Bullies?

[shakra]

Originally Posted by TiffyLove

I know we want people to be nice, we want to demand respect, and make people treat us properly. But the truth is, it could be exhausting going through life trying to force people to act the way that suits us. Not to mention it doesn't work. But we can focus on how we treat others and how we let others effect us.

I am in no way saying his behavior is ok and you are in the wrong. I am just saying that trying to change his behavior is pointless.

Excellent advice.... it's only through adopting complete acceptance of someone else's behaviour (which I disagree with) have I been able to find peace with myself instead of tormenting myself and constantly wondering how I can make them see the error of their ways and apologise.

[ssandra]

I've been reading along here, but I didn't respond yet.

I actually disagree with most opinions here... I think it is normal and natural for you to be attracted to someone who has been through the same bad things as you have.

I think it makes you a wonderful and great person not to give up on someone after making one or a few mistakes, especially because he seems willing to change, even when he's failing miserably at it.

You have NO control what so ever over someone else s behavior. The only thing you can control is your thoughts about someone else s behavior.

What if you could shift your perspective so that whatever he said, it wouldn't get to you anymore? That he could do and say whatever he wanted, and you could still see him for the potentially great person that he is?

From that point of freedom you can then decide if you want to continue this friendship, while helping him becoming a better person (if he is interested in this) or to discontinue the friendship and look for a new friend.

I agree that having sex with him or not, doesn't really matter in this situation. You needed comfort and hugs, he probably needed the same, and you were there for each other. That is perfectly normal and natural, and in 2 adults it doesn't have to come in the way of friendship. It can enhance friendship, or it could potentially transform it, but it can also be a nice addition and nothing more.


Have you had a serious talk with him about this? I know that you have stood up for yourself whenever he showed the behavior that wasn't acceptable to you (which is great! Standing up for yourself is important for your emotional health!), but have you tried having a conversation with him about it at a moment that he wasn't having this behavior?

It might be interesting for you to learn what goes through his mind when he is in this hurtful mode... Maybe it is a way of saying "I'm hurting and therefor I'm hurting you!" and maybe it could all be solved by him and you agreeing on a secret code word that when he says it, you give him a friendly hug?

Or maybe he really is an ass...

But either way, you do not need yourself to get emotionally affected by his actions or words. You have the power to choose not to be affected and you have the power to choose from that point of freedom how you want to deal with this situation.

Lots of love to you!!!

oh, and I think you are exceptionally brave for sharing this here with us! I think this is a clear sign that you are not in victim mode anymore, but well on your way to being powerfully choosing who and how you respond to!

[elucidate]

Oh thankyou sandra. You are really the only one so far that has made me feel like you are understanding my situation, which I have tried to clearly outline. This is why I don't really post alot when I need help...it's interesting to be on the other end of the page, recieving and be open to peoples potential misunderstandings, misreading of my words, ignorant judgements and overall criticisms and comparisons of what they would do compared to me, which doesn't help the person at all. I'm wholly capable of doing this myself, btw.

I am a survivor...as is he.

We found each other, and he is the only one who has been really there for me, when my blood relatives abandoned me. He has been nothing but encouraging and genuinely supportive and happy to see me progress, even though his own life has been slowly deteriorating whilst mine has shot back to a place of powering on.
I can hardly walk away from him when he is suffering so much...though I don't like it when he speaks like he does...I've always understood that it comes from his own inner conflicts and has nothing to do with me.
It has turned into a unique friendship for me, and him I'm guessing, since most of his friends aren't like me, aren't as self-aware, and certainly aren't as stable. He is desperately trying to get his life back on track and be around people like me, so he can.

Thankyou so much for understanding me here...it means so much. I feel like I've contributed a fair bit to this forum over the last few months, and I think I have helped lots of people. Opening myself this way to asking for understanding and help with this, wasn't easy, but your post has really made my heart leap with joy that someone can see that I'm not just an idiot, or someone trying to control someone elses behaviour. I'm not...I've said a few times now, that I'm not interested in controlling him or changing his behaviour, but that by asserting my boundaries, it does change my reality and creates more self-respect and more respect for me, by him.

