Girl problems are pathetic, but they are still here

[Kneegrow]

That's kind of how I feel right now.

Recently I got rejected by this girl at uni (just asked her out for a coffee, y'know?). We don't really know each other, not even sure if she knows my name, but I was and am so obsessed with her, and it's not willingly. After she rejected me, I tried being positive about it, mainly because I overcame this extreme anxiety I felt, and I also had the feeling that I could approach any girl now.

Lost that feeling the next day (as I suspected), but that wasn't the worst thing that happened. I started thinking about the rejection situation and how she was rather... cold towards me, as well as noticing her trying to avoid me the next time I saw her. That got me pretty depressed. I guess that's what you get when you're as needy and insecure as me. Another reason why it was so hard for me was because I thought she wouldn't be like that, because I got the impression she was some shy and... insecure girl. Not too shy, but shyer than most. Which she probably is, but I guess I'm just lower on the social value scale than her.

I forgot to mention my (probably only) friend. He's quite different from me when it comes to this stuff. She and her friend even like him. I get so jealous of him, and I realise this isn't good at all. But I just can't accept the fact that I don't have anything to offer to those girls, hell I even made this chick I was attracted to dislike me (or whatever reason it is she intentionally 'ignores' me). On the other hand, he's liked, and surprise surprise, he doesn't give a **** about them for the most part.

I thought weed would help me long term with self acceptance, but it didn't. I ran into those girls today again (after a week) and I was going insane about how I still care so much that I can't even say hi to them without feeling awkward. At classes I feel so conscious about her, and I don't want this. I want to be free of this bs. And weed is the best thing that can provide me with that. Free of the ego. I do everything cause of the ego. That's why I don't have anything I truly like or can enjoy. I try to see the nice things in life, enjoy the complexity of it, or anything. But it all ends up being about me and trying to look good in the eye of other people.

I'm so egocentric it's starting to finally drive me insane. I tried alot of things. The best advice is probably non resistance. I did that. I tried endulging the ego, but in the long run it doesn't work.

I also know the best way to forget about that girl is approach others, but lately I just didn't have the motivation to overcome the anxiety block. And I don't have a group of friends I go out with, so I don't get any places better than uni to do this at. I'm also aware that this is only part of a bigger problem.

I could write alot more, but I guess the question I have is, how do I accept myself, and how do I stop caring about the opinions of these girls and any other person I know. How do I become truly interested in the people I interact with, no matter their shallowness (at least, I perceive them this way). Can I become truly curious in life, find enjoyment in any thing I could explore in life just for the sake of it and not to get approval from society or people ? How do I do this while _not high_ ?

I wrote threads similar to this before, and it helps to vent out even if I don't get any useful advice... hopefully one day, if I don't kill myself, I'll find myself and be able to help others who are in a similar situation. Peace.

P.S.
Can a mod edit the typo in the title ? :P

[James81]

Consider the possibility that at some point in your life someone did something to you that you didn't like, and in that moment you made a decision about yourself that you were unworthy of happiness.

Consider the possibility that all those thoughts about yourself are constructs of your own mind and they are your own creations.

Consider the possibility that other people are too busy thinking about THEIR self image to have the same thoughts about YOU. (that is, you are the only one thinking this stuff about yourself--nobody else is)

Consider the possibility that these negative feelings and those self destructive thoughts are becoming a self fullfilling prophecy in your life and that your obsession with YOURSELF (which is what an obsession for another really is) is the very thing that alienates you from others.

Consider the possibility that you can, at any moment, make a decision to change. And that that change will come through an honest, conscious assessment of yourself and who you really are (without the BS) and a conscious decision to change the beliefs you have about yourself. Change one belief, you'll change your entire world.

After considering all that stuff, sit down and take an honest assessment of yourself. Write it down. What are the things I don't like about my life? What are the things I DO like about my life? Where do I want to take my life? Who am I underneath the facade that I put on to the world?

Write about it. Get it out of you. And don't hold back on it.

You are repressing emotions when you should be expressing them. And your repression of your emotions is causing damage to your self image because everytime you repress an emotion you are telling yourself that the natural flow of what you feel is invalid and thus you are not worthy to express yourself wholly. And each time you hold back on that expression, you create tension within yourself and make it harder the next time to express yourself.

So, began a path of expressing whatever emotion you feel. If you need an outlet, consider something that makes you active...do something that can let you really work yourself out. Get a punching bag, start an exercise regime, etc.

[Eduard E]

OK. Time to ask yourself some questions: what are your strengths? What do you have to offer? What makes you sexy? I see being attractive part as leveraging on your strengths, part as improving yourself to have more strengths to leverage on. But it all starts with understanding where you are .

