Bullying
 

I recently witnessed a bullying-type episode at my club. I'd like to recount it and get comments/opinions. The actors:

wimp: skinny 18-year-old redheaded male being bullied
alpha male: mid-30's guy
wife: married to alpa male
girlfriend: young 18-20 year old girl
pixie: tiny but very athletic 15-year-old girl
giant: hulking early 40's male with martial arts training

So I was at my club and I saw wimp sitting with a group of people. He had recently posted on FB about trying a vegan diet and I love to talk about food so I went over to talk to him about it. As he tried to talk with me, alpha male kept smacking him upside the head with an empty soda bottle. Wimp protested that he was non-violent and wasn't going to retaliate. The other people around were generally laughing at his expense. Girlfriend occasionally threw another soda bottle at wimp and then it would be a game for the crowd to retrieve the bottle and get it back to girlfriend so she could throw it at him again. Wife made some comment about how if he was really bothered by the behavior he would just go away, and how pathetic he was for sticking around to take the abuse. Pixie got in on the action by beaning wimp with a soda bottle, which bounced impressively off his forehead and landed back in her hand. She got massive kudos from the group for this feat, including from wimp, who was trying to be good-natured about the whole thing.

This whole scene upset me a fair degree, not just the violence but the malicious undertone to the events. The message being sent was "we don't like you and we wish you'd go away." I made some comment like "you guys are mean" which did not deter them one bit of course. Later I asked the club organizer if there were any rules against bullying. His response was "no, but we have karma." Okay then.

So what do you think wimp should have done in this situation? What would you have done as a bystander to this event?

What the heck kind of club is this, Lauxa?????

This is the saddest thing I've read today. :mad:

Wimp stuck his ground, so I admire him for that. Everyone else in the room is a coward. I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation and it bothers me to a degree.

Hmm.

The situation itself is obviously very sad and clearly many of the people involved have some deep problems... you see it a lot in lower-quality bars an clubs.

But here's a different perspective to consider, why didn't he just get out of there?

I wonder why people hang around people that are obviously not their vibrational matches.

Why does it even matter to him that these people accept him? This seems like a pretty trashy club to me. These people wouldn't even make good acquaintances, let alone good friends.

In such a situation, unless you're being forced to be with these people or something, there's little point in even engaging with them.

And what the heck were you doing in a place like this anyway, Lauxa? xD

This is why it's important to hang around the right people.

When I look disapproving, I look very disapproving.

I would have given my most disapproving look .... to the wimp.

I would have said loudly, "Why do you lack self-respect? And keep yourself in the company of such people?"

I think I might have said something similar .... to myself.

Exactly!

I can understand standing his ground, for sure, but there's a difference between standing your ground and allowing people to **** all over you, and it looks like he did this more than give any kind of powerful message to the bullies.

I'd have at least asserted myself...but then, some peoples self-esteem ain't too high. Time for him to work on this I'd say. I would probably also not stand around and just watch someone get treated like this. Power in numbers means that the more people around him on his side, the less the bullies will bully.

It's always easy to think about it when you're not the one experiencing it though.

It was my juggle club. There are probaby 20-30 regulars and many are very wonderful people. It has been a great club every other time I went. Excepting giant, these are people I haven't hung out with as much, they kind of have their own little clique I guess. I approached the circle because I wanted to talk to wimp, who I guess was unwelcome. I stayed as long as I did because I was fascinated by how the scene was playing out and wondering what to do. This was my first experience of this sort in over 2 years of attending, so I was quite dismayed to see it happen there.

Well, if it's a juggle club, shouldn't the wimp have just caught all the bottles before they hit his head, and started juggling them?

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a juggle club?

LOL, I think giant made that comment as well.

Yeah... I feel sorry for the wimp, because the others sound like they were being awful, but personal experience has taught me that someone cannot bully you unless you are a willing victim.

I mean, you do get bullies picking on much littler kids sometimes, but generally it's teenagers or adults in the workplace acting this way towards their peers, and it is social fear, low self-esteem or desperation not to be invisible making the victim 'take it'.

I was bullied and I didn't have any coping skills because my parents taught me to be quiet and meek and rely on the approval of others. When I have kids, I'm gonna raise them to be able to stand up to any bully.

Perhaps you can let wimp know that you think he's a nice guy, and that the others were being douchebags, and remind him that he doesn't need to have their attention or approval by accepting their douchebaggery.

