being more superficial

[rei]

Seriously. I have found a thread that connects several different concerns and it boils down to being too deep in some situations, in where I gather information for the moment-to-moment experience. Being deep can become a problem because all that "invisible" data can sometimes overshadow the "data" closer to my face. Plus plenty of folks don't enjoy it when you address something they haven't literally, directly, verbally said... Whoopsy daisy

So... what are some ways you can think of which would create (more) superficiality in interactions?

By superficial, I don't really mean small talk or talk about the latest big news story, though I guess that is part of it. Really I mean more like ways to just be in the room with the person talking and just hear their verbal communication - ya know, the way a majority of people communicate.

(Perhaps this should have been posted in the Spirituality section or the Psychic section, but as it's mainly about socializing I put it here.)

I hesitate to act on any adjustments that could be 'permanent' because I draw from that deeper-tuning in other situations and would prefer to keep my easy access available. But I would love to be able to turn it down or 'switch' to superficial mode.

(I have come across a suggestion that amounts to seeing people as furniture, but have yet to quite work out what that looks like.)

So if you have ideas for ways a person can become MORE superficial in their interactions with people, I'll appreciate hearing them

[ssandra]

Pretty sure you already know these tricks but wanted to put them out there anyway...

You can really listen to the words people say. Reflect on their words, not on the feeling you are getting from them.

Maybe see them as if you are watching tv. Pretend you are in some tv show, just playing your part?

Maybe use an energy shield and set an intention before going into a social situation to just hear the words and not pick up anything else?

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by rei

(I have come across a suggestion that amounts to seeing people as furniture, but have yet to quite work out what that looks like.)

LOL

How about furniture in its underwear?

Along those lines, I should think humor would work in just about any situation. Sounds like you just need to find your funny button.

[elucidate]

Wow. I've been wanting to learn this for a while...being more superficial, shallow even. I like what ssandra says, and I think I have started to apply solipsists idea in my life as well. Humour is a cure-all.

I need to learn how to turn off the counsellor in me and just be able to listen on a more surface level and have fun...for me, as well as the other people present.

Originally Posted by rei

Seriously. I have found a thread that connects several different concerns and it boils down to being too deep in some situations, in where I gather information for the moment-to-moment experience. Being deep can become a problem because all that "invisible" data can sometimes overshadow the "data" closer to my face. Plus plenty of folks don't enjoy it when you address something they haven't literally, directly, verbally said... Whoopsy daisy

So... what are some ways you can think of which would create (more) superficiality in interactions?

By superficial, I don't really mean small talk or talk about the latest big news story, though I guess that is part of it. Really I mean more like ways to just be in the room with the person talking and just hear their verbal communication - ya know, the way a majority of people communicate.

(Perhaps this should have been posted in the Spirituality section or the Psychic section, but as it's mainly about socializing I put it here.)

I hesitate to act on any adjustments that could be 'permanent' because I draw from that deeper-tuning in other situations and would prefer to keep my easy access available. But I would love to be able to turn it down or 'switch' to superficial mode.

(I have come across a suggestion that amounts to seeing people as furniture, but have yet to quite work out what that looks like.)

So if you have ideas for ways a person can become MORE superficial in their interactions with people, I'll appreciate hearing them

[rei]

Furniture in its underwear Hehe very nice!

I actually made an awesome joke earlier today, like the person thought it was funny enough they called someone to talk about it.

Hmm, yes Sandra I am familiar with those ideas but they are still great suggestions!

I think for me, the snag I run into with this stuff, is like I "hear" the deeper levels more loudly. Even when I am really focused on what people are saying it's like the deeper layers will randomly get louder than the surface layer - and before I know it I'm responding to the deeper layers... like I need to learn 'reverse mindfulness' or something lol. But I could make more of an effort to pay stronger attention on the surface. I mean, I feel like I am doing that already - and it's like there will be moments where the deeper layer starts to scream or something - but maybe I'm not really paying enough attention on the surface.

[rei]

Oh, Sandra, I like the idea of making it like a tv show. Have heard that before but not sure I've tried it so I will the next chance I get!

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by rei

I think for me, the snag I run into with this stuff, is like I "hear" the deeper levels more loudly. Even when I am really focused on what people are saying it's like the deeper layers will randomly get louder than the surface layer - and before I know it I'm responding to the deeper layers... like I need to learn 'reverse mindfulness' or something lol. But I could make more of an effort to pay stronger attention on the surface. I mean, I feel like I am doing that already - and it's like there will be moments where the deeper layer starts to scream or something - but maybe I'm not really paying enough attention on the surface.

