What do you do to "Truly" get over a breakup?

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by 180

I was kidding about the lying thing.

But I think for men it's harder to process grief by "living it through". I've done that and it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper. It does NOT go away. It festers and get's worse.

Women have more emotional mechanisms than men to get over breakup. I read a theory once that stated this was because when men went to war, women could quickly grieve the loss of their husband and move onto another man.

Some men aren't so emotionally equipped. When we experience emotions it's more confusing, erratic, and more violent.

In my own personal experience, it's always been easier for the woman to get over a man. When a change in her "needs" happens, so does the man. It's quite easy for her to detach emotionally if that man no longer has the value that she needs.

Whereas for men, a woman ALWAYS has the value that he needs, beauty and fertility. But obviously when she gets old that goes out the door. But for the most part guys have a sense of loss when they breakup with a girlfriend more because they have an attachment bond and still crave sex to a certain degree. Of course this isn't always the case, but biologically speaking this is how men developed.

Part of our socialization is to rely more upon other women for that support, than upon the man in our lives. Because... after all... men go off to war, and who is there to help us? Our sisters and mothers...

[elucidate]

I understand that men process things differently to us. I also have a male friend who grieved, as a female would, for over 2 years, and actually became a bit of a stalker to his ex, as he just couldn't stop crying and get past it, which of course drove her away even more.

He spent too much time around females as a child and had no male friends since he got bullied so much for being a nerd. I think he thinks he is a woman because of it, and certainly is emotionally very similar to women in his processing of emotions. I can't say he is the only person in the world like this, I'm sure there are other males...but generally, yes, males do not grieve as deeply as we do.

Originally Posted by 180

I was kidding about the lying thing.

But I think for men it's harder to process grief by "living it through". I've done that and it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper. It does NOT go away. It festers and get's worse.

Women have more emotional mechanisms than men to get over breakup. I read a theory once that stated this was because when men went to war, women could quickly grieve the loss of their husband and move onto another man.

Some men aren't so emotionally equipped. When we experience emotions it's more confusing, erratic, and more violent.

In my own personal experience, it's always been easier for the woman to get over a man. When a change in her "needs" happens, so does the man. It's quite easy for her to detach emotionally if that man no longer has the value that she needs.

Whereas for men, a woman ALWAYS has the value that he needs, beauty and fertility. But obviously when she gets old that goes out the door. But for the most part guys have a sense of loss when they breakup with a girlfriend more because they have an attachment bond and still crave sex to a certain degree. Of course this isn't always the case, but biologically speaking this is how men developed.

[180]

Originally Posted by elucidate

I understand that men process things differently to us. I also have a male friend who grieved, as a female would, for over 2 years, and actually became a bit of a stalker to his ex, as he just couldn't stop crying and get past it, which of course drove her away even more.

He spent too much time around females as a child and had no male friends since he got bullied so much for being a nerd. I think he thinks he is a woman because of it, and certainly is emotionally very similar to women in his processing of emotions. I can't say he is the only person in the world like this, I'm sure there are other males...but generally, yes, males do not grieve as deeply as we do.

Yeah, I also had a friend who stalked his ex for quite a while. I kept telling him that it's over and he should seriously seriously just stop contact. (He was the one who broke up too, his reason? He wanted to date a sexy girl instead of a cute girl... what a tarded reason.)

Anyways, yeah he couldn't get over her. He kept calling and texting and sometimes even went to her school in hopes of seeing her.

Usually it's men who become the stalkers though. They don't handle breakups in quite the same manner as women. I haven't heard of too many women stalking men....

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by 180

Yeah, I also had a friend who stalked his ex for quite a while. I kept telling him that it's over and he should seriously seriously just stop contact. (He was the one who broke up too, his reason? He wanted to date a sexy girl instead of a cute girl... what a tarded reason.)

Anyways, yeah he couldn't get over her. He kept calling and texting and sometimes even went to her school in hopes of seeing her.

Usually it's men who become the stalkers though. They don't handle breakups in quite the same manner as women. I haven't heard of too many women stalking men....

