best way to handle conversational fallout?

[rei]

so, i just finished a heated type of conversation with my mother. i didn't get heated at all. she was explaining ways she will reward me when i finish getting my other Master's degree. i mentioned that it would have been nice to feel like i would be loved the same amount even if i didn't succeed academically. i was calmly expressing how it was for me growing up.

the convo was interrupted by a phone call. when she came back, she was explaining her religious/spiritual/cosmic belief that we are basically obligated to make the most of the talents we have. i mentioned the idea that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have, she didn't think that was true, i mentioned how a person might be in a lot of pain or have difficult experiences that make that person try less. she said i could provide excuses if i wanted to. asked if she was talking about the Protestant work ethic. she was saying since i have intelligence, she thinks it is my responsibility to use it.

to her that means i am responsible for getting an education and an educated type of job instead of working at a minimum wage job. she tried to provide evidence that she loves and accepts me anyway, and it's true she has tolerated a lot and i have not turned out to be the type of person she would have molded me to be. i acknowledged that, and said i was mainly talking about education - how i got the message growing up that i wouldn't be as loved if i didn't excel in academics and this created a lot of pressure.

when she brought up again how she thinks i should make the most of the talents i have, i said i understand where she is coming from, but i would have preferred to feel inspired to succeed instead of forced.

she said she would see me later and slammed the door.

i understand how she probably feels like i'm insulting her parenting skills, but i even said at one point i don't discount the positives in how i was raised as i know i had it better than a lot of people. but i do feel like those patterns as i grew up led to perfectionism and that's not a fun way to be. i did not feel like my comments warranted her storming off, or rather, i would have preferred to continue to some kind of resolution, and i dislike that the conversation ended that way.

also, i sprained my ankle a couple days ago and she was planning to do a load of laundry for me. now i will probably do it myself as i don't want her washing my clothes when she's pissed at me, my vibe is too sensitive to wear something that was processed with negativity. i shouldn't be walking any extra but i'll manage.

i'm posting here to get ideas for how i might approach a calm, respectful resolution of this conversation. also posting here because the way she reacted, i am probably feeling more responsibility than necessary or desirable. i'm responsible for communicating as respectfully and clearly as i can, about my own experience, and if she chooses to react this way, i know that's not my responsibility but i still see the sense of hurt there and i don't like it - could very well be i was also trained as i was growing up to jump to fix things when i'm made to feel guilty, but such a pattern would have been quite subtle (she has a doctorate in psychology so such methods would be covert, not overt - and i know i'm responsible for my own patterns of behavior regardless of how i was raised).

so, ideas for how i might encourage a satisfying resolution later?

i know a mother is likely to feel insulted by what i said to her, but my goal wasn't to insult. my goal was to explain how i think those patterns of pushing me to excel in education have not helped me feel like i would be loved the same either way. the love wasn't focused on the effort - it wasn't focused on "do your best, i love and support you no matter how it turns out if you do your best." it was focused on, "do your best, and the results must reflect that, or i am going to be disappointed and disapproving [which a child will feel as withdrawal of unconditional love]." i needed her to understand how that was for me, but i didn't expect her to get so huffy about it. or, i expected an opportunity to continue discussing it until that desire to storm off had transformed into mutual understanding.

[spirit4711]

You surely succeeded in pushing her buttons. Question is, was that your intention?

If not, how come you did?

If it was your intention, what did you want to achieve?

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

You surely succeeded in pushing her buttons. Question is, was that your intention?

If not, how come you did?

If it was your intention, what did you want to achieve?

no, it wasn't my intention. i guess i did because part of her understands exactly what i was getting at and realizes the messages came across that way? i don't know, i would have to find out from her how her buttons got pushed when i was making an effort to have a civil discussion. but, she is not usually likely to provide forthright answers to questions like that.

but it wasn't my intention to create a triggering experience.

[Brutha]

i understand how she probably feels like i'm insulting her parenting skills, but i even said at one point i don't discount the positives in how i was raised as i know i had it better than a lot of people. but i do feel like those patterns as i grew up led to perfectionism and that's not a fun way to be. i did not feel like my comments warranted her storming off, or rather, i would have preferred to continue to some kind of resolution, and i dislike that the conversation ended that way.

Maybe your mother just needs time to think about what you told her. You can't expect a resolution to a conflict like this without giving the other person the time and space to think through the conflict.

