Offering to pay

[danas]

Hi everyone. Something that bugs me about a guy Im seeing and I dont know how to address it.
I am pretty conservative when it comes to certain things.
Like many women, I want to feel taken care of by my man.
i have been seeing this guy. We have a lot of fun together. We have deep and meaningful conversations, and there seems to be a strong emotional connection growing. He is honest, caring fun and we are very attracted to each-other. He calls often, expresses his feeling etc...
We gone out dancing, to hear music, to eat to movies etc..
But ......not once has he picked up the bill. I always take out my wallet, and he just lets me pay half.
This is a huge turn of for me. Sure I can afford the things we do, probably more then he can (but he doesnt know that), I dont need him to pay, but still, it would be very nice if he did to. At least once in a while....
Or maybe I expect too much?
I cant exactly bring it up.

Another thing is that he is quite a few years younger, so this might be the cause of this... That said he is more emotionally mature than most guys Ive met. I told him that this worries me b/c I am at a different stage of my life. And he said he wants a stable intimate relationship too. That part I'll just have to go with the flow, but the part about not treating me out, ever, gets to me.
Thoughts?

[Federer]

He sounds, He is absolutely your right partner. Why are you having second thoughts for your monetary concerns? There is nothing to think or judge less or more about this. Please, go with this man without any kind of worthless worry. Enjoy!

Sometimes you pay your bills and sometime let him. But be willing. Don't make it turn out game.

[danas]

Originally Posted by Federer

He sounds, He is absolutely your right partner. Why are you having second thoughts for your monetary concerns? There is nothing to think or judge less or more about this. Please, go with this man without any kind of worthless worry. Enjoy!

Sometimes you pay your bills and sometime let him. But be willing. Don't make it turn out game.

Thank you. Hmmm... I guess I am conservative. This money thing does bug me. But you gave me a thought. Next time we go out, Ill pick up the bill instead of splitting it with him. That'll teach him!

[Federer]

Originally Posted by danas

Thank you. Hmmm... I guess I am conservative. This money thing does bug me. But you gave me a thought. Next time we go out, Ill pick up the bill instead of splitting it with him. That'll teach him!

Sorry for not adding something. I did not noticed this conservative. I was thinking that you are conservative on your thoughts. But it is not now i see. It is just your mere misunderstanding.

A conservative woman never become so willing to pay bill. And look at yourself, you have been so willing. and

[180]

I tend to believe that guys who don't pay are usually more long term thinkers and "guarded".

This is probably a good thing if you're looking for a long term mate. You wouldn't exactly want a guy who's willing to splurge on any girl for a date.

However, you probably want to know that he's willing to spend on YOU. And that you are special and he's willing to take care of you.

But keep in mind if a guy pays there are pros and cons to that kind of behavior.

Let's say he does pay, that can mean

1) He's traditional, which means he might adhere to usual roles of male/female subservience.
2) He feels like he's trying to woo you. Or impress you.

If he doesn't pay

1) He feels you are equals. That can be good or bad, depends on you
2) He still feels you are in beginning parts of the relationship
3) He's poor
4) That's just how he does things or he's been taught in this modern "femist" soceity. (YOU WOMEN CREATED THIS! not us! if men still were dominating we would buy you everything! lol)


In my relationships if I paid that means I was overwhelming infatuted with the girl. But even if I just met gorgeous girls just for a date... I would never pay. In fact, I would make her pay just because she'd expect it. No sister... just because you're pretty doesn't give you a free ride (not with me at least).

But I always paid for girls I was overwhelming infatuated over. Theres just 1 girl I can think I've done that for. But that's what you call "love" in the oxytocin sense of the word. I was an idiot then, but I would have cut off an arm for that girl... Too bad she was a ditz. anyways...

This is probably why you don't like the fact he pays right? Well I understand your feeling but it also means he's probably more logical and calculating with the relationship. That's actually better for you. You would never want a boyfriend or husband who's rash and easily jumps into relationships...

Well that depends on what you like.

[Cochonette]

Well, I guess the fact you're "conservative" negates anything I could say? Because I was going to be like, what on earth, if you have more money than he does, why would you expect him to ever pay the whole bill if you have never done so yourself? Unless this is a D/s relationship (maybe that's related... not sure how). :P

It's just a tradition, one which, as far as I know, only exists in our culture?

Just last night a friend of mine was complaining about how in the heterosexual world to which he belongs, the man is always expected to pay and to approach the woman, even by the most supposedly "independent" women.

As I don't belong to the heterosexual world, it's an issue I am happily free of.

[ginkgo]

I suggest that you try to become friends with anyone you are dating. Ask this guy if he is your friend. If he says no, then do not proceed. If he says yes, then tell him you are asking his advice as a friend. Then tell him that there is this guy... and the rest.

