What is more important growing up, in your view?

[rei]

Lately I've been reflecting on how I was raised, and how many others I know were raised. No shortage on the material things but sometimes that meant our caregivers weren't around enough to let us feel filled up emotionally.

(Pseudo-disclaimer: I accept with gratitude the way my experience was shaped, as I still got much from it...)

I was thinking about this in hypothetical terms... I think if I had to choose between material needs met without surplus to make room for a surplus of emotional needs being met - or material needs met with surplus and a deficit of emotional needs being met, I would choose the former. Obviously the ideal would be an all-around surplus, but if I had to choose emotional or material I'd prefer emotional. I'm all grown up now (hehe, more or less ) so this is just theory.

Which type of setup would you have created for yourself? Or which type of setup did you experience, if it suits your preference?

EDIT: You can choose more than one option in the poll.

[st33med]

Lots of positive friends and family giving me positive support and love. People who are understanding.

It's something I have wished for a lot recently. Doesn't matter now, since I am close to moving out and finding a new life for me.

[ssandra]

I had both.

Up and until I was around 12 we didn't have a lot of money, but I remember my parents always being there for me, accepting me as I am and loving me. Of course, even then they had things that I'd disagree with, but there was never a lack of love or acceptance.

When I reached puberty, acceptance and love (or perceived, I'm actually sure that my parents didn't love me any less) went down, while the income and comfort levels went up. We had more money, I could buy almost anything I wanted, but never truly felt accepted by my parents.

I truly, fully and completely wish my entire childhood had been as the first 10 / 12 years.

Money and stuff don't mean anything. They are just "things". They can never take the place of love and acceptance.

[ssandra]

Now that I think about it... no wonder I've been having conflicting thoughts about making money and getting richer...

[rei]

Originally Posted by st33med

Lots of positive friends and family giving me positive support and love. People who are understanding.

It's something I have wished for a lot recently. Doesn't matter now, since I am close to moving out and finding a new life for me.

So you would prefer those things even if it meant your "stuff" was not as nice?

See, I say I feel that way too, but as a child I don't know if I would have seen it like that... I might have felt like I was "lacking" when I saw what others had in the way of material things. But - as this is other than my actual experience, I can't know that either.

Congrats on being close to moving out!

[180]

I choose emotional needs.

A child with unmet emotional needs grows up to be postal workers who shoots every in the office.

A child who can't afford nike shoes but has enough emotional support won't be bothered that every other kid has the latest jordans.

[rei]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I had both.

Up and until I was around 12 we didn't have a lot of money, but I remember my parents always being there for me, accepting me as I am and loving me. Of course, even then they had things that I'd disagree with, but there was never a lack of love or acceptance.

When I reached puberty, acceptance and love (or perceived, I'm actually sure that my parents didn't love me any less) went down, while the income and comfort levels went up. We had more money, I could buy almost anything I wanted, but never truly felt accepted by my parents.

I truly, fully and completely wish my entire childhood had been as the first 10 / 12 years.

Money and stuff don't mean anything. They are just "things". They can never take the place of love and acceptance.

Sounds to me like you would have preferred to keep the emotional surplus Cool how you were able to experience both, though. Seems that can mean a broader perspective...

Originally Posted by ssandra

Now that I think about it... no wonder I've been having conflicting thoughts about making money and getting richer...

Hehe

[rei]

Originally Posted by 180

A child who can't afford nike shoes but has enough emotional support won't be bothered that every other kid has the latest jordans.

You think so? Interesting, tell me more

[brendannz]

material needs are more measurable than emotional needs IMO

[rei]

Originally Posted by brendannz

material needs are more measurable than emotional needs IMO

I would probably agree, though there are plenty of tools we can use to quantify/articulate/empiricize emotional needs. How does that fit with the choice we're discussing?

[MidasGirl]

Both.

I was watching a Will Smith interview the other day, and he had his teenage son with him. Will talked about how he's been reading some personal development books with his son. But he also talked about how, when filming karate kid, he flew from Hong Kong every weekend to be in the States for his son's football games.