[marinik]

So why do we girls seam shallow and superficial? Because one girls does not like you? So what! I bet you don't even acknowledge the fact some poor girl that adores you exists! It is a merry-go-around for a while until everybody "gets" the rules of the game.

Live with it! Don't sulk!

[bweston]

I'm with James, find the emotions that are truly eating a way at you and let them out. Here are some ways you can do that:

- EFT. You can check out emofree.com to get more info on it but basically you tap on your meridian points to release the certain negative emotions. Weird? Yes. Effective? That too.

- Find someone you trust and talk out everything that is bothering you. Really try to just release everything out.

As for self-acceptance. That is mostly a practice of changing your focus to being grateful and loving of yourself. This can be done with something as simple as, at the end of everyday, write down 5 things that you did well or enjoyed.

Another thing you might want to look into is meditation. This made a huge difference in my life. Learn to be able to sit with yourself for 20 minutes, in your head. After some practice, you'll be able to see all of the thoughts, especially negative ones, in your head as just jibberish.

As for girls, you can try an experiment. For one day, go up to at least 5 girls and ask them for their phone numbers. The goal for this isn't to really get their numbers or count your success but just get over the fear of asking. You can use this script: "Hi, this is going to sound weird but if I don't ask you now, I'll be kicking myself for the rest of the day. I'm running to meet a friend [as in, you're not a creep of sorts] right now, but I think you're really cute. Could I have your number? I promise I'm not a creep! If you're not interested, you can give me a fake."

I hope this helps and good luck!

[inri]

It's important to remind yourself when feeling rejected due to a scenario like the one you describe, that the girl really does not 'know' you, therefore, she has not really rejected you, merely the person she 'believes' you to be. I know when I was younger, I often turned down guys simply because I did not know them well enough..if this girl is shy, It's possible that the whole thing just makes her feel nervous.....I'm old enough now to know too, that I likely turned down some great guys on a faulty first impression!

All this being said, you must realize that if you do not like yourself, others will not be getting a great vibe from you. Self confidence is an extremely appealing trait and one that can overcome a myriad of less attractive qualities. I've had the experience of havaing very plain, average looking men becoming incredibly attractive as I got to know them as a person.

What is it you feel you're missing as a person. What makes you feel less than what you'd like to feel like? Are you kind to others? Do you honor your word? Do you offer assistance when others need it? Acting in a manner that we can feel proud about often leads to great leaps in self confidence.

As has been suggested in prior posts, make some lists. What do you admire about others who you believe to be great people? Is it their character? things they do? What character traits do they have?
Define the person you WANT to become and then go ahead and become that person! Each time you accomplish something on your list, congratulate yourself & get into the habit of self nurturing. Everytime you tell yourself you're NOT something you want to be or berate yourself for something you did, you reinforce your negative and lowly opinion of yourself.

It all starts with you. Try treating yourself with the love, kindness and respect that you'd give to another and watch yourself grow! With practice this positive nurturing manner of communication with self will become a habit.

Faye

[Brutha]

If she's shy she might have found it awkward to be approached by yourself and therefore did easiest thing to end the awkwardness by rejecting yourself. Shy people do everything they can to escape feeling awkward.

If you get rejected by a girl and actually accept their rejection than the chances that the girl will ignore you are less.
She doesn't want to think about the fact that she rejected you when she sees you and therefore doesn't want to interact with you.
From her perspective you might misunderstand something she does as her being attracted and that would but her is in an awkward position.

Don't go around judging girls as low and high social value. If you want to approach a girl just do so and be fine with whatever answer you get.
You can even say thank you for your time.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Somehow you need to get some social skills - I don't mean this as an insult, but you're not going to have success on this kind of romantic attempt until you do. For example, it doesn't make sense to ask someone out (even to coffee) without having exchanged names. That's more or less social skill #1 - if you ask her out without knowing her name, it comes off as creepy stalker behavior, which is a big turnoff.

Think is, I'm not sure how you learn this. I'm pretty sure my parents taught it to me at a young age, so if you're at university you missed a lesson or two along the way. That's OK - you can still learn, you just have to work at it. I would suggest a mentor - perhaps your friend who is better with the ladies.

[inri]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

Somehow you need to get some social skills - I don't mean this as an insult, but you're not going to have success on this kind of romantic attempt until you do. For example, it doesn't make sense to ask someone out (even to coffee) without having exchanged names. That's more or less social skill #1 - if you ask her out without knowing her name, it comes off as creepy stalker behavior, which is a big turnoff.

Think is, I'm not sure how you learn this. I'm pretty sure my parents taught it to me at a young age, so if you're at university you missed a lesson or two along the way. That's OK - you can still learn, you just have to work at it. I would suggest a mentor - perhaps your friend who is better with the ladies.