He has relapses and I know that he is jealous of me because my life is back on track, and his is still horribly stagnant, and he is doing his best to take care of himself and get back to work, after he lost his business, has had a string of physical ailments and mental challenges as well as financial struggles and horrible housemates to contend with. He is a very loyal person to his friends.,..even when they treat him like total ****...which I have tried to say many times that he'd be better off without them, but he won't budge. He has a unique ability to see past peoples horrible behaviour to what they are underneath it, which I admire, and am trying to do the same with him.

He has a good heart, underneath all the crudity and vulgarness...which I am learning alot from by knowing him.

He has very different beliefs to me, but he is always there for me and yes, I need comfort and cuddles, and he is always there with open arms to give me this. I've been through a HELL of alot in recent years, and so has he. It is hard for anyone who isn't me to understand that...so I'm very grateful that you were able to sandra.

I have been cutting the etheric cords which have made me feel better...and like you suggested, my psychologist also was steering me towards trying to get to a point where nothing touches me when he does say these things.

I believe we train people to treat us the way they do, so when I stop him from talking over me while I'm talking, he listens and stops talking...he respects that it's my turn to speak. He adapts to me...it's not "changing his behaviour" I know I can't do that. I can choose how I respond to him when he gets this way...and he knows by now that I don't stand for it, and will literally leave him in a bar, or leave his house without saying anything, when he does display rudeness or speaks in a way that isn't respectful.

Originally Posted by ssandra

I've been reading along here, but I didn't respond yet.

I actually disagree with most opinions here... I think it is normal and natural for you to be attracted to someone who has been through the same bad things as you have.

I think it makes you a wonderful and great person not to give up on someone after making one or a few mistakes, especially because he seems willing to change, even when he's failing miserably at it.

You have NO control what so ever over someone else s behavior. The only thing you can control is your thoughts about someone else s behavior.

What if you could shift your perspective so that whatever he said, it wouldn't get to you anymore? That he could do and say whatever he wanted, and you could still see him for the potentially great person that he is?

From that point of freedom you can then decide if you want to continue this friendship, while helping him becoming a better person (if he is interested in this) or to discontinue the friendship and look for a new friend.

I agree that having sex with him or not, doesn't really matter in this situation. You needed comfort and hugs, he probably needed the same, and you were there for each other. That is perfectly normal and natural, and in 2 adults it doesn't have to come in the way of friendship. It can enhance friendship, or it could potentially transform it, but it can also be a nice addition and nothing more.


Have you had a serious talk with him about this? I know that you have stood up for yourself whenever he showed the behavior that wasn't acceptable to you (which is great! Standing up for yourself is important for your emotional health!), but have you tried having a conversation with him about it at a moment that he wasn't having this behavior?

It might be interesting for you to learn what goes through his mind when he is in this hurtful mode... Maybe it is a way of saying "I'm hurting and therefor I'm hurting you!" and maybe it could all be solved by him and you agreeing on a secret code word that when he says it, you give him a friendly hug?

Or maybe he really is an ass...

But either way, you do not need yourself to get emotionally affected by his actions or words. You have the power to choose not to be affected and you have the power to choose from that point of freedom how you want to deal with this situation.

Lots of love to you!!!

oh, and I think you are exceptionally brave for sharing this here with us! I think this is a clear sign that you are not in victim mode anymore, but well on your way to being powerfully choosing who and how you respond to!

[elucidate]

I forgot to answer your question about having a conversation with him about this and maybe even a special word, when he might just need a cuddle. That's a great idea, and I'll try that...though I want to just have some distance from him for a bit...maybe talk to him on the phone. I go from one minute totally wanting to banish him, and hearing my intuition telling me to, to then go "I can't just abandon him...he needs me, he's suffering." I'm trying to balance it all up so that I don't get pulled down by him...but honestly, I think I've done a pretty good job of remaining neutral when he does get obnoxious. I know the place it's coming from.