Dude, that's what money and highly conscious parents can do. If the choice were mine, I can't imagine a reason I wouldn't choose both.

[Criseyde]

Well... by material needs are we talking food, clothes, and shelter? Because I can see this going both ways. It's no good having your emotional needs met if you starve to death, right? ... or is it?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by rei

See, I say I feel that way too, but as a child I don't know if I would have seen it like that... I might have felt like I was "lacking" when I saw what others had in the way of material things. But - as this is other than my actual experience, I can't know that either.

As a child I never minded that my mom made my clothes instead of buying them. When everybody else had the latest whatever, and I didn't, I couldn't care less.

My brother is very materialistic and always wants to "belong" with the group, but even he didn't mind as a child that we didn't have much.

Its only as soon as we started to get more money and more things, that things became more important in the family.

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Both.

I was watching a Will Smith interview the other day, and he had his teenage son with him. Will talked about how he's been reading some personal development books with his son. But he also talked about how, when filming karate kid, he flew from Hong Kong every weekend to be in the States for his son's football games.

Dude, that's what money and highly conscious parents can do. If the choice were mine, I can't imagine a reason I wouldn't choose both.

Well, yeah like I said, both is ideal. And of course it's awesome that there are parents who have the various resources needed to provide both

What if it had to be one or the other?

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Well... by material needs are we talking food, clothes, and shelter? Because I can see this going both ways. It's no good having your emotional needs met if you starve to death, right? ... or is it?

That's why I brought up surplus. We're assuming in this discussion that you have food, clothing and shelter - supplies for school, and things like that. But there might only be one tv in the house, or one computer. Maybe one family car.

Yeah all the love in the world won't help if you're starving unless your belief system allows for that

Originally Posted by ssandra

As a child I never minded that my mom made my clothes instead of buying them. When everybody else had the latest whatever, and I didn't, I couldn't care less.

My brother is very materialistic and always wants to "belong" with the group, but even he didn't mind as a child that we didn't have much.

Its only as soon as we started to get more money and more things, that things became more important in the family.

Cool, I can see how it could work that way.

Man, when did Western culture become sort of about buying your child's affection? (<---I sound cynical there.) Just seems like in many cases it becomes an either/or thing. Will Smith has more than enough resources to handle it... I'm talking like the stereotypical middle class existence. Just seems like somewhere in there parents started deciding doing more for their children in the way of material things was better even if the emotional level got neglected. (I can put myself in their shoes, though. If they were in the first generation to have that option, it's not likely they would have seen how it could work out for the kids.)

[Weena]

Both of course, and the Lexus, thanks you can send it to my postal address.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by rei

That's why I brought up surplus. We're assuming in this discussion that you have food, clothing and shelter - supplies for school, and things like that. But there might only be one tv in the house, or one computer. Maybe one family car.

Yeah all the love in the world won't help if you're starving unless your belief system allows for that

Okay, I'd choose emotional needs, hands down.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by rei

What if it had to be one or the other?

Hmm....yeah the choice would be an easy one. Emotional needs met.

The reason also is because parents who who are conscious enough to meet their child's emotional needs even in the face of financial hardship, probably also do a really good job of shielding that child from experiencing lack. It's when would be loving parents can't handle the pressure of financial problems that lack is passed on to children.

[aelle]

What do you mean by material needs? Designer clothes, holidays in the tropics?

My family never had a lot of money, however my parents did a lot of sacrifices to supply us kids in abundance with certain kinds of material needs: the intellectual, cultural and creative kind. We always got all the books we wanted, we all got to study music, to study languages, to travel abroad, to paint and craft, to try new sports (I was never the sporty kind but still, had I wanted to I had a chance to ski and sail, and I did martial arts for all of my teen years). In exchange, we never went on holiday, we only got new clothes when the old ones were falling apart and ate rice and beans more often than most. And we didn't own a TV, or a house, and we went years without a car even.

I have to say, I believe my childhood would have been incomplete had I not had a chance to explore like I did. When it comes to my parenting choices, I would say that if I wasn't ready to feed my kids in abundance - physically, emotionnally, intellectually and culturally - and shell out for it when necessary, I would not consider myself ready to have children.