This is very true. I can only imagine that if some guy I did not know came up and asked me out back in college I would have been kind of freaked out. I find it interesting that someone with very low self esteem & who is shy would be capable of actually doing this!....perhaps your esteem is not as low as you believe because I know some really outgoing people who would have a difficult time doing this...then again, as has been said, perhaps there is a need to become educated about acceptable social mores and behaviors. The development of good social skills is likely to really help in building confidence. I agree, find a buddy who will give you some tips. Next time, maybe ask for someone's opinion to see if you're on the right track in terms of social skills.

[IamAlsoThat]

I really am impressed with your ability to not be embarrased by negative thoughts. I find any such thoughts as you have expressed to be so absurdly fiction based that I don't even know where to begin. We are all as insecure and valuable as we say we are. If you valued yourself you would find that you are a lot more valuable than you think. Do not limit yourself to the belief that only if you don't care about girls will you like them.

There are definitely some girls (and guys) that are only in it for the chase. They want somone that seems busier has better things to do with their time than hang out with you. but that is not a generalization about all girls.

Consider steve's strategy for eliminating negative beliefs, its really helpful: consider what negative belief you have.
The ones you seem to have that Ive seen are
A) I have nothing to offer
B) I have low self esteem
C) I have very little friends
D) I am extremely shy
E) I have low social value
First of all realize that these beliefs are inherently and only really amount to belief. Take I have very little friends you could argue I really only have one friend (I am guessing by the way you said that that you have more) that's a low number. But you realize that some kids are homeschooled and aren't alowed to have any friends at all. Be grateful for what you have and initiate more. Be like oh Im going to this movie wanna come (ask that to people that are your semi-friends.) If you keep doing that your relationship will grow.
In other words its all relative and beliefs are the main thing thats holding you back. Who do you think people will want to be friends with more, someone who projects themselves with confidence and believes themselves to be valuable and have friends. Or someone who thinks they are a loser. If you don't love yourself how can anyone love you?

Now using steve's strategy for reducing negative beliefs lets start with the first one. Every time you have the thought I have nothing to offer. You will from now on vividly visualize this with as much outrageous imagry as you can think of, let a movie in your head play which includes you with a thought bubble saying "I have nothing to offer" this could include girls and guys all looking at you with disdain your pockets inside out revealing no money and no interests in any sport, music, or hobbys. Your head in this image is completely blank. And your searching around frantically for anything to offer to impress these people and you find absolutely nothing. Keep rehearsing this mental imagery until every time you think "I have nothing to offer" that picture will show up. Next visualize this picture transforming into a new image where your thought bubble now says " I have so much to offer" you watch as your empty pockets are filled with movie tickets, money a nice convertible car pops up behind you that anyone would wanna ride in just to try people are all following your every move and you are offering your crazy experiences with traveling and story telling and amazing sense of humor making everyone around you laugh gradually instead of having blank, bored, disgusted faces pointed at you. Practice until every time you think you have nothing to offer the complete movie with the happy faces at the end shows up in your mind.

Repeat these steps for B, C, D, E.

[inri]

Kneegrow, I just re-read your post and something really hit me. For a younger guy who considers himself to be somewhat 'inferior' you have an incredible amount of introspective ability. Coupled with your ability for self expression (& great writing skill) and level of honesty, the truth is, you're actually light years ahead of some of the guys you likely envy.

These things are more difficult for sensitive people. You likely feel and perceive things on a far deeper level than most. You're finding it tough now, but I'll bet in a few years you'll be sailing high. You've clearly got far more going for you than you even realize.

You're asking how you can overcome these issues and move forward.....I really believe that once we identify the things we want to change, we have literally begun to make these changes happen.

I predict (I did readings for years and still have strong intuitive abilities!) that there will come a day not so far from now where you'll find yourself in a social situation with this girl & you'll find yourself chatting comfortably with her.....in the meantime, try to start taking inventory of all the great things you have going on.

[Kneegrow]

I'm high right now so I didn't read all the posts yet.
For now I'll just say I'm affraid of admitting any good things about myself, other than being good at school. Mainly because I'm affraid of giving in to my ego, and then seeing it crushed again in reality by some event that would make me doubt my, for example, intelligence. And this is bad for me because all I do is compare myself to others. On the other hand, I see myself using this defense mechanism that I've even been encouraging lately to weaken the pain - telling myself that people are just dumb.

Another thing. Lately I seem to be coming to the conclusion that everyone but my family is just using me, and that no one outside my family really cares about me. This is because I'm so needy of other people's approval, that even when they like me I'm not satisfied...

[cacheborn]

Ask 10 more girls out for coffee.

Two things might happen. If they all reject you, you will get used to rejection and also you will know you are giving a vibe that is repulsive. Then you can find out what it is, change it and try again.