He can be a real ass, and he knows it...I just don't think he would be this way if he didn't have so much on his plate right now. I mean, he's even had 2 Chilean Shamans try and remove a curse from him, as it has been non stop for over 10 years...which is also how it was for me, when my life became a living nightmare...10 years of near constant BS being thrown at me, asses and dicks everywhere bringing me down, and me not having the strength and confidence to stop it. That's where he is now, and he lashes out at times. I get that...I realise that I do it to. That doesn't make me a bad person...
I'm a great person with the Biggest heart that I've ever met, so I have a different perspective on things, now that I am coming from a totally different place than where I was a few years ago.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Oh thankyou sandra. You are really the only one so far that has made me feel like you are understanding my situation, which I have tried to clearly outline. This is why I don't really post alot when I need help...it's interesting to be on the other end of the page, recieving and be open to peoples potential misunderstandings, misreading of my words, ignorant judgements and overall criticisms and comparisons of what they would do compared to me, which doesn't help the person at all. I'm wholly capable of doing this myself, btw.

People usually post from their own experience and from what they wanted or wished that they would do.

So someone who was bullied before in their life and maybe did or did not stand up for themselves will read this post and automatically go back to that time when they were abused and feel that anger and helplessness again, and answer from that frame of mind

This is what usually happens, instead of listing to what someone is really writing and asking for. I'm not saying that this happened with everybody here in this thread, but it happens a lot....

I am a survivor...as is he.

We found each other, and he is the only one who has been really there for me, when my blood relatives abandoned me. He has been nothing but encouraging and genuinely supportive and happy to see me progress, even though his own life has been slowly deteriorating whilst mine has shot back to a place of powering on.
I can hardly walk away from him when he is suffering so much...though I don't like it when he speaks like he does...I've always understood that it comes from his own inner conflicts and has nothing to do with me.
It has turned into a unique friendship for me, and him I'm guessing, since most of his friends aren't like me, aren't as self-aware, and certainly aren't as stable. He is desperately trying to get his life back on track and be around people like me, so he can.

I get that. I think it is very important to choose your own health and well being (emotional and physical) over that of other people... but once you've secured that, there is no need to run away from negative people, especially not when they have shown that they are capable and willing to change. I think way too much focus is put on deleting people from your life, when they are negative or not very good for you... Yet people still expect others to be there for them, to care for them when they are feeling bad or negative.

What type of friendship is that? Using what someone willingly gives you, and turning your back when they need you?

I'm glad to know that you are not one of those persons.

Important: I'm not saying that his needs are more important then yours! They are not!! But neither is you feeling everything is happy and sunshine more important then helping a friend who is in need.

Thankyou so much for understanding me here...it means so much. I feel like I've contributed a fair bit to this forum over the last few months, and I think I have helped lots of people.

You have, and I for one am grateful that you are here on the forums. I always look forward to your post, because they make sense and are helpful

Opening myself this way to asking for understanding and help with this, wasn't easy, but your post has really made my heart leap with joy that someone can see that I'm not just an idiot, or someone trying to control someone elses behaviour. I'm not...I've said a few times now, that I'm not interested in controlling him or changing his behaviour, but that by asserting my boundaries, it does change my reality and creates more self-respect and more respect for me, by him.

And I think you are doing great! Asserting your boundaries is healthy behavior. There is no reason why you should let someone walk all over you.

Now I think you are ready for the next step... to not let his behavior get to you anymore. Where you get to the point that you can ignore his bad behavior, without the need to walk away or not talk to him for a few months. Where it just falls off you, without leaving marks.

When you are capable of that, you don't have to choose anymore between him and the great new friends, or nobody. You can be there, ignore his behavior, while not ignoring him as a person. I can imagine that for him, ignoring must bring back some bad memories as well, and may create some strong reactions as well...

He has relapses and I know that he is jealous of me because my life is back on track, and his is still horribly stagnant, and he is doing his best to take care of himself and get back to work, after he lost his business, has had a string of physical ailments and mental challenges as well as financial struggles and horrible housemates to contend with. He is a very loyal person to his friends.,..even when they treat him like total ****...which I have tried to say many times that he'd be better off without them, but he won't budge. He has a unique ability to see past peoples horrible behaviour to what they are underneath it, which I admire, and am trying to do the same with him.