Now whatever his advice, follow it. If he says for now to forget it, then do that. He will have the best advice. But what if a guy is broke and you need to feel taken care of. Then look for another and make sure he has lots of MONEY.

[Federer]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I suggest that you try to become friends with anyone you are dating. Ask this guy if he is your friend. If he says no, then do not proceed. If he says yes, then tell him you are asking his advice as a friend. Then tell him that there is this guy... and the rest.

Now whatever his advice, follow it. If he says for now to forget it, then do that. He will have the best advice. But what if a guy is broke and you need to feel taken care of. Then look for another and make sure he has lots of MONEY.

Relationship based on money, i mean you are talking about be a money centered person?

[The Cloud]

At least he's not trying to buy you.

[danas]

Originally Posted by 180

I tend to believe that guys who don't pay are usually more long term thinkers and "guarded".

This is probably a good thing if you're looking for a long term mate. You wouldn't exactly want a guy who's willing to splurge on any girl for a date.

However, you probably want to know that he's willing to spend on YOU. And that you are special and he's willing to take care of you.

But keep in mind if a guy pays there are pros and cons to that kind of behavior.

Let's say he does pay, that can mean

1) He's traditional, which means he might adhere to usual roles of male/female subservience.
2) He feels like he's trying to woo you. Or impress you.

If he doesn't pay

1) He feels you are equals. That can be good or bad, depends on you
2) He still feels you are in beginning parts of the relationship
3) He's poor
4) That's just how he does things or he's been taught in this modern "femist" soceity. (YOU WOMEN CREATED THIS! not us! if men still were dominating we would buy you everything! lol)


In my relationships if I paid that means I was overwhelming infatuted with the girl. But even if I just met gorgeous girls just for a date... I would never pay. In fact, I would make her pay just because she'd expect it. No sister... just because you're pretty doesn't give you a free ride (not with me at least).

But I always paid for girls I was overwhelming infatuated over. Theres just 1 girl I can think I've done that for. But that's what you call "love" in the oxytocin sense of the word. I was an idiot then, but I would have cut off an arm for that girl... Too bad she was a ditz. anyways...

This is probably why you don't like the fact he pays right? Well I understand your feeling but it also means he's probably more logical and calculating with the relationship. That's actually better for you. You would never want a boyfriend or husband who's rash and easily jumps into relationships...

Well that depends on what you like.

Thanks for bringing light on this for me! Yes, he is definitely "more logical and calculating with the relationship". We even spoke about that last night.

These are all also probably true:

1) He feels you are equals. That can be good or bad, depends on you
2) He still feels you are in beginning parts of the relationship
3) He's poor
4) That's just how he does things or he's been taught in this modern "femist" soceity. (YOU WOMEN CREATED THIS! not us! if men still were dominating we would buy you everything! lol)

And if I am thinking long term, it bugs me that he is poor, and Im not. This kind of unbalance doesnt feel so great, although the more I think about it, the less it bothers me.

[ssandra]

I don't usually say this, but I agree with 180 here....

I think that either he has been "educated" about equal right and stuff and therefor thinks splitting the bill is how it is supposed to be done

Or he truly doesn't have that much money.

If it is the first one, talking in general about how you like a bit conservative men, who hold up coats, help you get seated etc might take care of it.

If it is the second issue... you might choose more cheap things to do and he might pay more?

[Dharma]

Why don't you just ask him to? (you want it to come from him without prompting, right?)

To move with this you have to take the denial off. #1 He is you. There is no separation in this world, only the illusion of it. When you are talking about him you are actually talking about you.

So you want to give yourself a treat, but you want it to come from the outside (him); the mirror of you. And you won't treat yourself unless it comes from outside yourself. And I don't mean treat yourself, as in pay for the bill, but the feelings you withhold from yourself because you won't give them to yourself without conditions. Your condition is that this feeling (of reception and appreciation of yourself) has to appear to come from the outside.

You, now, are asking yourself to recognize this and make some changes to un-link the boyfriend (or other outside source) and your feelings of self-appreciation. You said the finances don't matter, so, when you pay half the bill say to yourself, "I'm pretending I don't appreciate me now and I am linking it to my story of my boyfriend not paying all the bill... and I am changing this now." And then tap into that feeling of appreciation for self.

[danas]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

I suggest that you try to become friends with anyone you are dating. Ask this guy if he is your friend. If he says no, then do not proceed. If he says yes, then tell him you are asking his advice as a friend. Then tell him that there is this guy... and the rest.

Now whatever his advice, follow it. If he says for now to forget it, then do that. He will have the best advice. But what if a guy is broke and you need to feel taken care of. Then look for another and make sure he has lots of MONEY.