Practice acceptance of the way your mother reacted and don't judge her for reacting that way.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by rei

i know a mother is likely to feel insulted by what i said to her, but my goal wasn't to insult. my goal was to explain how i think those patterns of pushing me to excel in education have not helped me feel like i would be loved the same either way. the love wasn't focused on the effort - it wasn't focused on "do your best, i love and support you no matter how it turns out if you do your best." it was focused on, "do your best, and the results must reflect that, or i am going to be disappointed and disapproving [which a child will feel as withdrawal of unconditional love]." i needed her to understand how that was for me, but i didn't expect her to get so huffy about it. or, i expected an opportunity to continue discussing it until that desire to storm off had transformed into mutual understanding.

Well, you know the old saying, "what you want and what you get are two little piggies who never met."

Your goal wasn't to insult, but your goal was to have her (you "needed" her to) understand that you don't approve of how she raised you -- you wish the past was other than what it was. Well, so what, rei? What is she going to do with an understanding like that -- that you wish things were other than what they were? How guiltifying is that? Here she just spent twenty something years doing her best to give you the best possible life, the way she understands that, and you, effectively, spurn her effort. Is it really so surprising she got huffy, and wasn't really in the mood to achieve mutual understanding? She was HURT, for god's sake.

I think if you're going to repair this with her (and not have her carry a secret grudge), it will take an apology for your clumsy approach, and some sincere, heartfelt, appreciation for what she has done for you, minus any "buts" or "other than THAT, Mrs. Lincolns" .... and further discussion on the subject might be more effective if you focus on your own responsibility, loving yourself (and maybe her) unconditionally to your academic achievements, and whatever positive, FUTURE-oriented learnings you can muster. It looks like you have some true forgiving to do -- which is not to say that you should tell your mother that you forgive her!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

no, it wasn't my intention. i guess i did because part of her understands exactly what i was getting at and realizes the messages came across that way? i don't know, i would have to find out from her how her buttons got pushed when i was making an effort to have a civil discussion. but, she is not usually likely to provide forthright answers to questions like that.

Dear rei, I believe you do know. Look a bit deeper. I don't think you need to ask her. You have all the information you need.

Has this kind of triggering occurred in the past? As you describe it, my guess is that this is not the first time.

but it wasn't my intention to create a triggering experience.

Well it was what happened. You and she are responsible for creating what you created together. To be clear: I am not blaming you for what happened. The fact is that you pushed her buttons and she let you push. So what could have been your unconscious intention?

Was there a point in the conversation where you became aware of you triggering her buttons?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Angela

Well, you know the old saying, "what you want and what you get are two little piggies who never met."

Your goal wasn't to insult, but your goal was to have her (you "needed" her to) understand that you don't approve of how she raised you -- you wish the past was other than what it was. Well, so what, rei? What is she going to do with an understanding like that -- that you wish things were other than what they were? How guiltifying is that? Here she just spent twenty something years doing her best to give you the best possible life, the way she understands that, and you, effectively, spurn her effort. Is it really so surprising she got huffy, and wasn't really in the mood to achieve mutual understanding? She was HURT, for god's sake.

I think if you're going to repair this with her (and not have her carry a secret grudge), it will take an apology for your clumsy approach, and some sincere, heartfelt, appreciation for what she has done for you, minus any "buts" or "other than THAT, Mrs. Lincolns" .... and further discussion on the subject might be more effective if you focus on your own responsibility, loving yourself (and maybe her) unconditionally to your academic achievements, and whatever positive, FUTURE-oriented learnings you can muster. It looks like you have some true forgiving to do -- which is not to say that you should tell your mother that you forgive her!

yep yep yep.
i brought it up because i saw evidence that the old pattern was still being used. she was talking about how she plans to reward me for completing my other Master's degree... as opposed to being proud of me anyway or wanting to give me something just for graduating in my current Master's program.

so i was admittedly a little irked that still, at this age, it felt like communication of the old message that led to perfectionism.

but you're right, my approach was not so good here. i let myself be blinded by the way i reacted to feeling like she was still communicating the old message. i agree it is more logical and practical to focus on the present and the future, but as it is now i'm still working from the belief that it's a bit easier to heal from the past if we look at it and process it.

you're right, though, i see now how the conversation may have felt like a blindsiding. yuck.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Dear rei, I believe you do know. Look a bit deeper. I don't think you need to ask her. You have all the information you need.

