A little dilemma...

[mikethedrummer44]

I'm in a kinda sticky situation here, and I was wondering if you guys had any advice.

I'm in a band with a few of my friends, and we're serious about it. We've had a lot of success locally, but there's no opportunity here. This September, we plan on moving to California, because there's a much greater chance of us succeeding there. There's five of us, the our singer isn't willing to move. That leaves four of us moving. Here's the problem. I'd say we're all good at our instruments except for one of our guitarists. He is AWFUL. We only have him in the band because he was our good friend when we started it. When we went to record our EP, it was embarrassing, because our producer had to re-record all of his parts. He's not very coordinated, and is extremely stiff on stage, which hurts our live performance. On top of this, he's emotionally unstable. We've had two people leave the band in the past because of things he's said, and we had to stop working with our old manager because he couldn't hold his tongue. If we do get bigger, this is going to be a huge problem.

After all of this, it seems we should just kick him out. But we can't do that, because he's our friend, and this band is everything he has. With him being as unstable as he is, if we kicked him out, I'm afraid he would become very self-destructive.

We thought this was just going to work itself out, because him and his girlfriend we're getting really close. We didn't think he'd want to leave her to go to California, and he told us he was concerned she wouldn't stay with him if he left. So we figured he'd just stay with her. Instead of doing that, though, he proposed to her and their now engaged. Now that he knows she'll stay with him for the few months he'll be gone, there's nothing stopping him.

I don't really know what to do. I can't imagine a scenario where we succeed with having him in the band. However, he's still my friend, and if we just let him go, I'm worried about what he'd do. Any advice?

[Andrew Brunelle]

That is a tough situation. I've never been in a band, but I know enough that if you truly want to be successful, you'll do whatever it takes to get there. Sure, you may hurt your friend, but he needs to provide value to your band, not bring it down. Otherwise, he'll hamper the band' success. You can still be friends, but just tell him he needs to work on becoming a better musician before you can have him rejoin the band.

[ssandra]

Isn't there a middle solution?

For example, what if you told him that (in a nice way, if that is possible) his playing is not up to standard to what you want for the band, but that he is a too valuable member to just let go.

Since he is very good at X, Y, Z (don't make something up, but exaggerate something maybe) you wanted to ask him if he was willing to manage the band, arrange for bookings, do the marketing, write songs, etc. Something he would be at least better at then playing guitar

The part where he is emotional unstable would be something he would need to work on himself.

It might not be a good idea to mention this at this time, 1 thing he'll be rejected on will be enough I think.

But later on you can mention it.

If he is really your friend and you are getting famous and he is emotionally unstable, you will be doing him no favor. Drugs and an early death are way more likely. You don't want to do that to a friend.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Isn't there a middle solution?

For example, what if you told him that (in a nice way, if that is possible) his playing is not up to standard to what you want for the band, but that he is a too valuable member to just let go.

Since he is very good at X, Y, Z (don't make something up, but exaggerate something maybe) you wanted to ask him if he was willing to manage the band, arrange for bookings, do the marketing, write songs, etc. Something he would be at least better at then playing guitar

Excellent idea. Find some other way for him to play a part.

[mikethedrummer44]

He's also extremely prideful, so telling him he needs to practice doesn't go down too well. I really like the idea of having him do something else as well. I'll think about it.

I'm not sure if I can picture him doing drugs, but he does have an alcohol problem. One time we had to literally drag him out of a show and take him to the hospital because of it.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

I'm not sure if I can picture him doing drugs, but he does have an alcohol problem. One time we had to literally drag him out of a show and take him to the hospital because of it.

If he is already having troubles with alcohol

If he is emotionally unstable

If he is extremely prideful...

How long do you think it will take him before some dealer comes up to him tells him, here this helps with the stress and he'll be hooked?

Trust me... Even the alcohol will become a worse problem once he has more access and less people around him with common sense!

Btw... this might be something you want to discuss with your bandmembers anyway... how are you going to handle drugs and alcohol abuse within the band? Will you allow it? Kick the person out? etc. Better to talk about it before before you ruin your chance of a big break because some people cannot hold it together!

[mikethedrummer44]

We've already talked about it. We're fine with alcohol in moderation, but if someone starts doing drugs there out. And I see what you're saying. He does have that type of personality.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

I'm in a band with a few of my friends, and we're serious about it. We've had a lot of success locally, but there's no opportunity here. This September, we plan on moving to California, because there's a much greater chance of us succeeding there.

Mike - could I put you in touch with my brother? He's in a band in Los Angeles - or at least playing music professionally. He's been at it for a while, and last I heard he's been doing well. He may have connections that could be useful for you. He's actually a drummer, too.

