Dads are Parents too!!!

[LockedHeart]

I am the father of a 17 y boy and 16 y girl. Until last summer I had custody of 17 b. His mother deceived the court and got custody while she had him over summer break and I was not even notified of hearing and now I cannot even see him. What is up with that?

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

I am the father of a 17 y boy and 16 y girl. Until last summer I had custody of 17 b. His mother deceived the court and got custody while she had him over summer break and I was not even notified of hearing and now I cannot even see him. What is up with that?

There is a court bias for females in cases like these. Although it seems at these ages the kids would have a say. What does he want?

[shasah]

Interested in what people have to say, so ....

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

There is a court bias for females in cases like these. Although it seems at these ages the kids would have a say. What does he want?

In April, he argued with his mom that he wanted to stay with me and she kicked him out of her house. After I drove the 400+ miles to pick him up, she filed a runaway warrent for him. At court, because she has sole custody, she got to say whether he pled guilty or not guilty and be put on probation which means he cannot leave the state. Is there any question what she decided he should plead?

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

In April, he argued with his mom that he wanted to stay with me and she kicked him out of her house. After I drove the 400+ miles to pick him up, she filed a runaway warrent for him. At court, because she has sole custody, she got to say whether he pled guilty or not guilty and be put on probation which means he cannot leave the state. Is there any question what she decided he should plead?

Ahh....there is such disrespect for minors these days. It hurts everyone. I'm truly sorry about your situation.

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

Ahh....there is such disrespect for minors these days. It hurts everyone. I'm truly sorry about your situation.

He is by no means innocent in the situation. For 6 yrs, I had custody of him and I taught him not to be disrespectful to his mother and he did not treat her as he should have!!! However, her ploy was simply a means of controling him and me. I have seen many mothers harm thier children's emotions horribly by "playing" them against thier Dads. WHY? Do the mothers hate the dads more than they love thier own children? Do the mother not realize what they are doing to thier own children?

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

He is by no means innocent in the situation. For 6 yrs, I had custody of him and I taught him not to be disrespectful to his mother and he did not treat her as he should have!!! However, her ploy was simply a means of controling him and me. I have seen many mothers harm thier children's emotions horribly by "playing" them against thier Dads. WHY? Do the mothers hate the dads more than they love thier own children? Do the mother not realize what they are doing to thier own children?

I didn't mean to say *you* were disrespecting him, but that the court system was, and that it should have been obvious to them how that situation could have been taken advantage of (by his mother). Once again, I'm really sorry, that sounds like a mess. When does he turn 18? You'll be able to him then, won't you?

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

I didn't mean to say *you* were disrespecting him, but that the court system was, and that it should have been obvious to them how that situation could have been taken advantage of (by his mother). Once again, I'm really sorry, that sounds like a mess. When does he turn 18? You'll be able to him then, won't you?

He will be 18 in March of 2011. However, he is on probation until he is 19. I could move back to Tennessee but then I risk loosing custody of my 3 yr old son.. which would put him in an even worse situation that his older brother. They have different moms but the youngest one's mom is 10 times worse than the older one's. What a continuing saga that one is....

[secrets0stolen]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

He will be 18 in March of 2011. However, he is on probation until he is 19. I could move back to Tennessee but then I risk loosing custody of my 3 yr old son.. which would put him in an even worse situation that his older brother. They have different moms but the youngest one's mom is 10 times worse than the older one's. What a continuing saga that one is....

My cousin's in a similar situation. Not much advice I can really give at this point
Our court system has a lot of flaws.

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by secrets0stolen

My cousin's in a similar situation. Not much advice I can really give at this point
Our court system has a lot of flaws.

The primary thing that I would seek advice about is the emotion aspects. How do u cope in a situation like this?

[Noelle]

I'm really sorry to hear that, apparently society believes fathers are generally not as good parents as mothers for some reason. I think it is very unfair, as there are some fine fathers like yourself who get discriminated against because of this silly prejudice! About the emotional impacts to yourself and your son, you should just think he will be 19 soon and no longer on probation, and then he can decide for himself where he wants to live, so this situation is only temporary.

[Sarah Wilson]

I felt sorry to hear about your struggles to perform your parental responsibilities with your kids. But our laws sometimes have biases when it comes to who's gonna be responsible for parental custody of the children, in most cases according to the statistics of the woman getting custody and child support in a divorce over the man, it says 95.5% all favors for the woman and the man gets shafted, and the husband had to pay support and get only visitations. I say it depends upon the state and the parental competency of the person (although in Michigan the woman wins no matter what and the state isn't interested in true justice for the loser or the kids, I've seen a man get it up the tailpipe by the state because it chooses to believe the several women, only 2 of which he even met and been with, despite DNA and a federal order to release the man's license so he could get work).

[SarahLuvzYu]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

I have seen many mothers harm thier children's emotions horribly by "playing" them against thier Dads. WHY? Do the mothers hate the dads more than they love thier own children? Do the mother not realize what they are doing to thier own children?