We arent just friends though. We have been intimate. Yes, we are friends too, but I cant tell him I am dating another guy who wont treat me. etc...
I dont need to be taken care of. I am wealthy. Although that he doesnt know at all. I guess, I am just confining to society. I remember once I read that if a guy doesnt offer to pay, leave him.
But the fact remains that it does bother me.
Although what 180 wrote made it clear as to why he isnt paying.
I guess I am afraid of being with someone who is "cheap" about money.

[spacecadetglow]

I don't think all this analysis is necessary. It's simple. You want what you want, and there's nothing wrong with wanting a man to take care of you.

What you have to decide is how much that bothers you. Whether the rest of the relationship makes up for it. Since you're posting about it, I'm guessing it's significant. You say that it bothers you less the more you think about it, but what about the next time you go out? See how you feel then.

Bottom line: don't settle.

[danas]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Well, I guess the fact you're "conservative" negates anything I could say? Because I was going to be like, what on earth, if you have more money than he does, why would you expect him to ever pay the whole bill if you have never done so yourself? Unless this is a D/s relationship (maybe that's related... not sure how). :P

It's just a tradition, one which, as far as I know, only exists in our culture?

Just last night a friend of mine was complaining about how in the heterosexual world to which he belongs, the man is always expected to pay and to approach the woman, even by the most supposedly "independent" women.

As I don't belong to the heterosexual world, it's an issue I am happily free of.

Its about feeling like a woman. Already in my life I use a lot of "masculine" energy. Making money, pushing my career, directing films etc...
With my man I want to express my feminine side, and feel like someone else can care for me.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by danas

Its about feeling like a woman. Already in my life I use a lot of "masculine" energy. Making money, pushing my career, directing films etc...
With my man I want to express my feminine side, and feel like someone else can care for me.

The solution that I used with my (now) husband is that he would always pay in restaurants and stuff, but because I had more money, I would give him the money and he would pay.

It made me feel taken care off, and it was still fair for us both regarding the distribution of finances

[danas]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I don't usually say this, but I agree with 180 here....

I think that either he has been "educated" about equal right and stuff and therefor thinks splitting the bill is how it is supposed to be done

Or he truly doesn't have that much money.

If it is the first one, talking in general about how you like a bit conservative men, who hold up coats, help you get seated etc might take care of it.

If it is the second issue... you might choose more cheap things to do and he might pay more?

Well I dont know. We are not doing any expensive things. Going to the cinema is not meant to be an expensive luxury. A 40$ meal for 2 is not that much in my book.
I guess I am already seeing that this will bother me down the line.... I dont live a luxury life style but I wont think twice about going to the cinema, or eating out at a casual restaurant, and I dont want to be with someone who will say he cant afford that.
But he works, and I dont think he is that poor . He pays his rent and does plenty of things. he never said no to any of my suggestions, just never paid.
I think 180 was right about him being more calculating and logical at this point, and thats why

[danas]

Originally Posted by ssandra

The solution that I used with my (now) husband is that he would always pay in restaurants and stuff, but because I had more money, I would give him the money and he would pay.

Thats funny. I couldnt do that though. Im too traditional in these little things.
I am a strong woman, sometimes too strong.
I dont want to be the domineering one in a relationship, because I easily can be.

[danas]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

I don't think all this analysis is necessary. It's simple. You want what you want, and there's nothing wrong with wanting a man to take care of you.

What you have to decide is how much that bothers you. Whether the rest of the relationship makes up for it. Since you're posting about it, I'm guessing it's significant. You say that it bothers you less the more you think about it, but what about the next time you go out? See how you feel then.

Bottom line: don't settle.

You are right. I post because I'd like to hear from others what is really important, and what isnt that important, because in this area in my life, I havent had that much success

[danas]

Originally Posted by Federer

Sorry for not adding something. I did not noticed this conservative. I was thinking that you are conservative on your thoughts. But it is not now i see. It is just your mere misunderstanding.

A conservative woman never become so willing to pay bill. And look at yourself, you have been so willing. and

good point!

[MidasGirl]

Ok, who is asking the other out, in these situations?

[spacecadetglow]

Originally Posted by danas

You are right. I post because I'd like to hear from others what is really important, and what isnt that important, because in this area in my life, I havent had that much success

What's really important to YOU? That's what you gotta ask in relationships. No harm in getting input from others when you're conflicted, I do the same thing, but ultimately it's about how YOU feel when you're with him... listen to yourself and respect yourself, you have everything you need to make the right choice.

[danas]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Ok, who is asking the other out, in these situations?

He is asking me. But sometimes he calls to ask what i feel like doing. Like last night he called and asked what's up, and I said Im hungry, he said- me too- lets go a raw food place (he's not a raw foodist, but he knows I am ). It wasnt a fancy one.
Or the other night I said I said I want to see this film, he said, great, lets go. but other times he made the whole plan for the evening, dinner+ concert for example.

