masculinity and healing past wounds

[JaredR]

In 3rd and 4th grades, people often teased me and told me I looked like a girl. My first "girlfriend" told me that when she first saw me she didn't know if I was a boy or a girl. Then through middle school my one male friend and I were accused of being "butt buddies" and I was frequently asked if I was gay. The teasing continued into the first year of high school, but then it tapered off. But all through high school I was surrounded by female friends.

I'm in college now, and I still don't have any male friends. I am not gay if you're wondering, but I do have a problem with masculinity. I can't relate to other men at all, and I often feel very insecure around them, like I am back in grade school and facing my peers all over again. Often when I am talking to another male my voice softens and raises in pitch involuntarily, which is a nervous thing but makes me feel like a little kid again and totally emasculated.

How can I heal these feelings of rejection from my childhood? How can I develop a masculine self-image and feel like an equal member of my gender?

[Acting Like Godot]

Well, you could either:

(a) grow a moustache; carry weights; develop big biceps; drink plenty of beer; cuss a lot; take up karate; become a WWF fan; live promiscuously and have sex with as many women as you can; or

(b) just try to accept yourself as you are.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by JaredR

How can I heal these feelings of rejection from my childhood? How can I develop a masculine self-image and feel like an equal member of my gender?

You don't have to develop a masculine self-image to be an equal member of your gender. Androgyny is very cool. Being comfortable with who you are is more important than learning to be like others.

I was teased a lot at high school too. It dropped away in college (because I found more people like me) and further away still as I grew older. It's often hard to remember that high schoolers are young and immature, and don't behave like most people will as they grow up. By the time you are in your late 20s, you will still run into the occasional bully, but you will find they are despised by most people, and regarded as immature or controlling.

Just remember it's fine to be yourself. You're perfect as you are. Don't go changing.

[JaredR]

But I want to change. I want to feel like just as much of a man as the next guy. I don't hate myself for being "feminine," but now I am ready for something new.

[Lifeisamazing]

Originally Posted by JaredR

But I want to change. I want to feel like just as much of a man as the next guy. I don't hate myself for being "feminine," but now I am ready for something new.

Then take ideas from Acting Like Godot's post.

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by JaredR

But I want to change. I want to feel like just as much of a man as the next guy. I don't hate myself for being "feminine," but now I am ready for something new.

First thing I want to know is, who were your male role models growing up? Father, grandfather, brothers, who? It all started there, so that's where we have to start looking.

[NDN Scholar]

The only guys I hang out with are my cousins. All non-family friends of mine are girls. So I suppose I can relate to your position in a minimal sort of way?

How can you feel more like a man? If you have long hair, cut it short in a ceasar cut. If you can grow some facial hair, then grow a shade. I prefer shaving myself, but who knows, it might help you. But definitely, definitely, definitely start lifting weights. Go buy a pair of dumbbells, and google a good mix of weight lifting techniques. It'll take months for the effects to show, but just dedicate 30 minutes every 2nd night to weight-lifting.

And probably the most important thing: get a girlfriend if you don't have one. The feeling of having a woman there to support you, and knowing you are available to support your woman, it really gave me a good feeling. Made me feel good, both as a man and as a person. No idea why.

And as LostMyMap says, look to any male role models in life. My uncle and my grandfather were the greatest men I ever knew. You need to be strong, bro.

[Gabo]

Jared,

If you don't feel masculine around other guys, first you must recognize that your beliefs are causing you to feel this way, and that you can absolutely change yourself.

The best way for you to feel masculine around other guys is for you to feel more masculine around yourself. Try thinking of things you associate with male masculinity, and practice those things frequently.

Maybe you can start working out more or practice getting better at your favorite sport. Whatever activities you associate with masculinity will work. The more you practice doing things you perceive as masculine, the more masculine you will feel.

[dirtyhive]

WATCH men that you look up to.

Something that I do sometimes if I feel lame and weaksauce is I look up videos of actors who have a strong manly presence, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Daniel Craig as James Bond, etc. Or I read interviews with people who have masculine world-views, for example self-made millionaires. Surround yourself in that mindset and way of living and start doing the things they do. Literally copy them! To start with you will feel phony, like you're pretending to be someone else, but eventually you will start to assimilate some of it and do it without thinking, and then it will become part of you.

I had to retrain myself to do everything. People used to tell me at school that I had a ridiculous fruity walk, because I was so unconfident. I used to stare at the floor and avoid eye contact. Even a teacher once told me I had "very defensive body language". Boys would bully me, and I couldn't talk to girls. Plus I was very emotional and prone to cry about things that bothered me. So I know where you are coming from, believe me. I was Captain Wuss for many years, until I got fed up of it.