It's odd (as I've never really looked at it like this before) but I can relate to this. I don't think I can get as "deep" as you can, but I think I know where you're coming from. In my experience, it's not "screaming," as it is just more powerful.

The difference between us, it seems, is that you're doing something professional with this, no? I am not, so I can keep it superficial with humor.

Otherwise, I don't see the need to change anything. Why deny an obvious gift?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

It's odd (as I've never really looked at it like this before) but I can relate to this. I don't think I can get as "deep" as you can, but I think I know where you're coming from. In my experience, it's not "screaming," as it is just more powerful.

The difference between us, it seems, is that you're doing something professional with this, no? I am not, so I can keep it superficial with humor.

Otherwise, I don't see the need to change anything. Why deny an obvious gift?

Yes, it's definitely a gift (thanks for the reminder ). I am not trying to do away with it, and really I don't think it is anything unique - I think we all tap into it, and perhaps there's just different levels of conscious awareness for that tapping-in process.

And yeah, I guess the deeper level often ends up more powerful as you said. I just don't see it working as well in situations where it's more immediately appropriate to interact on the surface (plus I would rather stay on the surface when I'm deciding to interact that way).

Anyway, I am not trying to get rid of it completely. I would just like to be able to switch back and forth based on which layer I'm consciously choosing to focus on. For whatever reason it's quite difficult for me to just stay on the surface - as I said, even when I'm focused that way I'll find myself responding to the deeper stuff - and that irks people sometimes Plus, when you're meeting new people, it's generally preferable (in my own culture) to not go so deep into things.

I'd like to feel like I had more options instead of feeling like the deeper level overpowers my best genuine interest in the surface. Or at the very least, I'd like to develop some way of keeping the two layers separated instead of mixing deep info with surface communication (unless I'm specifically trying to do that, which I do in my work).

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by rei

Anyway, I am not trying to get rid of it completely. I would just like to be able to switch back and forth based on which layer I'm consciously choosing to focus on. For whatever reason it's quite difficult for me to just stay on the surface - as I said, even when I'm focused that way I'll find myself responding to the deeper stuff - and that irks people sometimes Plus, when you're meeting new people, it's generally preferable (in my own culture) to not go so deep into things.

This is where I'd start visualizing furniture and underwear.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

This is where I'd start visualizing furniture and underwear.

Indeed! Lovely sofa with a Tiffany shade

[alsy]

Hi rei,

have you thought of using intention and expectation to help manifest the desired experience within yourself?

Originally Posted by rei

I think for me, the snag I run into with this stuff, is like I "hear" the deeper levels more loudly. Even when I am really focused on what people are saying it's like the deeper layers will randomly get louder than the surface layer - and before I know it I'm responding to the deeper layers... like I need to learn 'reverse mindfulness' or something lol. But I could make more of an effort to pay stronger attention on the surface. I mean, I feel like I am doing that already - and it's like there will be moments where the deeper layer starts to scream or something - but maybe I'm not really paying enough attention on the surface.

Before i present this idea that came to mind, i would like to say something else first. I believe each of us has particular inclinations and balance of how we process information. What works for one, may not work for the other. Some people need the words, others the visuals, others need to process sound. Some are more "figure it out" type (left brain), others are more right brain.. I believe there is some sort of acknowledgement in the field of Neuro Linguistic Programming field.
What i offer here is visual. I have no idea if visuals are dominant part of your inclinations. In other words, you have to determine what modes are more natural and effective for you. I think all these different was are merely to get us into the essence of thought, and when connected to feeling, it kind of creates that quality of vibration that expresses itself into our experience in one way or another.

So here is the idea;

Visualise two volume controls. Think of an ipod, electronic radio box, or something on the computer. Whatever makes it most real for you.
Could be like a thumb nail volume control, a slider volume control, or if it works better for you; think of volume as digital numbers. eg 1 to 10 scale.
- One volume is for what you have been referring to as the "deeper stuff".
- The second volume control for what you referred to as "surface stuff".
At any time you notice an overwhelming balance, go for the manual adjustment. You might like to imagine a computer with software ( or beings/ guides) running the whole thing in balance.

[MidasGirl]

Rei, actually it occurs to me I have the same exact problem, if indeed you could call it a problem. I tend to be very intuitive when in interactive situations with people. I tend to be able to "hear" what people are saying that is beneath what they are actually saying. Sometimes you even pick up on denial that is going on. It's a bit frustrating actually cuz it seems to me like I'm moving in a world where the majority lives on a more superficial level, even when they are deeply entrenched with those around them. It sometimes feels like a "shutting out" that is going on.

