"High Maintenance": What exactly does it mean?

[MidasGirl]

I've never been clear what exactly people mean when they call a woman (or man for that matter) "high maintenance".

What exactly is a high maintenance person? And is it a bad thing to be high maintenance?

This isn't about me, just a social dynamic I'm trying to get clear on. For example, I saw Simon Cowell (Gawd am I attracted to that guy!!) interviewed by Oprah the other day, and he was talking about his current new girlfriend and what not. And Oprah asked him if she is "high maintenance", but it occurred to me she wasn't implying anything to do with physical looks or way of being. That's what I always thought high maintenance meant --the physical aspects of things.

Is high maintenance (whatever it is) attractive or not? Does it matter?

[Solipsist]

Just my own observation, MG, but I think the term "high maintenance" refers, really, to the relationship itself.

Regardless of gender, if it takes alot of work to stay together with another, that other person is considered high maintenance. It also applies to those in the relationship that are needy in some way. For example, a woman who experiences great emotional swings, or a man who's addicted to sex would be considered high maintenance.

In my experience, it's been rather a derogatory term, however, those who use it within the context of their relationship seem to do so hypocritically, as they deem the other person high maintenance, when it is they who go to the efforts to provide the maintenance to begin with. Apparently, the relationship is important enough for them to endure a high-maintenance person.

[Williamjw]

I would sday from my observations, that its slightly different from that.

I think it relates to the person in particular rather than the relationship, and if someone takes alot of work, time and effort due to different contributing factors. Such as the example you gave Solipsist.

I myself was described as high mantainace by my ex quite often, and i think it was due to the fact that i can be very hard work to do deal at times, and it takes alot of enery. For example i enjoy being looked after which contributes to the fact that i'm high mantanance.

[Angela]

I think it's when one person uses a perspective that they are responsible for satisfying or fulfilling the preferences of the other, or that the other is responsible for satisfying or fulfilling their own.

So Simon was being asked, "Does this woman expect and take the attitude that you owe it to her to satisfy her every need, and does it cost you something if you fail to?"

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Angela

So Simon was being asked, "Does this woman expect and take the attitude that you owe it to her to satisfy her every need, and does it cost you something if you fail to?"

So then a person with no expectations would be considered low maintenance?

I'm trying to understand how "low maintenance" is a good thing? Because what I hear is high maintenance used in a derogatory way, mostly in reference to women, just like solipsist stated.

And what is the difference between expectations and standards? Because we (as in general we) seem to value high standards as a "good" thing to have.

I used to have a friend way back who used to dabble in prostitution (yeah I've had all kinds of friends, altho she also had a great day job) but I remember she used to tell me that "a woman with no expectations is never disappointed". I was way younger than her. So I had no clue what she really meant. But now I look back and think, is that what life is about really? Living in fear of being disappointed?

[Brutha]

And what is the difference between expectations and standards? Because we (as in general we) seem to value high standards as a "good" thing to have.

Standards are generally "I don't accept behavior X" while expectations would here be rather "You have to do behavior X".

[MidasGirl]

Interesting distinction there brutha. But does an expectation have to have a "you have to..." connotation? What about simply, "it would be great if you could...", "it would add even more joy to my already glorious life if my partner......". Are those not expectations? Or are they merely preferences? Because I feel like preferences are just energetically a weak form of expectations.

For example, I remember our banned Gigij saying she expects to have an orgasm every time she has sex. I don't. I'll bet she has an orgasm every time she has sex though, while I'm quite happy with the intimacy of the sex act, with or without the orgasm.

LOA teachers tell us to "expect" good things, as a way of magnetically attracting them to us.

So how then are expectations a derogatory thing? Or is it only when they are expectations that put too much pressure on the other person?

And does that not tell us that "high maintenance" is in the eye of the beholder?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Interesting distinction there brutha. But does an expectation have to have a "you have to..." connotation? What about simply, "it would be great if you could...", "it would add even more joy to my already glorious life if my partner......". Are those not expectations? Or are they merely preferences? Because I feel like preferences are just energetically a weak form of expectations.

For example, I remember our banned Gigij saying she expects to have an orgasm every time she has sex. I don't. I'll bet she has an orgasm every time she has sex though, while I'm quite happy with the intimacy of the sex act, with or without the orgasm.