That's interesting, because to hear guys talk, you'd think a lot of women were overemotional wrecks who got too attached too soon then wouldn't detach.

[180]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

That's interesting, because to hear guys talk, you'd think a lot of women were overemotional wrecks who got too attached too soon then wouldn't detach.

I think it's mostly men who do the overemotional wreckage type stuff. But that's only in my own experience. Must be a nerd thing.

The women I've seen generally handle it quite well. You know, a shower, a movie, bam, finished...

Man I hang around way too many shallow women.

[elucidate]

That's funny. My friend was the one who broke up with her also. He would go around to her house and sleep on her front porch. Her housemates would go to work in the morning and this strange guy would be asleep on their front porch

I tried to tell him that it wasn't the done thing...he's from germany and he just thought Australian laws were "beurocratic nonsense". I saw a news clip a few weeks later that germany had just passed anti-stalking laws (apparently they had none before then...and this guy said that it was "normal" for exes to just sleep on their exes front porch, and it happened all the time. Not sure if I believe him there?)

He wanted to have polyamorous relations (his reason) then he changed his mind, and she didn't want him back I think it's close to 3 years now, and he is STILL stalking her, last I heard.

Originally Posted by 180

Yeah, I also had a friend who stalked his ex for quite a while. I kept telling him that it's over and he should seriously seriously just stop contact. (He was the one who broke up too, his reason? He wanted to date a sexy girl instead of a cute girl... what a tarded reason.)

Anyways, yeah he couldn't get over her. He kept calling and texting and sometimes even went to her school in hopes of seeing her.

Usually it's men who become the stalkers though. They don't handle breakups in quite the same manner as women. I haven't heard of too many women stalking men....

[James81]

Originally Posted by 180

Well the problem with love and breakup I found is that is usually thinking "I'll never find anyone like that girl again." hurts the most.
It's not about having a girl... period. It's about THAT particular girl.

The emotional pain that humans feel during a breakup is experienced because of loss. When we cry, we lose something. It's how it works.

If one wants to get over pain. Truly over, there should be no "loss". The more one thinks that someone was unique, rare, or valuable the loss becomes stronger. For example, I don't cry if a stranger dies but I do if a friend dies. Why? Because that friend is valuable to me.

Also, just to be fair in my previous post, I should have said that men are replaceable too. Just to be fair. There really isn't a guy out there that isn't replaceable by any other guy. Sure we have different personalties but are they SO unique you could never find another guy like that? No. That's why we have categories for people.

Nerds, Jocks, Goths, Emos. etc etc...


I know I think I'm some kind of special snowflake, because i'm super intellectual read up, "cynical" realist, and somewhat of a philosophy nut. But the more I read... the more I realize there are guys EXACTLY like me in every way.

We don't WANT to think we are the same as someone else because that would mean we aren't valuable. But for the most part, humanity is very similar. We are just different a mixing pot of slightly different qualities.

But you and me hell, we're the same brother/sister

I got what you were trying to say. At the root, you're saying that if you focus on the commonalities between people instead of the differences, you're able to develop more intimate connections with more than one person.

Which is very true (and useful).

My point was that you aren't communicating that in an effective way, which is something that I notice about your posts actually. You seem pretty in tune with the "why" things work and "why" people are the way they are from an evolutionary standpoint.

But you communicate it from what appears to me to be a wounded place in you. And as a result, you generate some pretty "inciteful" things from people.

I think that with your knowledge, if you were to disconnect from this "man vs. woman" view of reality that you'd be a pretty powerful communicator. But as it is, take a look at some of the responses and what you're generating and ask yourself if you're effectively communicating your point or if it's laced with past hurts you've faced in relationships.

Originally Posted by 180

Women have more emotional mechanisms than men to get over breakup. I read a theory once that stated this was because when men went to war, women could quickly grieve the loss of their husband and move onto another man.

I don't think that this is true.