He has a good heart, underneath all the crudity and vulgarness...which I am learning alot from by knowing him.

Maybe that is why he is in your life? A basically good person, with some abuser traits to help you deal with this part of yourself in a relatively safe environment.

He sounds to me like a great person, with some issues (but... who doesn't have issues )

Have you tried talking to him? Telling him not just that you do not accept this type of behavior, but how it makes you feel? An honest and open conversation about how you feel, how he feels and how you can help each other to feel better?

I have been cutting the etheric cords which have made me feel better...and like you suggested, my psychologist also was steering me towards trying to get to a point where nothing touches me when he does say these things.

When people say hurtful things, it is usually because they are hurting themselves.

What has helped me a lot is to picture them differently. Picture a very cute, tiny little puppy. It has been kicked and abused a lot, the poor thing. Now, you reach out and try to pet it, to be nice, but because it has been hurt so much and is hurting, it growls and snaps at you.

For me, that picture conveys sadness, and compassion for the poor puppy.

I think that every time someone says something hurtful to me. I picture them as that puppy.

All of the sudden, I'm not hurt anymore. I'm feeling sadness and compassion for them.

Maybe this is something you can try as well?

I believe we train people to treat us the way they do, so when I stop him from talking over me while I'm talking, he listens and stops talking...he respects that it's my turn to speak. He adapts to me...it's not "changing his behaviour" I know I can't do that. I can choose how I respond to him when he gets this way...and he knows by now that I don't stand for it, and will literally leave him in a bar, or leave his house without saying anything, when he does display rudeness or speaks in a way that isn't respectful.

True. You train people how to interact with you, or you can walk away from them.

You cannot change someone who doesn't want to change themselves. But it is entirely possible to help someone to change, if they themselves want to make that change!!!

[elucidate]

Thanks. I feel understood completely, and I'm impressed by your balanced insights here. People do often react to things they read based on their own past experiences...it doesn't mean I have to feel bad about it.

Yes, to answer your question, I have spoken to him at different times to when he was actually being rude and not where I had to stand up to him...but consciously raising the subject with him, and telling him that I felt belittled, and that's why I ignored him for 3 whole months (while he slipped into psychosis, which I didn't know)

He has had a few different reactions to this when I broing it up, ranging from genuinely not realising that I felt this way, and not understanding why...to denying that he did anything, which I reinforce that I felt this way, until he admits that he accepts that I felt that way, even if he can't or won't recall what he did.

He is open to communicating with me about things like this, and has said before that I can talk to him about anything if I need to.

This week I have been in conflict. A part of me thinking I need to just cut him off and move on for my own self-preservation, and then inside just hearing how much he needs me and is suffering, and I can hardly just turn the cheek when he was the only one who was there for me, and would give me the shirt off his back if I needed it.

He is a pretty cool guy, who just has periods where he gets REALLY intense and episodic. There are things about his way of thinking that I don't agree with, but it shouldn't be the basis for ending a friendship. There are things about me that he doesn't get or agree with, but he still accepts me...most of the time, when he isn't hating himself.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by elucidate

Thanks. I feel understood completely, and I'm impressed by your balanced insights here. People do often react to things they read based on their own past experiences...it doesn't mean I have to feel bad about it.

Yes, to answer your question, I have spoken to him at different times to when he was actually being rude and not where I had to stand up to him...but consciously raising the subject with him, and telling him that I felt belittled, and that's why I ignored him for 3 whole months (while he slipped into psychosis, which I didn't know)

I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding completely... have you talk to him about this as well in a period when things were going good, both with him and with you? Or only when the behavior was already unacceptable?

He has had a few different reactions to this when I broing it up, ranging from genuinely not realising that I felt this way, and not understanding why...to denying that he did anything, which I reinforce that I felt this way, until he admits that he accepts that I felt that way, even if he can't or won't recall what he did.

At some point you will learn and accept that your feelings do not depend on him owning up to what he is doing.

You talking to him about how you feel is for HIS benefit. Not for yours. Being dependent on him for your feelings (good or bad) is not the best possible way of handling this.