LOA teachers tell us to "expect" good things, as a way of magnetically attracting them to us.

So how then are expectations a derogatory thing? Or is it only when they are expectations that put too much pressure on the other person?

And does that not tell us that "high maintenance" is in the eye of the beholder?

The difference is the entitlement of believing that a particular person (or even the the universe in general) must fulfill the expectation/preference/desire, as if that person owes it to you, and if (s)he fails to fulfill it, that means that there is something wrong here -- and compensation is demanded or punishment meted out.

The difference is: are you feeling pure desire, the childlike joyful anticipation of your heart's desire (acceptance), or are you feeling that you won't be happy, satisfied, and fulfilled unless this particular desire is provided to you (resistance)?

[Angelique]

Based on what I've seen or witnessed, I'll attempt to define the two in the simplest way I understand.

High Maintenance: Person A's expectations/standards exceed Person B's willingness to put forth the effort to meet those expectations or standards. (Whether or not B puts forth that effort is irrelevant to the definition.)

Low Maintenance: This one is a little more complicated.

I think this can mean either Person A or B has few expectations/standards so it's harder to disappoint this person. - I think this stems mainly from ignorance or low self worth.

I also think it can mean Person A or B might have certain expectations or standards, but is willing to work through any sort of blocks through acceptance. - Based on my experience, this produces the best results.

Generally, I think it's natural to have at least some degree of expectations but standards, for the most part, are loosely put together (beyond the physical, that is).
There's a difference between outlining a certain criteria that you are willing to accept in partner (standards) and having attachments as to the outcome of the events in the relationship (expectations). You might not be willing to enter into a long distance relationship (standard). Or you might have a certain time frame in your head as to when it is appropriate to have sex (expectation).

[rei]

Heh, different from my usual tone, but when I have heard the term, "High-Maintenance" it's usually about the woman - and it seems to translate as, "more than I really feel like doing/want to do to get sex from that person."

It seems to basically be how much it takes for that person to be satisfied and content with their partner, based on what they actually communicate wanting. And the levels for this seem to vary - one guy would find a girl high-maintenance because she wants to hear from him when they are apart for more than a day or two.

Another guy would be cool with that or even enjoy it, but if she wanted that and she wanted him to cook meals for her and she wanted flowers every time he saw her and she always had "issues" she wanted him to "discuss" with her or wanted him to enjoy seeing the ballet or wanted him to express his thoughts and feelings all the time (if he didn't do so already) - he might consider that high-maintenance.

It seems to relate to a gap between what you naturally want to do for your partner or the relationship and what your partner wants you to do for them or the relationship.

[MidasGirl]

Do you see men that are more emotionally intelligent/available as less likely to complain about a woman being high maintenance?

It also seems to me that this high maintenance thingie seems to be used especially to apply to the stereotypically pretty girl.

For example, going back to Cowell again (cuz I've got a crush on him) he said his girl isn't HM. But he strikes me as a very emotionally intelligent person.

I guess for me I'm not even talking about drama queens (a thing I consider quite unattractive in both men and women) but an emotionally healthy individual.

[Dharma]

high maintenance - imagine a sailboat with a fixed sail.... The boat will only move forward when the wind comes from one direction. There may be winds coming from other directions but the sailor has but one fixed way of moving.

low maintenance - a sailboat with a movable sail is able to move forward when the wind comes from behind, just as the fixed sail, but can also use wind from virtually any direction to keep moving by moving the sail and tacking the boat. Tacking from one side to the other is not the most efficient way to travel, but the flexibility of moving the sail allows one to keep moving no matter where the wind blows you.

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Do you see men that are more emotionally intelligent/available as less likely to complain about a woman being high maintenance?

Emotionally intelligent/available men won't be attracted to a HM girl, IMO.

on edit: They can still point out other HM women I'm sure. It's not that they won't see it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Do you see men that are more emotionally intelligent/available as less likely to complain about a woman being high maintenance?

Absolutely -- I would see complaining that a woman (or man) is high maintenance as a sign of significantly lower intelligence.

And - complaining that someone is high maintenance, and making an evaluation that someone is using a perspective that you are responsible for satisfying and fulfilling their needs, desires, or preferences, are two entirely different things.