I think that what you are seeing here isn't an inherent trait in men, it's a societal expectation in men. There's a huge social stigma surrounding men showing emotion (aside from more aggressive emotions such as anger), and thus the majority of men are bottlenecked through a handful of "acceptable" emotions and are socially encouraged to share only those emotion. And it's something that is reinforced mainly by other men.

We have as many tools as women emotionally, we just don't use them.

[Vagabond Bobby]

I agree with some parts this conversation has taken a turn to.

Men (in general, not all men), we are emotionally weaker than females for many reasons. It may not have always been this way, though it happens to be the current state of things.

All the girls I know have wars constantly with other women and even friends. These wars most guys just don't see do exist, and it's crazy. The wars can be in the stare down, the way girls show up to clubs all dressed up, friends insulting friends because of insecurities.

Guy's don't really need to deal with this much tension, so we are not as emotionally tough as women. It's not to say we're weak, though a lot of males are just weak in emotions.

I've been emotionally weak most of my life because I've been surrounded by guys who were weak.

I wouldn't say I'm devaluing the girl I was with, I would say, I accepting the emotional survival instinct loss and moving on.

I would say what holds me a lot is the sexual aspects mentioned, she was great, open, and in-tuned with her body, something I haven't experienced before her. Though I know she won't be the last; most women I've met just are not in-tuned into that part of themselves.

We were reaching tantric levels without even knowing what tantra was, now I do after the break-up and that probably made me miss her a lot. I finished the book a week after the break-up, silly me for doing that.

There is a lot of helpful advice here, what I'm trying to avoid is becoming the crazy guy you guys mention, and I'm doing well in some aspects and failing in other aspects. I've been reading stuff about break-ups and talking to you guys here, and it all really helps to get perspective.

It's not the end of the world, most of you guys told me, and it helps.

Did someone give me permission to let go and move on yet? It's crazy, when a person gets permission, amazing things happen.

I'm focusing on not rebounding to another girl, I want to date and value her in her own way. I plan to move to another country for a few months and we'll see what happens there, Japan or Costa Rica.

Awesome stuff guys, I think I wanted to approach the break-up from a girl's point of view though I didn't have the insight or emotional strength to do it before. The girl who I was with moved on like it was nothing. <--- I'm aiming for this so I don't do stupid things.

[Angela]

I don't know if it's a matter of emotional strength or weakness.

I think it tends to be more that women will do their best to make a relationship work while they're still in the relationship -- and often they just try and try, and the guy thinks that's just what women do -- always yakkin' away about the relationship, more or less oblivious to the increasing direness of her effort. Eventually she becomes present to the reality that her efforts either aren't working, or that it's not her job to recruit someone into the kind of relationship she wants; rather, she realizes she wants a volunteer. So she grieves the end of the relationship while she's still in it -- sometimes even hoping against hope that a miracle could happen and he would do or say the magic word or action that would re-rail the relationship, even as she grieves its imminent end.

And the guy doesn't notice this is going on -- he joins his pals to watch the Laker game and they wonder why women are always wanting to talk about the relationship, for god's sake. Why can't they just relax and enjoy things as they are, like us? Jeesh.

So then one day she's done grieving, and she ends it or she maneuvers him into making the call, depending on how courageous she is. And voila, she's done! She's already done her grieving; she's ready to meet new guys and probably has already met some. In fact, meeting a new guy who seems more likely to be her volunteer has bolstered her confidence to end it with you, or to get you to end it, thinking it was your idea. The next day she's having breakfast with Fabio, and you're a wet mess on the floor, wondering what the hell happened, I did EVERYTHING for that woman, I loved her like no other, and who is this Fabio guy? I'll kick his ass!

Then the guy will often rush to go back in and win her back, or he'll go into a funk trying to make sense of the whole insensible mess.

She does the bulk of her mending before the end; he does almost all of his afterwards. It's not strength; it's timing.

[MidasGirl]

LMAO Angela. How did you know about my marriage? You just described it completely.