How would you have asserted yourself? It's pretty hard to do in a 4-on-1 situation. I remember now there was another enormous guy there. I really think the big guys would have reacted if the situation had gotten really violent, although they would not intercede in such a petty conflict. How would you have reacted as a bystander?

Many of you seem to think he should have just left the situation. At what point should he have left? What words and demeanor do you imagine him having? Is that taking the easy way out?

Maybe I could have said something like "Wimp is a precious and valued human being. When you hurt wimp, I feel disturbed because _____." Well, I read that 3-part pattern is good for fostering dialog, don't know exactly why I feel disturbed though. Because I have some shred of empathy probably. Not for the bullies though, hah!

Like I said, it's always easier to speculate about what I 'would have' done in that situation.

To me though, as a bystander I probably would have stepped in and made a loud noise to get their attention like "Öi" (aussie terminology)...and made eye contact with the ones doing the majority of the bullying whilst saying (what's going on here...why are you being this way to someone who isn't bothering you at all but minding their own business, don't you have anything better to do?" (I've done this before btw, with a boy who was getting hassled by some african boys at the library one day...the librarians just pretended it wasn't happening, like everyone else, and didn't step in!

I don't think I would have said stuff like what you suggested as that would only cause them to laugh and turn the focus of their attention onto me. Instead I would be saying something like "this is my club, and bullying isn't tolerated here, so I would like it if you leave if this is the way you are gonna behave"...and maintain eye contact with an authoritative voice that means business. I would not be gentle about it, but I also would not be too aggressive...just definite in my request for them to leave if they aren't gonna stop it!

I know it sounds easy me saying it, but if you have the right attitude in your voice and lay down the law of how it's gonna be in YOUR club, then they will listen (hopefully). If not...call the friggin' police on them for aggravated assault!

Or start throwing the juggling balls at the bullies... :rolleyes:

Lauxa, are the owners of the club aware of the incident? I would speak to the owner and see how willing they would be in fostering an zero-tolerance atmosphere for this sort of behaviour. I personally wouldn't kick someone (or in this case a group) out the first time they behaved in such a fashion. I'd attempt to talk to them and warn then about their behaviour. And then kick them out if they refuse to cooperate.

If the owners will not cooperate, I'd just move on with my life and find a new place to hang out in.

Wow, this all sounds like playground behaviour from grade school!

I didn't see where giant had a role? Alpha isn't really an alpha. He is an alpha wannabe who is really just a jerk. You know what that makes wife then...

Wimp is in a tough situation because if he takes it, he plays into their cruelty. If he leaves, he is branded coward or whatever. And he isn't in a position to physically fight off jerk boy either, even if he wanted to. Interesting how that type of behaviour is contagious. Pixie probably would not have done it by herself.

If it were me, I probably would have got into it with jerk boy, just because. But that probably isn't the recommended solution either. Tough call on how much you would step in. Wimp is an adult, he needs to figure it out for himself at some point. Too bad adults are acting like children, but he needs to gain the personal power so that people won't even start that crap with him. That's a whole other thread.

I guess an alternative would be to say to wimp, "I want to talk to you about something, can we go over there, where things are quieter?" Try to extract him from the crowd without addressing the actual events. You can't win by taking on the bullies verbally, so don't try. Maybe you and he can start your own club, and pick the members you want to be in it.

The wimp should have picked out the behaviour of the bullies and told them they shouldn't be acting in this way, and he should not have wanted any approval from them whatsoever.

It is really quite tough when he's only 18 and they're 30. Because he might think that there's some truth to what they're saying, being younger.

It sounds like he was just in an awkward situation entirely..

Since you've witnessed this, I think you tell the wimp that he shouldn't hang around with them and take this abuse, just avoid them entirely, and also tell the bullies they shouldn't pick on meek & harmless people

Keep a carton of eggs somewhere close. Next time it happens start throwing eggs at the abusers. (rotten eggs even better). what's the worst that could happen? Everyone stinks.
Or let off a stink bomb.
Or get a giant water pistol and start squirting.

My kids and I have been talking about this kind of stuff a lot lately with all the recent goings on and they tell me how difficult it is to have some one intercede on your behalf when you are being bullied. The kids tell me that to have someone else "stick up for you", and in your case, a male having to be defended by a woman, just eventually makes things worse for the "victim".

