Sex, Sexual Fantasies, Ego & Spirituality

[zeitgeist]

I remember lying in bed next to my girlfriend one day many years ago. While she was asleep, I was masturbating and I had some sexual fantasies. It was then when it suddenly hit me how different having sex really is from letting your sexual fantasies run. When you have sex you don't think, you just merge with your partner. Who cares, I thought then, exploring sexual fantasies is just different, so let's enjoy them both!

I spent a lot of time in sexual chat rooms afterwards and really enjoyed exchanging fantasies with others. This was before the time of video links and it turns out that the mind is running wild when you talk to people you can't see. I actually never had a problem with my behaviour given that I never met with anyone and I was under the impression that most of the folks that I talked to were just exchanging their fantasies in the same way. It also turned out that I learned a lot about my psyche and the workings of my mind that way.

The mind sizes all the time and that is why we are so obsessed with body stats, penis length, breast sizes and what have you. Similarly, the mind or ego is all about power and that's why we end up having fantasies about submission and dominance. Perhaps this is the second difference between actual sex and your fantasies: try to recall whether in your dreams the partner you are with happens to be on equal footing. Changes are, somebody is always on top because that's what the mind and your hunger for power does. If you are on a spiritual path it happens to be your destiny to figure out the workings of your mind, ego or personality. It doesn't really matter if your favorite subject is sex, power, or status - it is always the same struggle.

Mind sex is also highly addictive, while having real or 'mindless' sex is not. Drink some alcohol, masturbate and see how quickly your sexual conversations disintegrates into something you never would have thought possible. You tab directly into the pleasure center of your brain and once you do that there is no turning back. I had to realize how addictive mind sex really is and it took me a while to get off it.

I also have a hunch that when it comes to sexual fantasies men are again from Mars and women from Venus. I certainly have met many exceptions, but on average, I think the sexual fantasies of men are much more destructive. As a rule I believe that the spiritual or intuitive side of women is more advanced, while men are more mind driven.

Sex shouldn't be a taboo in a spiritual community; you learn a lot about yourself by exploring your sexuality and your fantasies. Yet sooner or later you will learn that your mind-driven sexual desires are similar to your power hunger or strive for wealth and status. Where your mind is, love cannot be. But please, do not beat yourself up over your sexual hunger, that would be torture. Let your passions run and be mindful of what is going on in your brain. You can learn playfully so much about yourself. Lastly, as many in this forum have said before, having sex can be very spiritual. It can be a union of soul partners to exchange their energies and merge into something much higher.

Reflections: Sexual Fantasies, Sex, Ego and Spirituality

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

I also have a hunch that when it comes to sexual fantasies men are again from Mars and women from Venus. I certainly have met many exceptions, but on average, I think the sexual fantasies of men are much more destructive.

Couldn't agree with this statement more, mainly because while I was reading your post I realized that several statements you made just didn't jive with me, and I think some of that is our gender. The two main themes you touched on that I don't agree with are:

1. You talked about being obsessed with size. I don't relate to this at all - some women may worry about chest size, but it's usually because they're worried men won't like a "flatter" chest. It's not an ego/size thing so much as an "Am I attractive?" thing. Plus I just don't think most women worry about being taller, having a bigger/more expensive car, etc. - size doesn't concern us as much. (This is all on average, of course, there are exceptions to every rule.)

2. You focused on the idea that in dreams, one partner must always be on top. Again, I've never noticed this in dreams or in life. In dream sex one person may physically be on top, but it's not something I notice or focus on, and it tends to switch back and forth - the main focus of the dream is that we're physically close and merging.

I read this quote by a couples therapist who said that women think of relationships in terms of uniting/merging, whereas men think of them as conquering. I agree to a large extent. I also read that in fights, men are the most upset (physiologically speaking, they measured it with instruments) when there is a battle for control, whereas women are the most upset if there is no loving language involved - which goes along perfectly with that quote I just mentioned. At the end of the day, I think women are less concerned with control and more concerned with the well-being of the couple, whereas with men it can be the opposite. Good to read your perspective on things!

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

I also have a hunch that when it comes to sexual fantasies men are again from Mars and women from Venus. I certainly have met many exceptions, but on average, I think the sexual fantasies of men are much more destructive.

"Destructive"?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Elrond

"Destructive"?

Right???

Choosing to focus on the destructive situations created by a handful of men is to miss out on all we design and build on a daily basis.

[zeitgeist]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Couldn't agree with this statement more, mainly because while I was reading your post I realized that several statements you made just didn't jive with me, and I think some of that is our gender. The two main themes you touched on that I don't agree with are:

1. You talked about being obsessed with size. I don't relate to this at all - some women may worry about chest size, but it's usually because they're worried men won't like a "flatter" chest. It's not an ego/size thing so much as an "Am I attractive?" thing. Plus I just don't think most women worry about being taller, having a bigger/more expensive car, etc. - size doesn't concern us as much. (This is all on average, of course, there are exceptions to every rule.)