Anyway, how I deal with it is I just become quiet and observe and listen and discern. And if the situation at hand is of relevance to my daily interactions, then I may decide to act upon my deep intuitive "pickings". Otherwise, if I don't need to be around said persons a whole lot, then I just consciously allow superficiality to guide our interaction. Did that make sense?

[rei]

@alsy: Thank you so much for the thoughtful response and suggestion. I have learned about using a two dial visualization for other settings, but never thought of applying it to this stuff. Thanks!

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Rei, actually it occurs to me I have the same exact problem, if indeed you could call it a problem. I tend to be very intuitive when in interactive situations with people. I tend to be able to "hear" what people are saying that is beneath what they are actually saying. Sometimes you even pick up on denial that is going on. It's a bit frustrating actually cuz it seems to me like I'm moving in a world where the majority lives on a more superficial level, even when they are deeply entrenched with those around them. It sometimes feels like a "shutting out" that is going on.

Anyway, how I deal with it is I just become quiet and observe and listen and discern. And if the situation at hand is of relevance to my daily interactions, then I may decide to act upon my deep intuitive "pickings". Otherwise, if I don't need to be around said persons a whole lot, then I just consciously allow superficiality to guide our interaction. Did that make sense?

Yes what you said about consciously allowing made sense. When you say you become quiet and observe and listen, does that also apply in an actual conversation with a person? If so, how do you apply being quiet when you're in a two-way interaction? Or do you mean you don't strike up as much conversation?

[MidasGirl]

Yes, it applies in an actual conversation as well. There are usually clues. Rambunctious loud persons for example, who want to dominate conversation, usually with grandiose stories that are designed to wow you. I usually try not to compete with them, but simply sit back and allow them to dominate, I give them whatever it is they are normally fighting so hard for: somebody that is not going to try to out-compete them with verbal grandiosity. Meanwhile, they'll give me a ton of clues as to what is really underneath the big huge persona. But if it's just a passing cloud, I let it pass. But I enjoy human behavior, I'm fascinated by it, so it IS like everyone I meet is a subject of study anyway.

When I say I apply superficiality, it means I match the person as they are. I get tempted to go deep, but most people aren't ready for you to go deep with them anyway. They aren't even facing their own deep side, so here you come and you're trying to get them to face a very uncomfortable side of themselves. I gather that you and I have this in common where we are "fixers", and we interact with people, discern something and feel like we *should* fix them. I don't mean to speak for you, but I know I am that way, hence have to consciously watch myself when I find myself get into "fix them" mode, unless they specifically ask.

[rei]

Hmm, you know, I am not sure I've even put this realization to the test yet. I think before I was just sliding into my natural tendency without even realizing it. Perhaps knowing this is the thread underlying those concerns can be the most helpful thing, as now I can pay more attention. Hopefully that will help in the situations where I start responding to the deeper stuff more than the surface stuff.

And I used to be a hardcore rescuer, yes. In some ways I know that pattern is still there in a less intense form but I've also made a lot of progress with it. When it comes to stuff like this, I'm not entirely sure whether I'm *looking for* pain or whether I am just tuned into the signals that person is sending out unconsciously. I think it can be either of those depending on the scenario.

Wait a sec... I just had some weird feeling experience about that statement. I think it is either about my own unresolved pain saying hi or it translates to the idea that part of this does boil down to looking for it still. Hmm. Also currently resonating with this idea that I grew up around a 'culture of pain,' where people connect based on what's 'wrong.' Wow. What a helpful realization.

I think it would help to get it in my head more strongly that people stuff things by their own choice and they will not tend to appreciate any 'help' with that which isn't specifically stated. I know that anyway but in some cases it's like their unconscious mind is asking very loudly. But that still doesn't mean they are consciously aware of it, and doesn't mean they want to be. And I suppose the unconscious levels are interacting all the time whether we're bringing it conscious or not.

I choose to acknowledge, reaffirm and trust that we're all where we want to be.

Okay so now... I have a natural preference for deeper connections, like I love to talk with total strangers about the meaning of life and tbh I have typically found convos about talk show hosts, pop music and such to be rather draining (because I've had a resistance to it... ooh I just unconvered a carefully disguised elitist attitude toward stuff like that). I would enjoy developing a greater interest in more superficial connections. Wonder how I might go about that.

I am thinking that uncovering that elitist attitude is already helping. Nice.

