Opinions on being ready to raise a family

[ssandra]

Hi all,

I am ready to start a family, to see if my husband and me can make a beautiful little baby

He however isn't exactly sure. We have been talking it over for the last 6 months or so, and last week he told me "lets go for it. I don't think I'm convinced, but I don't think I'll ever be convinced".

Now, I know him, and I know that he'll be a great father. I also know that he'll never hold it against me ("but you were the one wanting kids, so now you deal with this! Leave me alone"). I know all this because 1. I know him and 2. we talked about it.

I really think that (being a guy) he will fall in love with his child as soon as he sees her. But... I don't know that for sure.

Reasons why he is not sure he'll be a good dad: (which is the main reason that he is not convinced)

- He says he's jealous of sharing me (he has no problem sharing me with family or friends or other outside activities)
- He is not sure he has the patients to deal with children, especially while watching soccer (I've seen him deal with his niece while watching soccer, no problem )
- He is very afraid that our child will be a little monster like those in the "super nanny" even though he also logically understands that those children are made that way, not born that way.

I know that he'll be a very good dad. We discuss things like how to handle certain situations and we are in agreement about the general principles of how to raise children.

I'd like your opinions on this situation. Is it just fear talking here and he'll get over it? Or is there something more?

I know that you all cannot talk for him, and that I should talk to him, and I do, a lot, but it would be great to have some outside opinion on the subject matter...

I think maybe for guys it is always different because you don't have the hormones to push you forward toward having kids?

[Angela]

I think he'll fall in love with the baby when (s)he arrives, but I also think that your husband would feel much better and be a happier and more effective father and husband if he were to resolve his "limbo" state -- preferably before you get pregnant!

If he were to integrate the inner conflict, and get congruent so that he feels like he's making a free choice, rather than getting pulled along by yours, I think he would be making a huge contribution to your marriage, as well as to his own life. His not-choosing puts you in kind of the awkward position of being partners with someone who is more of a recruit than a volunteer.

I believe that parenthood works a lot better when parents are volunteers -- free choosers.

[Piercetheveil]

I was not convinced I was ready prior my little guy. Truth is, I wasn't. However, the great thing about having a baby is that you have a bit under 9 months to prepare, bond, change, adjust, and then find out that it was bigger than you ever thought possible.

I said you. Shoulda used the personal pronoun.

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I really think that (being a guy) he will fall in love with his child as soon as he sees her. But... I don't know that for sure.

I don't know if it was just me or my limitations or my fear of making more intimate connections with people, but this didn't happen right away for me. I mean, I constantly heard people say "Oh, I fell in love with my children the minute I laid eyes on them."

Then, I felt guilty for NOT having the same experience when my kids were born. The love, for me, came in my first truly intimate moments with them. With my son, it was the night of his birth as I sat in a rocking chair at the hospital holding him, watching him coo. With my daughter, it was the first moment, after taking her home, when I laid on the couch and held her.

I think it depends on the person or what not and what they are believing at the time, but in essence, yes, whether it be right away or he has a little lull like me, it's fairly certain that it'll happen and happen quickly.

Originally Posted by ssandra

- He is very afraid that our child will be a little monster like those in the "super nanny" even though he also logically understands that those children are made that way, not born that way.

Right. Like you said, they are made that way, not born that way. So long as you always follow through with what you say you are going to do (whether it be in "discipline" mode or even in making promises to do stuff with them), and you are always clear and direct with them about respecting your boundaries, you won't have a Nanny 911 kid.

Originally Posted by ssandra

I think maybe for guys it is always different because you don't have the hormones to push you forward toward having kids?

I grew up as a father figure to the kids in my neighborhood and my church. And I grew up looking forward to having kids. I wouldn't say I had hormones pushing me, but I looked forward to having kids of my own. Ironically, the only kids I ever took for granted were my own though.

As for being ready? Eh, my son is 6, my daughter is 4, and I'm still not 'ready' to be a parent. LOL

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think he'll fall in love with the baby when (s)he arrives, but I also think that your husband would feel much better and be a happier and more effective father and husband if he were to resolve his "limbo" state -- preferably before you get pregnant!

