am trying out online dating.... soo frustrating so far!!!

[ultimate]

I am pulling my hair out as it seems like I am not getting much progress

I wanna find someone like I did before, have a fun chat, then webcam chat and then meet where the atmosphere is absolutely electric!!!

the best thing ever!

aaahhhhhh!!!!!!!

[BillyTheAdult]

I've thought about this before, but from online reviews I've read there's like 20 guys to every girl, don't know if that's true though. Also it seems like people send e-mails back and forth for like a month, I'd rather just meet them once, and see if it's going to work.

[scotthegeek]

I thing if you want to meet someone that you have to try everything that you can think of. I makes me feel bad sometime that I have to write 15 girls to get an answer and 100 girls to get a date. But my typing and spelling has improved and I did go on a couple of dates. I have lost my virginity with the one girl and made out with another so that progress. My social skill are improving too. so if you not getting what you want you are getting something but by doing something

the few girls I talk to online dating site did not have a lot of guys contacting them or a lot of dates but these are the one willing to talk to me so it seem like they where scraping the bottom of the barrel. Its just to bad that I'm at the bottom of barrel.

keep trying until and if something is not working try something else.

Scott

[rawxstasy]

I agree with Scott. Keep trying different things until you find something that works. Put up a profile picture- that helps. I usually pass by the ones that don't have a picture. Are you contacting girls or waiting for them to contact you?

Another thing, I knew a guy who was in his 50's and he was trying to get with girls who were 25 years old.. yeah good luck with that one. Try to be realistic.

There alot of women out there who are nice and fun and get passed by all the time. ( mainly because of being overweight) If you can be open minded and not be looking only for a "hot" girl like the rest of the world - I think you'll have some success.

[Medea33]

Originally Posted by rawxstasy

There alot of women out there who are nice and fun and get passed by all the time. ( mainly because of being overweight) If you can be open minded and not be looking only for a "hot" girl like the rest of the world - I think you'll have some success.

I agree. Going for quality and availability and being flexible on some things would increase your chances.

I'd also say your ad or whatever needs to be well-written and honest. Is it?

[Benton]

In my experience as a man, online dating is wholly a numbers game. I decided a few months back to give it a good try.

My experience was that regardless of if you used a form email or spent an hour writing 'the perfect email' responses were anywhere from 1:50 to 1:20. Dates were about 1:80.

Bizarre emails tend to get better first responses, (one about jumping off a cliff and ending up with a helicopter ride to the hospital for our first date worked best) but lead to very little.

Thought out, personal emails seem to get the worst response, but that could just be me.

Now, I won't disagree that I am somewhat picky about looks. I'm looking for somebody who I find attractive. I check profiles from the age of about 18 to about 40 (eleven years plus or minus) and I do want somebody who weighs less than me. If that makes me shallow, so be it.

Anyhow, I'm done with online dating. At least at a bar it's impolite to ignore somebody who says hi.

[VinceG]

Originally Posted by rawxstasy

Another thing, I knew a guy who was in his 50's and he was trying to get with girls who were 25 years old.. yeah good luck with that one. Try to be realistic.

A person wants what they want. 50-25 isn't that big of an age difference. He may have the social heft to pull that off, he may not. But don't dismiss it just because it sounds icky.

[neilward2]

Originally Posted by ultimate

I am pulling my hair out as it seems like I am not getting much progress

I wanna find someone like I did before, have a fun chat, then webcam chat and then meet where the atmosphere is absolutely electric!!!

the best thing ever!

aaahhhhhh!!!!!!!

I know first hand how frustrating online dating is!! I spent 2 years researching it!!

Ok a few points: the message response rate that guys talk about is due to the men not knowing what to write to get the woman's attention, 1/50 etc.