What's even more confusing is when the guy looks at you like, "what, you're ending it?" "Ummmm.....this ended 2 years ago foo"

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by James81

I think that with your knowledge, if you were to disconnect from this "man vs. woman" view of reality that you'd be a pretty powerful communicator. But as it is, take a look at some of the responses and what you're generating and ask yourself if you're effectively communicating your point or if it's laced with past hurts you've faced in relationships.

James is channeling Angela.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by Angela

I don't know if it's a matter of emotional strength or weakness.

I think it tends to be more that women will do their best to make a relationship work while they're still in the relationship -- and often they just try and try, and the guy thinks that's just what women do -- always yakkin' away about the relationship, more or less oblivious to the increasing direness of her effort. Eventually she becomes present to the reality that her efforts either aren't working, or that it's not her job to recruit someone into the kind of relationship she wants; rather, she realizes she wants a volunteer. So she grieves the end of the relationship while she's still in it -- sometimes even hoping against hope that a miracle could happen and he would do or say the magic word or action that would re-rail the relationship, even as she grieves its imminent end.

And the guy doesn't notice this is going on -- he joins his pals to watch the Laker game and they wonder why women are always wanting to talk about the relationship, for god's sake. Why can't they just relax and enjoy things as they are, like us? Jeesh.

So then one day she's done grieving, and she ends it or she maneuvers him into making the call, depending on how courageous she is. And voila, she's done! She's already done her grieving; she's ready to meet new guys and probably has already met some. In fact, meeting a new guy who seems more likely to be her volunteer has bolstered her confidence to end it with you, or to get you to end it, thinking it was your idea. The next day she's having breakfast with Fabio, and you're a wet mess on the floor, wondering what the hell happened, I did EVERYTHING for that woman, I loved her like no other, and who is this Fabio guy? I'll kick his ass!

Then the guy will often rush to go back in and win her back, or he'll go into a funk trying to make sense of the whole insensible mess.

She does the bulk of her mending before the end; he does almost all of his afterwards. It's not strength; it's timing.

This was what happened with my marriage.

I did my grieving *while married to him* - I went through a process of realizing that this relationship wasn't going to work *while I was in it* and fell out of love while I was still with him. I can look back and see a number of "telling moments", watershed points, that changed things. I also met people who inspired a hope for a better future, maybe because they seemed more compatible or had a relationship that was more what I wanted.

My ex husband seemed oblivious to our issues, even when we were in couples' counselling. By the time it finally sunk in that "something is wrong", it was too late.

I was back out on the dating market pretty quickly afterward, too, and into another serious relationship a year and a half later. The marriage sensitized me to what was "missing" from my love life and I was pretty quick to go out looking for that "missing thing".

He was a sensitive, fussy, femmy type of guy, too and one of our issues was who got to be "the girl" in the relationship. It goes to show you. Sometimes I think some stuff might be hardwired. He was still oblivious to the fact that we were having issues.

[Dimond]

I found that when I faced the reality that the relationship wasn't completely authentic nor what I truly wanted and needed, along with the person not being right for me, it's much easier to let go of them.

If you're not be able to do that right away: Often it can be helpful to first go through a stage where you focus on the negative aspects because I/we tend to remember the good more which prolongs the misery. So first, focus on everything you didn't like about the person and the relationship, even get angry if needed. Then become at peace with the situation and realize it wasn't right for you. You can also then focus on what you learned and got out of it and perhaps even be friends if there is something valuable still there. Usually takes a while for that to be a healthy decision because you can easily get sucked back into what's good about them.

I normally don't believe in focusing on anything negative but sometimes we need to do that in order to get to a better place. I use to spend way too much time grieving over relationships.

[elucidate]

Vagabond, if you need it, you can have my full permission to let go of this woman right now and move on with your life

If that doesn't work, just allow your own natural process and time to work their magic, and do your best to not obsess over her or keep contact in any way...it will only make you feel worse in the end.

Don't become like my german ex-friend (who I've now distanced myself from, along with all his other friends) and be stalking her 3 years later be sane, take care of yourself, and reclaim your life, hang out with your friends more...you're a free agent at the moment.