You being responsible for your own feelings and choosing how you want to feel regardless of how others treat you or think about you is a place of freedom from where you can (if you want to) be there for the other person to help them grow.

He is open to communicating with me about things like this, and has said before that I can talk to him about anything if I need to.

This week I have been in conflict. A part of me thinking I need to just cut him off and move on for my own self-preservation, and then inside just hearing how much he needs me and is suffering, and I can hardly just turn the cheek when he was the only one who was there for me, and would give me the shirt off his back if I needed it.

I think that part of the wanting to cut him off might come from a very strong sense of self preservation. The fight or flight instinct. You've been in bad situations before, and now when something even hints at a bad situation, you feel the urge to run, to not have it happen to you again. Does that sound about right?

What I think is important to ask yourself here, is if you are running away from the situation or if you choosing to not be involved in this situation, without emotions, from a place of joy and freedom?

If it is the first, you will just keep running into these situations until you learn to deal with them.

If it is the second, that is a powerful choice and a way to assert your personal power.

(all this in my opinion of course Feel free to tell me I'm talking out of my .... )

He is a pretty cool guy, who just has periods where he gets REALLY intense and episodic. There are things about his way of thinking that I don't agree with, but it shouldn't be the basis for ending a friendship. There are things about me that he doesn't get or agree with, but he still accepts me...most of the time, when he isn't hating himself.

If you feel it is actually bad for your health and it deteriorates the progress you've made so far, by all means, cut him loose, set yourself free.

However, you can also take this opportunity to learn and to grow and to not depend on others for your own well being anymore...

Make sure thought that your own health and well being are ALWAYS the most important thing when you are making your decisions.
That doesn't always mean doing the easy thing, or the thing that feels best in the short term. Sometimes short term uneasiness or pain can be a powerful start for growth in the long term. Only you know what you feel, how you feel and what is best for you!

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding completely... have you talk to him about this as well in a period when things were going good, both with him and with you? Or only when the behavior was already unacceptable?

Guess I didn't make it clear enough...Yes, I have spoken to him about it both at the time and later on , like if he would bring it up at a later time, that I just stopped talking to him for 3 months, which I did once, saying that I needed to be around more sensitive people. I would then repeat my reasons calmly and say that his behaviour was belittling towards me and I wasn't prepared to stick around for it.

At some point you will learn and accept that your feelings do not depend on him owning up to what he is doing.

Yeah, I guess I didn't write that one out well enough. It's not that I depend on him to admit it...I know that I can't make him. But when I have expressed how his behaviour made me feel, HE has said without any prompting from me..."well, I believe that you felt that way, I'm not saying you didn't" he just wouldn't realise what he'd done. I wouldn't push the subject...though, if he denies bad behaviour, then I get a bit arked up and stand my ground, saying that he did say what he denies saying...and if he doesn't admit to it, well, then the subject just gets dropped cos I know I can't MAKE him!

You talking to him about how you feel is for HIS benefit. Not for yours. Being dependent on him for your feelings (good or bad) is not the best possible way of handling this.

I agree. I don't think I do depend on him for the way I feel. It's my job to make me happy...not his!

You being responsible for your own feelings and choosing how you want to feel regardless of how others treat you or think about you is a place of freedom from where you can (if you want to) be there for the other person to help them grow.

I agree. I am learning how to do this, though sometimes I revert into unconcsious reaction to thoughts which cause me to feel a certain way.

I think that part of the wanting to cut him off might come from a very strong sense of self preservation. The fight or flight instinct. You've been in bad situations before, and now when something even hints at a bad situation, you feel the urge to run, to not have it happen to you again. Does that sound about right?

Yes, that's right. I've escaped from abusive men before, so I'm pretty hyper alert to any signs of things escalating beyond a point where I know it's not gonna ever stop, and he isn't gonna change.

What I think is important to ask yourself here, is if you are running away from the situation or if you choosing to not be involved in this situation, without emotions, from a place of joy and freedom?

