Learning New Languages!

[Ximen]

Have you ever considered learning a new language besides your mother tongue? I think as wise men say, lots of the conflicts and clashes among peoples of different cultures is just because they don't understand each others languages while saying the same things (Yes I know, it's a little bit deeper than that but it still makes sense)

Besides being a good challenge, learning a new language is a key to a whole new world. Since it's not just the language but the literature, TV, Songs, culture in general, new business opportunities and last but not least the chance to get acquanted with new people.

I like exploring other cultures and getting a taste of their literature and music. I just love it when I get the ironies and jokes made in a foreign language.

What's your perspective on learning new languages? Do you know any second/third/nth language(s) and if the answer is yes what's your level of fluency?

[aelle]

Plenty of posters on this board are not native English speakers

Besides my French mother tongue, I speak English (duh) (fluent), Japanese and some Spanish (both business proficiency). I am studying Korean and know tidbits of German and Dutch. I love languages.

[Ximen]

That's just awesome! You are one hell of a genius linguist I have heard mastering Japanese is harder than getting a PhD!!

P.S. For the record, I know what linguist means outside popular culture

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Ximen

Besides being a good challenge, learning a new language is a key to a whole new world. Since it's not just the language but the literature, TV, Songs, culture in general, new business opportunities and last but not least the chance to get acquanted with new people.

It's even more than that. In itself, learning a new language allows you to understand how the people speaking it feel, live and think. Languages are powerful. They reflect our mindset and also influence it. Thinking in one language is not the same as thinking in another language. Each new language I learn is like a new personality, a new degree of freedom. I totally love languages.

Aside from French, I speak German fluently. My Spanish was once fluent and is now very rusty, as I haven't spoken it in over ten years. I want to recover it some time soon! English is my fourth one, it's still far from being perfect! I especially need to work on my pronunciation a lot. I'm currently learning Norwegian, though not very actively at the moment. The next language I want to learn after that is Russian. <3

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

It's even more than that. In itself, learning a new language allows you to understand how the people speaking it feel, live and think. Languages are powerful. They reflect our mindset and also influence it. Thinking in one language is not the same as thinking in another language. Each new language I learn is like a new personality, a new degree of freedom. I totally love languages.

Aside from French, I speak German fluently. My Spanish was once fluent and is now very rusty, as I haven't spoken it in over ten years. I want to recover it some time soon! English is my fourth one, it's still far from being perfect! I especially need to work on my pronunciation a lot. I'm currently learning Norwegian, though not very actively at the moment. The next language I want to learn after that is Russian. <3

Oh you are adorable. For someone who has acquired English as a fourth language your command of English seems to be REALLY something, so I wonder "What does she mean by fluent exactly?"

I guess you are now writing poems in German, publishing newspapers in French and teaching rhetoric in Norwegian ha? Just a guess lol

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Ximen

Oh you are adorable. For someone who has acquired English as a fourth language your command of English seems to be REALLY something, so I wonder "What does she mean by fluent exactly?"

By "fluent", I mean "as good as if it were my mother tongue". My goal is to speak every language I learn so good that native speakers don't notice that I'm not one.

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

By "fluent", I mean "as good as if it were my mother tongue". My goal is to speak every language I learn so good that native speakers don't notice that I'm not one.

We share this in common. It's (sometimes) something near to impossible though. Take English for instance. There are practically speaking, an infinite number of slang terms that a random non-native speaker has yet to master at any given moment in his/her life.

The situation in other languages is even worse. Arabic is a good example. Every arab country has it's own dialect which are distinct so much so that these dialects are mutually unintelligible by their Arab speakers. One has to master both the standard arabic and the different dialects. So that can be a very difficult and time-consuming task at times.

[Ximen]

and I am wondering how on earth one can become native-like (in terms of fluency) in Japanese?! Oh, even the mere thought of it gives me a headache! lol

[Rose of Cairo]

I agree. But native speakers don't know all of the slang words and don't master all of the different dialects of their own language either. They usually just know what's common in their geographic area and cultural level.

I have studied French literature and language at University and know a lot about French etymology and stylistics that most native French speakers don't know. And I bet I still don't master the French language perfectly. There are still words I don't know, connotations I'm not aware of... As for French dialects in other countries, I barely know about them. It's impossible to master a language perfectly.

My aim is not to be perfect, it's just to be as good as an average, educated native speaker could be.

The challenge for me is definitely pronunciation. There are languages that I will never be able to pronounce correctly. I will need to work A LOT to make my English accent-free.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

The challenge for me is definitely pronunciation. There are languages that I will never be able to pronounce correctly. I will need to work A LOT to make my English accent-free.

