Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

marinik · 05-23-2010, 08:06 PM

Four evenings ago I called one of my close friends to tell him about my stressful day. He was in a cafe and I didn't want to intrude. I thought he would call me when he had a chance. But he hasn't.

I have always been there for him. Always, without missing a beat. In all ways possible. It is a very close friendship, we talk to each other almost every day. I know for a fact that he is not in a bad place, has been on leave for 2 weeks and has had fun.

I don't know why but I am really hurt. Not getting into details he is prone to spilling his guts and expecting my ear and shoulder, but sometimes not even asking how I was - not too often. Then I send him a SMSs thanking him for asking how I was... and he would call laughing embarrassed asking for forgiveness bla bla.

This time I just hurt and I want to cut him of. I wrote a mail that I didn't send.

It's just that I had enough!

Have any suggestions?

Tanja · 05-23-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

Not getting into details he is prone to spilling his guts and expecting my ear and shoulder, but sometimes not even asking how I was - not too often.

I guess he's used to this arrangement where he knows you're there for him and it seems he thinks you don't need so much emotional support. It seems to me it hurts you that he failed to recognize when you needed him to be there for you and you consider him a close friend...right?
Have you told him before that this bothers you?
Maybe the two of you simply expect different things in a friendship?

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

This time I just hurt and I want to cut him of. I wrote a mail that I didn't send.

It's just that I had enough!

Have any suggestions?

How about simply not contacting him first in a while? If he doesn't get in touch with you or doesn't wonder what's going on with you..well...that's it then.

marinik · 05-23-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanja

I guess he's used to this arrangement where he knows you're there for him and it seems he thinks you don't need so much emotional support. It seems to me it hurts you that he failed to recognize when you needed him to be there for you and you consider him a close friend...right?
Have you told him before that it bothers you?
Maybe you the two of you simply expect different things in a friendship?

Yes I have. In my style joking and teasing him about it. No, we don't expect different things. He is a very honorable man with a lot of integrity usually. I don't know what got into him. And this time don't really care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanja

How about simply not contacting him first in a while? If he doesn't get in touch with you or doesn't wonder what's going on with you..well...that's it then.

He calls me. I call him in very rare occasions 20:1. He is in meetings all day and has a jealous wife. LOL

If I don't answer he gets very nervous because of my health. Even panics.

He has been there for me with great advice and has been a good friend. Maybe it is just a midlife crisis! We are the same age.

Not everybody is like me

... This has been happening in the past 6-7 months. One way street.

MidasGirl · 05-23-2010, 08:54 PM

How about just an honest, direct, candid conversation with him about how you feel as a result of his unresponsiveness. I prefer people be direct with me rather than keep grudges and play the Passive aggressive card. For all you know, it could just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared with a very simple talk.

All the best.

marinik · 05-23-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

How about just an honest, direct, candid conversation with him about how you feel as a result of his unresponsiveness. I prefer people be direct with me rather than keep grudges and play the Passive aggressive card. For all you know, it could just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared with a very simple talk.

All the best.

Our whole friendship has been like this. So I am not playing the passive aggressive. Just had enough of this kind of one way street this friendship has been turning into. He has lots of problems and I understand. I do everything in my power to help. I am a very open person, specially with him. I love him and am hurt. Simple. I will tell him. But needed a second opinion

or a different approach. Didn't want to jump the gun.

ZHereford · 05-23-2010, 09:00 PM

Maybe he was just preoccupied and didn't realize the urgency of your call, especially since you're the one mostly there for him.

I would definitely let him know how you feel. He probably has no idea and will feel bad when he finds out.

marinik · 05-23-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Maybe he was just preoccupied and didn't realize the urgency of your call, especially since you're the one mostly there for him.

I would definitely let him know how you feel. He probably has no idea and will feel bad when he finds out.

Yes I suppose you are right.

But if I call you at 10 p.m. once in a blue moon and you think it's just me calling to see how you were! No way. If not that night I bet you would call me the next day to ask if I needed something. Or how I was... maybe it's just my ego.

Thanks all of you wonderful people.

marinik · 05-23-2010, 09:07 PM

YouTube - say-john mayer

ZHereford · 05-23-2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

....But if I call you at 10 p.m. once in a blue moon and you think it's just me calling to see how you were! No way. If not that night I bet you would call me the next day to ask if I needed something. Or how I was... maybe it's just my ego....

Unfortunately, I think it slipped his mind. I'll bet he sees you as a rock and not 'in need' the same way he his. I must admit this would be somewhat insensitive on his part, however, he needs to be set straight.

I don't think it's ego on your part, merely the desire to have reciprocation by a good friend - you certainly deserve it!

marinik · 05-23-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZHereford

Unfortunately, I think it slipped his mind. I'll bet he sees you as a rock and not 'in need' the same way he his. I must admit this would be somewhat insensitive on his part, however, he needs to be set straight.