Yes, I think it's the first one. I think I want to just run away because it's easier...and my life is back on track and I want to be around positive people who have money and aren't broke and always complaining about their situation. That's another real thing that is making me want to run...he is starting to bore me with his predictable conversation, and his complaints and the loops he gets stuck in in his mind where he talks about the same stuff over and over...it's starting to set off a red flag in my mind that the friendship has turned a bit stale for me. Is that mean? I feel like I'm just being honest. He's stuck on a couch recovering from a foot injury and all he does is watch futurama and family guy reruns ALL DAY LONG!

[ssandra]

Guess I didn't make it clear enough...

Yeah, I guess I didn't write that one out well enough.

Or we both simply have different reference points in our lifes and therefor some things might need some extra explaining.

You didn't do anything "wrong" or "not good enough" nor I...

It might be a good starting point for you (if you want to) to think about why your first reaction is "I did something wrong / I did something not good enough".
You could have just as easily thought "he stupid cow, learn how to read!" Or similar thoughts, but nicer

It's not that I depend on him to admit it...I know that I can't make him. But when I have expressed how his behaviour made me feel, HE has said without any prompting from me..."well, I believe that you felt that way, I'm not saying you didn't" he just wouldn't realise what he'd done. I wouldn't push the subject...though, if he denies bad behaviour, then I get a bit arked up and stand my ground, saying that he did say what he denies saying...and if he doesn't admit to it, well, then the subject just gets dropped cos I know I can't MAKE him!

I have this feeling (I might be way off) that you are half way there. You don't NEED him to admit things, you don't feel worse when he doesn't...

But you do WANT him to own up... you would feel better when he does...

The key for me was when you wrote :though, if he denies bad behaviour, then I get a bit arked up and stand my ground, saying that he did say what he denies saying...

The part where you say getting arked up... that is your choice. You can also choose to not get that way. It is difficult, but the more you consciously choose that, the easier and more natural it gets.

Maybe you will eventually even be grateful for him providing you with opportunities where you can practice consciously feeling the way you want to feel instead of being reactive to other people?

I agree. I am learning how to do this, though sometimes I revert into unconcsious reaction to thoughts which cause me to feel a certain way.

Yeah, that happens Here is a good article on anchors and how they can make you instantly feel bad (or good) and some tips on how to change a negative or unwanted anchor:

NLP and 'Anchor Hunting'

The NLP Swish Technique

Yes, I think it's the first one. I think I want to just run away because it's easier...and my life is back on track and I want to be around positive people who have money and aren't broke and always complaining about their situation. That's another real thing that is making me want to run...he is starting to bore me with his predictable conversation, and his complaints and the loops he gets stuck in in his mind where he talks about the same stuff over and over...it's starting to set off a red flag in my mind that the friendship has turned a bit stale for me. Is that mean? I feel like I'm just being honest. He's stuck on a couch recovering from a foot injury and all he does is watch futurama and family guy reruns ALL DAY LONG!

No, you are not mean

And no, my opinion on you being mean or not, shouldn't matter!

Of course you want to be around high conscious, happy, cheerful people!!! That is only normal!

I do not want to be around people who do not want to take responsibility for their own lives and will just pretend to be victim of the circumstances. It doesn't matter for me if they fail at practicing this, failing is human. But if they are unwilling to even look at the possibility of taking responsibility, I'll tell them, give them a chance, maybe a few... and then they are OUT.

There is no reason why you should put up with boring people who bore you and add nothing to your life.

But... make sure you are not using these things as excuses (the mind has an infinite capacity of making excuses sound reasonable and sound like reasons, I've discovered) to "run away" instead of dealing with the issue of bullying at hand

[elucidate]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Or we both simply have different reference points in our lifes and therefor some things might need some extra explaining.

You didn't do anything "wrong" or "not good enough" nor I...

It might be a good starting point for you (if you want to) to think about why your first reaction is "I did something wrong / I did something not good enough".
You could have just as easily thought "he stupid cow, learn how to read!" Or similar thoughts, but nicer

Actually, that WAS me saying a polite version of the "learn to read" thing

I have this feeling (I might be way off) that you are half way there. You don't NEED him to admit things, you don't feel worse when he doesn't...