I did loads of research on this and got my friend to set up an account (she is very attractive), I then got her to let me take over the account so I could record the stats. In just 1 week, Suzy got over 700 messages... yes, that's 100 messages per day. So... think about this guys, writing a title like: 'Hey' and a message like:

'hey, how's it going? I just looked over your profile and thought you seemed really fun, get back to me if you want to chat"

Is NEVER going to work! You are competing with 100 other guys a day so you have a 1 in 100 chance. YOU HAVE TO BE UNIQUE!!!

Stats based on central London so will vary according to your City density...

I have about a dozen profiles online across different sites, I found this the best way to do it and I changed my picture and write up regularly so the women would forget that they had spoken to me in the first place.

I then came up with loads of catchy titles and quirky messages that HAD to get a response. Once the woman reads the message she will reply 60% of the time, if you know anyone with a better response rate, please let me know!!!!! As I would love to talk to this person and get their input on my online dating product!!!

And no, this isn't a sales pitch, LOL! Just a few tips to point you in the right direction

[Benton]

Originally Posted by neilward2

'hey, how's it going? I just looked over your profile and thought you seemed really fun, get back to me if you want to chat"

Is NEVER going to work! You are competing with 100 other guys a day so you have a 1 in 100 chance. YOU HAVE TO BE UNIQUE!!!

Unique isn't the right word. The problem is that no matter how interesting your message is, there is a fairly high likelihood your message simply won't get read. I found that using a random word generator worked pretty good for subject lines. This is the message that got the best response:

You're a 86% match! I'm excited, are you? Should I give you a minute? Here's a paper bag to breath into, if you need it. I don't want to be responsible for head injuries due to passing out. I'm pretty sure the ER doesn't make for a good date. Although, I haven't tried that tack yet.

Hey! Maybe that could be our first date. We could find a cliff (not a really high one, though) and jump off and, if we're lucky, we might even get a flight in a helicopter. How cool would that be?

Your friends would all be like "What did you do last night?" and you could say "Oh! I met this great guy and we took a ride in a helicopter then, after extensive medical treatment and a short stay in the ICU, we had an great florescent-lit dinner in the cafeteria. I can't believe how awesome it was! We even have matching surgical pins!" Oh, ya, you better believe they'd be jealous.

But we can't do any of this if we don't start a conversation. So here we go:

We're in a car, full tank of gas, ready to head out on a road trip. Where are we going and why?

As I would love to talk to this person and get their input on my online dating product!!!

Bravo claims a similar response rate. Several guys at stylelife and pickup artist forum claim similar rates, in fact.

What nobody is telling us is that no matter how good the divorce email works (or whatever variation you use) lack of attractive personality will show through after about two emails and your success rate will be back down around 1%. If you're successful at dating, you will be successful, regardless of being at a bar, club or website. If you're not successful, your likely not going to be any more successful online than you are in person.

That's my 2c.

[Brutha]

A person wants what they want. 50-25 isn't that big of an age difference. He may have the social heft to pull that off, he may not.

I would guess that it quite difficult to do that online. Online people get judged on the first impression.

Is NEVER going to work! You are competing with 100 other guys a day so you have a 1 in 100 chance. YOU HAVE TO BE UNIQUE!!!

Or you have to simply go to a place where the odds are slightly better. There are a lot of Yoga classes with attractive girls and few guys. Dance classes are another good location.

[yossarian]

Girls literally get hundreds of messages. They can't read them all, and most of the girls are in relationships anyway. They enjoy getting the messages for the ego boost but they physically can't reply to them all.

Anyway I've been on 4 dates from OkCupid and 3 led to sex. None of them were ugly or fat but all of them were quirky nerds, which is pretty much my type. I'm not complaining. Their ages were: 19, 21, 22, 23. I didn't sleep with the 22 year old. Also there were 2 other girls who replied to me saying they'd go on dates but I turned them down due to circumstances.

My "getting a date" rate is pretty good, probably like 2:1. I never spent much time on there. For most of the girls, I hadn't even filled out any quizzes. (I was bored at one point and ended up doing a bunch. But IMO this is just irrelevant.) My profile was short and truthful - no one reads them if they're long. And if you lie, you're just setting yourself up for failure.