Has this kind of triggering occurred in the past? As you describe it, my guess is that this is not the first time.



Well it was what happened. You and she are responsible for creating what you created together. To be clear: I am not blaming you for what happened. The fact is that you pushed her buttons and she let you push. So what could have been your unconscious intention?

Was there a point in the conversation where you became aware of you triggering her buttons?

it seems, yes, the pattern has been there whenever i'm the one initiating a conversation about the patterns in the relationship. i guess i don't do a good job of setting it up in a nonconfrontational way - i mean, on the surface, yes, i do that. but i guess i might need to let her know i am wanting to discuss patterns in the relationship so she can feel emotionally prepared.

she doesn't do much in preparing me for the nature of a heavy convo she wants to initiate either. guess i learned this inadequate warning approach that way, but i can change it anyway.

as you can see from my response to Angela, underneath the calm and respectful exterior i did feel reactive about it when it seemed like she was still communicating the old message. i didn't convey the reactivity on the surface but she may have picked up on the hidden layers.

[Angela]

Boy oh boy, there are no triggers quite like mother-daughter triggers, are there. I must admit I was triggered a bit by your post -- I had a tearful moment of, "♥♥♥♥♥, I miss my mom -- rei doesn't know how lucky she is to have the opportunity to engage with her mom."

I'm really sorry if I came off as harsh there, rei; I know you're an excellent communicator and an extraordinarily loving person. And ♥♥♥♥♥, I miss my mom!

[rei]

Originally Posted by Angela

Boy oh boy, there are no triggers quite like mother-daughter triggers, are there. I must admit I was triggered a bit by your post -- I had a tearful moment of, "♥♥♥♥♥, I miss my mom -- rei doesn't know how lucky she is to have the opportunity to engage with her mom."

I'm really sorry if I came off as harsh there, rei; I know you're an excellent communicator and an extraordinarily loving person. And ♥♥♥♥♥, I miss my mom!

ah, yes, i understand... i have been the messenger for you to allow those feelings to surface before, if i recall. i understand too, i miss my dad a lot!

so i will ask, because i'm curious and you're so awesome with the self-reflection... is there a chance your focus in that response was about your own stuff, perhaps, some frustration that i'm not being super-appreciative of the opportunity to spend time with her? and could that have motivated a little bias in your response? i'm basically asking, if you didn't have that button yourself, would you have responded the same way? because, though i didn't feel blamed in your post, i did feel like it was making this all about me apologizing and not as much about how those old patterns from her have led to this moment where i was under-the-surface reactive to them. even if i could have been more graceful in the approach, those old patterns truly did give me a lot of opportunities to work through perfectionism, and i'm glad i have opportunities to grow, but i would still have preferred being raised in an environment where i actually felt loved unconditionally instead of only feeling like i would receive love if i achieve in educational pursuits.

i tried to be very gentle in asking you this...

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

it seems, yes, the pattern has been there whenever i'm the one initiating a conversation about the patterns in the relationship. i guess i don't do a good job of setting it up in a nonconfrontational way - i mean, on the surface, yes, i do that. but i guess i might need to let her know i am wanting to discuss patterns in the relationship so she can feel emotionally prepared.

Actually this a great! You become more aware of what is going on!

as you can see from my response to Angela, underneath the calm and respectful exterior i did feel reactive about it when it seemed like she was still communicating the old message. i didn't convey the reactivity on the surface but she may have picked up on the hidden layers.

Absolutely she has picked up your unconscious intention. I suggest that next time you do convey whatever emotion comes up for you. Because she'll pick it up anyhow. As you do with hers, even if she doesn't share them.

What 'location, location, location!' is in real estate, 'awareness, awareness, awareness!' is in PD.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by rei

so, i just finished a heated type of conversation with my mother. i didn't get heated at all. she was explaining ways she will reward me when i finish getting my other Master's degree. i mentioned that it would have been nice to feel like i would be loved the same amount even if i didn't succeed academically. i was calmly expressing how it was for me growing up.

.

Rei, I guess I'm just a little bit confused. What does a reward have to do with love?