I don't think it's ego on your part, merely the desire to have reciprocation by a good friend - you certainly deserve it!

Thanks! I don't want to be insensitive and selfish. But I do need my friend.

Tanja · 05-23-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

Yes I have. In my style joking and teasing him about it. (

This time be serious

Based on what you said about him he seems like a good friend (or up until 6 months ago).
If you had called him about anything else, for help etc I guess he would have responded differently and called you back?

But another talk seems the best option....

The Cloud · 05-23-2010, 11:10 PM

Have you questioned whether or not this is something that it would be good for you to receive from your friend? It seems to me that it is you that is creating this problem, since it does not seem to be bothering your friend much. I don't mean that it's your fault, so much as it is you that is the only one suffering.

Perhaps this is not something that your friend can provide you. Perhaps it's not even something that you should be provided with in general, if it causes you so much angst when you fail to receive it. You seem to have a lot of anxiety wrapped up around having somebody to vent on, and that is not an indicator of a healthy behavior.

Desert · 05-23-2010, 11:18 PM

"I am a very open person, specially with him. I love him and am hurt."

Has this love ever been anything else other than just a friendship?

marinik · 05-24-2010, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert

"I am a very open person, specially with him. I love him and am hurt."

Has this love ever been anything else other than just a friendship?

Yes. But a long time ago. It is not relevant any more. Nothing there but friendship. You just gave me an idea. Maybe he has fallen in love with somebody! So he is scattered all over the place....

well that would explain his behavior. Thanks Desert

marinik · 05-24-2010, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Have you questioned whether or not this is something that it would be good for you to receive from your friend? It seems to me that it is you that is creating this problem, since it does not seem to be bothering your friend much. I don't mean that it's your fault, so much as it is you that is the only one suffering.

Perhaps this is not something that your friend can provide you. Perhaps it's not even something that you should be provided with in general, if it causes you so much angst when you fail to receive it. You seem to have a lot of anxiety wrapped up around having somebody to vent on, and that is not an indicator of a healthy behavior.

Sorry but don't follow. Receive what?
I don't have any anxiety wrapped around having somebody to went to.
Just feel a bit hurt. Don't like to be taken for granted.

The Cloud · 05-24-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

Sorry but don't follow. Receive what?
I don't have any anxiety wrapped around having somebody to went to.
Just feel a bit hurt. Don't like to be taken for granted.

Anxiety is the wrong word, I just couldn't think of a better one. Your problem is that you are misusing the law of reciprocity. How it's supposed to work is that you give without expectation, and get in return.

Obviously you have expectations, so it is dishonest to use reciprocity in this situation. Reciprocity is not supposed to be a means of getting what you want out of someone, or else you'll cut them out of your life. I know you won't actually do that, but the fact that you feel like doing as much means that you are using reciprocity in this way. In this situation, your pain from not receiving as expected is not an indication that you deserve what you never actually asked for.

My suggestion would be to stop using reciprocity altogether. I don't mean to avoid it, but don't enslave yourself to the idea that you have to be there for your friend at every opportunity just so you can feel like you deserve the same. Just because you are giving more than you are expecting to receive does not mean that you deserve what you expect, especially not if you've [unconsciously] gone out of your way to avoid making your intentions explicit.

So either stop expecting what you expect, or stop using oblique methods to get what you expect. Be obvious and honest. When you stop setting yourself up to be hurt, you'll stop hurting.

Desert · 05-24-2010, 07:09 AM

"Yes. But a long time ago. It is not relevant any more. Nothing there but friendship."

If I were actually sitting across from you then your eyes would tell me if the scent of bygone flowers still lingered. Alas, it is only text. So with text I reply that yes, maybe the scent has been scattered.

Desert

mindset · 05-24-2010, 09:27 AM

Hi, I'm not being expert or anything. I only want to say what I think...
Well, as you said that in the past you had something romantic going on and that his wife is the jealous type. What if it has something to do with avoiding a misunderstanding with his wife that's why he doesn't seem to reciprocate the same concern you're giving him. This is just a theory... still, communication with him would be much more appropriate. You should let him open up on what the deal is, even if it means that those reasons might hurt you. Honesty will definitely set both of you free and you can finally decide from there. I hope I made sense.

elucidate · 05-24-2010, 10:31 AM

I think this is good insight actually, and it is relevant to me as well, as I also tend to be 'the rock' and get disappointed when friends aren't able to reciprocate. Some people just aren't as good listeners as others, and you can't really expect them to be just because you are.

This is something I need to learn to detach from as well...it would be nice if they would reciprocate and be there for me the way I feel they 'should' be as a friend, but maybe they just aren't willing to be, or able to be at that time. There is no rule saying they HAVE to be just like me in the way I give.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Anxiety is the wrong word, I just couldn't think of a better one. Your problem is that you are misusing the law of reciprocity. How it's supposed to work is that you give without expectation, and get in return.