[mainstreetcm]

In a creative atmosphere I am always preaching that you need to be honest. Whether this is a writing team or a band is irrelevant. You could discuss with him that the band is going in "this" direction over here and the fit just isn't right. You don't need to be rude about it. We all have qualities that can be accentuated in any situation.

But to take someone on-board that is pulling all of you down doesn't make much sense from a creative perspective. Some people aren't meant to be musicians, whatever the reason. I've been told my writing absolutely sucks. I've also been told that its great -- showing that the creative process is all subjective.

If anything, if he really is your friend, just be honest with him. Think about this. What happens if you guys all move out to Cali and you start playing small bar gigs and you catch a reps eye? If the rep (agent, local dj, executive, etc.) doesn't like the guy he won't sign you until you get rid of him -- or he will sign you with the assumption that the weakest link has to go.

Honesty sometimes hurts, but its the best way to play your cards in these scenarios...

[mikethedrummer44]

Sure, I'd be down to talk to someone doing well in the industry.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

Sure, I'd be down to talk to someone doing well in the industry.

Cool beans. I'll send you PM.

[MyEyeIsOpen]

I've been in this situation a few times (just replace "band" with "business"). I've learned the hard way not to **** around. If there's a problem, then you say it. If someone needs to go, then you fire them.

If they are your friend they'll understand that it's a business decision. A band doesn't need a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ guitar player. Let him worry about his hurt feelings.

(That's my inner callous, business guy coming out 8))

[pinky3]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

I'm in a kinda sticky situation here, and I was wondering if you guys had any advice.

I'm in a band with a few of my friends, and we're serious about it. We've had a lot of success locally, but there's no opportunity here. This September, we plan on moving to California, because there's a much greater chance of us succeeding there. There's five of us, the our singer isn't willing to move. That leaves four of us moving. Here's the problem. I'd say we're all good at our instruments except for one of our guitarists. He is AWFUL. We only have him in the band because he was our good friend when we started it. When we went to record our EP, it was embarrassing, because our producer had to re-record all of his parts. He's not very coordinated, and is extremely stiff on stage, which hurts our live performance. On top of this, he's emotionally unstable. We've had two people leave the band in the past because of things he's said, and we had to stop working with our old manager because he couldn't hold his tongue. If we do get bigger, this is going to be a huge problem.

After all of this, it seems we should just kick him out. But we can't do that, because he's our friend, and this band is everything he has. With him being as unstable as he is, if we kicked him out, I'm afraid he would become very self-destructive.

We thought this was just going to work itself out, because him and his girlfriend we're getting really close. We didn't think he'd want to leave her to go to California, and he told us he was concerned she wouldn't stay with him if he left. So we figured he'd just stay with her. Instead of doing that, though, he proposed to her and their now engaged. Now that he knows she'll stay with him for the few months he'll be gone, there's nothing stopping him.

I don't really know what to do. I can't imagine a scenario where we succeed with having him in the band. However, he's still my friend, and if we just let him go, I'm worried about what he'd do. Any advice?

I was in a band in high school and although we weren't successful (we were shocking!!) we really enjoyed playing our music and stuffing around etc

We had one guy in the band who played guitar, he wasn't bad just a complete a88hole! He told everyone what to do and wanted to become the lead singer even though his singing was really horrible (he actually said "my mom thinks I should sing because I have an awesome voice" and we all just looked at each other like wtf???)

Anyway we eventually just decided to sit down with him and be straight with him. We told him we thought the band was going off in a different direction to what we'd hoped and we didn't feel that his talents were needed. Needless to say he hated us after that. He even said that I was the instigator of the whole thing (I was the quietest, the youngest and the only female??). After that we weren't really friends. But the way we saw it was either we did what he wanted and hated our own band or just told him straight, which no one ever does or has done to him. Everyone has to go through it at some stage. It's not your fault that he doesn't realise he's not good??

If you never do it you may never reach your true potential? If you're happy to keep him with you and never get where you want to be, fine. But if you really want to make it in some way then just be honest?? I also look at it this way, wouldn't you hate to be the guy who everyone thinks is crap but never tells you?? He'll get over it.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Bands are a business. If you think of it any other way you won't succeed.

That said, singers are THE integral part of a band (and I say that as a guitarist who can't really sing well). Moving "the band" without the singer isn't really moving the band - it's disbanding it. So your whole scheme sounds doomed from the beginning.

Fire the flake whether you move or no - no one wants to listen to ♥♥♥♥♥♥ playing, and there are plenty of guitarists out there.

[mikethedrummer44]

Thanks for the replies. I need to talk with the other members and get there opinions before we do anything major. I'm confident we can find a singer before we move down, and if we can't, our lead guitarist sings well. I agree with treating the band as a business, which is why I'm trying to kill off this problem before it bites us in the ass down the road. Thanks again.