So I made some changes. I had my long hair cut off (my gf at the time begged me not to, because she loved it, but I finally plucked up the courage to do my own thing, and whaddaya know, she got over it...) and went for a short, spiky hairstyle. I took kung fu classes because I had a love of Jackie Chan movies. I stopped wearing my ridiculous baggy geek clothes (videogame T-shirts and Matrix trenchcoats) and started wearing stuff that fit me and flattered me. And most of all, I started WATCHING men and trying to do things that they did.

-Watch how men walk. Chin up, chest up, arms back. Don't keep crossing your arms and looking down. Be OPEN.
- Practice speaking more slowly and deeply. If you get it right, you can feel your voice starting from deep in your chest. And speak more loudly.
- Try to be less emotional and care less about everything. Teach yourself to kind of go "oh well, who gives a f***".
- Pick out some men that you really want to be like and start doing some of the things that they do, right now.
- The most important thing? Don't just do all of this when you are around other people!!!!!! Do it ALL THE TIME, even when you're alone. Practice being manly just when you're brushing your teeth, making the tea, making the bed, putting out the rubbish, everything. You'll make it part of YOU very quickly.

[JT]

no matter what anyone says, androgyny is not cool. start by lifting some weights and build your body up.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Androgyny is very cool.

I nominate this sentence THE WORST thing ever human being can say. Honestly. Worst advice ever...


Androgyny is bad because people were born into men and women, for men they become that way when they are afraid of masculinity, find it ''dirty''... We men have our roles and women have their roles, it's not bad..So learn your role. Not for others but yourself.

I used to feel similar way to you OP and best thing to happened for me was going to gym. Gave me more confidence and self-respect. Hearing the question ''is that guy or girl'' is one of few worst thing to hear for a man.

Also, pick up boxing, karate or whatever martial art. Helps with self-defense and respect.

Finding role models is great too, doesn't matter if it's Donald Trump, Richard Branson or Tyler Durden or Leonidas from 300 (one could choose better role model than him probably in my opinion).

Very good post by DirtyHive too!

[mindset]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Well, you could either:

(a) grow a moustache; carry weights; develop big biceps; drink plenty of beer; cuss a lot; take up karate; become a WWF fan; live promiscuously and have sex with as many women as you can; or

(b) just try to accept yourself as you are.

These really sound very sensible to me. You'll never feel that you're ever worth it if you don't actually accept who you are and what you can offer.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by JT

no matter what anyone says, androgyny is not cool. start by lifting some weights and build your body up.

Originally Posted by DBV

I nominate this sentence THE WORST thing ever human being can say. Honestly. Worst advice ever...

You guys need to get a broader social circle.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Androgyny is very cool.

Originally Posted by JT

androgyny is not cool.

You're both right.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Indiana

You guys need to get a broader social circle.

True, partly! lol

Now give me a few reasons why being androgynous is cool? You also find androgynous guys sexually attractive and would like to have a relationship with him? I doubt it 100 percent. I bet girls laugh about it when they chat... you may have done it too years ago.. And one thing for sure, if you see a androgynous guy, you don't respect him as a Man.

In my opinion you are just being friendly and too supportive trying to say ''it's okay you don't need to change''. The guy knows he needs to improve so why you don't actually help with something he could act on.. Believing that you are good just the way you are is childish, you don't take responsibility for getting better.

I have been in his position few years ago, I'm still on my way to fix it. But the fact is, you have to accept the fact that you suck (in whatever, you fat, you skinny, you don't know how to do something etc). Then take responsibility and act on improving it (if you can, I have a big nose, but I stopped worrying about it because there is nothing I can do to change it). Once you are on the way, then you are doing good, you are enough and you are getting better.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by DBV

Now give me a few reasons why being androgynous is cool? You also find androgynous guys sexually attractive and would like to have a relationship with him? I doubt it 100 percent. I bet girls laugh about it when they chat... you may have done it too years ago.. And one thing for sure, if you see a androgynous guy, you don't respect him as a Man.

In my opinion you are just being friendly and too supportive trying to say ''it's okay you don't need to change''. The guy knows he needs to improve so why you don't actually help with something he could act on.. Believing that you are good just the way you are is childish, you don't take responsibility for getting better.

Thanks for telling me what my preferences are, but actually, you're wrong: I have dated very slim, long-haired, emotionally available guys who looked like boyish girls. Frankly, I find them hot. Lots of women do, from what I know from discussions with my friends. One of my friends always refers to my most androgynous ex as 'that beautiful, beautiful man.' He was prettier than I am. Great guy too. Loved to talk philosophy and art. Hot.