Obviously you have expectations, so it is dishonest to use reciprocity in this situation. Reciprocity is not supposed to be a means of getting what you want out of someone, or else you'll cut them out of your life. I know you won't actually do that, but the fact that you feel like doing as much means that you are using reciprocity in this way. In this situation, your pain from not receiving as expected is not an indication that you deserve what you never actually asked for.

My suggestion would be to stop using reciprocity altogether. I don't mean to avoid it, but don't enslave yourself to the idea that you have to be there for your friend at every opportunity just so you can feel like you deserve the same. Just because you are giving more than you are expecting to receive does not mean that you deserve what you expect, especially not if you've [unconsciously] gone out of your way to avoid making your intentions explicit.

So either stop expecting what you expect, or stop using oblique methods to get what you expect. Be obvious and honest. When you stop setting yourself up to be hurt, you'll stop hurting.

marinik · 05-24-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert

"Yes. But a long time ago. It is not relevant any more. Nothing there but friendship."

If I were actually sitting across from you then your eyes would tell me if the scent of bygone flowers still lingered. Alas, it is only text. So with text I reply that yes, maybe the scent has been scattered.

Desert

Quote:

He calls me. I call him in very rare occasions 20:1. He is in meetings all day and has a jealous wife. LOL If I don't answer he gets very nervous because of my health. Even panics.

He has a wife that is 10 years his/our junior, she is jealous on every women in his life. I don't have the exclusivity on that.

As far as the scent of bygone flowers... I am the one that ended it. So aftere analyzing everything it's just a question of reciprocity.

James81 · 05-24-2010, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

He has a wife that is 10 years his/our junior, she is jealous on every women in his life.

This is what I was thinking when I was reading this thread.

More than likely, this is probably the main issue here. He probably gets flack for talking to you. Especially if she knows you had feelings for each other a long time ago.

marinik · 05-24-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James81

This is what I was thinking when I was reading this thread.

More than likely, this is probably the main issue here. He probably gets flack for talking to you. Especially if she knows you had feelings for each other a long time ago.

No James, it is not the issue. He is a executive like I am. So we talk to eachother during the day and at night when he is out. And she does not know anything about our relationship. I suppose it would really hurt her to know. He was madly in love with me and I had serious feelings for him. But it's in the past. We have become the best of friends. We are both in the same field of work and at the same level so nobody understands the work and the stress like we understand eachothers. And we are very similar so we can talk about everything and never judge the other.

ZHereford · 05-24-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinik

.... So aftere analyzing everything it's just a question of reciprocity.

All relationships are of a give and take nature. That's what having a relationship is about. It is totally reasonable for you to have the expectation for a friend to be there for you whenever possible - especially when you may really need them. That's what friendship is!

If in any relationship one person does a disproportionate amount of giving or taking then it is unbalanced and will ultimately end.

marinik · 05-24-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZHereford

If in any relationship one person does a disproportionate amount of giving or taking then it is unbalanced and will ultimately end.

Yes, you are right unfortunately. Some come to an end and some new are born.Its like a cycle of life. Sad but true. Thank you.

The Cloud · 05-25-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elucidate

I think this is good insight actually, and it is relevant to me as well, as I also tend to be 'the rock' and get disappointed when friends aren't able to reciprocate. Some people just aren't as good listeners as others, and you can't really expect them to be just because you are.

This is something I need to learn to detach from as well...it would be nice if they would reciprocate and be there for me the way I feel they 'should' be as a friend, but maybe they just aren't willing to be, or able to be at that time. There is no rule saying they HAVE to be just like me in the way I give.

Wow, Blossom agrees with me! I must be doing something right

.

C33 · 05-25-2010, 09:27 PM

It's not unreasonable to ask for a friend to be there for you, when you have been there for him.

You can't expect someone to reciprocate the exact way you would choose:but you can at least expect some action that shows support. Some people are not great listeners, but they will find an activity to share that will uplift the other person, or suggest a book...in small ways they will show they care.

In your case, it looks like the guy didn't even call back on that night, which is not very courteous. That's odd...Or maybe he is having an extra-marital affair -he keeps hush hush from you and his wife- and you called at a bad time.

Since you work together and have a great intellectual connection, it would probably be ackward to end the friendship.How upfront can you be with your feelings? Could you talk to him frankly about the issue?

marinik · 05-26-2010, 05:21 AM

Update.

He calls me 5 days later. Goes on and on about his problems at work. Hears my tone after about 5 minuter of rambling and asks me if I am mad at him. So I say yes, very calmly explain. His response was:"You are absolutely right. Sorry, I am so sorry M for being so self absorbed."

So there you are.