[Angela]

A few things a person could do to generate freedom in the conversation and still feel free to trust her own intuition would be to:

#1 -- ask for permission to to mind read. I don't mean "psychic" mind-reading, necessarily. I mean responding to what you think people are saying rather than responding to what they're actually saying. To listen generously to what they're saying, to hear them the way they want to be heard, and only then to literally ask permission to mind read. Like, "I hear you saying xyz, have I got that right? {they respond, etc., close loop} I think I'm hearing something in what you're saying, would it be ok if I mind-read/use my intuition/thin slice a bit here?"

#2 -- acknowledge both to them and to yourself that your mind-reading/thin slicing/intuition is not The Truth about that person. It's your perceptions, however accurate you may find them to be, and it's filtered through your human filters. It's important, I think, to not stop at acknowledging that to them, but also to remind yourself, so that you're not BEING "I know you better than you know yourself" -- which can generate a space of no freedom in the conversation.

#3 -- be curious, ask questions, use metaphors, and check out the response you get when you mind-read, more often than just informing people of your intuitive impressions. Be open and generous about receiving feedback, grant people the freedom to respond or react to you in whatever way is right for them, without making it mean anything about yourself, and get the learnings from their feedback that will benefit you both the most.

I feel that if one is generating a space of freedom (without which love won't flourish) in conversation, there's no need to restrain the conversation to superficiality; I find that people as long as they feel free, safe, and honored in conversation will tend to go deep, deep, deep -- even in situations where people don't traditionally go, like casual conversations or even conversations with someone I haven't known long.

[rei]

Thanks, Angela, I would agree that all of the ideas you listed are generally helpful to apply to interactions.

I don't know if I would call this mind-reading. Responding to what I think people are saying fits something I can do in certain ways of being, but doesn't quite feel like what I'm getting at here as it tends to be beyond verbalization and happens in conflict-free settings. Although that framework doesn't feel like it quite fits the OP topic, it's something I can certainly reflect on and apply in other ways, so I appreciate that.

I guess when I first reflect on the idea of having more freedom in conversation, what comes up for me is the idea of easily, naturally staying more superficial when I want to because as it is now I don't easily, naturally do it in every case and would like to have that option. One reason I'm looking at ways to relate more superficially is because I have not always felt like I had much choice about accessing the more unconscious levels as I experience them, and I don't enjoy when that creates friction but I can easily see how it could. So I do experience this sort of thing as a sense of pressure to achieve ability to naturally relate in that other way. Granted that's not the most inspiring way to motivate myself but currently when I reflect on the idea of just creating freedom, it feels like I'll very easily slip right back into that deeper way.

#1 I think this one can help more once I address, to the best of my ability, the tendency to be gathering deeper info constantly. I don't think it would be possible to hear that level (as I experience it through my filters) unless I had permission in some form, but I get that conscious level permission is more what you mean here.

I also see that approaching it in terms of asking permission first could be a way to create a pause in the tendency to just go with it. But see I also think I could more easily pause that whole pattern if I had a way to easily turn it down and relate on the surface. I accept responsibility for more easily accessing less superficial levels but I don't like that I feel limited to that - which is why I made it the topic of this thread.

#2 Is a bit triggering, but certainly helpful. Of course the information I receive is not truth in an ultimate sense. Oh. Wow, this is a harsh realization. I grew up feeling like my version of the truth was not allowed to count, and here I have been injecting that same pattern into things at times. Youch. But helpful.

#3 I can certainly bring this into my interactions more. Which will be easier as I consider more that the conscious and unconscious levels are different, are often separated, and even accessing intuitive information is a subjective experience.

I agree with you about freedom in conversations. In some settings I wonder if it's going to be approached differently in the first place, say a job interview with someone who has not met you before. It seems in my experience there's certain expectations and boundaries set up in a professional setting like that, especially if the profession has a tendency to look down on anything that might be called woowoo. Yes, we could say I just create that setup if I think it's there, but then if I just walk into it expecting a space of freedom to be welcomed and accepted, that could backfire.

But anyway, I just got stung by a bee and I'm allergic to them so I am probably out of the convo for now. Thanks again for the reply.

[Kishka]

Rei how do you interact with long-time friends? Is it always on a very deep level or do you all talk about things that are just silly for the heck of it?

I get the impression that now that you delve into the deep on a professional level, you would like to be able to leave it behind when you're not at work. Is that the case?

I agree with the advice to view it all as a script you have written for yourself. Who's to say that there is any *deep* side to anyone in your subjective reality?

Another thought, instead of trying to go deep with certain people or change yourself to be more superficial...simply hang around people who allow you to be yourself...deep or whatever the case may be.

As far as job interviews or job settings, it rarely gets deep, it's just about relaying facts and getting the job done...

Interesting topic, I'd like to hear how it all works out for you!

[Angela]

Oh, my goodness! Owch about the bee - sending mental healing to that!