If he were to integrate the inner conflict, and get congruent so that he feels like he's making a free choice, rather than getting pulled along by yours, I think he would be making a huge contribution to your marriage, as well as to his own life. His not-choosing puts you in kind of the awkward position of being partners with someone who is more of a recruit than a volunteer.

I believe that parenthood works a lot better when parents are volunteers -- free choosers.

He is making a free choice. I've been very careful not to "push" my view on him. I didn't talk about it much, except in general terms ("if we ever have a child, it would be great to raise it like that") and even that, very little.

Only now, when he has said "lets go for it" am I talking about it in a more realistic sense.

So in that way, he is choosing freely. He also knows (and I absolutely mean that) that if he doesn't want children that this is no reason for me to leave him. I am happy now without, and I can continue to be happy without. It would be a nice addition, but no reason to leave him.

So in that sense, there is no pressure.

Actually.... I hadn't been talking about it for about a month, when he told me "lets go for it". So, although he may not be sure about being ready, it is his own free choice.


However... if you have any tips that I can pass on to him on how to be more sure of himself as a parent before being a parent, I'd appreciate it!

[Angela]

Yes, I get that you're not pressuring him, and that he is saying, "let's go for it." But it doesn't sound like he's fully choosing, is he? From what you've said, it sounds like he's got some inner conflicts about it. Knowing you two, I'm pretty sure you will be excellent parents and have a happy, well adjusted baby -- I'm just suggesting that if he wants to be extraordinary, resolving the stuff he's "unconvinced" about might be a great way to go -- so that HE feels like he's fully choosing, rather than "I'm not quite sure, but let's go for it." See what I mean? Laser like focus.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm just suggesting that if he wants to be extraordinary, resolving the stuff he's "unconvinced" about might be a great way to go -- so that HE feels like he's fully choosing, rather than "I'm not quite sure, but let's go for it." See what I mean? Laser like focus.

Ok, get it Tnx.

Hopefully I'll be able to help him with that after the NLP course... because now, he doesn't want to be helped. He believes it is a normal part of being parents, being scared and afraid.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Now, I know him, and I know that he'll be a great father. I also know that he'll never hold it against me ("but you were the one wanting kids, so now you deal with this! Leave me alone"). I know all this because 1. I know him and 2. we talked about it.

When I met (who later became) my husband, I wasn't even thinking babies. I was too busy having fun with life But he was 43, had just got out of a 20+ year marriage where they'd wanted a child and couldn't have one, so he was ready to have a kid like yesterday. I went along because........what did it matter, right? He really really really wanted to have a child Fast forward to now, and he's the one out of the child's life, never visits, never calls, never writes, is in "fatherhood limbo" basically. I can't imagine holding it against him though, because my daughter is the best thing that's ever happened to me in my life.

I really think that (being a guy) he will fall in love with his child as soon as he sees her. But... I don't know that for sure.

That could be, with most guys I think this is the case. But there can be exceptions. But here are some things I've observed that can help you out. The way he interact with kids right now is pretty much the way he's going to be with his kid. How he is with his nephews/nieces, or close friends kids, etc. It's just that with his kid there will be added protectiveness and ownership. Is he aloof around kids right now? Then don't expect him to be overly doting with his own.

Reasons why he is not sure he'll be a good dad: (which is the main reason that he is not convinced)

- He says he's jealous of sharing me (he has no problem sharing me with family or friends or other outside activities)

That's an unfounded fear, perhaps based on stories where he's heard that when women become moms they shift all their energy to the kids? Well, you'll have to make a conscious effort to still give him a lot of the attention he's used to, but usually if the man is helping to raise the child then he won't feel that loss anyway. Most men though, IMO, want to be selfish and continue to watch football while you're changing diapers, waking up at night to calm the baby down, giving the baby attention (which can be very emotionally draining at times) etc. then expect you to be super goddess who immediately gets into your maids outfit to wow him in bed after a day of being puked on by his baby (whew, that was a mouthful!)


-

He is not sure he has the patients to deal with children, especially while watching soccer (I've seen him deal with his niece while watching soccer, no problem )

He'll grow patience. Kids have a way of causing you to grow in areas you never even thought possible.