After I got to know these girls they would show me their OkCupid accounts... and they get an insane amount of messages.

When I started reading the messages they were getting, it became very obvious to me why so many guys have failure. Most guys seem to be retarded.

I interrogated all of these girls about their OkCupid behaviour. (I'm a psychologist, I can't help it)

The girls would typically click most of the messages, look at the pictures, and skim or skip the words. If it's more than 1 paragraph they're not gonna read anything unless it really pops out like novel-quality writing or something. Or the guy is particularly attractive in his picture.

Most guys write messages that are either:

1. "hey wutz up write back lolz"

or

2. <insert 10,000 word life story>

My strategy was very simple.

1. Say hello ("Hi")
2. Tell the girl what I'm doing right now ("I'm eating shahi indian style pizza with crushed red pepper while posting on the steve pavlina forum on my couch in my underwear")
3. Tell the girl I like her and why, being honest ("You're cool and I like you. I like your X and Y.")
4. Tell the girl to have coffee with me ("You like Starbucks? I live near the Starbucks at x-y-z street let's get together sometime.)

These messages are very easy to write. It takes me like 30 seconds to write one. Since I don't know her, this is an appropriate level of effort to put in. Any more and I'd consider myself desperate.

I think I've messaged like 10-15 girls in total. (I would check but OkCupid is blocked) I met 4 of them and could have met 6 of them. So that's about 2:1 ratio.

Notice how I get straight to the point - this wasn't by design - this is honestly just how I am. I find it very boring talking to girls romantically on the internet. Either they are going to meet me or not, I don't write long letters back and forth.

By looking on OkCupid I was able to find nerdier girls than I usually find. Most of the girls in the world are not nerdy, they are normal ditzy girls. But online dating has the advantage of letting the introverts get out of their shell. It's rare that I get to talk about Kurosawa or Tolkien or anime with a girl. So for me that's the benefit of OkCupid.

Also it's really lazy. You don't have any of the normal issues with meeting strangers. Takes a lot less effort.

[scotthegeek]

I just signed up on OK cupid and I'm finding some nerdy girls which is good to bad there are not to many in my city and I like doing there quizzes and its a free site.

Scott

[joelr]

I put an ad on the personals section of craigslist a few years ago (it's free) and got a lot of responses and some dates.
I did put a pic in the ad.

In contrast to dating sites that I've tried where even when the other person doesn't flake out they turn out to be much less attractive than the pic indicates.

People lie like crazy. If it's not weight it's age.
Even one woman I did end up dating for a few months when I was 30 said she was 37. She was actually 43. And I did totally know it right off.

[rawxstasy]

Originally Posted by joelr

People lie like crazy. If it's not weight it's age.
Even one woman I did end up dating for a few months when I was 30 said she was 37. She was actually 43. And I did totally know it right off.

Yes, I noticed this. I had an account on Adult Friend Finder and alot of the people their profile is like from them 20 years ago or not even them!! I met a couple of people from there and it was like ... wow - big surprise!

I think the dishonesty about age is because in search results most people are looking for younger. If you don't come up their search results you're out of luck. I've thought about putting in a younger age in my profile and I could probably get away with it - but that's not a good way to start out a relationship.

[jim Gardener]

You should try volunteering, its a strange but effective way to meet women who are usually genuine and have a strong sense purpose in this world.

[rawxstasy]

Originally Posted by yossarian

When I started reading the messages they were getting, it became very obvious to me why so many guys have failure. Most guys seem to be retarded.

I got a good laugh out of that...

Originally Posted by yossarian

1. "hey wutz up write back lolz"

or

2. <insert 10,000 word life story>

My experience too....

[Old Garrick]

I've actually had a kind of perverse success with these sites. I used to like setting up joke profiles when I was younger just to see who would come knocking. Sure enough, I'd get a few responses a week.