But you do WANT him to own up... you would feel better when he does...

The key for me was when you wrote :though, if he denies bad behaviour, then I get a bit arked up and stand my ground, saying that he did say what he denies saying...

The part where you say getting arked up... that is your choice. You can also choose to not get that way. It is difficult, but the more you consciously choose that, the easier and more natural it gets.

Maybe you will eventually even be grateful for him providing you with opportunities where you can practice consciously feeling the way you want to feel instead of being reactive to other people?

Oh yes, I already do feel grateful. I've seen the whole relationship from the start as a great opportunity to practise not reacting and chosing my responses in a powerful way. And thankfully, he provides me with a plethora of these opportunities

I view most people I meet in this way as well, just an opportunity to improve at getting better at communicating consciously and not reacting and being controlled.

Yeah, that happens Here is a good article on anchors and how they can make you instantly feel bad (or good) and some tips on how to change a negative or unwanted anchor:

NLP and 'Anchor Hunting'

The NLP Swish Technique

Thanks

No, you are not mean

And no, my opinion on you being mean or not, shouldn't matter!

Of course you want to be around high conscious, happy, cheerful people!!! That is only normal!

I do not want to be around people who do not want to take responsibility for their own lives and will just pretend to be victim of the circumstances. It doesn't matter for me if they fail at practicing this, failing is human. But if they are unwilling to even look at the possibility of taking responsibility, I'll tell them, give them a chance, maybe a few... and then they are OUT.

There is no reason why you should put up with boring people who bore you and add nothing to your life.

But... make sure you are not using these things as excuses (the mind has an infinite capacity of making excuses sound reasonable and sound like reasons, I've discovered) to "run away" instead of dealing with the issue of bullying at hand

I agree. I think at this stage the feelings of being bored, coupled with my judgement that he isn't going to improve anytime soon, have sealed my decision here...though I can always check up on him now and then, from a distance, and see if he has pulled his socks up. But I'm the same...I give people the chance to change if it seems like they really want to. I can see he really does want to get his life back on track and is totally over it himself and frustrated at the lack of progress he is making...I'm just not fully convinced that he's willing to really look at how HE is causing alot of his problems and take responsability. At the moment he is pretty caught up in the "blame the parents" stage...but he's 37! I think he has arrested development, cos he's still bitching about the fact that his parents didn't buy him a tool box when he started his own business (at 34) but they paid for his sisters school books when they went to uni. It's just unbelievably childish, and absurd as he is this big karate dude, supposedly tough as nails, crying over his parents not buying him a toolbox

But then it's not my reality, it's his emotional stuff, which I don't mean to invalidate, but...SHEESH!

[Gracestars]

I get what you're saying, and fair enough. I think it's perfectly reasonable and understandable to want to rectify the situation, and to find a better way of communicating with each other so that the friendship/relationship can continue. Cutting people off is not easy, neither is being cut off. If it were easy, then the relationship would not have meant much in the first place.

I'm sorry you haven't felt much understood here. It makes more sense reading the positives that the relationship has brought you too, and more understandable why you are struggling with whether to let this person go or not.

If you can find a way to keep him in your life that is healthy and supportive for you then I think that's awesome. If not, I hope the next person who enters your world to fulfill this sort of place in your life is one that respects you fully.

All the best with it. xx

Originally Posted by elucidate

Yes, I understand, and you're right. I kinda got caught up in an old pattern I think. Doing my best to release it.

I just thought, if I could get him to respect me more by not standing for it, then it would transform the relating from his position. This was also confirmed to me, and encouraged by my psychologist/counsellor at the time. Obviously it's not gonna change though.

I have been doing some etheric cord cutting which has helped immensely with returning my energy to me and feeling more peaceful, so I'm happy about that.

[elucidate]

Thanks Grace. I do feel alot more understood now.

I wasn't aiming that at you by the way, it was an overall feeling I was getting.

Things are never as clear cut as they might seem, it's not always easy to convey that over the internet.

