Face to face friend: "Hey I just found you on Pavlina's Forum." Gulp

[Savage]

Originally Posted by metamorph

There are certain jobs (e.g. doctors, politicians) in which you have to be a little bit more discrete as the public scrutinises you more closely. Can you imagine googling a doctor and politician's name and finding posts on a forum where he expresses his liberal views on premaritial sex or masturbation etc?

That type of honesty might get me to register to vote. Heck, I'd probably campaign openly for such a person too.

I don't think people are as dumb as politicians assume.

[Angela]

I would be far more likely to make an appointment with a doctor, or to vote for a politician, who is open about her views and unafraid of being seen, and who doesn't hide behind a cloak of anonymity and "discretion."

[metamorph]

Thank you Steve and Angela.

But, unfortunately, you and this forum are not a representation of the public (as much as I would love you to be...). We are still the lost tribe (see Furthac's post).

In the US such a politician might win in California and Nevada, but so sure about the rest of the states

Just see yourself how many polititians for example stumble over small things they phrased wrong, did wrong, etc.

For doctors it is similar in my country. Small flaws, insecurities or indecision can destroy your image, and your patient loses trust in you. Happens even if you do not post about your fears or indecision on the internet...

[MidasGirl]

Actually, I think soon enough these silly judgments will become a thing of the past. Recently, a Massachusetts (republican!!) dude became senator even after it was revealed he'd posed nude for cosmo in his 20's. I've said it before, it's too bad he chose to not expose those goods entirely, or I'd have become a republican just to vote for him

[mikethedrummer44]

I used to worry about people or future employers googling my name, until I actually googled it myself. Luckily for me, there are quite a few extremely famous people with my exact name.

Also, I'll probably never have an employer again, so eliminates that worry.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

Thank you Steve and Angela.

But, unfortunately, you and this forum are not a representation of the public (as much as I would love you to be...). We are still the lost tribe (see Furthac's post).

In the US such a politician might win in California and Nevada, but so sure about the rest of the states

Just see yourself how many polititians for example stumble over small things they phrased wrong, did wrong, etc.

For doctors it is similar in my country. Small flaws, insecurities or indecision can destroy your image, and your patient loses trust in you. Happens even if you do not post about your fears or indecision on the internet...

Are you planning a career as a doctor or politician?

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

Are you planning a career as a doctor or politician?

I think you are proving my point.

I already have a successful career as .... but people who read my post probably would not believe it. I do not have to portray such an image here but rather can let myself flow (including the bad grammar and punctuation

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

I think you are proving my point.

I already have a successful career as .... but people who read my post probably would not believe it. I do not have to portray such an image here but rather can let myself flow (including the bad grammar and punctuation

I don't dispute your point that people could get fired for being open and letting go of the safety of hiding behind anonymity. My point is that I wouldn't want to work for a person, or to hang out with people, who would fire me or deem me undesirable for hanging out with, for being authentic myself.

If you feel you're part of a lost tribe in which this sort of attitude wouldn't work, you might, if you're inspired to, begin by transforming the lostness within yourself, and encouraging your tribe to find authenticity. You could be a leader in that regard, if not a politician.

[The Cloud]

Not caring about consequences has consequences. It's a good thing you don't care.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

My point is that I wouldn't want to work for a person, or to hang out with people, who would fire me or not deem me undesirable for hanging out with, for being authentic myself.

Fair enough
I think you can be authentic personality-wise, but still choose what and how much you want to share with people. I really not do feel any desire to share all my thoughts, dreams, fears with strangers. I find that quite natural. Just like we are not runnig around naked (literally), I do not see any higher value in complete psychological/emotional transparency or "radical honesty approaches". Neither would I be keen to read up on my neigbours, colleagues, boss' sexual fantasies on a forum. I find a certain mystery quite charming. Therefore, the discretion my job requires is really no big deal.

I share more on this forum than in real life, because the forum exists. There is a vast amount of topics covered here, more than anyone probably would cover with friends in real life. It is not that I could not discuss many things with my real life friends, but it is not necessary for our friendship to share everything.

Originally Posted by Angela

.... if not a politician.

Not interested enough in politics...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

I share more on this forum than in real life, because the forum exists. There is a vast amount of topics covered here, more than anyone probably would cover with friends in real life. It is not that I could not discuss many things with my real life friends, but it is not necessary for our friendship to share everything.

You feel it's necessary to share things with strangers here in the forums that you wouldn't share with people you're actually friends with, because it's not necessary to?

It's just the opposite for me. There are things I want to share with people in my afk life that I don't feel it's necessary to share with people on the forums. If something's private, I don't blurt it out on public forums and then hide in anonymity. I just keep it private.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's just the opposite for me. There are things I want to share with people in my afk life that I don't feel it's necessary to share with people on the forums. If something's private, I don't blurt it out on public forums and then hide in anonymity. I just keep it private.