[Vagabond Bobby]

Vagabond, if you need it, you can have my full permission to let go of this woman right now and move on with your life

This helps a lot (a lot more than most others will think). Thanks

I think it tends to be more that women will do their best to make a relationship work while they're still in the relationship

Sounds absolutely right most of the time. The difference here for me was that I worked on the problems a lot and went past them and she wanted to not approach them most of the time.

It was probably my fault for wanting to work and solve our problems, while maybe all she wanted was to just say her frustrations and she'd be all good.

She decided at a certain point in our relationship that it wouldn't work out from something stupid I did, so she amplified any problems which did come up and at times stir it up (she told me this directly).

In this situation, I wanted to talk and solve problems too much and bothered her to do this.

I've been working to save the relationship for months.

My biggest insight which she mention as well, neither are ready for each other right now, though the future is different.

She came out of a long abusive marriage, she went through what you said Angela, she spent years trying to make the marriage work, and disconnected finally and up and left.

I was the Fabio.

Now I don't know if she has a Fabio, though there are dozens of guys after her (this stressed her out while going out with me too). It's probably best I don't know and if I do know, just be happy for her.

I haven't contacted her for only 5 days now. It seems a lot longer. I do plan to be friends with her once I can get over this "loss" in my mind.

If you're not be able to do that right away: Often it can be helpful to first go through a stage where you focus on the negative aspects because I/we tend to remember the good more which prolongs the misery.

You are absolutely right in this situation.

My previous break-up 9 years ago, I was in grief for 3-4 years. Yea that's a long time. I focused too much on the good things, and not on the bad.

This time around, I understand how complicated things were and what the bad stuff was.

--

There's a chance since I'm around women a lot, I approach problem solving from the feminine point of view. I'm still learning to take up my true masculinity (not in the same way society says it should be). I got the idea of what real masculinity is out of a Tantra book. I just need not turn into a wuss during a relationship, which I totally did.

Thanks for the help everyone. Day 5 right now, and it just seems so long.

Any advice for being friends with your previous lover?

I plan to later when I'm ready, though I'm not ready.

[Angela]

You might want to check out Paul McKenna's "How to Mend Your Broken Heart." It's jam-packed with a whole bunch of techniques for taking the sting out, and hastening the recovery process -- without having to think ill of her, which frankly, I think would be beneath you. You don't have to degrade her in order to make yourself feel better.

By the way, you are TOTALLY a Fabio, in the best sense of the word. A dreamboat.

[elucidate]

Glad it helped.

As for advice on staying friends, I'm not the one to help you there. I think it's a nice ideal...and I'm sure it works for some people. For me, it is a chapter of my life that is no longer there...it's over, so I usually don't want to stay friends with them. Maybe years down the track, I don't mind getting in touch now and then, but for my own mental and emotional health I find it's better for me to not stay friends with them afterwords.

Good luck with your goal though...really

Originally Posted by Vagabond Bobby

This helps a lot (a lot more than most others will think). Thanks




Sounds absolutely right most of the time. The difference here for me was that I worked on the problems a lot and went past them and she wanted to not approach them most of the time.

It was probably my fault for wanting to work and solve our problems, while maybe all she wanted was to just say her frustrations and she'd be all good.

She decided at a certain point in our relationship that it wouldn't work out from something stupid I did, so she amplified any problems which did come up and at times stir it up (she told me this directly).

In this situation, I wanted to talk and solve problems too much and bothered her to do this.

I've been working to save the relationship for months.

My biggest insight which she mention as well, neither are ready for each other right now, though the future is different.

She came out of a long abusive marriage, she went through what you said Angela, she spent years trying to make the marriage work, and disconnected finally and up and left.

I was the Fabio.

Now I don't know if she has a Fabio, though there are dozens of guys after her (this stressed her out while going out with me too). It's probably best I don't know and if I do know, just be happy for her.

I haven't contacted her for only 5 days now. It seems a lot longer. I do plan to be friends with her once I can get over this "loss" in my mind.



