Multi-lingual and Children

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Patricia

This is an odd one: I'm starting to find it hard to be as articulate (in writing and speaking) in Portuguese as I used to be, which is completely bizarre to me!!! Of course you never forget your own native language, but your brain is on a different switch the majority of the time, so every now and then I'll find myself looking for ways to express certain things and not being able to be as articulate or find just the right words. I didn't expect that to happen at all, it's totally bizarre and I doubt it happens to most people.

It happens to me... I find it very difficult to talk about certain things in Dutch or to even write in Dutch because my main communication is in English and Spanish now.

This is going to be complicated when I have a child because I would want it to grow up speaking Dutch... so I guess I'll have read more, watch more tv etc in Dutch again...

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Patricia

This is an odd one: I'm starting to find it hard to be as articulate (in writing and speaking) in Portuguese as I used to be, which is completely bizarre to me!!! Of course you never forget your own native language, but your brain is on a different switch the majority of the time, so every now and then I'll find myself looking for ways to express certain things and not being able to be as articulate or find just the right words. I didn't expect that to happen at all, it's totally bizarre and I doubt it happens to most people.

I think it's a fairly typical experience of people who live immersed in a language that's not their native one - and you can, in fact, forget your native language. Now I purposefully look daily for reading material in French, in order to maintain some fluency. Like Ssandra, I plan to talk to my children in my native language, and I need some brushing up! My partner doesn't even feel like he could talk to his children in Dutch, that's not his "heart language" anymore.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by aelle

My partner doesn't even feel like he could talk to his children in Dutch, that's not his "heart language" anymore.

That could potentially be a problem for me as well...

What I've researched (read: googled) is that for children to learn a language well they need to be exposed to it at least 33% of the time they are awake. So if it feels too uncomfortable talking on a daily basis in Dutch (I'm not going to compromise my childrens well being and feeling loved for a language!) I will read stories in Dutch, have them watch cartoons in Dutch and find other Dutch children to socialize with.

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by ssandra

It happens to me... I find it very difficult to talk about certain things in Dutch or to even write in Dutch because my main communication is in English and Spanish now.

Wow! I'm relieved to know I'm not alone in having this issue! I find it so strange... How long have you been away from home?

Originally Posted by ssandra

This is going to be complicated when I have a child because I would want it to grow up speaking Dutch... so I guess I'll have read more, watch more tv etc in Dutch again...

No matter what, I think teaching children my native language is important. No matter how fluent you are in another language, I want to be able to communicate with my own child in my own language too and I think the child also benefits from growing up bilingual. Learning English and German as a kid made a huge difference in my life.

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by aelle

I think it's a fairly typical experience of people who live immersed in a language that's not their native one - and you can, in fact, forget your native language. Now I purposefully look daily for reading material in French, in order to maintain some fluency.

You mean, completely forget? I think that would be so strange to me, but, again, I'm surprised by the fact that I already forget words as it is (sometimes even simple words), so I think anything is possible. I still write in Portuguese and talk to family and friends in Brazil on a regular basis, so I know I won't forget, but it's a little bit unsettling to catch yourself struggling to express simple things sometimes. I have 3 blogs in Portuguese and used to write consistently. I took a (circumstantial) break from that after I moved here and when I went back to writing I noticed a big difference in my ability to develop a good article in Portuguese. Meanwhile, writing in English gets easier and easier.

Originally Posted by aelle

Like Ssandra, I plan to talk to my children in my native language, and I need some brushing up! My partner doesn't even feel like he could talk to his children in Dutch, that's not his "heart language" anymore.

I've already commented on that above, but I feel the same way you and Ssandra do. I've even started talking to people about what the best approach is, in order not to confuse the child. I'm glad to know other women (and men, I assume) living abroad think about this too. Maybe we should start a separate thread to discuss this - but thank you both so much for sharing.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by ssandra

That could potentially be a problem for me as well...

What I've researched (read: googled) is that for children to learn a language well they need to be exposed to it at least 33% of the time they are awake. So if it feels too uncomfortable talking on a daily basis in Dutch (I'm not going to compromise my childrens well being and feeling loved for a language!) I will read stories in Dutch, have them watch cartoons in Dutch and find other Dutch children to socialize with.

I read that number as well. The solution a lot of people opt for is sending the kids over to Opa and Oma 2 months a year!

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Patricia

Maybe we should start a separate thread to discuss this - but thank you both so much for sharing.

I'm all for it!

[aelle]

Here are some of the blogs I read on the topic of raising children multilingually:

Bilingual Mom
Blogging On Bilingualism
BabelKid - Raising a Multilingual Child
MULTI TONGUE KIDS
Multilingual Mania ? Multilingual Parenting, Multilingual Education, Multilingual Advocacy

My household situation is: me, native French speaker, partner, native Dutch speaker, talk to one another in English, living in Korea. No kids in the mix yet, but when they come we would definitely go by the OPOL (One Parent One Language) model. I would speak French, W. would speak Dutch (and so would our respective families), we'd let the environment teach Korean (or whatever it will be at the time) and keep English secret for as long as possible. I am confident the kids will become fluent in English soon enough, but if we introduce it too early I'm worried it will take over all the other languages.