2. You focused on the idea that in dreams, one partner must always be on top. Again, I've never noticed this in dreams or in life. In dream sex one person may physically be on top, but it's not something I notice or focus on, and it tends to switch back and forth - the main focus of the dream is that we're physically close and merging.

I read this quote by a couples therapist who said that women think of relationships in terms of uniting/merging, whereas men think of them as conquering. I agree to a large extent. I also read that in fights, men are the most upset (physiologically speaking, they measured it with instruments) when there is a battle for control, whereas women are the most upset if there is no loving language involved - which goes along perfectly with that quote I just mentioned. At the end of the day, I think women are less concerned with control and more concerned with the well-being of the couple, whereas with men it can be the opposite. Good to read your perspective on things!

Many thanks for your thoughtful response! Yet another reminder that women happen to be the better half ...

May your path be blessed,

Zeitgeist

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

Many thanks for your thoughtful response! Yet another reminder that women happen to be the better half ...

lawl, I love stuff like this.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Elrond

lawl, I love stuff like this.

Self hatred?

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Couldn't agree with this statement more, mainly because while I was reading your post I realized that several statements you made just didn't jive with me, and I think some of that is our gender. The two main themes you touched on that I don't agree with are:

1. You talked about being obsessed with size. I don't relate to this at all - some women may worry about chest size, but it's usually because they're worried men won't like a "flatter" chest. It's not an ego/size thing so much as an "Am I attractive?" thing. Plus I just don't think most women worry about being taller, having a bigger/more expensive car, etc. - size doesn't concern us as much. (This is all on average, of course, there are exceptions to every rule.)

2. You focused on the idea that in dreams, one partner must always be on top. Again, I've never noticed this in dreams or in life. In dream sex one person may physically be on top, but it's not something I notice or focus on, and it tends to switch back and forth - the main focus of the dream is that we're physically close and merging.

I read this quote by a couples therapist who said that women think of relationships in terms of uniting/merging, whereas men think of them as conquering. I agree to a large extent. I also read that in fights, men are the most upset (physiologically speaking, they measured it with instruments) when there is a battle for control, whereas women are the most upset if there is no loving language involved - which goes along perfectly with that quote I just mentioned. At the end of the day, I think women are less concerned with control and more concerned with the well-being of the couple, whereas with men it can be the opposite. Good to read your perspective on things!

I liked a lot of this.

Men and women truly have different motivations. And your comments are helping me understand some of them.

Although, I have to add in a twist to what you said about women being focused on the well-being of the couple, and on connection & love, etc. I think that women are focused on "lovingness" as their own way of controlling the relationship, not just because they are sugar, spice and everything nice.

Traditionally, women are the weak sex and men are the strong. As animals and early humans (and even humans today), males would dominate each other and "conquer" - thus our sexual fantasies of conquering women, which some people have called destructive. Females, as the physically weaker sex, gained control in their own ways by controlling the emotions of the strongest men. So if a woman is able to keep a strong man in love with & desiring her, then she gets the rewards of that strong man protecting her, providing for her, etc.

I heard a funny saying once, "men control the world and women control the men", and I would have to say it just about sums it up!

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Self hatred?

No. More accurately I "love" stuff like that, if you get what I mean.

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

I liked a lot of this.

Men and women truly have different motivations. And your comments are helping me understand some of them.

Although, I have to add in a twist to what you said about women being focused on the well-being of the couple, and on connection & love, etc. I think that women are focused on "lovingness" as their own way of controlling the relationship, not just because they are sugar, spice and everything nice.

Traditionally, women are the weak sex and men are the strong. As animals and early humans (and even humans today), males would dominate each other and "conquer" - thus our sexual fantasies of conquering women, which some people have called destructive. Females, as the physically weaker sex, gained control in their own ways by controlling the emotions of the strongest men. So if a woman is able to keep a strong man in love with & desiring her, then she gets the rewards of that strong man protecting her, providing for her, etc.

I heard a funny saying once, "men control the world and women control the men", and I would have to say it just about sums it up!

Ooh, I like what you said there! I couldn't agree more. For whatever evolutionary reason, women are more focused on maintaining a sense of well-being in relationships, and most of it IS selfish. If a woman's mate isn't pleased, she risks not having anyone to protect her or provide for her children. This one study found that women are far faster than men at picking an angry face out of the crowd - but only if that angry face is male. Everyone takes longer to spot the angry woman - we're just not as physically threatening.

[Lionman]

There's nothing wrong with sexual conquering, it's just where it comes from that counts.