My partner cries if he gets emotional, loves to cook, and cuts hair for a living, and he is AMAZING. A much better man than some of the more traditionally manly manly masculine men I've dated. He has loads more female friends than guys, although has good guy mates too. Once men stop being immature teenagers, often they can handle friendships with other men who don't happen to be into football-and-beer-and-swinging-dicks.

I actually think that encouraging people to be confident in who they are and not to let fear and increasingly outdated stereotypes tell them there's something 'wrong' with them IS helpful. But there you go. Call me crazy.

[curiouslyrandom]

The two most androgynous guys I've been with were the best lovers I've had so far, hands down. They weren't trying to prove they were men, they just focused making sure I had an amazing time.

DBV, I'm guessing you aren't from the US? Do you live in a country where men are expected to be aggressive and women are expected to be passive?

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

The two most androgynous guys I've been with were the best lovers I've had so far, hands down. They weren't trying to prove they were men, they just focused making sure I had an amazing time.

DBV, I'm guessing you aren't from the US? Do you live in a country where men are expected to be aggressive and women are expected to be passive?

Clue: his location.

[billionairekid]

Can I ask, jared, what do you think is going to change if you become more masculine?

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Thanks for telling me what my preferences are, but actually, you're wrong: I have dated very slim, long-haired, emotionally available guys who looked like boyish girls. Frankly, I find them hot. Lots of women do, from what I know from discussions with my friends. One of my friends always refers to my most androgynous ex as 'that beautiful, beautiful man.' He was prettier than I am. Great guy too. Loved to talk philosophy and art. Hot.

My partner cries if he gets emotional, loves to cook, and cuts hair for a living, and he is AMAZING. A much better man than some of the more traditionally manly manly masculine men I've dated. He has loads more female friends than guys, although has good guy mates too. Once men stop being immature teenagers, often they can handle friendships with other men who don't happen to be into football-and-beer-and-swinging-dicks.

I actually think that encouraging people to be confident in who they are and not to let fear and increasingly outdated stereotypes tell them there's something 'wrong' with them IS helpful. But there you go. Call me crazy.

Fair enough. There are androgynous women who find them attractive or even masculine women who like feminine men. It's all about polarity.

Have you read The Way of Superior Man. It's a book for men but great for women too if they want to understand men. Read it, it goes deep into polarity (masculine, feminine). Androgynous

Call me crazy and pig but those old stereotypes worked for the most part. You wouldn't be here without them. And women themselves are actually saying Where are Real Men..

Question: You think it's great to have a man who couldn't defend you because he was real skinny and didn't know how to fight? You find it sexy. No one is talking about being macho and dick-swinging..just about quiet confidence. Which is what bulking up and taking up a martial art would do for a skinny guy.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by curiouslyrandom

The two most androgynous guys I've been with were the best lovers I've had so far, hands down. They weren't trying to prove they were men, they just focused making sure I had an amazing time.

DBV, I'm guessing you aren't from the US? Do you live in a country where men are expected to be aggressive and women are expected to be passive?

I can't guess how feminine you are yourself. Maybe you are androgynous too and find them hot because of it. To each his own! I find feminine girls sexy!!

No one tells women to be passive. But I notice a tendency for very feminine women to be so. And I like that. There are polarities for a reason. I don't find overly self-reliant women very hot. I had dated one, even tho she was physically sexy as hell, but it didn't work out... Women can go to war if they want... doesn't mean they all should.

And I also think that women start to reject femininity themselves... just because society now tells you you must be very independent, it doesn't mean you should be afraid to become a housewife. As if being a great housewife is a shame and useless. It is. A good Man will always appreciate his woman being companion who helps him...

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by JaredR

In 3rd and 4th grades, people often teased me and told me I looked like a girl. My first "girlfriend" told me that when she first saw me she didn't know if I was a boy or a girl. Then through middle school my one male friend and I were accused of being "butt buddies" and I was frequently asked if I was gay. The teasing continued into the first year of high school, but then it tapered off. But all through high school I was surrounded by female friends.

I'm in college now, and I still don't have any male friends. I am not gay if you're wondering, but I do have a problem with masculinity. I can't relate to other men at all, and I often feel very insecure around them, like I am back in grade school and facing my peers all over again. Often when I am talking to another male my voice softens and raises in pitch involuntarily, which is a nervous thing but makes me feel like a little kid again and totally emasculated.

How can I heal these feelings of rejection from my childhood? How can I develop a masculine self-image and feel like an equal member of my gender?

Sounds like a classic case that could be helped by EMDR. Go see a psychologist. There are solutions.