I wouldn't generalize, it may be in your case; but in others it's the complete other way around.

[Chris_1977]

Originally Posted by SarahLuvzYu

I wouldn't generalize, it may be in your case; but in others it's the complete other way around.

Actually, I would generalize this.... It is very unwise for a parent to vilify the other parent. Children are smart enough to ask themselves the question "If my father is a jerk, what does that make me? Half a jerk?" This has undoubtedly backfired towards the mother already and will do so even more in the future.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by SarahLuvzYu

I wouldn't generalize, it may be in your case; but in others it's the complete other way around.

He's not generalizing. He's talking about his experience...

[Chris_1977]

To the OP: you might want to think about joining or starting some kind of organization that tries to influence lawmakers regarding this issue. In my country such an organization exists.

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by SarahLuvzYu

I wouldn't generalize, it may be in your case; but in others it's the complete other way around.

I am not generalizing or stereotyping. Notice my wording. I spoke of a situation then said "the mothers", refering specifically to the mothers in that situation. The problem that I have encountered is that men are stereotyped in the law. I have, for 2 years, been fighting to keep custody of my 3 year old son. His mother is an abusive mother who abandoned him. Why is there even a chance that she can get custody and why does she get to contunually take me back to court over stupid stuff when after 9 or more court appearances in 2 different states I have always retained custody?

[metamorph]

I agree there is a bias against men in this area. Don't know how to help you with the emotional part, but at least your son is almost an adult. What are his plans for the future (college, uni, work etc)?.

[James81]

Originally Posted by LockedHeart

I am not generalizing or stereotyping. Notice my wording. I spoke of a situation then said "the mothers", refering specifically to the mothers in that situation. The problem that I have encountered is that men are stereotyped in the law. I have, for 2 years, been fighting to keep custody of my 3 year old son. His mother is an abusive mother who abandoned him. Why is there even a chance that she can get custody and why does she get to contunually take me back to court over stupid stuff when after 9 or more court appearances in 2 different states I have always retained custody?

First of all, let me just say that I feel for you, man. If I lost my kids in a situation like this, I would be pretty upset. Actually, I DID lose them for about 2 weeks back when I was going through a divorce. Those 2 weeks were devastating to me.

So, let me offer you a perspective and some advice from one single father to another.

First of all, the court systems in this country are what they are. At least they are what they are at this time in our lives. Perhaps one day there'll be some effective changes made, but until that day comes (perhaps this situation will motivate you to become activate in instrumenting that change), it is what it is. So, first of all, accepting that (instead of giving your power and emotions to it) is crucial to gaining a perspective that will be effective. Acceptance does not mean agreement, btw. Acceptance just means expressing your anger and frustration about it, THEN letting it go instead of harboring it. Letting it go, letting it flow out of you (in whatever way you do that, whether it be through writing or some physical activity or whatever, will allow you to center yourself and to at least have it not activate you anymore, as opposed to wallowing in a "woe is me, it's so unfair" kind of state. (trust me, I've been there )

Once you've expressed and let go of your emotions surrounding it, and you've accepted things the way they are, you can then begin to look for effective solutions. I like to think of things in a "kung fu" kind of approach, where you take a situation or some form of resistance and you use that resistance as your strength (as opposed to resisting it yourself, putting you in that "locked horns" state).

I think that if you were to allow yourself to express your anger (in a way that isn't going to worsen the situation), let go of it, and then choose a higher, more effective perspective, that you would see the situation literally transform before your eyes.

[votoshka]

Oh wow! You can charge a 17 year old with being a runaway in the US? That is the most shocking thing to me about this... what a messed up situation! (I am pretty sure that even if a 17 year old in Australia ran away the courts would just judge them old enough to leave...)

I am really sorry for you having to go through with this! I can't offer any advice, unfortunately

I think the upside here is that your son will soon be 18 and will be old enough to make his own choices. But still, I imagine how heartbreaking it must be for you being unable to see him.

[ssandra]

Is there any way you can get your child an independent lawyer? I should think he is old enough to have a say in this situation... and him being a playing ball between his mom and dad doesn't seem fair.

Maybe with some representation of his own, there will be at least one impartial person who looks out for HIS best interest?

[ssandra]

Interesting take on the US court system when it comes to divorce and child support:

The Deadbeat Dad Myth - Violent Acres

[Honeywith4bees]

I feel for you LockedHeart but its hard for me to hear these stories and not chime in with mine.

I'm the sole financial supporter of my four children. Last week, when I drove the kids the half hour to his house (he doesn't have a working car), he handed me $100 because he "happened to have some extra money". He gets his visits twice a week yet rarely bothers to give any financial support to them.

My current husband has full custody of all of his children as well and also does not receive any financial support from the children's mother because she (like my ex husband) has chosen to be unemployed.

I know that we are giving support to the OP in this thread, but I just needed to point out that its not always the evil ex wife sucking the poor man out of all his money and ruining his relationship with his children.

[Elrond]

That's terrible LH.