If even one of them accepts, go on and and enjoy the date.

One more thing. Get out of your head. Be in the moment. Stop thinking about how you appear to others.

[brendannz]

You just came one step closer to finding the girl that's right for you, and you became a stronger, and more humble human being at the same time.

Congrats for that.

I agree with cacheborn, ask 10 more girls out, but do it when it's right for you.

[mikethedrummer44]

I have a feeling this problem is more about you than the girls. You posted on how you made them dislike you, how your friend is liked by them, etc. You gotta get over all of this. If you don't like your situation, then change it! We can change whatever we want about ourselves whenever we want. If you think the way your friend acts is why the girls like him, then imitate him for a while! Imitate people who are good with girls, and see what happens.

You can't feel like you have nothing to share. You need to convince yourself that you're an awesome person, because from reading your post, I feel that you're not as confident as you'd like to be. Maybe make a saying like "I am the greatest guy around, and any girl who disagrees isn't worth my time." Whatever saying you make, repeat it 102983129038 times every single day. Get it deeply ingrained in your mind. Start talking to more girls. If they ever rejected you, shrug it off, learn something from it, and repeat your phrase. You'll eventually start to believe it.

It takes time to get over insecurities, but it is very possible. Good luck man!

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by James81

Consider the possibility that at some point in your life someone did something to you that you didn't like, and in that moment you made a decision about yourself that you were unworthy of happiness.

Consider the possibility that all those thoughts about yourself are constructs of your own mind and they are your own creations.

Consider the possibility that other people are too busy thinking about THEIR self image to have the same thoughts about YOU. (that is, you are the only one thinking this stuff about yourself--nobody else is)

Consider the possibility that these negative feelings and those self destructive thoughts are becoming a self fullfilling prophecy in your life and that your obsession with YOURSELF (which is what an obsession for another really is) is the very thing that alienates you from others.

Consider the possibility that you can, at any moment, make a decision to change. And that that change will come through an honest, conscious assessment of yourself and who you really are (without the BS) and a conscious decision to change the beliefs you have about yourself. Change one belief, you'll change your entire world.

After considering all that stuff, sit down and take an honest assessment of yourself. Write it down. What are the things I don't like about my life? What are the things I DO like about my life? Where do I want to take my life? Who am I underneath the facade that I put on to the world?

Write about it. Get it out of you. And don't hold back on it.

You are repressing emotions when you should be expressing them. And your repression of your emotions is causing damage to your self image because everytime you repress an emotion you are telling yourself that the natural flow of what you feel is invalid and thus you are not worthy to express yourself wholly. And each time you hold back on that expression, you create tension within yourself and make it harder the next time to express yourself.

So, began a path of expressing whatever emotion you feel. If you need an outlet, consider something that makes you active...do something that can let you really work yourself out. Get a punching bag, start an exercise regime, etc.

I'm not sure what do you mean by expressing my emotions. I mean, the best emotions I know are frustration and depression, how and why would I express those ?

I thought of signing up at this kick box club - it would definitely help me as far as anxiety goes at least. But I feel I wouldn't be doing it for myself, but for others.

Originally Posted by Eduard E

OK. Time to ask yourself some questions: what are your strengths? What do you have to offer? What makes you sexy? I see being attractive part as leveraging on your strengths, part as improving yourself to have more strengths to leverage on. But it all starts with understanding where you are .

I don't really know, probably because I have no good reference experience. I figured none values intelligence (which I have, I guess). Or they'll value it, but only up to some point. It's not enough to be a good friend or a lover.

No idea what makes me sexy. And I don't know what I can offer to a girl specifically. For example, whenever I'm funny I'm being sarcastic. My jokes will go over the head of most girls my age. Or well... at least the ones I'm attracted to (I'd say the same for the above paragraph).

Originally Posted by marinik

So why do we girls seam shallow and superficial? Because one girls does not like you? So what! I bet you don't even acknowledge the fact some poor girl that adores you exists! It is a merry-go-around for a while until everybody "gets" the rules of the game.

They are, for the most part. Take this example. I ask her out on a drink just to talk to her, and she won't even tell me the reason why she didn't want to go (indeed, I asked her). It was obvious she based her decision on some shallow vision of me and therefore I didn't get a better chance.

Originally Posted by bweston

Another thing you might want to look into is meditation. This made a huge difference in my life. Learn to be able to sit with yourself for 20 minutes, in your head. After some practice, you'll be able to see all of the thoughts, especially negative ones, in your head as just jibberish.

I don't know man. I tried it. One time I got this really amazing experience of being at peace with everything. That was only that time, though. After that meditation didn't really do anything for me and only felt like a chore. I think I quit it after doing it consecutively for a week, and every 2nd day or so a week after that.