- He is very afraid that our child will be a little monster like those in the "super nanny" even though he also logically understands that those children are made that way, not born that way.

Unfounded fear. I think he's watching too much TV Seriously though, you make a decision what kind of a kid you want to raise, and go from there. Worrying about how the child will turn out even before it's born is just going to cause him to stress over something that may never even occur.

I know that he'll be a very good dad. We discuss things like how to handle certain situations and we are in agreement about the general principles of how to raise children.

I'm sure he'll be a good dad. If you work as a team, you'll be fine. The problem is when the parents are not on the same page regarding how to raise the child. Or those that are not on any page at all.

I think maybe for guys it is always different because you don't have the hormones to push you forward toward having kids?

If you think your husband is fantastic, it makes sense to capture his gene no? Men may not have the hormonal urge, but they might be intrigued when they see a little "them" seedling forming into a little human. It can be good for the ego too.

[lifetimelearner]

I agree with what everyone has said -it is better to be prepared but it doesn't always happen that way

I never wanted kids -
but my youngest basically saved my life when I got pregnant with him -long story

anyway both of you just follow your heart
love to you

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

When I met (who later became) my husband, I wasn't even thinking babies. I was too busy having fun with life But he was 43, had just got out of a 20+ year marriage where they'd wanted a child and couldn't have one, so he was ready to have a kid like yesterday. I went along because........what did it matter, right? He really really really wanted to have a child Fast forward to now, and he's the one out of the child's life, never visits, never calls, never writes, is in "fatherhood limbo" basically. I can't imagine holding it against him though, because my daughter is the best thing that's ever happened to me in my life.

He has an overinflated sense of responsibility, so that will never happen with him (or with me, I think children are way to precious to leave alone!)

That could be, with most guys I think this is the case. But there can be exceptions. But here are some things I've observed that can help you out. The way he interact with kids right now is pretty much the way he's going to be with his kid. How he is with his nephews/nieces, or close friends kids, etc. It's just that with his kid there will be added protectiveness and ownership. Is he aloof around kids right now? Then don't expect him to be overly doting with his own.

He is exactly as I hope he would be with our child. He doesn't talk down to his niece or children of his friends. He treats them with respect. Yet he also loves cuddling them and spoiling them

That's why I'm not worried. His niece was talking to him during a football match and he paid attention to her, while there were several others in the room so he could have said "go talk to your mom" or something

That's an unfounded fear, perhaps based on stories where he's heard that when women become moms they shift all their energy to the kids? Well, you'll have to make a conscious effort to still give him a lot of the attention he's used to, but usually if the man is helping to raise the child then he won't feel that loss anyway. Most men though, IMO, want to be selfish and continue to watch football while you're changing diapers, waking up at night to calm the baby down, giving the baby attention (which can be very emotionally draining at times) etc. then expect you to be super goddess who immediately gets into your maids outfit to wow him in bed after a day of being puked on by his baby (whew, that was a mouthful!)

I think this comes from his best friend. His wife stopped completely paying attention to him after their baby was born and the baby (and still now, when the baby is 3) comes and came before everything.

I disagree with that. Of course, when a baby is younger and helpless, sure you go to her when she is crying instead of making dinner or whatever... But when she is older, and I'm talking to my husband, and she wants attention just for the sake of attention, she can wait a bit!

I wouldn't stop making him diner or stop doing things for him! I already have that very clearly in my head.

Unfounded fear. I think he's watching too much TV Seriously though, you make a decision what kind of a kid you want to raise, and go from there. Worrying about how the child will turn out even before it's born is just going to cause him to stress over something that may never even occur.

My fault this one I love watching those shows Also the child of friends is a little monster, like those on tv. But that's a good thing because we see exactly what we don't want to do

His mom doesn't want to punish him or fight with him or set boundaries, because she doesn't want to seem bad. She desperately needs her child to love her.... and therefor continuously gives in.

I'm sure he'll be a good dad. If you work as a team, you'll be fine. The problem is when the parents are not on the same page regarding how to raise the child. Or those that are not any page at all.

Yes, we have other friends that are pregnant now, that have no idea about raising a child. They never even discussed the most basic things!!! I cannot imagine that...