[rei]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Rei, I guess I'm just a little bit confused. What does a reward have to do with love?

oh, yeah, i agree with what you implied here - they aren't related. but as i was growing up i got the message that they were.

she is more logical/practical than emotional... she showed me i was loved with material comfort/support and opportunities but no real sense of emotional closeness. i see now this was her natural pattern, based on available resources, but i didn't feel very loved just because she bought me stuff. the emotional level validation is what i feel like i needed that i didn't get. what i did get were many discussions about the value of education, and as a child with child-level resources i interpreted this to mean she would be disappointed if i didn't succeed in that area.

we just talked more. i mentioned this, and she said she would have been disappointed FOR me if i hadn't excelled in academics with the opportunities that open up from that success. but a child is not so good at understanding the difference between disappointed for her and disappointed with her.

it was, and is, my responsibility for misinterpreting the messages she communicated. the result of that was me becoming very hard on myself, but there are ways i could shift those patterns now without focusing on the cause. i guess my emotional self wanted to focus on the cause, in an attempt to bring out the emotional reassurance and feeling of being loved that i didn't really get growing up. it was a massive failure. i see now she is just not wired for expressing love in that way... which makes me really sad

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

...
i see now she is just not wired for expressing love in that way... which makes me really sad

This triggers me - she loves you, yes? And she expresses her love the best way she can. Why would that make you sad?

Have you considered that maybe your expression of your love for her does not come across? If so, what can you do?

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

This triggers me - she loves you, yes? And she expresses her love the best way she can. Why would that make you sad?

Have you considered that maybe your expression of your love for her does not come across? If so, what can you do?

what i meant is i was feeling a big wave of sadness in saying that. i guess, in truly accepting that she isn't wired to express love at the emotional level, it triggers sadness for me because i am resigning myself to accepting it when it's still an unmet need! also, accepting that it is this way is giving myself permission to feel the sadness and frustration at not having that need met.

it triggers sadness for me because it is something i needed rather desperately growing up, didn't get it, and a side effect of that is i neglected my own emotional self and focused on expressing intellectually - but that wasn't being true to my nature. at least i've gotten better at being my authentic self, wired to connect at the emotional level.

except with her, i acknowledge i learned to relate in more practical/logical, less emotional ways in our relationship. basically we express ourselves in more masculine ways, but the emotional me feels a distance there too. and in experiences like this, i attempt to relate on an emotional level and get shut down she has been through a lot, so i understand if she is divorced from her emotional self. but my point here is i do try to show her love too, in the ways that are natural for me, and it doesn't go over well because we are different in how we express it. i also do things to show love the way she has, like material level support and favors and practical sorts of things, so i would hope it comes across.

but it still makes me sad because i haven't felt loved in the way i was wired to experience it. and when i was younger i didn't have the resources to say, 'she shows me love by doing x, even though i feel loved when i experience y i understand this is her way of showing love and i will make myself remember it is a sign of her love for me. i force myself to translate it into love and recognize it as such even if it's not the way i need to feel it.'

this became a massive failure because she felt criticized. i can understand if it came across that way even if i didn't intend to be critical. the pattern i was talking about is just one part of the relationship, but it led to a lot of pain for me. and i could be better at valuing more the ways she did show her love and support, but i sort of feel like it should also be okay if this is a matter of the need not being met in the way i needed it met (the general form of expression, not any rigid specific way of meeting it - it could be met through loving words, more touches of affection, a smile for Christ's sake - a smile is simple enough, and i've rarely even gotten that ).

i guess my dad was the one who showed love through the emotional level, and since he died i didn't get that need met as much. i know she isn't responsible for how i responded to this, but i'm not really comfortable saying it's all my fault either, for needing to have that love shown in a certain way. as an adult, yes, my responsibility. as a child, i don't know if i can say with satisfaction that it's my fault for needing to feel loved on the emotional level.

[marinik]

I have 3 grown daughters -32, 26 and... well one of them almost grownup she is 20. I am sometimes fed up with apologizing for everything I have done that they do not appreciate at one time in their life.

So most of us mothers do the best we can with absolutely no interest but your happiness and wellbeing at heart.

We have our experiences, models, program... value systems... contexts and what ever from where we come, react, steer you and try to help by pushing you often in some direction we believe is good, is right.

In heinsinght my daughters would admit I was right but would seldom forgive me. And that is alright as long as they are happy and satisfied with where they are with their lives. I never forgave my mother either. Not totally anyway.

And yes it was often an educational issue. Today they are PhD's or Md's or double majors... I have no regret. I know that everything that I invested in myself academically has come back to me in so many ways... so this is where I derive my pushy "part"

Forgive or don't forgive, just don't judge before you have your own child. It will all be clear then.