It also seems to me that this high maintenance thingie seems to be used especially to apply to the stereotypically pretty girl.

I think it may be easier in many cases for a particularly attractive girl to rely on others to fulfill her needs and desires, and maybe to begin to believe that she's entitled and owed, just because she may have been showered with favor since she was in her unconscious stage (pre-age 7). The Princess Syndrome. Boys get it, too. And being physically attractive isn't the only way to develop PS -- if you attracted parents and others who fawned over you during your unconscious stage, that's another good way.

[Angela]

Dharma, I love your sailboat metaphor and I love your new avatar!

[Dharma]

Originally Posted by Angela

Dharma, I love your sailboat metaphor and I love your new avatar!

Thanks! Your avatar makes me purrrrrr. <3

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Do you see men that are more emotionally intelligent/available as less likely to complain about a woman being high maintenance?

It also seems to me that this high maintenance thingie seems to be used especially to apply to the stereotypically pretty girl.

For example, going back to Cowell again (cuz I've got a crush on him) he said his girl isn't HM. But he strikes me as a very emotionally intelligent person.

I guess for me I'm not even talking about drama queens (a thing I consider quite unattractive in both men and women) but an emotionally healthy individual.

Yes, I would say someone who is more emotionally intelligent and available is less likely to shut down in the realm of how much they naturally want to give in a relationship. If they are less available emotionally then they might have a pattern of wanting the relationship to be for themselves, not so much a mutual partnership.

But then I tend to link emotional unavailability with being self-focused in a relationship the majority of the time, and I'm not actually sure it works out that way.

And I'd also agree this label seems often applied to the stereotypical pretty girl. To me that can be because she is used to getting what she wants from others, but then on the other hand in some cases pretty girls seem to not get the label - another idea that makes it seem to be about the sex, as a man seems more interested in doing more when he finds the girl really attractive to him.

I haven't really heard this label applied to men. I've heard men labeled needy, desperate, things like that... interesting, though, I wonder if that speaks to social conditioning where it's almost expected to "take care of" the female (in some way, not necessarily the stereotypical way). Do you see what I mean?

Dharma, I also enjoyed your analogy

[marinik]

Wouldn't really like to be defined as any kind of maintenance! I don't think mature people need maintenance. They need a life partner a lover, a spouse, a parent to bring up children together.... what ever but not a person I need to maintain. Or anybody to maintain me. I can do that by myself. Easy.

[Elrond]

Examples:

- Wants too much sex (too much for the other partner to not get 'headaches')
- Nag hag

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Examples:

- Wants too much sex (too much for the other partner to not get 'headaches')
- Nag hag

One person's "too much" is another's "just right" or even "not enough". Similarly, one person's "nag" is another's "support" or "encouragement."

So these don't mean anything about the other person, they only mean something about you (e.g., the person complaining).

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Angela

One person's "too much" is another's "just right" or even "not enough". Similarly, one person's "nag" is another's "support" or "encouragement."

I never said that it wasn't relative. In fact, my first example said that it depends on the 'virility' of the other partner. I.e. it's relative.

So these don't mean anything about the other person, they only mean something about you (e.g., the person complaining).

It can mean something about both parties. And if you wanna use that definition, than it doesn't say something about the person complaining because for someone else that complaining could be 'constructive criticism' or 'being honest and straightforward'. Subjectivity - it goes both ways.

[SnerpGoodWord]

I think the terms as generally used applies only to women (and possibly gay guys - idk) and implies a certain type of impractical and inconsiderate behavior towards a partner.

Like when you agree to meet a woman at her house at 7:00 for a date, and she spends the next hour trying on clothes and complaining against copious evidence that she has nothing to wear, only to ask you at 8:00 if these jeans make her butt look fat. No honey, you butt looked fat before you put the jeans on. The jeans make it blue

Stereotypical, sure.

Or one that a friend of mine's wife pulled - they were shopping for a new car for her, and had agreed on a small luxury import sedan, something like a BMW 325. This was a bit of a financial stretch for them. The one day she comes home and informs him she has found THE perfect car for her. It was some oddball European marquee (I want to say maybe Alfa Romeo?), cost $15k more than what they had in mind, and would of course be impossible to repair in the States. Why did she want this eurotrash money pit? So she would have a different looking car than all her friends who had 325s.