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodword

Somehow you need to get some social skills - I don't mean this as an insult, but you're not going to have success on this kind of romantic attempt until you do. For example, it doesn't make sense to ask someone out (even to coffee) without having exchanged names. That's more or less social skill #1 - if you ask her out without knowing her name, it comes off as creepy stalker behavior, which is a big turnoff.

We talked before and exchanged names, albeit not much. That's the reason why I decided to ask her out. I didn't get any chances to get to know her better, and I wanted to, so I did this. Thanks to me being pretty nervous and insecure, I failed.

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer

I have a feeling this problem is more about you than the girls. You posted on how you made them dislike you, how your friend is liked by them, etc. You gotta get over all of this. If you don't like your situation, then change it! We can change whatever we want about ourselves whenever we want. If you think the way your friend acts is why the girls like him, then imitate him for a while! Imitate people who are good with girls, and see what happens.

That's not really good advice. I thought imitating would be good, but whenever I tried it, I couldn't imitate him properly, and I also wouldn't feel right about it. Other than him having a peculiar personality, thats just not me bro.

[billionairekid]

Kneegrow - I think you could really use a process called "the work" by Byron Katie. If you google her name, you'll find her website where you can download the worksheet that takes you through how to use "the work." It's a very simple process and yet it's produced some of the most profound results (and changes) in my life and in many other lives. You have these thoughts and the truth is, they're just thoughts. They have no inherent meaning until you give them meaning. And when a thought repeats over and over in your mind, without examination, it turns into a belief.

I guarantee that if you were to examine a lot of the thoughts you're having in this format, you'd have your perception changed. The process isn't about changing yourself, that's a by-product and naturally happens. If you want to change you'll give it a try. If not, well then at least this post has reminded me that I myself want to use "the work" on some thoughts I've been having.

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by billionairekid

Kneegrow - I think you could really use a process called "the work" by Byron Katie. If you google her name, you'll find her website where you can download the worksheet that takes you through how to use "the work." It's a very simple process and yet it's produced some of the most profound results (and changes) in my life and in many other lives. You have these thoughts and the truth is, they're just thoughts. They have no inherent meaning until you give them meaning. And when a thought repeats over and over in your mind, without examination, it turns into a belief.

I guarantee that if you were to examine a lot of the thoughts you're having in this format, you'd have your perception changed. The process isn't about changing yourself, that's a by-product and naturally happens. If you want to change you'll give it a try. If not, well then at least this post has reminded me that I myself want to use "the work" on some thoughts I've been having.

Tried it before. Can't really say it helped.

It seems that it's just natural for my brain to just compare myself with others all the time, with everything I do. Truth be told, I have no idea if and how I can change that... I've been to a therapist, mostly for anxiety, and the sessions were short and I didn't express myself fully when it comes to some of the core problems I have. I mentioned it once, but she just told me 'the need to prove yourself to others comes from insecurity'. This is obvious, but I didn't ask her enough how exactly to become secure.

Also, whenever I'm trying to become confident, it still comes down to comparison with others. Should I just not resist this or what ?

[inri]

Originally Posted by Kneegrow

I'm high right now so I didn't read all the posts yet.
For now I'll just say I'm affraid of admitting any good things about myself, other than being good at school. Mainly because I'm affraid of giving in to my ego, and then seeing it crushed again in reality by some event that would make me doubt my, for example, intelligence. And this is bad for me because all I do is compare myself to others. On the other hand, I see myself using this defense mechanism that I've even been encouraging lately to weaken the pain - telling myself that people are just dumb.

Another thing. Lately I seem to be coming to the conclusion that everyone but my family is just using me, and that no one outside my family really cares about me. This is because I'm so needy of other people's approval, that even when they like me I'm not satisfied...

If you suffer from anxiety and an exaggerated focus upon self, my advice would be to lose the pot. I'm a highly sensitive, person who's prone to anxiety and I can tell you that just a little THC has the effect of heightening my sensitivity to the point where I can hardly stand it. I become so self conscious, that it borders on paranoia. I know pot also affects many others in the same way. Seriously, this habit is NOT helping you with your issues.

Once again, I'm incredibly impressed with how concisely you're able to describe the inner working of your self. You have a really good grasp on what your thought processes are....it's tough to understand how someone seemingly so insightful on one hand, can be reaching ALL the wrong conclusions on the other....kind of begs the asking....are you for real?

If so, you really must start embracing the fact that each of us is capable of CHOOSING the thoughts that we think on a moment to moment basis....why not just try moving your thoughts into a more positive direction by 'choosing' ones that support yourself rather than tear yourself down? Try wearing an elastic band around your wrist...everytime you think a crappy thought about yourself, you snap the band and replace that thought with something more positive.

