Irrational fear of putting myself on the line

[amanwithaplan]

I can go on and on about my problems, but I started reading into pick up and that has brought me to the whole self-development angle. I've read many books on various issues regarding Psychology and personal development. I struggled with self-esteem issues all through high school and was depressed now that I look back.

I really started this path through reading pick up. I really thought being 'fat' (I'm skinny-fat if at all at the worst) and Asian and I thought these were really the issues. I mean I kind of have had highs and lows since being on campus. But now I really can't even get myself to self-loathe anymore (that just clicked in a while ago). I mean I haven't mustered the courage to approach a chick. I mean I'll go in fine granted situational context. But I honestly have no intent. It's like I'm asexual and/or really afraid of putting myself on the line to get a no/rejection. I'm seriously making this very difficult for myself.

I mean I can go on about my problems. I was a severe porn addict and the OCD I had really did not help the cause at all. I would constantly download, re-download and re-organize, and all that stuff not just with porn but with movies, TV shows, music and all the like.

I don't want to make it out that getting girls is my life but it's something I kind of want to do, just for the ****'s. Just to be able to do it. To achieve some basic competency in that area. Just to not have it worried about. I've kind of done a lot of nothing. I mean I've been hitting the gym. I have yet to get a job and I honestly don't let myself engage in responsibilities of any sort. My parents have kind of babied me all these years.

I kind of already had the answers but I just don't know why I have this unwillingness to put myself on the line to get a no or a rejection. It's silly.

[theorique]

A few questions to contemplate:

What are your top two or three goals in this area of your life?

What would you do and how would you behave, day to day, if you were completely unafraid of rejection from women?

Do you have any real-life peers or potential mentors (preferably a little bit above your level of development) with whom you can work to improve in this area? (Online help and reading are ok, but nothing beats real-world experience in social development.)

What are the boundaries of your comfort zone in this area? (It's hard to get better until you know - honestly - where you're at. )

-jack

[bweston]

Like Jack asked, what are some explicit things you want to work on?

As someone that was in a somewhat situation in college (Asian, no experience, worried about putting myself out there, etc.), just know that you will get your opportunity!

Here are some things that helped me:
- joined various clubs and started interacting with women
- have some close female friends to get advice from
- have a "wingman" of sorts to at least do some scary/sill stuff together with
- determine what limiting beliefs are holding you back
- use EFT or talk it out with a close friend to rid yourself of them
- try taking some uncomfortable but manageable actions i.e. asking a girl to hang out, asking a girl to join you for a smoothie/party/rock-climbing/etc

It took me a while to get through it all so I probably can't detail it all here. Feel free to pm me if you want some more advice or even just some encouragement.

Take care,
Ben

[amanwithaplan]

Originally Posted by theorique

A few questions to contemplate:

What are your top two or three goals in this area of your life?

What would you do and how would you behave, day to day, if you were completely unafraid of rejection from women?

Do you have any real-life peers or potential mentors (preferably a little bit above your level of development) with whom you can work to improve in this area? (Online help and reading are ok, but nothing beats real-world experience in social development.)

What are the boundaries of your comfort zone in this area? (It's hard to get better until you know - honestly - where you're at. )

-jack

My top few goals in this area are 1) just to be able to walk up to literally any chick and start a conversation, 2) become immune or indifferent to a no or rejection, 3) develop competency and eventually excellence in this area (just really being comfortable in my own skin and knowing concretely who I am without the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥)

If I was completely unafraid, I'd literally just go up and try with like any chick I find desirable or attractive and just chat them up and see where it goes from there.

I don't really have friends that are into this. I mean, obviously, everyone wants to get chicks without all the work. I can kind of just throw a different spin to it. Most of them have really got laid through in situational circumstances.

The boundaries of my comfort zone are well - I'm apologetic about my desires and needs. Like I've been conditioned to be such a lame chode through excessive computer usage and just being this self-hating, self-defeating, self-loathing dude. I just am 'unable' to get a no or rejection at this point in time.

Originally Posted by bweston

Like Jack asked, what are some explicit things you want to work on?