[Alison Jenkins]

I'm with you on the quiet voice. A few years back a psychologist in a training session said "speak up" and then went on in front of the class of 50 to ask when in my life had I not had a voice. She knew nothing about me except I had a quiet voice!!! Yet she was spot on as I had kept silent for many years. Since then I've learned to consciously speak up louder in situations that I used to have a very quiet voice. It's certainly worked for me although at times I slip back into a quieter voice but I am aware of it and then alter my voice.

Alison

[DBV]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Sounds like a classic case that could be helped by EMDR. Go see a psychologist. There are solutions.

Been there, done that.. sit down and talk... takes forever... better take action in the real world not your head only. Gaining experience and achieving something will give benefit one more than just talks...

Why people go labeling and giving ADD, OCD and other stuff and saying it's ok to be so just go to specialist... it YOUR responsibility to change.. psychologists are friends for money...

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by DBV

Been there, done that.. sit down and talk... takes forever... better take action in the real world not your head only. Gaining experience and achieving something will give benefit one more than just talks...

Why people go labeling and giving ADD, OCD and other stuff and saying it's ok to be so just go to specialist... it YOUR responsibility to change.. psychologists are friends for money...

zuh? You clearly didn't do EMDR.

Good psychologists don't just talk with you forever. They figure out the issue and then apply a scientifically established therapy.

The original poster seems to be indicating that due to childhood trauma he feels timid, nervous and anxious. There are clear therapies that can be applied to get over these emotions.

EMDR is probably one of the most effective and quick which mostly involves silent (i.e. no talking) reprocessing of emotions and traumatic thoughts/memories.

There is also progressive desensitization which is a systematic method that isn't based on talking or hearing someone talk.

The issue that the original poster described is a classic case that is probably amenable to various scientifically proven therapies - therapies that are so simple and effective but most people just don't know about them.

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[DBV]

Originally Posted by yossarian

zuh? You clearly didn't do EMDR.

Good psychologists don't just talk with you forever. They figure out the issue and then apply a scientifically established therapy.

The original poster seems to be indicating that due to childhood trauma he feels timid, nervous and anxious. There are clear therapies that can be applied to get over these emotions.

EMDR is probably one of the most effective and quick which mostly involves silent (i.e. no talking) reprocessing of emotions and traumatic thoughts/memories.

There is also progressive desensitization which is a systematic method that isn't based on talking or hearing someone talk.

The issue that the original poster described is a classic case that is probably amenable to various scientifically proven therapies - therapies that are so simple and effective but most people just don't know about them.

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tons of guys complain about having been picked on in childhood... most of very successful people too.. and that is what drove them.. they did something to change it not went to psychologist...

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by DBV

Tons of guys complain about having been picked on in childhood... most of very successful people too.. and that is what drove them.. they did something to change it not went to psychologist...

Going to a psychologist IS doing something to change it.

Being picked on is traumatic for a child who has trouble defending himself and whose brain is not fully developed.

As an adult you can let go of these anxieties using scientifically proven therapies. I fail to see why this is bad.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by DBV

Fair enough. There are androgynous women who find them attractive or even masculine women who like feminine men. It's all about polarity.

Wrong again. I am a feminine woman.

Have you read The Way of Superior Man. It's a book for men but great for women too if they want to understand men. Read it, it goes deep into polarity (masculine, feminine). Androgynous

Yes, I have. I think it is pretty outdated.

Question: You think it's great to have a man who couldn't defend you because he was real skinny and didn't know how to fight? You find it sexy. No one is talking about being macho and dick-swinging..just about quiet confidence. Which is what bulking up and taking up a martial art would do for a skinny guy.

I have no respect for violence, so your first example means nothing to me.

Quiet confidence, though, I love that. But it's nothing to do with being able to throw a punch.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Wrong again. I am a feminine woman.


Yes, I have. I think it is pretty outdated.


I have no respect for violence, so your first example means nothing to me.

Quiet confidence, though, I love that. But it's nothing to do with being able to throw a punch.

How is it outdated? It's evergreen content just like Steve Pavlina writes.. you can find similarities in their thoughts..

Just because you dont respect violence doesn't mean it doesnt exist. If you were attacked would you want your guy to be able to defend you or not? Or he should just say please lets discuss this rationally???

[votoshka]

Originally Posted by DBV

How is it outdated? It's evergreen content just like Steve Pavlina writes.. you can find similarities in their thoughts..

Just because you dont respect violence doesn't mean it doesnt exist. If you were attacked would you want your guy to be able to defend you or not? Or he should just say please lets discuss this rationally???

Personally, if I was attacked I'd like to be able to defend myself (but if I had a guy with me I wouldn't want him to stand around all uselessly either) .

But defending someone against an attack, is different to being a violent person or an aggressive person, isn't it?