So I vote both, even though it has nothing to do with luxury items.

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Hmm....yeah the choice would be an easy one. Emotional needs met.

The reason also is because parents who who are conscious enough to meet their child's emotional needs even in the face of financial hardship, probably also do a really good job of shielding that child from experiencing lack. It's when would be loving parents can't handle the pressure of financial problems that lack is passed on to children.

Ah, good point!

So parents who meet the child's emotional needs do not tend to have the child come home upset because kids at school made fun of their clothes/bag/whatever? Or that happens but the parent handles it well enough that the child continues to feel blessed? (I am assuming you're conscious enough to speak from experience )

[rei]

Originally Posted by aelle

What do you mean by material needs? Designer clothes, holidays in the tropics?

No, those are probably examples of 'upper middle-class' options. 'Middle class' options (based on my own experience in my home culture) are often not quite that 'grand.' They would instead include, well, participating in cultural activities or camps in other parts of the world, the sort of thing you mentioned. But then it can also include nice clothes with recognizable brands, if not designer.

Originally Posted by aelle

My family never had a lot of money, however my parents did a lot of sacrifices to supply us kids in abundance with certain kinds of material needs: the intellectual, cultural and creative kind. We always got all the books we wanted, we all got to study music, to study languages, to travel abroad, to paint and craft, to try new sports (I was never the sporty kind but still, had I wanted to I had a chance to ski and sail, and I did martial arts for all of my teen years). In exchange, we never went on holiday, we only got new clothes when the old ones were falling apart and ate rice and beans more often than most. And we didn't own a TV, or a house, and we went years without a car even.

I have to say, I believe my childhood would have been incomplete had I not had a chance to explore like I did. When it comes to my parenting choices, I would say that if I wasn't ready to feed my kids in abundance - physically, emotionnally, intellectually and culturally - and shell out for it when necessary, I would not consider myself ready to have children.

So I vote both, even though it has nothing to do with luxury items.

Thanks for the response. You did not mention the emotional needs in your post. Would you have preferred to get those cultural experiences even if you ended up feeling like your emotional needs were neglected in some sense?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by rei

Man, when did Western culture become sort of about buying your child's affection? (<---I sound cynical there.) Just seems like in many cases it becomes an either/or thing. Will Smith has more than enough resources to handle it... I'm talking like the stereotypical middle class existence. Just seems like somewhere in there parents started deciding doing more for their children in the way of material things was better even if the emotional level got neglected. (I can put myself in their shoes, though. If they were in the first generation to have that option, it's not likely they would have seen how it could work out for the kids.)

Well, I think it's the guilt of not being their emotionally. They have to assuage it somehow right?

[Criseyde]

This poll is quite odd; 6 and 6 split over two categories and the percentages are 66.7% for both..?

[aelle]

It's funny that we see a dichotomy between an abundance of love and an abundance of physical goods, while completely overlooking many things that I believe are equally important to education. An abundance of intellectual ressources, of opportunities to build critical thought, of opportunities to build choice and decision making, to build willpower may even be more important than love.

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Well, I think it's the guilt of not being their emotionally. They have to assuage it somehow right?

I'd say I see that going on as well. And like I said, I can understand wanting your kids to have it "nicer" than perhaps you did. But so far the majority here is saying they would have preferred living more modestly if it meant they felt like their emotional needs were met.

I imagine that line of thinking can be found elsewhere, too. But I suppose parents aren't likely to get a particularly helpful answer if they sit their two-year-old down and ask them would they prefer A or B...

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by rei

Ah, good point!

So parents who meet the child's emotional needs do not tend to have the child come home upset because kids at school made fun of their clothes/bag/whatever? Or that happens but the parent handles it well enough that the child continues to feel blessed? (I am assuming you're conscious enough to speak from experience )

Absolutely, I don't know your personal take on it, but to me lack is a state of mind, or a state of (un)consciousness. This may be confusing, but if you are conscious of your unconscious beliefs about money, then you know not to afflict your children with them. It's the people who aren't even conscious about their money beliefs that may sit at home dejected, say, on christmas day because they couldn't afford to buy their child tons of presents. A person without a lot of money can come up with other ways to make the day magical for their children.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

This poll is quite odd; 6 and 6 split over two categories and the percentages are 66.7% for both..?