At first the thought doesn't have to be all that more positive...you have to take baby steps til you get the ball rolling....AND you'll likely have a very sore wrist at first! Even a thought such as; "I know I have the power to choose my thoughts" would be an improvement. from there you could move to such things as, "I know I'm intelligent, caring"...(or whatever it is you KNOW yourself to actually be). It's not good to make empty affirmations here. You must actually believe the things you are telling yourself.

Surely, there's some small positive truths about yourself that you can arrive at to replace ALL the negative inner dialogue you're having...?

[Nameless One]

Well like Jay Z says, I got 99 problems but a ♥♥♥♥♥ aint one. Btw I love your name Kneegrow

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by inri

If you suffer from anxiety and an exaggerated focus upon self, my advice would be to lose the pot. I'm a highly sensitive, person who's prone to anxiety and I can tell you that just a little THC has the effect of heightening my sensitivity to the point where I can hardly stand it. I become so self conscious, that it borders on paranoia. I know pot also affects many others in the same way. Seriously, this habit is NOT helping you with your issues.

Yeah, actually I started experiencing something like that too. The only time I fully enjoy it seems to be when I'm alone -haven't tried it with that friend or similar people yet though, I mostly smoke with people I got to know through smoking and I'm new to that...

Originally Posted by inri

Once again, I'm incredibly impressed with how concisely you're able to describe the inner working of your self. You have a really good grasp on what your thought processes are....it's tough to understand how someone seemingly so insightful on one hand, can be reaching ALL the wrong conclusions on the other....kind of begs the asking....are you for real?

Which wrong conclusions ?

Originally Posted by inri

If so, you really must start embracing the fact that each of us is capable of CHOOSING the thoughts that we think on a moment to moment basis....why not just try moving your thoughts into a more positive direction by 'choosing' ones that support yourself rather than tear yourself down? Try wearing an elastic band around your wrist...everytime you think a crappy thought about yourself, you snap the band and replace that thought with something more positive.

I dunno, I guess when I'm in an actual social situation for example, the thoughts happen so fast, you don't get a chance to react by replacing them with something positive (or I'm too occupied with the current thoughts)

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by Nameless One

Well like Jay Z says, I got 99 problems but a ♥♥♥♥♥ aint one. Btw I love your name Kneegrow

Thanks. Sadly it's not original

[inri]

Originally Posted by Kneegrow

Yeah, actually I started experiencing something like that too. The only time I fully enjoy it seems to be when I'm alone -haven't tried it with that friend or similar people yet though, I mostly smoke with people I got to know through smoking and I'm new to that...

Yes....the only time I really can tolerate smoking...about 3 times per year...because, Yes! it give me some amazing insight into myself......I have about 2 days before I lose the 'beat myself up' .......'paranoia' game......just writing this, makes me realize it's just not worth it....even though I come up with some great writing material.

Which wrong conclusions ?

The conclusions that tell you that you are not enough, that you are somehow deficient in what a man...a person...should be. I don't even really know you, yet I CAN tell that you are an exceptional human being....Do you yourself even see this?

I dunno, I guess when I'm in an actual social situation for example, the thoughts happen so fast, you don't get a chance to react by replacing them with something positive (or I'm too occupied with the current thoughts)

Sure, when in the immediate action, it all flows way too fast....but.....in those introspective, inner moments afterwards, then you can go within and assess what transpired.....that's when it's time to give yourself the break that you clearly deserve....that's when the negative thought flow that influence your overall opinion of yourself....please know...these opinions are NOT carved in stone. They fluctuate on a day to day basis according to the thoughts that they are feed. Start feeding your opinions some healthy, life affirming food!

OKay.....you must give me a hand here....I've consumed the better part of a bottle of wine....well, maybe the BEST part...& could still somehow type!

I like you KNEEGROW.....yoU are one of the most honest people I've Encountered on a forum and you have some intensely positive stuff going on!.....seriously....you far OVERESTIMATE the working of other people's minds....in favor of dismissing your own.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Kneegrow

They are, for the most part. Take this example. I ask her out on a drink just to talk to her, and she won't even tell me the reason why she didn't want to go (indeed, I asked her). It was obvious she based her decision on some shallow vision of me and therefore I didn't get a better chance.

So, you - in your own words - being obsessed with her based on nothing more than a brief acquaintance is not shallow... but her deciding she's not interested in a coffee date with you based on the same criteria is? You don't know her any better than she knows you, your interest is based on 'shallow' criteria as well. It's normal for people to make decisions about who they are or aren't interested in getting to know better on physical appeal and whether they feel comfortable or get a good vibe from a particular person.

She doesn't owe you any explanation and it doesn't make her a bad or stupid person because she doesn't want the same thing as you (but your demand that she justify her 'no' doubtless convinced her she made the right decision). Letting go of some of that irrational anger and judgment might help you a bit though.