These were really ridiculous profiles too. I'd do things like listing my hairstyle as "combover" (well, I didn't think of that at the time but I wish I had) and saying I was the ugliest man in a fifteen-mile radius.

Mind you, I got the responses completely unsolicited. I never even put up a picture. I hope that at least some of them were spam or there is no fairness in the world.

As for advice, maybe put up a pic where you're not looking directly at the camera. I hear guys who do that get better results.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Old Garrick

I've actually had a kind of perverse success with these sites. I used to like setting up joke profiles when I was younger just to see who would come knocking. Sure enough, I'd get a few responses a week.

Girls love that. That's just called being funny.

The downside is that if you start the relationship that way, they're going to expect you to be a comedian forever. Not worth the hassle.

I try to be extra boring when I first meet people to keep their expectations low. Then if they like me I know they'll like me even in the bad times

[votoshka]

I don't get why people just aren't honest on dating sites! I mean, if you're going to MEET the person (duh) then they're going to figure it out pretty quickly if you're not what you said you were!

I mean, I could go on and lie about my age easily, cause I look 10+ years younger than I am...but eventually they're gonna figure it out!

It's like, I may as well use a regular photo of myself... I look awful in photos lol...but I'd rather they were pleasantly surprised upon meeting me rather than disappointed!

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by votoshka

I don't get why people just aren't honest on dating sites! I mean, if you're going to MEET the person (duh) then they're going to figure it out pretty quickly if you're not what you said you were!

I mean, I could go on and lie about my age easily, cause I look 10+ years younger than I am...but eventually they're gonna figure it out!

It's like, I may as well use a regular photo of myself... I look awful in photos lol...but I'd rather they were pleasantly surprised upon meeting me rather than disappointed!

Yeah, I'm 6'0", and when I met one of the girls from OkCupid, she didn't believe me - she thought I lied on my profile. I was offended so I got a tape measure and made her measure me.

She told me that other guys she met from OkCupid were 2-3 inches shorter than what they advertised. Apparently I was the first to tell the whole truth. Unbelievable!

Imagine how bad it makes you look to be caught lying about your height. Why do people set themselves up for such painful situations? Obviously, it's out of deeply ingrained pessimism of some kind.

[beast]

I guess they figure that once they're given the chance, they'll be able to dazzle their dates and their stats won't matter anymore. I can imagine it occasionally works - I would be turned off by a guy being below 5'9 if I just saw his info on a website, but who knows, I can imagine giving a really great 5'8 guy a chance if I met him in person and we hit it off.

It does seem incredibly awkward, for sure. Especially because very few people who claim to look 5-10 years younger than they are actually appear younger, but I have a knack for guessing ages. I can understand the impulse to put "30" though, if you're 31 years old and concerned that your profile won't be seen because it won't fit as many search parameters.

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by beast

I guess they figure that once they're given the chance, they'll be able to dazzle their dates and their stats won't matter anymore. I can imagine it occasionally works - I would be turned off by a guy being below 5'9 if I just saw his info on a website, but who knows, I can imagine giving a really great 5'8 guy a chance if I met him in person and we hit it off.

It does seem incredibly awkward, for sure. Especially because very few people who claim to look 5-10 years younger than they are actually appear younger, but I have a knack for guessing ages. I can understand the impulse to put "30" though, if you're 31 years old and concerned that your profile won't be seen because it won't fit as many search parameters.

Well I think lying about I dunno being an inch taller or whatever doesn't matter much, cause most people wouldn't notice lol. But I think if you're planning on having a relationship (possibly) it helps to be more honest.

As for age though, I actually hate telling people my real age when I meet them because my real age is so far off what most people imagine it will be, and they're almost invariably drawn to comment on this. I decided that next time I go out and someone asks my age, I'll take off 10 years just to avoid it . (I actually hate drawing attention to myself lol... age is a topic I'd rather just avoid ).

