masculinity and healing past wounds

[DBV]

Originally Posted by votoshka

Personally, if I was attacked I'd like to be able to defend myself (but if I had a guy with me I wouldn't want him to stand around all uselessly either) .

But defending someone against an attack, is different to being a violent person or an aggressive person, isn't it?

I was never talking about violence and aggression.. I'm talking about being a Man, BEING CAPABLE of supporting, defending for your family, friends! That's why every feminine or skinny guys should go to gym and learn to at least box or something. Not to go out and beat people.. no one talks about it...

[Acting Like Godot]

How often have you had to do that, DBV? I mean, defend yourself or your family or friends against some kind of physical attack.

Personally, I can't recall when I have needed to do something like that. But perhaps you do. It may be a reflection of the kinds of places that you frequent.

Now, for Jaredr, the thing is - based on his original post, I don't think that he, for one, is facing the challenge of having to defend himself or anyone else from physical attacks.

Me, the kinds of attacks I face most often are ...... bitchy office emails and Internet posts. I can handle those, no need for big muscles or a black belt in karate.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

How often have you had to do that, DBV? I mean, defend yourself or your family or friends against some kind of physical attack.

Personally, I can't recall when I have needed to do something like that. But perhaps you do. It may be a reflection of the kinds of places that you frequent.

Now, for Jaredr, the thing is - based on his original post, I don't think that he, for one, is facing the challenge of having to defend himself or anyone else from physical attacks.

Me, the kinds of attacks I face most often are ...... bitchy office emails and Internet posts. I can handle those, no need for big muscles or a black belt in karate.

There were a few times when I was attacked on the street for nothing. Once with a friend going home from concert, in a city center. Other time a was just walking from shop in a small town and a car stopped and guys tried to beat me up. Both times a managed to escape.. And that happened just because they didn't like the way I looked..It might happen again, it may not. But why not improve myself and be better.

And OP may not have to defend himself but he has to become more masculine. Gaining muscle will help not only with becoming stronger physically but mentally too. If it was easy everyone would walk with Adonis' body... I notice that people think everyone who trains in a gym is either dumb idiot or aggressive violent person.. Open your eyes people.. it's not about being aggressive, it's about being capable of being that if circumstances call for it..

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

How often have you had to do that, DBV? I mean, defend yourself or your family or friends against some kind of physical attack.

Personally, I can't recall when I have needed to do something like that. But perhaps you do. It may be a reflection of the kinds of places that you frequent.

This was what I was going to ask in response as well. I have never been in a situation that required physical violence as a response, either from myself or from someone who I was with who wanted to 'defend' me. Given that I've gotten through 34 years without it (which includes the most vulnerable years for women), I'm guessing I may well get through my entire life that way.

I'm all for being in good physical shape - however you like that shape to be, whether man or woman - but nothing about that is about being some kind of polarised sexual archetype.

[DBV]

Originally Posted by Indiana

This was what I was going to ask in response as well. I have never been in a situation that required physical violence as a response, either from myself or from someone who I was with who wanted to 'defend' me. Given that I've gotten through 34 years without it (which includes the most vulnerable years for women), I'm guessing I may well get through my entire life that way.

I'm all for being in good physical shape - however you like that shape to be, whether man or woman - but nothing about that is about being some kind of polarised sexual archetype.

So you don't feel anything primal when seeing a man with great body? (doesn't mean you act on it, just feel..) I guarantee that every guy feels something very primal when he sees female with awesome curves. Men are stronger physically or at least should be in the case of skinny men... Polarity exists...You just don't want to admit it. No need to make women the same as men. Equality doesn't mean being the same!

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by DBV

So you don't feel anything primal when seeing a man with great body? (doesn't mean you act on it, just feel..) I guarantee that every guy feels something very primal when he sees female with awesome curves. Men are stronger physically or at least should be in the case of skinny men... Polarity exists...You just don't want to admit it. No need to make women the same as men. Equality doesn't mean being the same!

Beefcakes – guys who look like they spend half the week at the gym – actually turn me off. I find a toned body attractive (who doesn't?) but it's not a central aspect of attraction for me. It's not a make-or-break aspect. Lots of other things are more important.

I don't accept your 'shoulds' simply because you can't extend a generalisation to include everyone. I am not arguing that EVERYONE should be androgynous. I'm just saying it's nothing to be ashamed of if it's your natural state of being.

[ThoughtAddict]

Originally Posted by DBV

There were a few times when I was attacked on the street for nothing. Once with a friend going home from concert, in a city center. Other time a was just walking from shop in a small town and a car stopped and guys tried to beat me up. Both times a managed to escape.. And that happened just because they didn't like the way I looked..It might happen again, it may not. But why not improve myself and be better.

And OP may not have to defend himself but he has to become more masculine. Gaining muscle will help not only with becoming stronger physically but mentally too. If it was easy everyone would walk with Adonis' body... I notice that people think everyone who trains in a gym is either dumb idiot or aggressive violent person.. Open your eyes people.. it's not about being aggressive, it's about being capable of being that if circumstances call for it..

Being able to defend oneself is not a function of size or appearing masculine. In fact, some of the best fighters I've faced weren't all that masculine looking. Technique goes much, much further than untrained force. I, myself, used to look like a matchstick. I've since muscled up significantly. Back then, though, I learned how to defend myself against folks twice my size. In sparring, I would often be matched against bigger guys and have to find a way to beat them.
Also, one of the top fighters in our gym was a 125 lb, quick, precise, aggressive girl who regularly beat the 200+ lb meatheads who came in thinking that force = power. If you're saying that people must appear masculine to defend themselves, you're dead wrong.

Also, saying that girls who like androgynous looking guys must be androgynous or masculine is pretty narrow-minded and (from my own prior experience) dead wrong.

All that aside, JaredR said he wants to develop a masculine self-image. So, the issue isn't how he actually appears to others, but how he appears to himself. The prior advice of modeling others is really solid advice. Find guys you consider masculine and figure out which traits or actions make them masculine. Figure out how to create those traits in yourself. It may have nothing to do with the gym.
Martial arts may help, as they do improve overall confidence. So does an inordinate amount of skill in any number of areas. They did good for me, as did a moderate level of bulking up and learning how to wear a suit like a pro. Good cologne helps too... as girly as it sounds, you can really set your own mood with scent. If you smell like your idea of a masculine guy, it'll linger with you all day.