[Eliza]

Hi Kneegrow,

I stumbled upon the following lovely article this morning, and it's something that I'm going to put into practice. Take a read and see what you think:

Feeling Blessed

Amber

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by inri

Yes....the only time I really can tolerate smoking...about 3 times per year...because, Yes! it give me some amazing insight into myself......I have about 2 days before I lose the 'beat myself up' .......'paranoia' game......just writing this, makes me realize it's just not worth it....even though I come up with some great writing material.

Yeah actually in the beginning when I was smoking I'd feel all self accepted and stuff... now I started getting anxious and a bit paranoid.

Originally Posted by inri

The conclusions that tell you that you are not enough, that you are somehow deficient in what a man...a person...should be. I don't even really know you, yet I CAN tell that you are an exceptional human being....Do you yourself even see this?

No. And I don't want to, because then my ego would grow bigger and I would be more prone to emotional pain based on an outside event in the future.

Yes....the only time I really can tolerate smoking...about 3 times per year...because, Yes! it give me some amazing insight into myself......I have about 2 days before I lose the 'beat myself up' .......'paranoia' game......just writing this, makes me realize it's just not worth it....even though I come up with some great writing material.

Yeah actually in the beginning when I was smoking I'd feel all self accepted and stuff... now I started getting anxious and a bit paranoid.

Originally Posted by Indiana

So, you - in your own words - being obsessed with her based on nothing more than a brief acquaintance is not shallow... but her deciding she's not interested in a coffee date with you based on the same criteria is? You don't know her any better than she knows you, your interest is based on 'shallow' criteria as well. It's normal for people to make decisions about who they are or aren't interested in getting to know better on physical appeal and whether they feel comfortable or get a good vibe from a particular person.

No. I asked her out for a drink. I wasn't going to marry her, I was trying to found out who she truly is. That's not shallow.

Yes, emotionally I am obsessed, but I'm aware of it and know it's not a good thing. The reason for me being emotionally obsessed is needyness not shallowness.

Originally Posted by Indiana

She doesn't owe you any explanation and it doesn't make her a bad or stupid person because she doesn't want the same thing as you (but your demand that she justify her 'no' doubtless convinced her she made the right decision). Letting go of some of that irrational anger and judgment might help you a bit though.

I know she doesn't, but that's not the reason she didn't tell me. I wasn't angry when I asked her that either, I was pretty calm, I just wanted to know how I could improve myself. But she couldn't help.

Originally Posted by Eliza

I stumbled upon the following lovely article this morning, and it's something that I'm going to put into practice. Take a read and see what you think:

Looks like a nice article, I'll read it later.

[inri]

Originally Posted by Kneegrow

Yeah actually in the beginning when I was smoking I'd feel all self accepted and stuff... now I started getting anxious and a bit paranoid.

Yes, my experience is that using pot to get you into a different frame of mind once in a while can be a tool of sorts for self exploration...when it becomes habitual though It's likely not doing most of us any favors.

No. And I don't want to, because then my ego would grow bigger and I would be more prone to emotional pain based on an outside event in the future.

But the truth is that when we know and love ourselves completely, we actually move beyond the smallest part of self and into a place where our need for outside approval actually DIMINISHES...When you reach this point of truly knowing your inner power and loving all aspects of your self, you can appreciate such things as getting a compliment or having others like you, but you don't NEED for them to do that in order for you to feel happy and at peace.
I really think you're going about it the hard way in trying to annihilate and deny a portion of your self. It's my belief that what most people refer to as ego, is actually an important facet of self...well it IS self the way I define it. Therefore, ego directs us towards true self discovery....it's only through MOVING THROUGH the lower parts of self through experience, that we come to know the higher aspects of self. By attempting to reject those parts of yourself rather than trying to love them and understand them, you're actually further anchoring yourself WITHIN them.

Either way you look at it, with your present perspective you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. You feel that you're less compared to others and this makes you unhappy, yet IF someone offers you a compliment and a chance to look at yourself in a higher light, you reject it because you don't want to feed your ego. If your goal is to be happy, I just don't see any real way you can get there while holding your present perspective.....the good news is, Our perspectives are merely a culmination of the thoughts we choose to think regularly...AND our thoughts CAN be chosen.

Yes, emotionally I am obsessed, but I'm aware of it and know it's not a good thing. The reason for me being emotionally obsessed is needyness not shallowness.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two. When we're feeling 'needy' we're not accessing the higher aspects of self....you're therefore 'feeling' and perceiving on a 'shallow' level.