You are absolutely right in this situation.

My previous break-up 9 years ago, I was in grief for 3-4 years. Yea that's a long time. I focused too much on the good things, and not on the bad.

This time around, I understand how complicated things were and what the bad stuff was.

--

There's a chance since I'm around women a lot, I approach problem solving from the feminine point of view. I'm still learning to take up my true masculinity (not in the same way society says it should be). I got the idea of what real masculinity is out of a Tantra book. I just need not turn into a wuss during a relationship, which I totally did.

Thanks for the help everyone. Day 5 right now, and it just seems so long.

Any advice for being friends with your previous lover?

I plan to later when I'm ready, though I'm not ready.

[Vagabond Bobby]

Ah, I made a failure today.

I heard from my brother she has been sick for the past two days.

I stop by with an organic food bar, vitamin C tablets, an orange, and some almonds.

Luckily she wasn't home today. Though she was out hanging with the new fabios.

It's still an emotional roller coaster, I know I probably shouldn't have stopped by, though I had a good talk with her sister, shes my friend.

I feel like I really need to leave this place, I'm planning to go to either Costa Rica or Japan at the end of July though I think I just need to get out of here.

Glad it helped.

As for advice on staying friends, I'm not the one to help you there. I think it's a nice ideal...and I'm sure it works for some people. For me, it is a chapter of my life that is no longer there...it's over, so I usually don't want to stay friends with them. Maybe years down the track, I don't mind getting in touch now and then, but for my own mental and emotional health I find it's better for me to not stay friends with them afterwords.

Good luck with your goal though...really

You are probably right elucidate, it may take me a while to be ready to be her friend. The thing I sulk on the most is the stupid decisions I made in the relationship, I know if someone or if she told me when I made them, they wouldn't have repeated.

Simple things as some money here and there. I'm having so much trouble knowing that I could do such simple stupid things, though I think that is my weak point.

I'll check out the book Angela, I hope there is a online version! I got too many books I gotta sell, a dozen or so.

Just giving an update on my stupidity. I'm in no way putting myself down here, I just do stupid things like think about the stupid choices I could have avoided.

Ugg, frustration is me, I'm going to focus on some work.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Vagabond Bobby

I haven't contacted her for only 5 days now. It seems a lot longer. I do plan to be friends with her once I can get over this "loss" in my mind.

What have you lost? What did you have before, that you don't have now?

Originally Posted by Vagabond Bobby

Any advice for being friends with your previous lover?

Yes - do it!

Originally Posted by Vagabond Bobby

Ah, I made a failure today.

I heard from my brother she has been sick for the past two days.

I stop by with an organic food bar, vitamin C tablets, an orange, and some almonds.

That doesn't sound like a failure to me. It sounds like a nice thing you did for a person you like. Quit thinking unpleasant things, dude, and start thinking pleasant things.

Originally Posted by Vagabond Bobby

The thing I sulk on the most is the stupid decisions I made in the relationship,
..
I'm having so much trouble knowing that I could do such simple stupid things, though I think that is my weak point.
..
Just giving an update on my stupidity. I'm in no way putting myself down here, I just do stupid things like think about the stupid choices I could have avoided.

Lmao. Do you call this raising yourself up?

[Vagabond Bobby]

What have you lost? What did you have before, that you don't have now?

Great sexual pleasure, though I'm not spending as much money now. No I didn't pay her to do it, though that's how a lot of people I know do their relationships.

I'm sure I'll be replacing the pleasure soon!

Yes - do it!

Will do! Gotta make sure I'm in a good place in my mind so I'm not silly.

That doesn't sound like a failure to me. It sounds like a nice thing you did for a person you like. Quit thinking unpleasant things, dude, and start thinking pleasant things.

You are right, I just failed my non contact pact with myself to grieve and move on.

Lmao. Do you call this raising yourself up?

I call it pointing out to myself that I did stupid things. I'm glad I can admit to myself I did stupid things, helps me not repeat them!

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate it and it helps!