You can pick more than one option, which might skew the numbers.
EDIT: Aside from that, I am not so interested in numbers, and don't care much about the statistical integrity of the poll

Originally Posted by aelle

It's funny that we see a dichotomy between an abundance of love and an abundance of physical goods, while completely overlooking many things that I believe are equally important to education. An abundance of intellectual ressources, of opportunities to build critical thought, of opportunities to build choice and decision making, to build willpower may even be more important than love.

Well, the topic of the thread isn't about education. Education is also an important part of growing up, but I also tend to think education is inevitable if you're living consciously (and would therefore be a natural part of raising a child)...

EDIT: Education is a broad topic, though, and we can find educational opportunities in many places. They don't all cost much money, though of course some of them do.

I would say parental love ideally includes empowerment (willpower, choices, etc.).

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Absolutely, I don't know your personal take on it, but to me lack is a state of mind, or a state of (un)consciousness.

Totally. I think it boils down to perception and the spin we put on things. Even an initially 'lackish' situation can be converted into opportunity.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

This may be confusing, but if you are conscious of your unconscious beliefs about money, then you know not to afflict your children with them. It's the people who aren't even conscious about their money beliefs that may sit at home dejected, say, on christmas day because they couldn't afford to buy their child tons of presents. A person without a lot of money can come up with other ways to make the day magical for their children.

Oddly enough, I was not confused reading that I'd say those beliefs in the unconscious parent could also lead to overspending for Christmas and then taking a second job to pay off the credit card...

[180]

The way I see it,

Emotional needs is what most of us are after.

After the threat of starvation is gone, we look for things to make us happy.

Clothes - Status/friendship needs of belonging
Junk Food - Hmm pleasure
TV, Electronics, Computer - Entertainment

etc...

If a parent gives their child all the intelligence and emotional needs they need, the child can learn to grow up emotionally mature without needing material needs to supply them with.

For example, I NEVER EVER EVER cared about what brand my clothes are. I am nicely dressed and I get a lot of compliments for it but my shirts are like $10. Pants have been with me for 6 years (barely washed btw).

Why don't I have this need to have the latest fashions? Because my parents have taught me to be emotionally secure with what I wear. I'm not needy or overly dependent on external sources to validate my emotions. I've learned that brand doesn't matter. And sure it matters to others, but it doesn't matter to me and doesn't bother me. Emotionally security.

But some people are this never ending black hole of emotional needs. There are NO material needs that could ever satisfy them because they haven't emotionally matured. Even if they owned the entire line of Gucci they could want more and more and more.

This is why I believe emotional care and education is much more important than material needs.

One man can be happy with $10 shoes, while another person will never be happy even with $10,000 shoes.

[rei]

Originally Posted by 180

The way I see it,

Emotional needs is what most of us are after.

After the threat of starvation is gone, we look for things to make us happy.

Clothes - Status/friendship needs of belonging
Junk Food - Hmm pleasure
TV, Electronics, Computer - Entertainment

Oh, well I do not consider clothes, junk food or electronics to be things that meet our emotional needs. (Those things provide temporary gratification and pleasure, but to me emotional needs are most effectively approached in other ways that create more lasting fulfillment.) To me, emotional needs are best met by human beings. They include things like feeling accepted unconditionally, feeling safe, feeling supported, having a sense of freedom to make your own choices in life instead of feeling pressure to be what others expect (including your parents). That last one might be a higher-level thing, though, as I am not sure I have met anyone who totally felt that way in their family.

But emotional needs, in my view, are not fulfilled by objects. They are fulfilled by relationships.

Interesting how you view them, though. The way you view them seems to blend with the material stuff, but it's interesting.

[rei]

Haha Criseyde, I just realized what you were getting at with the poll percentages. That is weird.