I noticed that, and I do not mean that disrepectfully. But, I think you comment more on other people's problems and help them with great dedication, but you share comparatively few of your own problems.

So we are the same. We both want privacy, but we have the opposite approach

You have a public ("real") profile on a forum and you offer professional coaching. Therefore, you want to choose what part of your private life you want to share with potential clients. I do the same, but in real life. For me discussions on this forum do not become better or more valuable just because I discuss them with [real name] as opposed to [Daffy Duck]. They are simply discussions.

[st33med]

To be honest, I had done the something as you in high school, metamorph. Kept my mouth closed about everything I liked. However, I started to realize I need to be more of myself. I started to expose myself a little more. A little. I wish I would have been more open because then I could have been much more authentic.

Now, I realize I can open my mouth. No harm will come to me in college. If they judge me because of my beliefs and don't want to be with me, then it's their loss. Doesn't mean you should blurt out stuff about masturbating to anyone (), but it allows you to experience a lot more stuff you like to talk about. And the more you open up, the more others will open up.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by metamorph

I...you share comparatively few of your own problems.

So we are the same. We both want privacy, but we have the opposite approach

You have a public ("real") profile on a forum and you offer professional coaching. Therefore, you want to choose what part of your private life you want to share with potential clients. I do the same, but in real life. For me discussions on this forum do not become better or more valuable just because I discuss them with [real name] as opposed to [Daffy Duck]. They are simply discussions.

I don't think you realize how presumptuous you're being here. I'll just leave it at that.

[James81]

Being presumptuous is like being in love. No one can tell you, you just know.

Carve that one in a stone tablet somewhere.

[Angelique]

I'm inching towards 100% authenticity. Right now, I would feel very flustered if certain people found me on here and also very annoyed if they started asking me questions about my thoughts. I keep pushing myself more and more and sometimes I feel really stupid for sharing some things (including this post).
At times I'll share some really intimate details about myself IRL. But then, afterwards I don't want to see or talk to that person ever again. Sometimes because I'm afraid they'll want to be too close all the time and other times because they just kind of disgust me afterwards.

I'm trusting these feelings will go away soon though. Toastmasters is helping a lot with this along with some other little social experiments I do here and there. I think in some ways this has manifested some really deep conversations in places where I've only made acquaintances. Those deep convos are great motivators to keep going.

[pyrogen]

I definitely desire authenticity. What a wonderful, powerful feeling that would be, to have the luxury of being totally honest.

It wouldn't be easy for someone to trace me here. If I ever accessed from a job, I'd use my droid, not the company computer. I also don't use my name. I'm not ready for people I meet "in real life" to know I am a magick-practicing politically centrist bisexual skeptic (yes, I'm aware some of those sound contradictory).

I don't have delusions about privacy, because I have been stalked online in the past. I will say that I managed to (I THINK) successfully elude my online stalker when I started being more "elusive" online and taking greater privacy measures.

I also had an employer admit that while she googled *me* and "couldn't find anything interesting" (good! I aim for that!), she would tend to hire or not hire people based on what social/political groups she found them connected to. People do this in real life. They will choose or discriminate based upon a person's "tribe membership" and tend to prefer people who have a similar lifestyle and political/social orientation. It's just real life. When two people have equal credentials, the one that gets picked will often be the one who "fits in with the company". Now, this ex employer *would preferentially* hire me based on being bisexual and skeptic, but if she would, there are twenty more who wouldn't, and she might also end up choosing not to based upon her own liberal leanings and preferential socializing with other liberals.

I'm actually more concerned about being "found out" politically than anything else. Here in my area, for example, especially in my VERY left-leaning field, I'd be wise not to be identified as being involved in any pro-Israel or anti-gun control discussion threads. And on the other hand, there are other people I'd not want to see that I'm in favor of drug legalization - they often assume you're a drug user! So, I tend to prefer - in venues where I can be readily identified - to "lay low" about these things, and I don't "friend" just anybody on Facebook.

One of the reasons I decided to sign on with the Million Dollar Experiment was imagining the joy I'd feel in being able to be so *free* - not worried whether or not my very congruence and honesty is going to in some way threaten my
ability to survive. I feel I'd be able to be a better person with a million dollars.

Now, all of that said.

I've had more issues with online life with relationships, than in any other situation.

My participation in this board was actually a major factor in my last breakup, and before that, my participation in online communities in general was an annoyance to my ex-husband.

Basically, my most recent ex would look at everything I posted online. And while this shouldn't have been an issue, it frequently led to arguments over the *content* of stuff I posted online... because, as it turns out, I was more open about my beliefs, attitudes, etc to strangers over the internet than I actually was to my ex.