My father would always say that I will get everything back from my kids what I did to them. And I did now my daughter that has her own daughter tells me she understands. I doubt that she has forgiven the "difficult" moments but at least she understands.

We love you - our daughters and just want you to have it better and easier than we did with less strife and hurt. Sorry if we are the ones that hurt you along the way.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Maybe your mother just needs time to think about what you told her. You can't expect a resolution to a conflict like this without giving the other person the time and space to think through the conflict.

Practice acceptance of the way your mother reacted and don't judge her for reacting that way.

thanks, Brutha. i did give her time, and i understand the way she reacted. i wasn't judging her for it, i was just wanting to feel some kind of closure.

i admitted later that i didn't have the resources to navigate the conversation the way i wanted to. it feels like the old crap got stirred up for nothing. what was i thinking...

[rei]

Originally Posted by marinik

I have 3 grown daughters - well one of them almost grownup she is 20. I am sometimes fed up with apologizing for everything I have done that they do not appreciate at one time in their life.

So most of us mothers do the best we can with absolutely no interest but your happiness and wellbeing at heart.

We have our experiences, models, program... value systems... contexts and what ever from where we come, react, steer you and try to help by pushing you often in some direction we believe is good, is right.

In heinsinght my daughters would admit I was right but would seldom forgive me. And that is alright as long as they are happy and satisfied with where they are with their lives. I never forgave my mother either. Not totally anyway.

And yes it was often an educational issue. Today they are PhD's or Md's or double majors... I have no regret. I know that everything that I invested in myself academically has come back to me in so many ways... so this is where I derive my pushy "part"

Forgive or don't forgive, just don't judge before you have your own child. It will all be clear then.

My father would always say that I will get everything back from my kids what I did to them. And I did now my daughter that has her own daughter tells me she understands. I doubt that she has forgiven the "difficult" moments but at least she understands.

We love you - our daughters and just want you to have it better and easier than we did with less strife and hurt. Sorry if we are the ones that hurt you along the way.

thank you for the perspective as a mother. i don't mean to sound like i am judging, i know every mother is doing the best she can.

i admit i don't understand the pushy approach though. i think i would pursue education more willingly and with more joy if i felt inspired to do it, instead of feeling obligated. if i had a child i would probably understand better but i would still try to inspire my child instead of making my child think he or she must do this.

i also get how conveying unconditional positive regard when there are also expectations is really hard. i think i would have been interested in educational success even if i heard the argument for education 30-40% less often.

but i do get that mothers are doing their best. i'm not ungrateful, i just wish i felt more unconditional love.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by rei

but i do get that mothers are doing their best. i'm not ungrateful, i just wish i felt more unconditional love.

We don't think you are less without the education but know from experience you will regret it. And believe me as an HR I know that.

Unconditional love is what we feel but at times we can't let you ride it and choose the easy path. I have never pushed without inspiring them but at times have been even harsh to get my message through.

One more thing that you kids always forget - we are also in some stage in our lives where we feel down or not worthy enough or good enough... loved enough... who knows what your mother is going through. We are just human.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by marinik

...
We love you - our daughters and just want you to have it better and easier than we did with less strife and hurt. Sorry if we are the ones that hurt you along the way.

Marinik, everything in your post resonates with me! My mother used to tell us whenever we rebelled against 'unfair' rules: wait until you have children of your own. Very frustrating at the time, but she was 100% right.

I have made many mistakes myself with my kids. And they will with theirs, if and when.

In the end, love is what counts. Love your kids, love your parents, for what they gave and give you. And forgive yourself and them for all the mistakes.

[rei]

Originally Posted by marinik

We don't think you are less without the education but know from experience you will regret it. And believe me as an HR I know that.

Unconditional love is what we feel but at times we can't let you ride it and choose the easy path. I have never pushed without inspiring them but at times have been even harsh to get my message through.