Maybe we are over talking things comparing to others, but I think it is better this way, then not talking at all!

If you think your husband is fantastic, it makes sense to capture his gene no? Men may not have the hormonal urge, but they might be intrigued when they see a little "them" seedling forming into a little human. It can be good for the ego too.

Oh boy..... just what he needed... more ego....



Tnx for your answer! Helped me clear up somethings! (I'm going to print this thread and all the answers and have him read it. It may help to put his mind at ease a bit).

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Men may not have the hormonal urge, but they might be intrigued when they see a little "them" seedling forming into a little human. It can be good for the ego too.

- intrigue
- ego

Wonderful incentives. It's a miracle that men have been dads for millenia at all...

[James81]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Most men though, IMO, want to be selfish and continue to watch football while you're changing diapers, waking up at night to calm the baby down, giving the baby attention (which can be very emotionally draining at times) etc. then expect you to be super goddess who immediately gets into your maids outfit to wow him in bed after a day of being puked on by his baby (whew, that was a mouthful!)

I used to say "Most women are selfish, lying, cheating whores."

And when I'd say that, I'd back it up with all my expriences with women, believing it to be the truth about women as a whole. In my limited experience, and my limited observations, MOST women really WERE the types who cheated and treated men like ****.

And then, I decided to take responsibility for my own gunk. I looked inside of myself and saw all this nasty stuff I didn't want to see for myself, realizing my own role in attracting these types to me and how, by believing it to be true, I was giving these types of women my focus in such a way as I couldn't see the other types of women who were around me. I literally filled my reality with lying, cheating, selfish whores because I was a manipulative, controlling, self-centered man.

And suddenly, upon realizing that, all the whores disappeared from my reality. It was weird because suddenly I find myself surrounded by women I respect on a daily basis.

It's like when you buy a car, and suddenly you start seeing how many other people have the same type of car as you and you're startled that you didn't realize it before.

I say that to say this...if these are the types of men that you find filling up your reality, I would encourage you to take a similar look inside. You might be surprised what you see in there, and what you might start seeing around you after you see what's inside of you.

There are all sorts of different people, doing all sorts of different things--some noble, some less than noble, some downright selfish. The ones you cast your focus on, however, tell you a big, bold story about who you are.

[carenkh]

I was just thinking about this...

One thing to ask (yourself and him) is whether he's mature enough to be giving in the relationship. The majority of problems I see in unschooling/natural parenting/attachment parenting families is that the Dad has unresolved childhood issues, so he feels resentment when the infant needs (and receives) more attention than him. He doesn't want to share sleeping space, he doesn't want to meet the child's needs, holds it against the child (and Mom) when the mom meets the child's needs, etc. If your baby would sleep better sleeping with you, would he be able to either share the bed, or sleep in another bed? Is he going to be able to consistently support doing what's best for *the child*, even if it's inconvenient for him? (This is just an example. I know not everyone will co-sleep.)

The difference I've seen in Dads who "get it" is that they're mature enough and confident enough, (and have had enough of their own needs met), to put the child first as long as the child has that need. As they mature, of course, that need changes, but for quite a long time, it really is all about the child. For a higher-needs kid, it might be longer than you expect.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by James81

I don't know if it was just me or my limitations or my fear of making more intimate connections with people, but this didn't happen right away for me. I mean, I constantly heard people say "Oh, I fell in love with my children the minute I laid eyes on them."

Then, I felt guilty for NOT having the same experience when my kids were born. The love, for me, came in my first truly intimate moments with them. With my son, it was the night of his birth as I sat in a rocking chair at the hospital holding him, watching him coo. With my daughter, it was the first moment, after taking her home, when I laid on the couch and held her.

My ex was very lucky to have one of my best friends talk to him about parenthood. She said, honestly, that often the Dads don't feel that overwhelming love right away, but that it was OK, to trust that it would grow. I didn't even know they'd had that conversation until months after our son was born, and he said he didn't feel that whoosh of love until a few days after his birth, when our son was sleeping between us. It's sometimes a process, to fall in love with your kids.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I was just thinking about this...

One thing to ask (yourself and him) is whether he's mature enough to be giving in the relationship.