[neilward2]

Originally Posted by Benton

Unique isn't the right word. The problem is that no matter how interesting your message is, there is a fairly high likelihood your message simply won't get read. I found that using a random word generator worked pretty good for subject lines.

I can almost guarantee you that your message will get read, all you need to do is add a 'RE:' before the message and she will think that she has replied or you replied etc, trust me on that... I have loads of these little tricks.

Bravo claims a similar response rate. Several guys at stylelife and pickup artist forum claim similar rates, in fact.

What nobody is telling us is that no matter how good the divorce email works (or whatever variation you use) lack of attractive personality will show through after about two emails and your success rate will be back down around 1%. If you're successful at dating, you will be successful, regardless of being at a bar, club or website. If you're not successful, your likely not going to be any more successful online than you are in person.

Agreed.

I don't use this technique or follow those guys so I couldn't comment...

I don't follow the PUA circuit anymore after I realised that it is built up on 'living in the now' as opposed to building the foundations for the rest of your life. I studied PUA for a long time and then stopped for 3 months and had to almost start from scratch again, I had forgotten almost everything, most guys throughout the forums say the same thing... you have to keep doing it all the time or you wil just forget it all. But I guess that's the same with most things in life...

I think it's far better to build up your personal development and your own inner self first before trying all the lines and fake stuff. And yes, before anyone starts... I know that the fake stuff does get you women, but I also know that if you don't have the inner strength to back it up, 2 weeks later, the women see the real you and realise that they have been tricked...

I've been doing this for 6 years now and although I'm still a long way from guru, I'm pretty sure the path that I am now on is the right one... PUA will never see it out in the long run unless they start to put the emphasis more onto the inner as opposed to the outer.

[Sarah Wilson]

Originally Posted by ultimate

I am pulling my hair out as it seems like I am not getting much progress

I wanna find someone like I did before, have a fun chat, then webcam chat and then meet where the atmosphere is absolutely electric!!!

the best thing ever!

aaahhhhhh!!!!!!!

Oh yes,I can definitely relate to this.

And almost nothing's for free when you want to initiate communication. At first, I tried signing up thinking twas for free, then when you try to email or communicate with someone, the screen pops up with, "Subscribe for like, $20, yada yada...

And be careful with some of those dating sites which may be scams. Heard OkCupid is free though. Greatboyfriends has a nice crowd, but you have to pay $20 to email someone. It's good because some of their friends recommend them to you to be a good catch!

[billionairekid]

I'm honestly surprised that I haven't seen this listed on here yet as advice: make sure your profile is promoting you!!! You need to prove to these women that you're worth their time. They are getting messaged by 100's of guys each week if not each day. They have dozens and dozens of emails to sort through. Your message is important but I've found that the message content wasn't as important as what your profile says about you.

In the online world it's all about sales. The only way women can tell if they want to know you is by judging your profile and how you make them feel through messaging.

[billionairekid]

Originally Posted by neilward2

I can almost guarantee you that your message will get read, all you need to do is add a 'RE:' before the message and she will think that she has replied or you replied etc, trust me on that... I have loads of these little tricks.




Agreed.

I don't use this technique or follow those guys so I couldn't comment...

I don't follow the PUA circuit anymore after I realised that it is built up on 'living in the now' as opposed to building the foundations for the rest of your life. I studied PUA for a long time and then stopped for 3 months and had to almost start from scratch again, I had forgotten almost everything, most guys throughout the forums say the same thing... you have to keep doing it all the time or you wil just forget it all. But I guess that's the same with most things in life...

I think it's far better to build up your personal development and your own inner self first before trying all the lines and fake stuff. And yes, before anyone starts... I know that the fake stuff does get you women, but I also know that if you don't have the inner strength to back it up, 2 weeks later, the women see the real you and realise that they have been tricked...

I've been doing this for 6 years now and although I'm still a long way from guru, I'm pretty sure the path that I am now on is the right one... PUA will never see it out in the long run unless they start to put the emphasis more onto the inner as opposed to the outer.