[danas]

Originally Posted by spacecadetglow

What's really important to YOU? That's what you gotta ask in relationships. No harm in getting input from others when you're conflicted, I do the same thing, but ultimately it's about how YOU feel when you're with him... listen to yourself and respect yourself, you have everything you need to make the right choice.

Yeah, Ill have to see. Nobody is perfect.

[BitterFlower]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Why don't you just ask him to? (you want it to come from him without prompting, right?)

I'm with Dharma, just ask him. Or rather, put the issue out there in the open. Why can't you ask? Are you afraid that he may react negatively?

Unfortunately, in this time of mixed cultures and habits, it's really unclear who should pay what and where. I guess the general consensus is whoever asks the other person out, but that still hasn't been the rule of thumb from people I've dated. I just go with the flow, but draw the line at the other person surprising me with the fact that they have no money when the bill comes (a couple of former female friends have done to this to me).

My personal eating out beef is tipping. It irks me to death if I'm with people and they won't tip. One of my exes would never tip over the couple years we dated. It wasn't that he was broke or anything--he just refused to tip. After I discussed the issue with him, I just learned to carry extra cash so I can tip. The issue was no longer an issue after that.

Now, my husband, whom I dated after the non-tipping ex, got offended when, on one of our earlier dates, I asked if he was gonna tip or not. He got over it after I explained the background of the question.

Just ask Preferably not at dinner There may be some uncomfortable feelings when you discuss the issue, but once it's out in the open, the issue can be resolved.

[danas]

Originally Posted by BitterFlower

I'm with Dharma, just ask him. Or rather, put the issue out there in the open. Why can't you ask? Are you afraid that he may react negatively?

Unfortunately, in this time of mixed cultures and habits, it's really unclear who should pay what and where. I guess the general consensus is whoever asks the other person out, but that still hasn't been the rule of thumb from people I've dated. I just go with the flow, but draw the line at the other person surprising me with the fact that they have no money when the bill comes (a couple of former female friends have done to this to me).

My personal eating out beef is tipping. It irks me to death if I'm with people and they won't tip. One of my exes would never tip over the couple years we dated. It wasn't that he was broke or anything--he just refused to tip. After I discussed the issue with him, I just learned to carry extra cash so I can tip. The issue was no longer an issue after that.

Now, my husband, whom I dated after the non-tipping ex, got offended when, on one of our earlier dates, I asked if he was gonna tip or not. He got over it after I explained the background of the question.

Just ask Preferably not at dinner There may be some uncomfortable feelings when you discuss the issue, but once it's out in the open, the issue can be resolved.

What can I ask?
Why dont you invite me? That sounds tactless.
Will you pay? Thats even worse!

[ssandra]

If you prefer to play games what you can do to find out if he is cheap or just being very logical and careful is the following:

Next time you are out, just "forget" your credit card or wallet. If he just pays, no problem. If he pays and tells you "don't worry, you can get the next one" or if he tells you "this is my bank account number so you can transfer the money" you also know what's going on...

[James81]

Sounds like you're making the whole thing up. (The problem that is.)

The issue here isn't really the paying for the date, it's more about not being felt like you're being taken care of, right? And that doesn't just mean through monetary means...it sounds like the issue behind the issue is that a particular need isn't being met, and this situation just casts a spotlight on it.

[danas]

Originally Posted by ssandra

If you prefer to play games what you can do to find out if he is cheap or just being very logical and careful is the following:

Next time you are out, just "forget" your credit card or wallet. If he just pays, no problem. If he pays and tells you "don't worry, you can get the next one" or if he tells you "this is my bank account number so you can transfer the money" you also know what's going on...

He would pay. Im sure about that.
I guess I wanted it to come from him. To say, no, put your wallet back, Im taking care of this one...
But I can live without that, after all he is a gentleman in other ways. We will see where this goes, if anywhere, he is 9 years younger....

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by danas

He is asking me. But sometimes he calls to ask what i feel like doing. Like last night he called and asked what's up, and I said Im hungry, he said- me too- lets go a raw food place (he's not a raw foodist, but he knows I am ). It wasnt a fancy one.
Or the other night I said I said I want to see this film, he said, great, lets go. but other times he made the whole plan for the evening, dinner+ concert for example.

Ok. In line with what Dharma suggested. I'd do this, if he asks you out, go, then when the bill comes, just don't take out your wallet. Let him pay.

If you ask him out (or sort of mutually decided) and you know you have more money than him then it's kind of unfair to expect him to pay right?

Maybe he sees you take out your wallet and wants to respect your independence.

But I get your point, you want to feel "treated" by the man once in a while, even when you have more money. So, don't pay and see what he does.

You guys obviously aren't close enough to the point you give him money and he pays. I know what you mean though, you probably would have no problem paying for the big things if he offered to at least pay for some small treats right?