If a woman is feeling bad, a real man can penetrate her mood and blast it to smitherines with love. It's a good thing and underpins a passionate sexual dynamic. Not a platonic friendly dynamic, but a passionate one.

As a man, I'd suggest owning your inate sexual drive and using your testosterone in the best possible way, to ravage the living hell out of your woman so she's completely fullfilled afterwards.

When done in an unselfish way, it's not destructive. It's like the seemingly violent passion that brought the universe into existance.

[themaster]

Imagine for a second that we were one consciousness

Then imagine for a second we decided to play a game.. of "who we are not" this is the game of genders and separation..

My understanding is that the qualities we are attracted to are.. our own qualities separated from us.. and that gender roles of masculine and feminine are brought together into balance in our "new age".. or so I'm told

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by themaster

Imagine for a second that we were one consciousness

Then imagine for a second we decided to play a game.. of "who we are not" this is the game of genders and separation..

My understanding is that the qualities we are attracted to are.. our own qualities separated from us.. and that gender roles of masculine and feminine are brought together into balance in our "new age".. or so I'm told

Yeah, sex is the merging of opposites at the end of the day. Merging masculine and feminine inside yourself gives inner peace, but on the same hand neutralises any sexual spark between yourself and the opposite gender.

Enlightening it is, but I'd liken it to the choice to not participate in life on this planet. In a sense dying to the world and choosing not to have polar participation.

Aquarius (re: new age) is an androgenous sign, so I see where you're coming from. You can already see it's signs in the mass media and popular music ('Lady' Gaga?).

Personally though, the whole concept of androgeny doesn't sit well with me and sounds rather boring. I'm hoping it's just a stage before even stronger polarization.

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by Lionman

Yeah, sex is the merging of opposites at the end of the day. Merging masculine and feminine inside yourself gives inner peace, but on the same hand neutralises any sexual spark between yourself and the opposite gender.

Enlightening it is, but I'd liken it to the choice to not participate in life on this planet. In a sense dying to the world and choosing not to have polar participation.

Aquarius (re: new age) is an androgenous sign, so I see where you're coming from. You can already see it's signs in the mass media and popular music ('Lady' Gaga?).

Personally though, the whole concept of androgeny doesn't sit well with me and sounds rather boring. I'm hoping it's just a stage before even stronger polarization.

What about choosing what energy (masculine or feminine) you want to polarize to (and to what degree) at any given moment? I'm not talking about doing it for social acceptability or because one is more "spiritually pure" (it's not), but because you enjoy that state?
That's what I see we're moving to. (Although it's not "wrong" if it's not your gig, of course.)

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

What about choosing what energy (masculine or feminine) you want to polarize to (and to what degree) at any given moment? I'm not talking about doing it for social acceptability or because one is more "spiritually pure" (it's not), but because you enjoy that state?
That's what I see we're moving to. (Although it's not "wrong" if it's not your gig, of course.)

Most people do this automatically, roughly speaking (they like being dominantly one of the energies most of the time, even if they might accept some societal baggage that they don't really like that is tied to that energy and they would be freer without).

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

Many thanks for your thoughtful response! Yet another reminder that women happen to be the better half ...

In my experience, if someone had said that men are the better half, this thread would have probably stirred up a lot of controversy and attention and maybe had like 100 replies to it by now (see for example the "women are from earth, men are from eternity" thread).



An observation.

[Lionman]

Originally Posted by Elrond

In my experience, if someone had said that men are the better half, this thread would have probably stirred up a lot of controversy and attention and maybe had like 100 replies to it by now (see for example the "women are from earth, men are from eternity" thread).



An observation.

It's probably because the feminine was undervalued in our culture in the past, so it opens up old wounds.

You can see this dynamic everywhere. You can walk into a bookstore, music shop or wherever and they'd happily have a section called "Celebrating Black History" or something. But of course you wouldn't have a "Celebrating White History" section.

It's only allowed because it comes from a sense of being victimized, from either past or present. People don't get upset at it (in general) because they realize that this particular group needs a bit of a confidence boost.

[James81]

Originally Posted by zeitgeist

Many thanks for your thoughtful response! Yet another reminder that women happen to be the better half ...

I think we would solve all relationships in this very moment, if the world, and our cultures, would stop thinking of the differences between men and women as "better" or "worse."

We could HEAL all relationships this very moment, if people could see that what you see in another, are things that you are trying to see in yourself in some way, and give us clues to who we are.

The "gender war" rages on because each side defends their position, thus creating resistance...resistance that distracts us all from, what I consider to be, the highest truth: THERE IS ONLY ONE OF US.