One more thing that you kids always forget - we are also in some stage in our lives where we feel down or not worthy enough or good enough... loved enough... who knows what your mother is going through. We are just human.

i understand all of this... i know she would not literally think less of me, but i still felt like the love was conditional. if she feels unconditional love about me, okay, but if i don't see that then it's harder to trust it's true. the action and evidence supports being conditionally loved. especially since i am wired to feel loved from warmth shown through the emotional level. i understand, intellectually, buying me things was a sign of love, but it doesn't feel the same. i understand if my perception is off or unfair, but it's how it has felt for me. and this is about my own relationship with my parent, it says nothing about other parents and their children.

i do understand she is human and does her best. i think there have been times when she is going through something herself. since i've become an adult i have tried to be there for her but she hardly ever opens up to me about what she's going through even when i offer to listen. seems she only discusses those things as evidence to go against something i am bringing up, when it is harder for me to know she sees it that way if she doesn't talk about it other times.

i guess she sees me as the child who can't possibly understand, even when i try to take on a role of a friend. she is also fiercely proud and independent so is more likely to sit and suffer instead of reaching out. makes it hard for me to be sure i am considerate of how she is feeling when she won't show me how she's feeling in ways that i will recognize. it's like i must put the hints together, notice her stuff strewn about the house and realize she is depressed. it is harder to do it that way, easier for me if she just comes out with it since my life is not just about her. but i understand how that is very hard for someone with that personality.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

i understand all of this... i know she would not literally think less of me, but i still felt like the love was conditional. if she feels unconditional love about me, okay, but if i don't see that then it's harder to trust it's true. the action and evidence supports being conditionally loved. especially since i am wired to feel loved from warmth shown through the emotional level. i understand, intellectually, buying me things was a sign of love, but it doesn't feel the same. i understand if my perception is off or unfair, but it's how it has felt for me. and this is about my own relationship with my parent, it says nothing about other parents and their children.

Let's assume your mother loves you conditionally.

Basically, you have 2 choices:

- go all victimmy, whine about lack of unconditional love, wallow in negativity and depression over 'what could / should have been', get negative attention from mummy (because it's better than nothing), etc etc etc

- truly accept her for what she can and cannot give. Surround yourself with people who do unconditionally love you. Love unconditionally yourself. Learn what you can from the reationship with your mother. If you have chosen her as a mother before you were born, what did you want to learn from her?

Which choice resonates with you, your values and your purpose in life?

[marinik]

Originally Posted by rei

i do understand she is human and does her best. i think there have been times when she is going through something herself. since i've become an adult i have tried to be there for her but she hardly ever opens up to me about what she's going through even when i offer to listen. seems she only discusses those things as evidence to go against something i am bringing up, when it is harder for me to know she sees it that way if she doesn't talk about it other times.

i guess she sees me as the child who can't possibly understand, even when i try to take on a role of a friend. she is also fiercely proud and independent so is more likely to sit and suffer instead of reaching out. makes it hard for me to be sure i am considerate of how she is feeling when she won't show me how she's feeling in ways that i will recognize. it's like i must put the hints together, notice her stuff strewn about the house and realize she is depressed. it is harder to do it that way, easier for me if she just comes out with it since my life is not just about her. but i understand how that is very hard for someone with that personality.

Some things are hard to share with your children. Many of my friends have a hard time to tell me that they are afraid of menopause... becoming old and not feeling feminin or wanted in a sexual way. Many women are going through a loss of love or a midlife crisis of their husband feeling inadequate and the ones to be blamed for the end or their marriage...what ever. At work new generations are breathing down their necks full of energy and ambition and they - the mothers are a bit tired of everything... so many things. These are not subjects you can easily discus with you children.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Let's assume your mother loves you conditionally.

Basically, you have 2 choices:

- go all victimmy, whine about lack of unconditional love, wallow in negativity and depression over 'what could / should have been', get negative attention from mummy (because it's better than nothing), etc etc etc

- truly accept her for what she can and cannot give. Surround yourself with people who do unconditionally love you. Love unconditionally yourself. Learn what you can from the reationship with your mother. If you have chosen her as a mother before you were born, what did you want to learn from her?

Which choice resonates with you, your values and your purpose in life?

i have accepted her for what she can and cannot give. it may not sound that way but i have.

i'm not trying to play the victim here, or wallow. but i AM trying to acknowledge the tenuous process of accepting a vulnerable part of myself and trying to be gentle with recognizing that there was an unmet need here. i am trying to acknowledge the unmet need without sounding like a victim. but it's a delicate part of me, and it's taking a lot of strength to admit this is how it felt.

i'm sure she did the best she could, that doesn't really negate the way i feel like a need wasn't met. sad, but true. the conversation i initiated today, i now see it was an attempt to meet that need and get emotional level reassurance. it was a massive failure and now i feel like i stirred up old crap for nothing. that isn't feeling very good. i'm not one who initiates pointless conflict. it ended up seeming rather pointless though.