This is like debating which path is correct for you; inner-worker or outer-worker. In the end both paths lead to the same place. I use inner and outer as replacements for light and dark as those words spread too much negative attention in my opinion.

If you use outer techniques eventually the inside will adjust to your new success. If you use inner techniques your outer game is going to eventually adjust to what Pua's are talking about anyway.

The PUA path isn't wrong and it's not flawed. It's a particular path for a certain individual. I commend that you are working to figure out another path for a different type of individual. I dislike seeing people so openly bashing the PUA community when it's done so much for so many people (including myself).

[neilward2]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

I dislike seeing people so openly bashing the PUA community when it's done so much for so many people (including myself).

Perhaps my message came across slightly blurred...

I agree with you. The PUA community has done a lot for people including myself too! But, I have seen what it has become over the years, I used to be friends with all the top trainers... but I've since seen that people set up and become trainers for all the wrong reasons. I know, I have trained a few of the London based trainers! They don't practice what they preach and most have low self esteem and big AA. Exploitation is the biggest of the complaints that I have. You only have to look at Ross Jeffries blog:

PUA Fraud - to see that almost every MAJOR PUA company is on there, with some form of fraud or complaint against them. The community has been ruined by profiteering and a race to get the quickest results with the minimum effort - cutting out the long term foundations that need to be set out. It used to be about becoming the best that you could be as a man, now it's about making loads of cash $$$$ - And I think it is an absolute tragedy.

Either way, I'm not concerned with the PUA community anymore, I'm doing my own thing - which has got me burned by a lot of people within the community - but hey, I think you have to stick to your own path and just stay on it regardless of adversity.

[billionairekid]

Originally Posted by neilward2

Perhaps my message came across slightly blurred...

I agree with you. The PUA community has done a lot for people including myself too! But, I have seen what it has become over the years, I used to be friends with all the top trainers... but I've since seen that people set up and become trainers for all the wrong reasons. I know, I have trained a few of the London based trainers! They don't practice what they preach and most have low self esteem and big AA. Exploitation is the biggest of the complaints that I have. You only have to look at Ross Jeffries blog:

PUA Fraud - to see that almost every MAJOR PUA company is on there, with some form of fraud or complaint against them. The community has been ruined by profiteering and a race to get the quickest results with the minimum effort - cutting out the long term foundations that need to be set out. It used to be about becoming the best that you could be as a man, now it's about making loads of cash $$$$ - And I think it is an absolute tragedy.

Either way, I'm not concerned with the PUA community anymore, I'm doing my own thing - which has got me burned by a lot of people within the community - but hey, I think you have to stick to your own path and just stay on it regardless of adversity.

It sounds like what you're doing is really great for the dating community. These days the only things people care about are money and the magic pill unfortunately. I hope that you make a huge difference with your company and help a lot of guys in the process. I too thought about making my own company here in the states but have since declined due to the over-saturated nature of the market - in my opinion.

Besides being a huge proponent of building a strong foundation, something I can relate to with you, I didn't have anything proprietary to offer guys - minus a quicker way to absorb the information within the community.

[neilward2]

Thanks for the support buddy.

And you are 100% right about the market being over-saturated. It's the same here in London. My plan is to just keep building and sticking to my beliefs and core values and not worry about the BIG companies that are taking the market share. I'm a HUGE follower of the law of attraction so I know that I just have to keep going regardless! As the saying goes: if the dream is big enough, the facts won't matter.

Nice to talk with you and good luck for the future,

[JohnTrenor]

93% of all human communication is non-verbal. Only 7% is verbal. This is a powerful piece of info that can make or break your attempt to attract that beautiful girl anywhere. That said, it doesn’t matter how much of a smooth talker you are. It’s literally impossible to attract a woman with words alone! Does it mean that you can be attractive without saying a word, no but close to it?