I garauntee you that if you walk out of your house right now and looked around at the people that are bustling about, and you saw them as you see yourself...and you treated them as you would treat yourself....and treat yourself as you would treat them....all of the issues and problems that exist in relationships would vanish. And we'd all be sitting around thinking, "Holy shite, was Houdini here? What the hell happened?"

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by James81

I think we would solve all relationships in this very moment, if the world, and our cultures, would stop thinking of the differences between men and women as "better" or "worse."

We could HEAL all relationships this very moment, if people could see that what you see in another, are things that you are trying to see in yourself in some way, and give us clues to who we are.

The "gender war" rages on because each side defends their position, thus creating resistance...resistance that distracts us all from, what I consider to be, the highest truth: THERE IS ONLY ONE OF US.

I garauntee you that if you walk out of your house right now and looked around at the people that are bustling about, and you saw them as you see yourself...and you treated them as you would treat yourself....and treat yourself as you would treat them....all of the issues and problems that exist in relationships would vanish. And we'd all be sitting around thinking, "Holy shite, was Houdini here? What the hell happened?"

Beautiful post Thankyou

err...uh...Thankme?

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by James81

I think we would solve all relationships in this very moment, if the world, and our cultures, would stop thinking of the differences between men and women as "better" or "worse."

We could HEAL all relationships this very moment, if people could see that what you see in another, are things that you are trying to see in yourself in some way, and give us clues to who we are.

The "gender war" rages on because each side defends their position, thus creating resistance...resistance that distracts us all from, what I consider to be, the highest truth: THERE IS ONLY ONE OF US.

I garauntee you that if you walk out of your house right now and looked around at the people that are bustling about, and you saw them as you see yourself...and you treated them as you would treat yourself....and treat yourself as you would treat them....all of the issues and problems that exist in relationships would vanish. And we'd all be sitting around thinking, "Holy shite, was Houdini here? What the hell happened?"

Awesome post.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Lionman

It's probably because the feminine was undervalued in our culture in the past, so it opens up old wounds.

You can see this dynamic everywhere. You can walk into a bookstore, music shop or wherever and they'd happily have a section called "Celebrating Black History" or something. But of course you wouldn't have a "Celebrating White History" section.

It's only allowed because it comes from a sense of being victimized, from either past or present. People don't get upset at it (in general) because they realize that this particular group needs a bit of a confidence boost.

I'm gonna assume that by "feminime" you mean "female", or traditionally female values.

Trust me, I understand quite well how society creates this phenomenom. The current zeitgeist is much more sensitive to sexism against women than men, meaning that it is much more easily picked up and critiqued by the average person. This has historical reasons since there has been a movement in the last hundred or so years to get equal legal rights for women. This has done a lot of good for women, and it has also conditioned society to view sexism and discrimination as something that befalls primarily women and minorities, although this is in this day and age an outdated notion ("outdated" is misleading, because things like sexism has never been something that was exclusively used against women, but I digress). Thus we have a society that is keenly aware of anything that might be sexist against women, while it deems the other side of the coin, sexism against men, as something so strange and rare as to give it the bigoted name "reverse sexism". Even though there are plenty of ways in which men as a whole are more disadvantaged than women (wether that is due to sexism or not).

Most women today have lived in a time that is pretty egalitarian as far as rights and opportunities goes, though things aren't really egalitarian enough, if one would believe popular opinion. Both sexes have their griefs, and a lot of the "old wounds" you talk about is things that most modern women haven't experienced, or have the freedom to avoid experiencing if they choose; that women used to not be allowed to vote, that they didn't have many ways of making their own money, that women in Iran get stoned for adultery etc.

Unfairness is not restricted to harming women.And I'm not even refering to something like "well some men rape women, but you should know that 5% of all rapists are women that rape men!" I'm not talking about the one time out of a hundred that a black man from the projects will force a white man who grew up in the upper middle class to work for minimum wage for him instead of the other way around. No, I'm not talking about some rare occurence that only happens every full moon. I'm talking about something that is perhaps almost as widespread as the "reverse", more popular and PC thing to talk about. Maybe even more widespread.



But like I said, it's just an observation. An amusing one, I'll add.


I could comment on more of the specific things you said or implied, but in trying to not write a too essay-long post, I will try to limit myself. I will say though

because they realize that this particular group needs a bit of a confidence boost.

that they don't need any more of a confidence boost than other people. Trust me, in my experience women don't feel limited by their gender. We don't need to fix them from having low self-esteem. We don't establish programs to "boost the confidence" of jews even if they are the most hated and abused people through history; they don't think of the Holocaust and think "man we must have been bad to deserve that, what did we do wrong?!!?" Praising women, due to our history, is just a more PC thing to do. Last year, Obama exalted women on mothers day (or women's day or something), said that they are amazing and that they can do anything a man can do. On fathers day, he chastised men for being absent fathers. It's a funny world.