As far as the reciprocating in friendship I think it is natural. I do not measure how much I give and then ask for the same back. I suppose it's just having the people to be there for you when you need them.

elucidate · 05-26-2010, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Wow, Blossom agrees with me! I must be doing something right

.

Come on...I only disagreed with you once.

05-23-2010, 08:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
marinik Legendary Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Where Living and Loving and Laughing are written into the Constitution Posts: 14,240	Friendship where did it go? Four evenings ago I called one of my close friends to tell him about my stressful day. He was in a cafe and I didn't want to intrude. I thought he would call me when he had a chance. But he hasn't. I have always been there for him. Always, without missing a beat. In all ways possible. It is a very close friendship, we talk to each other almost every day. I know for a fact that he is not in a bad place, has been on leave for 2 weeks and has had fun. I don't know why but I am really hurt. Not getting into details he is prone to spilling his guts and expecting my ear and shoulder, but sometimes not even asking how I was - not too often. Then I send him a SMSs thanking him for asking how I was... and he would call laughing embarrassed asking for forgiveness bla bla. This time I just hurt and I want to cut him of. I wrote a mail that I didn't send. It's just that I had enough! Have any suggestions?

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05-23-2010, 08:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
MidasGirl Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Off this forum from 10/27/10 to 10/27/11. Yay me! Posts: 2,944	How about just an honest, direct, candid conversation with him about how you feel as a result of his unresponsiveness. I prefer people be direct with me rather than keep grudges and play the Passive aggressive card. For all you know, it could just be a misunderstanding that can be cleared with a very simple talk. All the best.

05-23-2010, 09:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
ZHereford Family Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,090	Maybe he was just preoccupied and didn't realize the urgency of your call, especially since you're the one mostly there for him. I would definitely let him know how you feel. He probably has no idea and will feel bad when he finds out.

05-23-2010, 09:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
marinik Legendary Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Where Living and Loving and Laughing are written into the Constitution Posts: 14,240	YouTube - say-john mayer

05-23-2010, 11:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
The Cloud Family Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,203	Have you questioned whether or not this is something that it would be good for you to receive from your friend? It seems to me that it is you that is creating this problem, since it does not seem to be bothering your friend much. I don't mean that it's your fault, so much as it is you that is the only one suffering. Perhaps this is not something that your friend can provide you. Perhaps it's not even something that you should be provided with in general, if it causes you so much angst when you fail to receive it. You seem to have a lot of anxiety wrapped up around having somebody to vent on, and that is not an indicator of a healthy behavior.

05-23-2010, 11:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Desert Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: LV Posts: 243	"I am a very open person, specially with him. I love him and am hurt." Has this love ever been anything else other than just a friendship?

05-24-2010, 07:09 AM	#17 (permalink)
Desert Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: LV Posts: 243	"Yes. But a long time ago. It is not relevant any more. Nothing there but friendship." If I were actually sitting across from you then your eyes would tell me if the scent of bygone flowers still lingered. Alas, it is only text. So with text I reply that yes, maybe the scent has been scattered. Desert

05-24-2010, 09:27 AM	#18 (permalink)
mindset Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 939	Hi, I'm not being expert or anything. I only want to say what I think... Well, as you said that in the past you had something romantic going on and that his wife is the jealous type. What if it has something to do with avoiding a misunderstanding with his wife that's why he doesn't seem to reciprocate the same concern you're giving him. This is just a theory... still, communication with him would be much more appropriate. You should let him open up on what the deal is, even if it means that those reasons might hurt you. Honesty will definitely set both of you free and you can finally decide from there. I hope I made sense.

05-25-2010, 09:27 PM	#26 (permalink)
C33 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 623	It's not unreasonable to ask for a friend to be there for you, when you have been there for him. You can't expect someone to reciprocate the exact way you would choose:but you can at least expect some action that shows support. Some people are not great listeners, but they will find an activity to share that will uplift the other person, or suggest a book...in small ways they will show they care. In your case, it looks like the guy didn't even call back on that night, which is not very courteous. That's odd...Or maybe he is having an extra-marital affair -he keeps hush hush from you and his wife- and you called at a bad time. Since you work together and have a great intellectual connection, it would probably be ackward to end the friendship.How upfront can you be with your feelings? Could you talk to him frankly about the issue?

05-26-2010, 05:21 AM	#27 (permalink)
marinik Legendary Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Where Living and Loving and Laughing are written into the Constitution Posts: 14,240	Update. He calls me 5 days later. Goes on and on about his problems at work. Hears my tone after about 5 minuter of rambling and asks me if I am mad at him. So I say yes, very calmly explain. His response was:"You are absolutely right. Sorry, I am so sorry M for being so self absorbed." So there you are. As far as the reciprocating in friendship I think it is natural. I do not measure how much I give and then ask for the same back. I suppose it's just having the people to be there for you when you need them.

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