As someone that was in a somewhat situation in college (Asian, no experience, worried about putting myself out there, etc.), just know that you will get your opportunity!

Here are some things that helped me:
- joined various clubs and started interacting with women
- have some close female friends to get advice from
- have a "wingman" of sorts to at least do some scary/sill stuff together with
- determine what limiting beliefs are holding you back
- use EFT or talk it out with a close friend to rid yourself of them
- try taking some uncomfortable but manageable actions i.e. asking a girl to hang out, asking a girl to join you for a smoothie/party/rock-climbing/etc

It took me a while to get through it all so I probably can't detail it all here. Feel free to pm me if you want some more advice or even just some encouragement.

Take care,
Ben

Ben, I would actually like to talk to you some more. I feel like it could be really helpful. I'll PM you.

[amanwithaplan]

Oh, I'm not going to lie. I'm not even down to get a Facebook because I don't like people nosing around on me. It's really twisted to see how like I'd even be paranoid to that regard. It's got a lot better and I've kind of rationalized how I wouldn't like one cause I'd be spending too much time on it. But yeah. I don't know. Girls get semi-weirded out when they find out I don't have one.

[Plato]

Have you been reading RSD?

Ultimately, you're not going to stop being afraid until you realize talking to chicks is safe. Fear is an automatic response to perceived threat. The solution is to stop making the situation dangerous through the way you think about it. You CAN do this. I promise you.

Choose to notice how you think. How are you making this into a big deal in your mind? Notice how you attach your self worth to the outcome in particular.

One thing I suggest is to start taking responsibility for what you are doing. That is to say: either choose to approach the woman with full acceptance of the consequences, or choose not to.

Another thing I suggest is to stop thinking about it in binary terms: rejection or... acceptance (I guess)? The range of possible interaction you could have are infinite and every one is ultimately unique and nuanced.

Also, tell yourself this:

"No matter what happens in this situation, even in the worst case scenario, I will be OK. Nothing that happens here has the power to stop me meeting more chicks. I will not let what happens here be a judgement of my worth as a person. If the girl dislikes me it means nothing about me. If we end up having sex that also means nothing about my worth.

If this doesn't work out, I will find another way to get what I want."

[theorique]

Originally Posted by amanwithaplan

My top few goals in this area are 1) just to be able to walk up to literally any chick and start a conversation, 2) become immune or indifferent to a no or rejection, 3) develop competency and eventually excellence in this area (just really being comfortable in my own skin and knowing concretely who I am without the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥)

That's great! - you have some very concrete, specific goals. Once you've defined what you want, you are in a real position to move from A to B.

Also, I think these are intelligent goals for your starting point - they don't sound absurd or unrealistic as long as you put in a certain amount of effort and work on yourself.

Originally Posted by amanwithaplan

If I was completely unafraid, I'd literally just go up and try with like any chick I find desirable or attractive and just chat them up and see where it goes from there.

Sounds good to me. I think the key is to work incrementally if you're afraid of rejection - for example, you could first start working on eye contact, then eye contact and a smile, then eye, contact, smile and "hey, how's it going?", then an attempt to start a longer conversation. The more practice you get with the easier stages, the more natural it will be to transition to more challenging ones.

Work up as gradually as you feel you have to - no need to hurry and wind up upsetting yourself. At the same time, this will likely push you outside your comfort zone, and it will help to be prepared for that too.

Originally Posted by amanwithaplan

The boundaries of my comfort zone are well - I'm apologetic about my desires and needs. Like I've been conditioned to be such a lame chode through excessive computer usage and just being this self-hating, self-defeating, self-loathing dude. I just am 'unable' to get a no or rejection at this point in time.

It sounds like you've got a few limiting beliefs that you don't like holding and would like to change. My first suggestion in this area would be to be much kinder and gentler in the way you treat yourself and talk to yourself. It sounds like you stuck to computer use and online activities in the past because they were safe and comfortable for you, so you were doing something that was the right thing for you to do at the time.

Now it sounds like you want to change that behavior and learn to be more outgoing and social around women - which is fine. But don't hate yourself for things that you did in order to cope in the past. I believe that your past self was just doing the best that he could with what was available to him at the time, just as you are doing the best you can now, with what you have now.