It was pretty much a mutual breakup, but for my half, I realized that I wanted a partner I could be that transparent with, and that my partner and I had not created an environment together where we felt free to be our most authentic selves.

Before that, my ex husband was very threatened about me being in online life at all - he refused to take part (except in one or two boards that just talked about computers) and wanted me to pull off of journals, blogs, and boards. At the time, I was an active Livejournaller (not under my real name), and had an attitude of openness online, and spoke openly about my various trials and tribulations (such as dealing with trichotillomania and social anxiety - conquered the former by being *open*). He felt like I was compromising the relationship when I discussed my life openly and felt humiliated by the contents of my journal, especially after his family and friends found it.

Go figure.

So, I don't honestly know how open I should be, or not be, online. I'd love to have the freedom of not worrying what employers think of my (rather tame) online activity - sounds lovely, and I'm going to create that reality for myself. And I don't choose to be in a relationship, at this point, where I can't be the same person in the relationship that I am online.

Yeah, I realized I went on and on and that this looks like a blog... bleah.

[MidasGirl]

Nice post pyrogen. It was poignant.

I'm not sure I'd want my exhusband seeing all the crap I say about him, he still owes me money hey

On a serious note though, I never share anything online that I would be ashamed of if someone in afk life found out. I don't really care. My only issue is if my very conservative parents found out the stuff I share online they'd be humiliated, but perhaps not totally shocked. It's not like they have any wealth to pass to me anyway so I'm not too concerned that they'll cutting me off their will.

My main concern really is exposing my personal info out there. I've very strong views about things (including politics) and I have a child to consider. I remember during the Prop 8 skirmishes, I wanted to go join the protesters, my daughter was in a catholic school at the time and she literally begged me not to go, as her school had "Yes on 8" all over the place! She's happily out of that school now.

My point though is that with your first and last name, a person could quickly get your address and all your relatives names. When I told a friend that I had a met a guy I was crazy about online, he quickly demanded to know his first and last name, whipped out his iphone and quickly pulled up said guy's background check. Yes iphone has an app that allows you to do that (albeit minimally).

When I was back in the dating game for a while there, I met a guy on OKCupid who we planned a date with, he was a lawyer. A couple days before the date he told me he'd googled me to death. So he knew what schools I went to, etc etc and even a few of my photos I hadn't posted on okcupid. So yeah, I'm really tempted to use my real names here as well, but not sure I'm ready for it.

It's like this, would you want the whole world overhearing all the conversations you have when you go out socializing with friends/colleagues? Would you want someone there recording you and posting it to where all can access it? This forum (and others I've been part of) are like my little pub around the corner I go to socialize, sometimes I'm drunk and don't want to have to remember what I said the next day.

[st33med]

You've come here drunk? Well, I always say typing and drinking don't mix!

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Nice post pyrogen. It was poignant.

I'm not sure I'd want my exhusband seeing all the crap I say about him, he still owes me money hey

On a serious note though, I never share anything online that I would be ashamed of if someone in afk life found out. I don't really care. My only issue is if my very conservative parents found out the stuff I share online they'd be humiliated, but perhaps not totally shocked. It's not like they have any wealth to pass to me anyway so I'm not too concerned that they'll cutting me off their will.

My main concern really is exposing my personal info out there. I've very strong views about things (including politics) and I have a child to consider. I remember during the Prop 8 skirmishes, I wanted to go join the protesters, my daughter was in a catholic school at the time and she literally begged me not to go, as her school had "Yes on 8" all over the place! She's happily out of that school now.

My point though is that with your first and last name, a person could quickly get your address and all your relatives names. When I told a friend that I had a met a guy I was crazy about online, he quickly demanded to know his first and last name, whipped out his iphone and quickly pulled up his background check. Yes iphone has an app that allows you to do that (albeit minimally).

When I was back in the dating game for a while there, I met a guy on OKCupid who we planned a date with, he was a lawyer. A couple days before the date he told me he'd googled me to death. So he knew what schools I went to, etc etc and even a few of my photos I hadn't posted on okcupid. So yeah, I'm really tempted to use my real names here as well, but not sure I'm ready for it.

It's like this, would you want the whole world overhearing all the conversations you have when you go out socializing with friends/colleagues? Would you want someone there recording you and posting it to where all can access it? This forum (and others I've been part of) are like my little pub around the corner I go to socialize, sometimes I'm drunk and don't want to have to remember what I said the next day.

That was a big issue with the most recent ex, who would bring up posts I made six months to a year before on this and other boards. Whuh? I don't know what I was thinking six months ago. I may not even remember the conversation.

I have a friend who has two separate Facebook accounts - even though you're not technically supposed to do that - because his family are all very strict Christians who make his life miserable every time he brings up an opinion they disagree with. He's not open about *anything* under that account. He's his real self under the account where he has the fake name.

