor have strident choicers deride my beliefs.

Try this approach some day when the subject comes-up at a party. Tell folks you don't want to associate with anyone who believes abortion is just another serious medical procedure and that you do not want your money used in any way for promoting or performing it. Then throw in that you almost sure the practice will lead to politically mandated euthanasia.

Be prepared to be shunned the rest of the night. For it's not only their desire to make sure you allow the practice, but you openly and firmly believe they do no wrong in advocating it.

Yeah, you'll be shunned, because no one would want to talk to you, because they'd see you as a weirdo.

I'm undecided on the subject of who's money it is. But even with that said, people like you, want the practice done away with, period. You talk a big game, and claim that you just don't want your money used, but you don't want them done PERIOD. Do you really think anyone believes otherwise? And that's the crux of the problem. The anti choice argument, has nothing to do with money. It's just another argument, to try to get your point across, because the moral one no longer works, as people are becoming less and less superstitious. No one gives a ♥♥♥♥ about your beliefs or what you openly and firmly believe. It's only when you try to control other peoples lives, that we say NAY.

[anoldsmoothie]

rr: you are right, the moral one doesn't work anymore.

[russianrocket]

Originally Posted by anoldsmoothie

rr: you are right, the moral one doesn't work anymore.

You say that like a bad thing.