Just a couple of things, when you get back:

Originally Posted by rei

I don't know if I would call this mind-reading. Responding to what I think people are saying fits something I can do in certain ways of being, but doesn't quite feel like what I'm getting at here as it tends to be beyond verbalization and happens in conflict-free settings. Although that framework doesn't feel like it quite fits the OP topic, it's something I can certainly reflect on and apply in other ways, so I appreciate that.

I used the term "mind-reading" as short-hand for accessing any data that is not consciously intended, direct verbal communication -- that is, what the person is literally saying to you and consciously wants you to *get* from them. I think that is on the topic of your OP:

..all that "invisible" data can sometimes overshadow the "data" closer to my face. Plus plenty of folks don't enjoy it when you address something they haven't literally, directly, verbally said... Whoopsy daisy

#1 I think this one can help more once I address, to the best of my ability, the tendency to be gathering deeper info constantly. I don't think it would be possible to hear that level (as I experience it through my filters) unless I had permission in some form, but I get that conscious level permission is more what you mean here.

I also see that approaching it in terms of asking permission first could be a way to create a pause in the tendency to just go with it. But see I also think I could more easily pause that whole pattern if I had a way to easily turn it down and relate on the surface. I accept responsibility for more easily accessing less superficial levels but I don't like that I feel limited to that - which is why I made it the topic of this thread.

Now, I wasn't suggesting that you get permission to access the data or to hear that deeper level; I was suggesting that it generates freedom and safety when you ask for conscious permission to respond to that unconscious data by speaking to the conscious mind about it. It can easily create dissonance and leave the person feeling defensive, suspicious, and totally out of rapport with you.

(If you're going to deliberately speak directly back to their unconscious mind in the language of the unconscious mind, and bypass their conscious faculty, to get win/win results, you might not want or need their conscious permission to do so. In that case, it might occur to the person like you're having a normal "superficial" conversation, when what you are doing is your normal, deep communication, and getting the person and yourself into a deeply insightful state. I call those the "OMG!" conversations, when a person is consciously thinking about problem, and unconsciously generating breakthrough results - and then they *come to* and say, "Oh, my god! What just happened?" And they can't even remember what they're problem even was, or they laugh that it was once (a minute or two ago) even a problem. I love it when that happens!) And you'd want to be in excellent rapport with someone when you do this, to get the best results.)

I agree with you about freedom in conversations. In some settings I wonder if it's going to be approached differently in the first place, say a job interview with someone who has not met you before. It seems in my experience there's certain expectations and boundaries set up in a professional setting like that, especially if the profession has a tendency to look down on anything that might be called woowoo. Yes, we could say I just create that setup if I think it's there, but then if I just walk into it expecting a space of freedom to be welcomed and accepted, that could backfire.

I'm thinking that job interviews or other situations where you want to get a specific result in conversation, it's even more essential to generate a space of freedom and acceptance. Just because people are at work in a professional setting doesn't mean that they don't want to feel good and free in conversation! And it doesn't necessarily have to come across as woowoo in the least bit, either -- although it might help to watch your vocabulary for jargon. (it's funny, here in SoCal so much pd jargon has been adopted as regular-speak that you have to get pretty darned woo-woo for someone to think you're woo-woo anymore. but I recognize that's not true all over. And again, generating a sense of dancing in the conversation doesn't necessitate any out-of-the-ordinary kind of speech.)

Wishing you a speedy flushing out of the bee juice!

[pyrogen]

I can see where sometimes it's wisest to opt toward the superficial at first.

We women (because I can't speak for men) are socialized into the habit of reading secret meanings into everything, and the trouble is, probably a good number of us are not past our own attachments enough to know that what we are seeing is really the truth... it'll be filtered through our own insecurities, built up database of meanings, and wishes.

[MidasGirl]

It's an interesting point you bring up Pyrogen. But I get the feeling rei isn't talking about "reading" secret meaning into things, but simply intuitively picking up on stuff that's lurking underneath the superficiality. I think reading secret meaning into things is about being suspicious of people, while what rei is talking about (as I read it) is about being "present" to the energy that is being put out by the other person.

Actually, giving secret meaning to what people say is pretty superficial, IMO. It means you are not present to who they are being.

[rei]

@Kishka: In most cases I do choose to be around those who either appreciate me for my natural way of being or who are not choosing to feel uncomfortable about it. Actually, for some reason this happens less (in ways that become issuematic) among those who consciously accept/appreciate this style of being in the world. It's like I don't end up on guard trying to respect their preferences, and somehow this whole dynamic becomes more of an issue when I get the sense that it's unwanted. It's like it becomes an issue because I'm sitting there trying to resist my natural way of being, and sitting there trying to resist it makes it just come through anyway. When folks are cool with that way of expressing from the deep or even appreciative of having that around, it's all good because I'm not trying to control it in the first place.