i am starting to regret posting here, as i feel like everyone or almost everyone is responding with their own bias. sure, that usually happens but it looks more prominent here. i don't deny that my mother has done a lot for me and wants me to succeed even more than she did. i am not ungrateful about all she did hoping to make my life a success. however, the massive amount of things she did on my behalf - don't meet that friggin' unmet need! i do my best to meet it myself, but i think it is only human for me to be a bit aggravated that the need wasn't met when i always hear about how parents' love for their children is unconditional and i always hear about how mothers are so warm and nurturing. well, i feel jipped, and if i sound whiny and victimy so be it because this is the child within me talking now anyway.

i guess i am still frustrated that my need to feel loved on the emotional level didn't come from my parent. i have offered that emotional level love for myself, but it's still frustrating that i had to compensate for it.

[rei]

Originally Posted by marinik

Some things are hard to share with your children. Many of my friends have a hard time to tell me that they are afraid of menopause... becoming old and not feeling feminin or wanted in a sexual way. Many women are going through a loss of love or a midlife crisis of their husband feeling inadequate and the ones to be blamed for the end or their marriage...what ever. At work new generations are breathing down their necks full of energy and ambition and they - the mothers are a bit tired of everything... so many things. These are not subjects you can easily discus with you children.

i totally understand this. and i can put myself in my mother's shoes and see how everything she did and does makes total sense. i can see how she was acting in my best interest, or what she thought to be my best interest.

i can use empathy to see it from her point of view, but unfortunately, that doesn't do much in this case to resolve the feeling that this need for emotional level demonstration of love wasn't met. i put on her frame, and when i take it off i still feel this way, even when i consider how she showed love in the ways she could show it.

[marinik]

I am sorry if you fell we don't understand you. Just wanted to give you another perspective.

I feel the same about my mother. I never felt loved unconditionally! Today I am taking care of her in her very old age. I resent that at times. But it is as it is. I understand her but did never really forgive as I told you.

Sorry again rei, never intended to undermine your experience as something you have the right to!

[rei]

Originally Posted by marinik

I am sorry if you fell we don't understand you. Just wanted to give you another perspective.

I feel the same about my mother. I never felt loved unconditionally! Today I am taking care of her in her very old age. I resent that at times. But it is as it is. I understand her but did never really forgive as I told you.

Sorry again rei, never intended to undermine your experience as something you have the right to!

thank you very much for this. i understand these other perspectives, and i can be empathetic enough to understand how it is to be a parent, enough to see that i'm probably coming across as an ungrateful brat here. she even said it sounds like i need a real problem. when so many children don't get what i have gotten, i understand that sentiment, but it still makes me feel like she is saying i don't have a right to be upset about it or instead of being upset about it, i should just stuff that down and count my blessings.

again, this is not the emotional level reassurance i was trying to get here, through an admittedly disastrous, clumsy, miserably-doomed attempt.

it is not saying, 'i'm sorry it felt like that for you, even though i did my best.' i hear "you need a real problem" as 'you ungrateful brat, you don't have a right to feel how you feel! or even if you do have a right to feel that way, you should just compare your standard of living to the kids in Africa and get happy!'

the part i underlined made me very emotional to read... it is a perfect example of what what i often haven't gotten from my own mother - direct, verbal confirmation that my own experience and perspective are valid. so, it was healing for me to see that, thank you.

[Angela]

rei, am I understanding you correctly -- you're not getting the feedback here in this thread that you feel you should have had, or that you most ideally wanted to get?

[Plato]

When I read the title my initial reaction was: the best way to handle it is to not handle it.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by rei

the part i underlined made me very emotional to read... it is a perfect example of what what i often haven't gotten from my own mother - direct, verbal confirmation that my own experience and perspective are valid. so, it was healing for me to see that, thank you.

You are very welcome if it helped! Maybe we as parents feel that kids are ungrateful because we know all we have given and gave up for them.

Just today I had discussion with my husband about a car I wanted to buy. It is so funny when I started to almost scream (and I don't scream, not that kind) that it was turn for us to indulge in our own wishes after 3 masters degrees and 2 PhD's... bla bla bla... my husband looked so surprised at me as I stated my arguments for wanting a specific car I said "when will it be our turn? I make so much money and the only thing a think of is how much is this tuition... and then this one..." Bit ashamed but true!