I know she doesn't, but that's not the reason she didn't tell me. I wasn't angry when I asked her that either, I was pretty calm, I just wanted to know how I could improve myself. But she couldn't help.

the truth is, she may not have even really had an answer...if shy, the whole thing may have made her so uncomfortable she just wanted to get away from it......I recall back in my late teens &early twenties, actually turning guys down who I really liked simply because I was freaked out at the prospect of sitting with them one on one and having conversation when I did not really know them. This is what shy people go through...and yes, it IS operating on a level of perception that is 'shallow' in that we're not seeing ourselves as the expanded, powerful beings that we truly are.

[Brutha]

I ask her out on a drink just to talk to her, and she won't even tell me the reason why she didn't want to go (indeed, I asked her). It was obvious she based her decision on some shallow vision of me and therefore I didn't get a better chance.

Asking a girl why she rejected you is simply creepy. Honest feedback needs trusts that you burned the moment you get rejected.
Even if you get an answer to that question the answer won't be the cause of why she rejected you but would be a justification of which she thinks that the justification will help you to accept the rejection.

Even if a woman has the emotional self awareness to know why she rejected you (and a lot of woman probably don't know more than "it didn't felt right") she's unlikely to share her emotions with you immediately after she rejected you.

No. And I don't want to, because then my ego would grow bigger and I would be more prone to emotional pain based on an outside event in the future.

That's why low self esteem people keep their low self esteem instead of raising it.

If you have access to peer reviewed articles through a university I would suggest you to read:
"More Than Words: Reframing Compliments From Romantic Partners
Fosters Security in Low Self-Esteem Individuals" by Denise C. Marigold el al.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Kneegrow

No. I asked her out for a drink. I wasn't going to marry her, I was trying to found out who she truly is. That's not shallow.

But your criteria for wanting to get to know her was, by necessity, shallow. Why did you ask her, as opposed to any other girl in your class? Because there was something about her that made you decide she was more worthwhile getting to know, even though you knew almost nothing about her. She didn't see the same thing in you, to her you meant as much as all the other girls in the class who you're not interested in.

I know she doesn't, but that's not the reason she didn't tell me. I wasn't angry when I asked her that either, I was pretty calm, I just wanted to know how I could improve myself. But she couldn't help.

Your motivation is commendable but the person above who said trust has to be earned is correct. You can't expect someone you don't know to disclose the reasons for a personal rejection. What if the reason was 'I was raped recently and I don't want to spend time with someone I barely know.'? Can you see why she might not want to share that? Or, as she doesn't know you and how you're likely to react, perhaps she didn't want to risk angering you by saying 'You're just not physically attractive to me.' As someone who has been stalked, I know about being wary when someone who barely knows you starts asking unexpectedly personal questions.

[Kneegrow]

Originally Posted by Brutha

That's why low self esteem people keep their low self esteem instead of raising it.

If you have access to peer reviewed articles through a university I would suggest you to read:
"More Than Words: Reframing Compliments From Romantic Partners
Fosters Security in Low Self-Esteem Individuals" by Denise C. Marigold el al.

I don't (I'm not from North America). I found it on the internet but I gotta pay for it.

What does it say ? Is there any way to get out of this 'magic' circle of low self esteem ? It seems like it wouldn't be of much use for me (other than curiosity), cause I never had a romantic partner, especially not one which gave me compliments.

Anyway Brutha you seem to have some decent insight on women (or just human?) psychology, where did you learn that ? It seems like everything you said about this chick was spot on.

Originally Posted by Indiana

But your criteria for wanting to get to know her was, by necessity, shallow. Why did you ask her, as opposed to any other girl in your class? Because there was something about her that made you decide she was more worthwhile getting to know, even though you knew almost nothing about her. She didn't see the same thing in you, to her you meant as much as all the other girls in the class who you're not interested in.

As you said, it has to be shallow since we have no other way of getting to know each other before we actually talk. And she rejected the talking part

Originally Posted by Indiana

Your motivation is commendable but the person above who said trust has to be earned is correct. You can't expect someone you don't know to disclose the reasons for a personal rejection. What if the reason was 'I was raped recently and I don't want to spend time with someone I barely know.'? Can you see why she might not want to share that? Or, as she doesn't know you and how you're likely to react, perhaps she didn't want to risk angering you by saying 'You're just not physically attractive to me.' As someone who has been stalked, I know about being wary when someone who barely knows you starts asking unexpectedly personal questions.

Fair enough... but still, is it that bad to just ask 'may I know the reasons for your rejection?'. Can't hurt to try, right ?

Man, the more I read these posts, the worse I feel because of realizing how bad of an impression I made. It's just hard to accept that I ****ed up this badly again with some person I liked. Like, most people at least get to a friends stage, I'm not even good enough to get there :/ I wouldn't care if I wasn't so emotionally invested... but what can you do ?