He definitely is He puts me before whatever it is that he is watching or doing, if I ask him.

I don't think it is a problem for him to do with maturity. It has more to do with the fear of not being 100% perfect (and in control).
If your baby would sleep better sleeping with you, would he be able to either share the bed, or sleep in another bed? Is he going to be able to consistently support doing what's best for *the child*, even if it's inconvenient for him? (This is just an example. I know not everyone will co-sleep.)

The difference I've seen in Dads who "get it" is that they're mature enough and confident enough, (and have had enough of their own needs met), to put the child first as long as the child has that need. As they mature, of course, that need changes, but for quite a long time, it really is all about the child. For a higher-needs kid, it might be longer than you expect.

At least we agree on NOT co-sleeping

The first few months a baby would sleep with us in our room, but in its own bed. After a few months (between 6 and 12 I guess depending on how things go) the baby will move to its own room

We are both very into raising an independent child. Someone who can go to their parents for whatever they need, but don't feel lost, helpless or hopeless without their parents. A child that can take care of its own (in an age appropriate way of course ) so co-sleeping wouldn't work for us in that scenario.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Elrond

- intrigue
- ego

Wonderful incentives. It's a miracle that men have been dads for millenia at all...

Calm down. Not you, you probably can't wait to change diapers and wake up several times at night to see what the hell they woke up screaming about

[carenkh]

Meeting needs doesn't create a needy child.

I thought the same as you! Then when my son was born, and he was SO unhappy sleeping in his own bed, in my room, and so much happier sleeping on my chest, he started sleeping with me that first night - and did, for quite a while afterward. A LOT of the ideas I had about parenting changed once the actual child was here. Fair warning.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by James81

I used to say "Most women are selfish, lying, cheating whores."

And when I'd say that, I'd back it up with all my expriences with women, believing it to be the truth about women as a whole. In my limited experience, and my limited observations, MOST women really WERE the types who cheated and treated men like ****.

Actually, good catch. It was irresponsible wording on my part to say, "most men". It's more like, "some men I've known...." And in all fairness, my ex never complained of me giving my child more attention that him. The nutter wasn't home most of the time anyway, so he wouldn't have noticed lack of attention as it were.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Meeting needs doesn't create a needy child.

I thought the same as you! Then when my son was born, and he was SO unhappy sleeping in his own bed, in my room, and so much happier sleeping on my chest, he started sleeping with me that first night - and did, for quite a while afterward. A LOT of the ideas I had about parenting changed once the actual child was here. Fair warning.

Ah yes. We've talked about that as well. We have certain ideas, but both are open to the reality that those may have to change once a child is here...


I wouldn't be able to sleep with a child in one bed though... I would be way to afraid of rolling on top of it.... I move a lot, I've been waking up lying on top of my blankets and wondering why I'm so cold... so, no thank you, not worth the risk!!

[MidasGirl]

Ssandra, I had the same fear too, that I could roll over my child. You'll be surprised how many things change about you once you give birth to that child. I used to sleep like a log for example, and since her birth I instantly became a very light sleeper, awoken by the slightest noise.

If I were to have a baby right now, I'd definitely want to sleep with it the first 2 years. I did so with my daughter. I know it's not the western thing to do. But my belief is that it's what's best for the baby. It was always this way for millenia, mothers cradled their infants the first couple of years.

Also, I wonder why nobody has ever paid attention to the fact that Sudden Infant Death Syndrome is primarily a western phenomenon. Has it ever happened when the infant was being cradled by its mother?

[marinik]

Dear Ssandra stop overthinking all of this! There is no such thing as a perfect parent! There is no such thing as being ready for it. You have no clue what happens when the little person arrives. The feelings of responsibility are just unbelievable! Do the men feel left out! Oh yes! even with his 3rd and 4th child my husband was jealous in a way and he admitted it!