What you said about job interviews, that's kinda my point. I know it rarely gets deep but until I come up with a way to turn the deep stuff way down temporarily so I can more easily focus on the surface level, I'm concerned this stuff might come up in an interview or in the initial meet/greet of a professional situation - that's why my point here is to learn ways to turn it down. I'm looking at ways I can more easily relate so anything I do that IS responding to the deeper level is limited to affirming nonverbal communication.

(Yes, I know I'm sitting here being forceful with myself. I know resisting this dynamic is not the best way to go about it. I know looking at it this way could just make me very self-conscious when I'm conversing with people. But I'd prefer to have the option of easily connecting the way most people do, especially in the world of business.)

@Angela: Thanks for the mental healing and for offering clarification on your perspective. I certainly understand where you're coming from, and I see how that is an awesome goal or space to be in. I understand what you were intending to express about permission, and I think the issue for me is I have not always realized, in the moment, that I was responding to the non-surface level until the moment passes. But cultivating more awareness of the process is part of my interest here, and pausing to get permission before I go there would be helpful in being less inclined to let my natural tuning take over.

I think I'd feel more easily capable of accessing that space of freedom if I had a way to turn the deeper levels way down, on a temporary basis. Thinking of finding a generic self-hypnosis exercise I can tweak for this purpose.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

It's an interesting point you bring up Pyrogen. But I get the feeling rei isn't talking about "reading" secret meaning into things, but simply intuitively picking up on stuff that's lurking underneath the superficiality. I think reading secret meaning into things is about being suspicious of people, while what rei is talking about (as I read it) is about being "present" to the energy that is being put out by the other person.

Actually, giving secret meaning to what people say is pretty superficial, IMO. It means you are not present to who they are being.

Right. pyrogen, I agree with you that such conditioning happens but what MG said here is more the experience I'm talking about. I suppose in one sense, we could argue there IS "secret meaning" but more in the sense that the information is something the person is choosing to keep secret from themselves.

This can become an issue for me, though, because I sometimes forget the information isn't necessarily in their conscious awareness and isn't necessarily something they want to consciously realize they are experiencing.

And even if it's the deeper level of that person that is pushing for something to be expressed consciously (often seems to be the case), I'm the one who has to deal with it when the conscious level doesn't wanna go there.

So naturally, there would be times where it doesn't go over well when I respond to the thing they are trying to hide from... and I don't always even realize I'm doing it until after. Part of the problem is there's not a very clear boundary between 'surface info' and 'deep info' for me, and I'm looking at ways I can make that line clearer and just be more mindful and in control the whole time. It's nice that I'm in touch with my own unconscious mind, comes in handy for sure, but it's not always nice when I am flowing with my unconscious mind as another person is trying to stay tuned to a different level.

And of course, I'm not infallible either, so sometimes I don't convey the information in a way that seems accurate. In some cases that seems to be largely because the person is hiding it from themselves for a reason, so goes to great lengths to continue not looking at it, and in other cases it seems to be largely about my own stuff affecting the process.

But anyway, I'm still interested in ways to be more superficial when interacting with others. Going to try and track down a self-hypnosis option but I'm open to other methods I might try for staying on the surface.

MG, thanks again for your posts here. It's a big help to see that you get what I'm talking about in terms of the experience on my end.

[Solipsist]

rei, as I read through your posts, here, I cannot help but get the impression that you're just thinking too much about all this.

Where's the rei we all know and love? We don't worry about your capacities of being superficial. Why are you? And then, you already know about the being vs. doing dichotomy, and that merely Being will ensure that what needs to be said will by said and always at the right time. Why are you so preoccupied with superficiality vs depth?

Or, maybe I just don't like the idea of someone I already view as perfect willingly subscribing to superficiality.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Solipsist

rei, as I read through your posts, here, I cannot help but get the impression that you're just thinking too much about all this.

Where's the rei we all know and love? We don't worry about your capacities of being superficial. Why are you? And then, you already know about the being vs. doing dichotomy, and that merely Being will ensure that what needs to be said will by said and always at the right time. Why are you so preoccupied with superficiality vs depth?

Or, maybe I just don't like the idea of someone I already view as perfect willingly subscribing to superficiality.

How is this not the rei you know and love? You mean because I'm analyzing and problem-solving here? It's still me, but I admit I'm beginning to wonder if I'm putting way too much value on feedback that's not ultimately helpful. (Whether that is or isn't the case, I think it would be nice to slide into a more superficial way of being when I'd like to.)