To somehow alert the "wimp" of where to find the resources to learn how to deal with this sort of stuff and to also let him know that he is not alone may be the best course of action for you to take.

This doesn't even sound real to me. Did you just make this **** up? Is this fiction? Because if it actually DID happen for real, then that is one ****ed up group of people in that club.

I would have been more perplexed by the whole episode than angry. Which means I'd have wanted to just talk to one of them and get to know them a little bit more. If it's real, there's more to that story. My curiosity supersedes my ability to be angered in this situation.

I was actually thinking this on the way home from work today, and I agree. It's probably best to just detach from the sitch and leave it to the person being bullied to learn to stand on their own...otherwise it is just rescuing them and perpetuating their victim state, rather than allowing them to come to the solution in their own way at the right time.

Learning to detach in life is a huge lesson. Non-interference with someone elses lesson is important I think.

Learning to detach while still being available for support and comfort. Oiy vey - :rolleyes: such a hard thing to do!! but yes, soooo important!

:D Granting people the freedom to choose to feel bad. I think especially for women -- we're taught that we're not allowed to be detached! :p like it's our responsibility to prevent people from feeling bad. :D :rolleyes:

I know your trying to describe the situation but you called him a wimp and just about everyone in the thread started call him the wimp. except for the op everyone was picking on him and the manager did not care.

I know Dr. Phil did a show on Bullying and he said that if the bystanders do nothings they are just as guilty as the bully. Martin Luther King said its not the few bad people that do harm its all the good people that standby and do nothing that is how evil is allow to happen.

I think a lot of people don't want to get involved because they afraid that they might be bully too and there is the mob or herd mentality that kicks in when whole groups of people join in.

I afraid there are going to be more Callinbines and people going postal and more suicide if bullying is not stop. Most people don't understand the effect bullying can have on a person. when people see these tragedies they shake there head and say how come these things happen. I can only say I have felt suicidal and homicidal at times because of bullying.

one more thing I know a lot of you don't understand why he did not stand up for himself. it hard to understand but if you been bully a lot you feel worthless and some time being pick on is not as bad being total alone. I know I may sound like I'm over reacting and I know everyone has been bully at one time or another but If you have no friends to tell you they are jerk and there is nothing wrong with you and everyone just lets it happens you feel that there is something wrong with you.

This was a HUGE thing for me to overcome being meek and quiet, reluctant to speak my mind incase I upset someone...to learning to let myself say what I needed to say and allow the other person to be upset about it. It gets easier the more you practise I've found, but I am still wary of the rescuer role I can fall into if I'm not vigilant.

My previous comment might seem tongue in cheek, but I was thinking along the lines of dispersing the crowd, or distracting them, like you would shoo a flock of birds.

I strongly feel that the bullies actions should be punished. There should be a consequence. Next time it happens, and it probably will if their egos were inflated after this incident:

1. call the cops right away. you never know it might escalate and the big guy might have a baseball bat in his car.
2. take pictures . you need evidence. (think like a detective).
3. ask the cops to punish them somehow
4. give pictures (without victim) to club owner and demand they be banned from the club. Maybe he can post the pictures to humiliate the thugs.
5. tell the victim to carry mase so he can defend himself next time.

This was my initial response, and I perceived Lauxa as being the wimp for not stepping in. Now, I'm a bit confused to be honest, as to what is the best way to handle such a situation.

If you step in and help, and not just stand around and stare without taking action, you may be depriving the 'victim' of the opportunity to stand up for themselves, finally and reinforce their victim mentality. Then again, if you do that it does seem like it is just passivity which perpetuates bullying?? Now I'm really confused.

Is detachment the best way to deal with this or do we have an obligation to band together and at least surround the person with 'numbers' of people so they can feel supported to stand up to the bully? If a person is so low in self-esteem it makes it very hard for them to stand up for themself, as part of them thinks they deserve to be treated this way. it's a bit of a catch twenty two as I see it.

I'm sorry that you have felt that way Scott, I can only imagine how it must have felt.

In the case that Lauxa describes, I wonder though if the boy, the "wimp", did not feel like he was being bullied? Its quite possible that he was "laughing it off" because he was not offended by the others behavior.

I watch my twelve year old son and his friends and how the interact with each other and my word! They are snarky and pushy and call each other names and boy! they just LOVE each other to bits! :D