I'm in the middle of a name change (decided to take my stepdad's surname), so not easily findable... thank goodness for small favors.

[Donkey1]

Haa. Is your friend a user on this? They should comment on this thread.

[Piercetheveil]

Personally, my issues with transparency have come in times I was not fully engaged with life. Hard to give to much thought to how I am seen by you when my senses are maxed out living.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by James81

Being presumptuous is like being in love. No one can tell you, you just know.

I agree As I said in my post I had no intention of being disrespectful or malicious.
But, it shows that as you share your views and make yourself more transparent, you are subjected to judgment by people, and these judgment will always be flawed. It is because we never really see the whole picture in particular if this judgment is based on posts on a forum. So what people are left with is assumptions/presumptions, whether it is my post above analysing Angela's motives, or Angela assuming I have an "inner lostness" or I am "presumptuous" without knowing me. I think we are all presumptuous in this regard
Therefore, I think the whole transparency thing online is really an illusion. What people are left with is pieces of information that they filter through their lens, leading to a completely distorted, and certainly not authentic picture of the other person.

[Angela]

You may be right, metamorph, that transparency is an illusion and that all we have is our experience of one another through our own filters.

And here's the thing: when you post anonymously with no reference of who you are in the world, you are free to "be" whatever you want from one virtual place to another, free of accountability, I mean. Which is kind of nice, and there's nothing wrong with it. In it's extreme, people use that freedom to jab and dash, like mean comments on a youtube video. But most people use the freedom as you do, to keep certain things "private" while still being able to express them. They get to be and feel heard and to get feedback without being vulnerable or accountable.

If a person feels he has an image to protect, that damage to that image would result in damage to himself, and being accountable in the real world for things he expresses online is something that must be defended against, then he's living the illusion -- he's feeding the power of the illusion, rather than generating authentic personal power. Again, that's fine; there's nothing wrong with it, and there's no reason why a person *should* generate authentic personal power. It's simply my preference -- and something I support in the people I associate with, and the courage and dynamic willingness to be fully expressed AND responsible and accountable (or not) is something that would influence me in whom I'd choose to do business with, vote for, hire, be hired by, etc. My "tribe" has nothing to do with living in California or Nevada.

p.s.. this is not to say that someone who uses an alternative name in a forum is not generating personal power - it's the hiding, protecting and defending against accountability or responsibility I'm speaking of, not the act of using an avatar inherently.

[MidasGirl]

I've always wondered if there are any famous people or celebrities posting here. I mean, I know that Will Smith, Jim Carey and his girlfriend are all huge into PD and into LOA and what not. Not to mention a few rawfoodist/vegan celebrities. Surely they also mingle online on sites like these? I wonder how it would be in they just signed up using their real names? Oh by the way, I'm a famous person, in case anybody was wondering.

[ssandra]

It is very easy to find me here, or on facebook. On facebook I have my real name, so I can easily be found .I have also linked to this forum from my facebook account and since I post with my real name here and my picture as my avatar, it's not that hard to connect.

Do I want my family or family-in-law to find out that I'm a bisexual, spiritual person in a non monogamous relationship? no.

Would my world fall apart if they did? no.

I opt in for being myself, and everybody who cannot deal with that can opt out.

[Angela]

There have been a couple of people here who have said they are famous, without revealing their names. It struck me as being rather wimpy -- whether they really are famous, or not.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I opt in for being myself, and everybody who cannot deal with that can opt out.

You are your own solar system!

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Angela

There have been a couple of people here who have said they are famous, without revealing their names. It struck me as being rather wimpy -- whether they really are famous, or not.

I highly doubt a real famous person would say they're famous. Except if they are famous in their family, like me.

I heard that Elizabeth Edwards(of the famous cheating politician) went to a site where his infidelity was being discussed and she anonymously posted a few nasty things about the mistress, and somebody outed her account. So its not so anonymous after all.

I've been in other sites where the mods had to step in and change a person's account name cuz an ex or whoever had been lurking and had seen all they had posted, and then used it to harass them or whatever.

Anonymous or not, I say don't post stuff that you would wish the earth could swallow you if someone found out.

[elucidate]

Funny that I found this thread now. I'm having a dispute with my father at the moment over a privacy issue, whereby he looked through and read my private written journals without asking, and then lied about it. They contained some pretty REVEALING intuitive knowings that I had been carrying around for years and had noone I felt I could tell except the paper.
Sure it brought it all out in the open, but he is the one who had control by his snooping, not me. It wasn't my choice to share that with him until I spoke to a third party involved. It's a violation.

Privacy is only a delusional concept to people who have no respect for other peoples privacy, and/or a poor sense of boundaries!

On the internet though, it's pretty much a risk every time you log on that someone will find out something about you...but hey, as Ssandra says, anyone who minds probably isn't worth having as a friend anyway!