I wonder if anyone can argue that the US is patriarchal on the family level, when marriage and child custody is biased so much against men.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Elrond

That's terrible LH.

I wonder if anyone can argue that the US is patriarchal on the family level, when marriage and child custody is biased so much against men.

Isn't it patriarchal to work from the bias that women are better caregivers for children? Men work, women bear and raise kids - isn't that rather patriarchal?

Anyway, LockedHeart, I do not have any suggestions really, but I understand this must be quite hard to handle. If you're interested in dealing with the emotions from this, I might suggest exploring EFT, journaling, vigorous exercise, or mindfulness techniques (like meditation and simply being with the feelings - being with them, not acting on them - until they fade on their own).

I, too, find it interesting that a 17yo got into this situation, but I guess if the legal age of adulthood is 18 it is technically on the side of the law.

I don't have enough direct experience to critique the court system, but I do know the courts sometimes take a while to catch up with the times. I also know there's research that suggests women often form stronger attachment bonds with their offspring - though I am sure many people here could offer valid exceptions. It would be nice if the courts had the resources and dedication to evaluate every case individually, without letting in bias and prejudice based on past trends. It seems part of the issue is the sheer number of couples going through divorce and child custody cases - the resources just don't seem to be there at this point, to create an opportunity to evaluate each case with the proper depth.

[ssandra]

I truly do believe that a lot would be solved if children (no matter what age) would be appointed a lawyer by the court who only works in their (the childrens) best interest.

[rei]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I truly do believe that a lot would be solved if children (no matter what age) would be appointed a lawyer by the court who only works in their (the childrens) best interest.

I agree, in some ways. It is sad to see many children be treated as property or weapons. On the one hand, the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed yet, so there is some science behind the idea of being under the care of an adult, but I do think it would be really helpful to get children in a neutral place, away from others involved, to find out what they want and see how that fits with their own best interest.

On the other hand, being under the protection of the state isn't necessarily a perfect option either. Most legal aid folks are quite overworked and underpaid - they tend to do their best anyway, though, in an imperfect system.

[rei]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I truly do believe that a lot would be solved if children (no matter what age) would be appointed a lawyer by the court who only works in their (the childrens) best interest.

Hmm. I think what I would like to see is a massive process to heal people's pain (or collaborate and arm everyone with the tools to do so) so the cycle of passing it on doesn't continue.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by rei

On the other hand, being under the protection of the state isn't necessarily a perfect option either. Most legal aid folks are quite overworked and underpaid - they tend to do their best anyway, though, in an imperfect system.

I didn't mean for them to be under the protection of the state in that system. I just mean, in every court transaction between the mom and dad, the lawyer of the children is there to make sure that whatever happens, is in the best interest of the children.

An impartial person who looks at allegations of abuse from the child's point of view.

An impartial person who looks at who should get custody from a child's point of view.

Still, the child will remain with their parents and will continue to be under the custody of the parents.

But just someone who speaks up for the right of the child, without having a secondary agenda...

[LockedHeart]

Originally Posted by James81

First of all, let me just say that I feel for you, man. If I lost my kids in a situation like this, I would be pretty upset. Actually, I DID lose them for about 2 weeks back when I was going through a divorce. Those 2 weeks were devastating to me.

So, let me offer you a perspective and some advice from one single father to another.

First of all, the court systems in this country are what they are. At least they are what they are at this time in our lives. Perhaps one day there'll be some effective changes made, but until that day comes (perhaps this situation will motivate you to become activate in instrumenting that change), it is what it is. So, first of all, accepting that (instead of giving your power and emotions to it) is crucial to gaining a perspective that will be effective. Acceptance does not mean agreement, btw. Acceptance just means expressing your anger and frustration about it, THEN letting it go instead of harboring it. Letting it go, letting it flow out of you (in whatever way you do that, whether it be through writing or some physical activity or whatever, will allow you to center yourself and to at least have it not activate you anymore, as opposed to wallowing in a "woe is me, it's so unfair" kind of state. (trust me, I've been there )

Once you've expressed and let go of your emotions surrounding it, and you've accepted things the way they are, you can then begin to look for effective solutions. I like to think of things in a "kung fu" kind of approach, where you take a situation or some form of resistance and you use that resistance as your strength (as opposed to resisting it yourself, putting you in that "locked horns" state).

I think that if you were to allow yourself to express your anger (in a way that isn't going to worsen the situation), let go of it, and then choose a higher, more effective perspective, that you would see the situation literally transform before your eyes.

Point taken and agreed with completely!!! Understand that I am not in a woe is me attitude. My anger is properly placed and directed in a manner to benifit the situation. I so much want to start an activist organization to help fathers in similar situations and to create a united voice to be heard by courts and lawmakers nationwide. I dont know how to do that, YET!!!

ok while typing this, I made a first step in creating a united voice. My facebook page now has a group attached to it. Feel free to visit it and make any suggestions you think would be apropriate:
Dads are parents too | Facebook