This is the only model that makes any kind of sense in our situation. In families where both parents share a language, native or not, that is different from the environment language, they can opt for teaching the minority language at home (ML@H). The aim remains to get close to the 33% mark or above for all languages, which is what is generally needed to feel "native" of a language.
But even if you can't reach these 33%, it's never completely lost - every bit helps move towards proficiency. Also, kids don't learn linearly, so if you speak the minority language 15% of the time during most of the year, but then spend a 2 month vacation in the minority country, they will learn by leaps.

[ssandra]

Thanks for the links Aelle!

My situation:

I'm Dutch, my husband Mexican, we live in Mexico at the moment.

At home we speak English, Spanish and Dutch (in that order).

We both speak all languages, although I am more fluent in Spanish then my husband in Dutch.

Once we have a child I will speak in Dutch and so will my family. I will get childrens tv programs, movies and books in Dutch as well.

My husband will speak Spanish (as well as his family and society).

My husband and me will speak English to each other (like we do now).

[votoshka]

This brings to mind a couple of things!

My MIL moved to Australia from the Netherlands when she was 5 years old... until that time she'd only heard/spoken Dutch. However, when the family moved to Australia they just started speaking English, so the kids learned that. Now, my MIL can speak a few Dutch words but can't really speak the language at all, although she can understand it.

On the other hand... my best friend's brother married a Japanese woman, and their arrangement with their kids is that she speaks Japanese to them while he speaks English. They naturally speak English at school, although when they were pre-schoolers they were better at Japanese because their mum had them most of the time. They're very bright and picked up both languages really easily!

It seems to me the best solution is to speak both languages to the kids, because they are capable of easily learning more than one at that stage. It would be a great pity, I think, to lose the language of your birth because your parents stopped speaking it! I guess my MIL's family, at the time, really just wanted to integrate into Australian society... but it would have been so easy for them to help their kids keep their Dutch language heritage, even while ensuring they learned English.

Me, I'm just an English speaking person who only wishes she had the chance to pick up other languages while young It's a goal of mine to learn more, but I'm really not sure how to go about teaching myself another language effectively! I think I just need to dedicate time to it and lots of practice...

[Coccinnelle]

When children are young they have no problems learning many languages at the same time.
In my family we also speak 3 different languages every day. My children prefer English but they understand and can use the other two languages very well. One of the languages is a slavic language and that means they are also able to read and write in cyrillic.
For my work I use English and French every day.
I was raised by a German speaking grandma.

[Weena]

My experience is totally different...my son is barely interested at all in French. I'd say he speaks 98% English and 2% French . I think part of it is that I only spoke English during my pregnancy with him. With my daughter I spoke heaps more in French (on the phone, on Skype, and face-to-face when my mother came for a holiday). So she at least heard both in-utero. And she seems to respond well to hearing French. Hopefully she'll get into more...

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Weena

My experience is totally different...my son is barely interested at all in French. I'd say he speaks 98% English and 2% French .

Do you speak English to them or French? And with your husband, do you speak English together or French?

[Weena]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Do you speak English to them or French? And with your husband, do you speak English together or French?

Children: both. I tried the "exclusively French" but it does not work well since his entire environment is in English...if i want to make myself clear i have to do it in English. He likes hearing stories in French but he points at things in the book and tell me the English words for it . Sometimes he repeats something if the subject is interesting to him (e.g: trains. bath, or train in the bath ).

With my husband only English. He isn't fluent in French (though he understand a fair bit, given that "proper" French is spoken. Not when my brothers use slang every other word).

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Weena

Children: both. I tried the "exclusively French" but it does not work well since his entire environment is in English...

Ah, ok, that makes sense then...

What is not working well with speaking French even if his entire environment is in English? Cause that is basically the situation that I'm going to be in as well, except with Dutch and Spanish.

I know that others won't understand me when I'm speaking Dutch to him or her, but that is ok for me. As long as my child understands...

[Weena]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Ah, ok, that makes sense then...

What is not working well with speaking French even if his entire environment is in English? Cause that is basically the situation that I'm going to be in as well, except with Dutch and Spanish.

I know that others won't understand me when I'm speaking Dutch to him or her, but that is ok for me. As long as my child understands...

Well I tried to teach him the French vocabulary but I was competing with his dad/play mates/Elmo/our friends...know what I mean? English makes more sense to him. My father said at least because he hears me, even if he does not use English, if he decides to learn French at school it'll be easier for him as he will have heard a fair bit of it. He's got quite a few books in French and a few dvds... The only thing he says in French is "tope-la!" (hi five!) though Even when he sees my sister via webcam, we've tried to get him to call her "tata" but he calls her "auntie". Eh.

Might be different with my daughter. She's quite mesmerized when my mum is on the webcam going "que tu es jolie ma cheriiiie" (you're so pretty my darling). Or maybe she just loves compliments .

[ssandra]

Ah ok. I'm planning to just talk daily with my child in Dutch, as a day to day thing, since birth, so it won't be as much teaching vocabulary as learning as children normally learn any language.