This is my big challenge as well. I've reached a point where non native speakers usually cannot identify my birth language, which is great to me! Usually there comes a point in the conversation where they ask me, "You've got this odd, very non-distinctive, international-school like accent. Are you... Canadian?"

My boyfriend is also a non native English speaker, and although his grammar, vocab and elocution are on par with mine, he has a thick Scottish accent ( ). As a result, he passes for native most of the time when I don't.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Ximen

and I am wondering how on earth one can become native-like (in terms of fluency) in Japanese?! Oh, even the mere thought of it gives me a headache! lol

Japanese is really not much harder than other languages. Some are easier to get started on, but if you want to go beyond a beginner level, the recipe is the same every time: invest massive amounts of time immersed, actively using the language, and actively improving.

I'm nowhere near fluency in Japanese, by the way

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by aelle

Japanese is really not much harder than other languages. Some are easier to get started on, but if you want to go beyond a beginner level, the recipe is the same every time: invest massive amounts of time immersed, actively using the language, and actively improving.

I'm nowhere near fluency in Japanese, by the way

A friend of my friend (!) who has recently won a scholarship to study in Japan says that the alphabet is very hard to master (he says it's called kanji, right?) I am not sure but as far as I can remember he said there are over one thousand kanjis; correct me if I'm talking pure nonsense

[st33med]

I find learning languages is a pain. I have been in Spanish classes for three years in high school, yet I couldn't talk to you in the tongue nor understand the fast speaking dialect. I forget most of what I learned the year before and irregular forms of the verbs throw me off.

What do you guys do to learn a language?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Ximen

A friend of my friend (!) who has recently won a scholarship to study in Japan says that the alphabet is very hard to master (he says it's called kanji, right?) I am not sure but as far as I can remember he said there are over one thousand kanjis; correct me if I'm talking pure nonsense

Very close Kanjis are the Chinese ideograms that the Japanese adopted ; they are used along with 2 other entirely phonetical (and therefore much easier) writing systems. Japanese school children must know just under 2000 of them by the time they graduate from high school, but college-educated people may know several thousands more.
Different people have different ease in learning them ; for visual learners it's great, for kinesthetics learners (people who learn with their body) it can also be an advantage, you just write line after line of them and rely on your hand to remember it. For me they never felt that much harder to memorize than a new word of vocabulary.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by st33med

I find learning languages is a pain. I have been in Spanish classes for three years in high school, yet I couldn't talk to you in the tongue nor understand the fast speaking dialect. I forget most of what I learned the year before and irregular forms of the verbs throw me off.

What do you guys do to learn a language?

I had that when I was studying German in middle school. The grammar was torture, the culture didn't seem attractive. It completely clicked when I actually went to Germany and made awesome friends.

A language is made to communicate first and foremost ; if you have no particular connection or interest in the people or the culture, it's hard to stay motivated to study.

[st33med]

Originally Posted by aelle

I had that when I was studying German in middle school. The grammar was torture, the culture didn't seem attractive. It completely clicked when I actually went to Germany and made awesome friends.

A language is made to communicate first and foremost ; if you have no particular connection or interest in the people or the culture, it's hard to stay motivated to study.

I knew I should have studied French.

I go to a summer camp where there are plenty of French kids from France. They often speak in their native tongue and I have always wanted tontalk to a girl or two.

(Truthfully, most of the men are complete jerks, so I would not care talking to them often )

And I am told to take Spanish because it's 'easier' even though I wanted to talk French to friends at summer camp. And now I am stuck with spanish since my diploma wants me to take either two years of two languages or three years of one language.

I was in Spanish in my sophmore year, so I have to finish this class.

There are no friends I know of that speak Spanish and I would like to be friends with here in the US. Most of them have poor values (smoking, talking like a gangster) that I would never fit with.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by aelle

A language is made to communicate first and foremost ; if you have no particular connection or interest in the people or the culture, it's hard to stay motivated to study.

I agree. Love for the people and culture helps. Empathy helps a lot too. That's how I learn. I don't really study in a formal way. I just try to talk to the people and think the way they think, feel the way they feel, etc. Even better if I can entirely live the way they live. Then I automatically end up speaking the way they speak too. This way you pick up on the mentality and idiomatic expressions way faster, and it's fun. The downside is that I need to be in the country or at least to have close contact with native speakers. I don't do well when I just take classes. Bleh!

[st33med]

The USA does not have that much people of different languages besides Spanish, sadly.