In some settings, being in tune to the levels outside of conscious awareness is helpful, even appreciated and valued. But it's not that way in every setting, and I'd appreciate the extra sense of flexibility that would come from easily sliding into another way of interacting in those settings where this way is not seen as a gift, but is rather seen as a nuisance or as something that folks get wonky about.

I'm starting to think when I feel/notice resistance to this way of being, one reason it tends to sort of leak through anyway is precisely because the unconscious of that person is wanting so much for them to stop hiding. Problem is in many social settings, it is more immediately effective to respect that person's preferences on the surface. Some people appreciate getting feedback like this, others are totally determined to keep that aspect of themselves locked down and won't appreciate having access to it through me. At least, that seems to be the case since I'm (usually) so naturally gentle when I deliver that information.

(Of course, I'll also acknowledge this stuff is not truth in an objective sense, but at the same time it seems out of all the people I've talked to where this level was involved - probably more than a hundred people - only two of those people have said there was no merit whatsoever to the info that came through when I found myself responding to the deeper levels. That's one reason I am not so quick to think my own filters get in the way all that much, though of course I know they can - and I know even if the info is valid it's not like the other person has to listen.

Plus, it's their choice to keep something hidden, and I'm just trying to get better about not letting the deeper level override the conscious choice. It's all just so much easier when I don't pick up on a sense that a person is choosing to craftily hide from themselves because then I'm not putting myself on guard in an attempt to match their preference.)

The thing is, I feel pulled in more than one direction here. On the one hand, I see how much it serves us as a collective to let ourselves be conscious of things. In some ways I have felt like part of my purpose here relates to that. On the other hand, it sucks when the information isn't appreciated. Because then it's like a mini-argument between that person's conscious (saying, "I choose to stay where I am,") and unconscious (saying, "But please open up to this part of you so it can be integrated.")

And it's weird to be in that place, for me, to be aware of how much the conscious layer wants to keep things as they are as I'm simultaneously aware of how much the unconscious layer is pushing for greater health and wholeness.

If I limit myself to only interacting with those who have natural respect for this stuff, or appreciation of it, that leaves out another group of people. I'd really just like to feel (more) like I have a choice here. At times I have felt the 'invisible' layers pushing so strongly it was like I didn't have much of a choice, or it felt that way.

I'm preoccupied with this because I think it becomes a barrier to social interactions that flow as well as they can. Maybe it IS about spending most of my time with people who don't have an issue with it. That certainly seems to be the best choice when it comes to my personal life, and I'm doing that... but what of the professional life? I'm able to work with this deepness in a way, but I'm also looking at secondary options for income in settings where any intuition you do have is supposed to be itty bitty compared to what I'm dealing with.

It seems kinda practical to explore this so I have the option of interacting the way someone expects to, in case they are not using a frame that is open to this sort of thing. I'd rather not expect such a person to be different, I'd prefer instead to add to my skills so I can meet them where they want to be. And in the meantime develop some way of letting the conscious level override the deeper levels with less tension.

I appreciate your kind words And thank you for sharing your opinion that I am great as I am

I know I am writing a lot about this stuff. I think it's ideas that have been there for quite a while, and it helps me feel clearer about things to write it out. I don't expect everyone to read all of it, though, and it's fine with me if folks don't read it all...

[Solipsist]

I still say you're thinking too much. Mainly, it seems as though you are putting too much stress on what people think, themselves, either of themselves or of you. Everything happens to everyone in its own time, its own place. I don't see why you can't just let it happen, whether its deep or superficial or humorous or sexual or whatever. All is One, and there is unity and wholeness and completeness in Oneness. You can't change that, rei, and I would think you'd know that.

But I understand the venting part, so vent away. I have ears for you.

[rei]

Okay, well, when it comes to my personal life, most of this is less of an issue because I do prefer to surround myself with people who value all sides of me.

But my professional life is there too, and it does not just involve being a professional psychic. Some of it involves "fitting in" to that aspect of things where there's conditioning and expectations. So in some situations, for me to get my own preferred outcome, it does happen to matter whether others like how I come across.

I'd like to just be my most authentic self in every setting but as I'm choosing to explore having an employer it seems that will involve only being part of myself. I don't like it, but it seems it will take time to grow my own business to a point where I can just focus on that.

If someone else is in charge of whether I get a position or not, then it sorta becomes a practical matter to learn how to get better at relating the way they expect, relating in a more 'mainstream' way. Which I cringe at, but the end goal is something I want. I'll get to use my natural gifts and talents but that means being approved by the gatekeeper.