There is just one question do you both want to have children or not. There is no use of analyzing where the kid will sleep or what will you do if it cries or if he/she it bothers daddy while watching soccer! That is all childplay. The serious stuff is do you want a life that will be dependent on you for the next 20-25 years? There is no way back. It is a lifetime commitment. It changes everything and you have to be aware of it. It brings life into a totally different dimension. And it rules your world at least for the next 14-15 years.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Calm down. Not you, you probably can't wait to change diapers and wake up several times at night to see what the hell they woke up screaming about

Clearly you don't think that men are god. (context)

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Clearly you don't think that men are god. (context)

Would love to respond but I'd be hijacking Ssandra's thread. But I bet you'd look like a god when changing a diaper.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by marinik

Dear Ssandra stop overthinking all of this!

I am a little bit, aren't I?

There is no such thing as a perfect parent! There is no such thing as being ready for it. You have no clue what happens when the little person arrives. The feelings of responsibility are just unbelievable! Do the men feel left out! Oh yes! even with his 3rd and 4th child my husband was jealous in a way and he admitted it!

Is there a way to change this? I mean, I completely understand that if I never ask him to change a diaper or stand over him every time he gives the baby a bath, that he'll feel left out... but isn't it supposed to be a family UNIT? The 3 of us together? Instead of 2+1 (either parents + baby or mother/baby + father).

There is just one question do you both want to have children or not.

The question to that is Yes. For both of us.
My husband says that the only thing that he isn't sure about is if he is ready for it or not.. but there is no doubt that he wants children.

I'm not sure if you are allowed to say this, seeing as I've never ever seen anybody say it... but I'm sometimes not sure if I'm ready... not because I wouldn't be responsible or loving, and I am ready for the life long commitment that follows.... but more because I sometimes still feel like a child... I don't really Identify with being a grown up, feel like I'm still 22 just playing through life...

[Angela]

You know, I don't think it's possible to overthink the question of whether or when to have a child. But it sure is possible to underthink it!

[marinik]

You are aloud to say all of it!

I don't think anybody is really ready. There is this image of parenthood that is being Hollywood-ised like it is a dream come true... pure bliss. I love my 4 kids. I can't imagine my life without them but was it all that nice and easy. NO! Did I enjoy it most of the time NO! It is hard work. I love the outcome. The wonderful people I raised with my husband. But the process is long and difficult. I see my daughter with her daughter who is a wonderful charming child but a handful at 16 months.

Yes the beautiful moments is what you remember but to be honest the rest of the time is work and worries. Nobody asks you if you are up to it, you just do it. The marriage is the first to suffer. If you are not a tight couple it is not that easy. And my dear as wonderful a father they are it is mostly up to you. You are UN forces all the time.

And this is coming from a mother of 4 grown up wonderful successful children. I am not bitter or have any regrets. just trying to tell my truth.

We have turned parenthood into something that it is not. A science a skill to be mastered first. It is a natural part of life. Just a phase. You lived 20 something years without them. You live 20 something for them and then you can start living again when the are gone into their lives. Like me now.

[rei]

marinik, your posts here are fascinating. I have noticed a tendency to idealize parenting among some of the people I know. (Sandra, I am not talking about you ) And... I have seen folks decide to have a baby to fix a relationship or because the woman wants to have fun with it, like a real life doll or something (Sandra, not talking about you here either )... but I think your posts in this thread help create a realistic understanding. It is a living breathing little person...

[James81]

Originally Posted by marinik

You are aloud to say all of it!

Nice little play on words right there.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by ssandra

My husband says that the only thing that he isn't sure about is if he is ready for it or not.. but there is no doubt that he wants children.

.. but I'm sometimes not sure if I'm ready... not because I wouldn't be responsible or loving, and I am ready for the life long commitment that follows.... but more because I sometimes still feel like a child...

I can relate to that, but I am not sure if you or him will ever feel ready. I think I am as ready or unready now as I would be in 5 or 10 years. It is something new, and I think you will grow into that job quite quickly. It is not that you have to be perfect and certainly not from the very start. You will grow as a parent just as your child will.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by metamorph

I can relate to that, but I am not sure if you or him will ever feel ready. I think I am as ready or unready now as I would be in 5 or 10 years. It is something new, and I think you will grow into that job quite quickly.

Yes, that is exactly how he sees it as well! thank you for articulating that so much better then I did!!

It is not that you have to be perfect and certainly not from the very start. You will grow as a parent just as your child will.

Maybe that's why children generally don't remember the first 2 or 3 years ?