Both literally and figuratively high maintenance...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Elrond

I never said that it wasn't relative. In fact, my first example said that it depends on the 'virility' of the other partner. I.e. it's relative.

Exactly. The high-maintenance-ness of that person is relative and completely subjective to the person to whom the "too much" is according to. It doesn't mean anything at all about the person who is thought to be "too much."

And if you wanna use that definition, than it doesn't say something about the person complaining because for someone else that complaining could be 'constructive criticism' or 'being honest and straightforward'. Subjectivity - it goes both ways.

You're right -- it is only my subjective evaluation that determines what I think is complaining and what I think is constructive criticism or being honest and straight forward.

In my evaluation, if a person is resisting someone or something, thinking they or it should be other than what it is, then they're complaining. If they're accepting that someone or something, and being at cause in the matter of having it work well in or out of their lives, then they're evaluating.

The second way is an intelligent way and the first is not, in my evaluation. And I don't feel that acting in an unintelligent way is wrong or bad or that one shouldn't act unintelligently.

There's no two ways about subjectivity. If you believe something should change, or that they or it should be other than what they are -- that it's too this or not that enough, that's your problem, not theirs or its.

[The Unconquered]

In my experience, high maintenance means: "You aren't progressing according to my schedule using my criteria, and I'm going to try to run your life until you do." Then they wonder why this approach doesn't work.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I've never been clear what exactly people mean when they call a woman (or man for that matter) "high maintenance".

What exactly is a high maintenance person? And is it a bad thing to be high maintenance?

This isn't about me, just a social dynamic I'm trying to get clear on. For example, I saw Simon Cowell (Gawd am I attracted to that guy!!) interviewed by Oprah the other day, and he was talking about his current new girlfriend and what not. And Oprah asked him if she is "high maintenance", but it occurred to me she wasn't implying anything to do with physical looks or way of being. That's what I always thought high maintenance meant --the physical aspects of things.

Is high maintenance (whatever it is) attractive or not? Does it matter?

I've heard this from guys, in reference to girlfriends.

My understanding of high maintenance is that the girl goes a little wonky if she doesn't get constant attention from the guy. ie, if the guy doesn't call for a few days, the girl starts thinking he doesn't like her - or is cheating on her - or is "leading her on". It takes constant "maintenance" - in the form of attention - to keep the girl from thinking those things. She's high-maintenance.

[danas]

I'm probably "High Maintenance".
I got in the cab the other day for a pretty long ride- There was hardly any leg room in the back seat- so I told the driver, then the air conditioning was too high and I was freezing, so I asked him to turn it off. Then the driver started smoking and I asked him several times to stop b/c the smoke was bothering me (he didnt stop)
OK- I was pretty tired, but Im sure this taxi driver thought I was extremely high maintenance LOL.
When I go to a restaurant- I usually have special requests, (this salad but without the cheese) When I sleep in a hotel I always ask for the quietest room, and I need dark blinds so no light can come in...
Some people are easier. Nothing bothers them. They can eat anything, sleep in any condition etc... Thats low maintenance.
I assume being low maintenance is more attractive to most people.

[MidasGirl]

Danas, if that is high maintenance, then so am I

I think what you describe is simply asserting your preferences. I'm assuming a high maintenance person would cause a big scene if those requests weren't met. I doubt you'd do that?

But I can't imagine the cab driver not honoring a customer's request like that.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I've heard this from guys, in reference to girlfriends.

My understanding of high maintenance is that the girl goes a little wonky if she doesn't get constant attention from the guy. ie, if the guy doesn't call for a few days, the girl starts thinking he doesn't like her - or is cheating on her - or is "leading her on". It takes constant "maintenance" - in the form of attention - to keep the girl from thinking those things. She's high-maintenance.

I really got it from reading this. Seems to me you're describing what I label a chronic drama queen. People that aren't entertained unless they are generating negative drama/attention around them. I know that most everyone will (most times unconsciously) create negative drama though.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Dharma

Emotionally intelligent/available men won't be attracted to a HM girl, IMO.

on edit: They can still point out other HM women I'm sure. It's not that they won't see it.

Agreed!

[James81]

Come on peeps. LOL

High maintenance is a person with expensive tastes. That about covers it.