I think I will create some distance between us, for a while at least...I've done this before, and when I dod, I though it might give him space to get his act on track again, but he ended up in an even bigger hole than where I left him...he's got real issues...and whilst it's not my problem, I do feel a certain loyalty towards him, since he was really there for me...like with that incident I shared with you in PM...he totally supported me through that.

I know that I don't owe him anything, and I'm not obligated to stay friends with him, I just find it very hard to say " I don't want to be friends with you anymore". I've had it done to me by a woman I once knew, and she did it really well, so I could try copying her method I guess?

I don't want to be brought back down into the pit of depression by him, which is why I don't visit him that often...maybe once a fortnight, sometimes once or twice a month...which I can handle. I just know what it's like to be in that state and everyone just abandons you, and there's noone. In some ways it's better this way, as you can concentrate on getting well again...and in others, it's just an extremely harsh and stark reality of that state of mind. Luckily I do enjoy being alone fairly regularly, but not all the time...I still need human contact and affection.

I am making more friends slowly, so I have alot more options now as to who I spend time with if I need affection. It doesn't have to be just him anymore...and he's been encouraging that for me since we met. It's not like he's trying to keep me all to himself...and we both know we aren't really suited as a couple...it's sort of a polyamorous situation actually. He's free to have sex with other women, and I don't get all wierd or jealous about it...I've even gotten along well with one woman he was seeing also. It's been an interesting experience actually, and I've done a good job I think of really using it as an opportunity to improve my assertiveness, so it hasn't been a total loss or waste of time.

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I get what you're saying, and fair enough. I think it's perfectly reasonable and understandable to want to rectify the situation, and to find a better way of communicating with each other so that the friendship/relationship can continue. Cutting people off is not easy, neither is being cut off. If it were easy, then the relationship would not have meant much in the first place.

I'm sorry you haven't felt much understood here. It makes more sense reading the positives that the relationship has brought you too, and more understandable why you are struggling with whether to let this person go or not.

If you can find a way to keep him in your life that is healthy and supportive for you then I think that's awesome. If not, I hope the next person who enters your world to fulfill this sort of place in your life is one that respects you fully.

All the best with it. xx

[Elrond]

YouTube - Bullying The Bully WIN

[elucidate]

He definately thinks he's funny...but he seems to be the only one. It's not just me that notices this. He's made irish jokes in front of my irish housemate , in her house, the first time he'd met her and thought it was hilarious and that SHE needed to lighten up. Whenever he gets offensive, it's always someone else that needs to lighten up or that is "nuts"...never him!

I never said I loathe him, I just don't like it when he behaves this way. Maybe I do need to develop a thicker skin...or maybe he needs to develop a sense of humour that doesn't involve belittling people to make himself feel better. It's obviously a lesson...I'm aware of that, and I have a fair idea what that lesson is.

I don't think he is all that bad...and I never said this...I just asked for strategies on how to deal with him when he gets like this?

Originally Posted by shakra

maybe the universe wants you to learn something from this friendship..

maybe he's just got a weird sense of humour and thinks he's being funny.. ??

if he's introduced you to so many cool people that you enjoy he cant be that bad.. do they all enjoy his company or loathe him as you do??

Maybe you need to develop a thicker skin...

Dont know if this helps or not

[elucidate]

I agree with this, hence my asking for tips on how to deal with his tendencies when they crop up. I'm not trying to "change him", I just want to know how to better deal with him.

Originally Posted by shakra

Excellent advice.... it's only through adopting complete acceptance of someone else's behaviour (which I disagree with) have I been able to find peace with myself instead of tormenting myself and constantly wondering how I can make them see the error of their ways and apologise.

[elucidate]

This keeps coming up as an error URL.

If it is related to actually giving the bully back his own behaviour, and that was the motivation behind you posting this, then I've already tried that approach.

Whenever he acts this way, I turn it around on him and pick out some imperfection of his and draw attention to it, and guess what...he doesn't like that Funny that...they can dish it up but they can't take it when you throw it back at them.

I think he gets the point though...and he does back off with the criticisms.

Originally Posted by Elrond

YouTube - Bullying The Bully WIN