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I agree. Love for the people and culture helps. Empathy helps a lot too. That's how I learn. I don't really study in a formal way. I just try to talk to the people and think the way they think, feel the way they feel, etc. Even better if I can entirely live the way they live. Then I automatically end up speaking the way they speak too. This way you pick up on the mentality and idiomatic expressions way faster, and it's fun. The downside is that I need to be in the country or at least to have close contact with native speakers. I don't do well when I just take classes. Bleh!

Well that reminds me of a Tony Robins book I read a couple years ago called "Unlimited Power" (That was the first and the last book I read from him). I guess he called his method NLP (Well, It's been a long time) He claimed to have mastered different skills by imitating everything the other party did (even things like breathing etc) I don't fully recall the material but I found your approach to be in the same mood with what he described in that book. Even then, I was highly skeptical of his method, but different things work for different people

[Rose of Cairo]

Interesting! Never read anything by Tony Robbins. But I get the idea. I don't go as far as to imitate the breathing though.

You need to use your strengths. Empathy is a natural skill of mine, so this is easy for me. If you're not an empath, other methods will work better for you.

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Interesting! Never read anything by Tony Robbins. But I get the idea. I don't go as far as to imitate the breathing though.

You need to use your strengths. Empathy is a natural skill of mine, so this is easy for me. If you're not an empath, other methods will work better for you.

mm..If by empath you mean telepath, no I am not (and don't have a clue either)

[newmark]

If you're a telepath (and very good at it) you don't need other languages.

I can speak English very well! And Chinese quite well. I'm learning Portuguese at the moment.

[Ximen]

I can speak 3 languages myself but with different levels of grasp. I am also fluent in at least 2 distinct local dialects (learning new dialects are enjoyable too)

[newmark]

Originally Posted by Ximen

I can speak 3 languages myself but with different levels of grasp. I am also fluent in at least 2 distinct local dialects (learning new dialects are enjoyable too)

Two local dialects? Are dialects different from languages?

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by newmark

Two local dialects? Are dialects different from languages?

Yup. For instance, Arabic is one language but it has at least 18 dialects.

[newmark]

My experience of dialects is that they are actually languages without recognition, but I know nothing of Arabic dialects.

[Ximen]

Originally Posted by newmark

My experience of dialects is that they are actually languages without recognition, but I know nothing of Arabic dialects.

They are varieties of a common language but sometimes they become way different to the classic/standard language and they may include a lot of distinct vocabulary. They are also very much tied to the sub-culture they belong to and therefore provide one with the opportunity to explore subcultures.

P.S. but I do agree that the distinction is a li'l bit blurry. Sometimes people argue whether they speak a dialect or a language. Kurdish is an example.

[Angelique]

English (American) is my main language but I grew up speaking Spanish (Mexican), too. I'm fluent in both. I really really want to learn French. I only know a few phrases here and there right now, but knowing Spanish makes it somewhat easier to make sense.

@Rose of Cairo and @st33med: I'm game to speak with either one of you if you ever want to practice your Spanish. Just PM me if you're interested.

[openeyes]

I studied French and Spanish in grade school, Spanish and Mandarin in college. I loved the change grammar wise with Mandarin compared to the romance languages, and enjoyed dissecting the traditional characters to find the meaning within them. It's been a couple years since I've studied any language seriously, but sometime I'm apt to go back and deepen what I've learned, aiming to get beyond intermediate, and maybe try American Sign Language and a computer language. My mom and brother both majored in computer science, but I've yet to get into any sort of programming.

[Snorkledorf]

I began studying Japanese 25 years ago, and have been living here almost 20. Passed the level 2 Japanese Language Proficiency Test in 1992, then failed level 1 in 1996, and haven't tried taking it again since then. So maybe I'm up there by now, maybe not. I have to admit that I've been slacking off recently on actually improving my skills, but I'm using it every day. Online I use mostly English, offline mostly Japanese.

I studied French in middle school and high school and got fair to middling grades. Never had a reason to use it, so I never got good. With Japanese though I had endless TV shows to motivate me, so I surprised myself with my continual progress.

I've played around with studying Korean, Esperanto, and Chinese over the past decade or so, but again with no actual real-life use for any of them I've found it hard to improve. Motivation is so important to learning a language. Even with a language like Korean which is close enough to Japanese that it feels like I'm getting it for half price, I'd still at least need some cool TV shows that I was into at the very least.

If I were living in the US I'd so be studying Spanish. Unless I were near the Canadian border in which case I'd be doing French right this time. Languages are so cool!