[amanwithaplan]

Originally Posted by theorique

Sounds good to me. I think the key is to work incrementally if you're afraid of rejection - for example, you could first start working on eye contact, then eye contact and a smile, then eye, contact, smile and "hey, how's it going?", then an attempt to start a longer conversation. The more practice you get with the easier stages, the more natural it will be to transition to more challenging ones.

Work up as gradually as you feel you have to - no need to hurry and wind up upsetting yourself. At the same time, this will likely push you outside your comfort zone, and it will help to be prepared for that too.

Yeah, I mean as much as I read and gain knowledge on fear mechanisms work, what to say and whatnot, it really all comes to down to taking the actual steps of ACTION to desensitize myself to it. That or just kind of making it a habit.

Originally Posted by theorique

It sounds like you've got a few limiting beliefs that you don't like holding and would like to change. My first suggestion in this area would be to be much kinder and gentler in the way you treat yourself and talk to yourself. It sounds like you stuck to computer use and online activities in the past because they were safe and comfortable for you, so you were doing something that was the right thing for you to do at the time.

Now it sounds like you want to change that behavior and learn to be more outgoing and social around women - which is fine. But don't hate yourself for things that you did in order to cope in the past. I believe that your past self was just doing the best that he could with what was available to him at the time, just as you are doing the best you can now, with what you have now.

That's true. I am pretty harsh on myself, like I'm the worst self-critique ever. I think that stems from being negative. But I'm working to be a much more positive person. Just kind of enjoy what you have now and have things to work towards.

Thanks.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by amanwithaplan

If I was completely unafraid

It's a little trite, but "Do one thing every day that scares you."

[amanwithaplan]

Somehow missed this but...

Originally Posted by Plato

Have you been reading RSD?

Yes, it's kind of what got me jump started on this path.

Originally Posted by Plato

Ultimately, you're not going to stop being afraid until you realize talking to chicks is safe. Fear is an automatic response to perceived threat. The solution is to stop making the situation dangerous through the way you think about it. You CAN do this. I promise you.

Choose to notice how you think. How are you making this into a big deal in your mind? Notice how you attach your self worth to the outcome in particular.

I was kind of paranoid about doing some of the stuff that plagued me back then and now I'm just like, "Why did I put myself through that unnecessary yet painful ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?"

Originally Posted by Plato

One thing I suggest is to start taking responsibility for what you are doing. That is to say: either choose to approach the woman with full acceptance of the consequences, or choose not to.

Another thing I suggest is to stop thinking about it in binary terms: rejection or... acceptance (I guess)? The range of possible interaction you could have are infinite and every one is ultimately unique and nuanced.

That's true. That's why my friends say I put myself through unnecessary burden. Like I talk of wanting chicks and if I really wanted it THAT badly, I could just do something about it. I do see when I'm just care free and in the moment, I feel so good. It's like the two states that pull me back and forth. That's why I have been bipolar since college. I mean, it's hell of a lot better than being negative and pissy all the time.

Originally Posted by Plato

Also, tell yourself this:

"No matter what happens in this situation, even in the worst case scenario, I will be OK. Nothing that happens here has the power to stop me meeting more chicks. I will not let what happens here be a judgment of my worth as a person. If the girl dislikes me it means nothing about me. If we end up having sex that also means nothing about my worth.

If this doesn't work out, I will find another way to get what I want."

That's actually one of the better affirmation lines I've seen in a while. Thanks!!!

-- Side thing ---
I notice when I'm high or drunk or just kind of messed up, the self-doubt and extraneous paranoid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (that would usually consume me in the past sober or not) will kick in somewhat hard. It's been less bad since I realized it, but I wonder why that is the case. It's like the high and low cycles are INTENSIFIED. I went through a pretty bad period but now that I realize it, it's effects have diminished but it's still there. It's probably off topic but yeah, thought I'd throw it out there.

[theorique]

Just remember, you're not alone. You can find a supportive community of people who will help you overcome your perceived limitations. Working with others in real life beats an ocean of online words, hands down.