And it could just be a large part of this is me channeling my discomfort at being in the middle of lots of change and transition. But much of it is me choosing to work through anything that might give the gatekeeper an excuse to pass on me for a position that I could shine in.

Where the rubber meets the road I'm fine, and I can be in the moment and trust my capabilities and trust that my natural connection to light will be felt on some level and work in my favor. In the meantime, I think it would be beneficial to learn how to relate more easily in the way most people do.

Knowing it's all one and all perfect... isn't going to get me health insurance But I do trust that the right opportunity is showing up in my reality

[Solipsist]

Originally Posted by rei

Okay, well, when it comes to my personal life, most of this is less of an issue because I do prefer to surround myself with people who value all sides of me.

This is good to hear. I think you're great as you are (though the horndog in me must admit that I haven't seen all sides of you, yet )

But my professional life is there too, and it does not just involve being a professional psychic. Some of it involves "fitting in" to that aspect of things where there's conditioning and expectations. So in some situations, for me to get my own preferred outcome, it does happen to matter whether others like how I come across.

This, I understand. I have to do the same where I work, and it's ... uncomfortable. But, lately, I don't even bother thinking about outcomes. However, I'm not doing what you're doing professionally, so I can see how outcomes in your case would be more important.

And it could just be a large part of this is me channeling my discomfort at being in the middle of lots of change and transition. But much of it is me choosing to work through anything that might give the gatekeeper an excuse to pass on me for a position that I could shine in.

You already shine brilliantly, you just don't realize it.

Where the rubber meets the road I'm fine, and I can be in the moment and trust my capabilities and trust that my natural connection to light will be felt on some level and work in my favor. In the meantime, I think it would be beneficial to learn how to relate more easily in the way most people do.

This is where it seems that you're thinking too much, and too concerned about outcomes and others' perception of you. Shine on, you crazy diamond, and your brilliance will ensure that you'll connect in whatever way is required. Maybe you just haven't experienced that, yet.

Knowing it's all one and all perfect... isn't going to get me health insurance But I do trust that the right opportunity is showing up in my reality

Again, with the outcomes. Knowing all is One and Perfect, and connecting with that will get you what you are destined for, whether it be health insurance or whatever.

One of my favorite quotes from the Bible has long been: "observe the lilies of the field. They neither toil nor spin, yet even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed as one of these."

You seem to be one who does alot of toiling, rei, and more than anyone else, for you, Peace.

[rei]

Aw, thank you again for your kind words, Solipsist LOL @the horndog comment

Actually, it's strange, or might be strange, but something shifted for me (post #4) and I now feel very out of touch with where I was at writing these posts.

I'm somehow all-too-aware of the it's-all-okay nature of things at the moment. It's pretty awesome, actually, and I'm enjoying this new space

[Angela]

Originally Posted by rei

... it sucks when the information isn't appreciated. Because then it's like a mini-argument between that person's conscious (saying, "I choose to stay where I am,") and unconscious (saying, "But please open up to this part of you so it can be integrated.")

Why do you choose to make it mean that it sucks when someone is having a mini-argument between their conscious and their unconscious?

At the risk of sounding like themaster , that sounds like a judgement to me, the kind that could get in the way of your having influence and feeling good about what you do.

Another way to look at this inner conflict is that the person is exactly where they should be -- celebrate the magnificence and drama of their humanity, and refrain from taking sides in the mini-argument (like, the side that wants to be integrated *should* prevail over the side that wants to stay where they are). You could make yourself available to help a person resolve the inner conflict, without telling them or yourself (consciously OR unconsciously) what the outcome of that resolution should be.

[rei]

Thanks for the reframe, Angela

It's true that it's a choice to make it mean anything. I suppose in the moment of the experience, it can be unpleasant to witness those dynamics.

As I have also said here, I do acknowledge that everyone is where they want/choose/need to be. What you refer to as not taking sides in the mini-argument is what I'm getting at with staying more superficial. At times it seems the deeper level of a person is rather desperate to be heard, but I can certainly move into explaining to that level or communicating to it that it's not my place to deliver the message, so it will need to continue using other ways to reach the conscious level of a person.

Basically it can become about stepping back from the dissonance instead of getting wrapped up in it just because of my, uh, whatever it is. Although it's not my intention to join in the dissonance it seems in some of these situations that's what happens. Not really necessary though.

Anyway, I feel like I'm not in the same place I was in before here. Feels like things are happening which could also be addressing some of this so I'm choosing to trust my own deeper levels here. Plus I'm enjoying the space I'm in right now