[Adult] Poll: Are you interested in BDSM?

[oscardelben]

Are you interested in BDSM?

[aelle]

Took me long enough to get power plays out of my bedroom, I have no desire to bring them back in.

[Gabo]

Reading Steve's descriptions of each role, I find the idea of either of them repulsing.
But that's just me. It'll be interesting to see how Steve applies conscious growth to this subject.

[nutella2]

I'm not at all interested right now. But I'd quite likely be interested if it's framed within a personal growth perspective, because it'll probably challenge my preconceptions and make me think about stuff in a new way and I like that!

[Jack Christopher]

The poll is probably too early. I realize it's just meant to gauge interest. But I think at this point most people see "BSDM" as porno-hypersex-beating people-with-chains. Won't be surprised if it continues to skew towards "No".

My thought is people actually are already like in roleplaying (even sexual roleplaying or BDSM) but don't realize it yet.

[beautyscientist]

Steve is quoting Kinsey's numbers for interest in BDSM, but I am sure there is a more recent bit of research putting the figures at 25% for females and 20% for males. This was done by monitoring arousal after exposure to images so ought to be pretty reliable. It certainly matches my personal experience pretty closely.

I know I will be asked for the reference, but I cannot find it. If anyone does recognise what I am talking about I would love to be reminded.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by Jack Christopher

The poll is probably too early. I realize it's just meant to gauge interest. But I think at this point most people see "BSDM" as porno-hypersex-beating people-with-chains. Won't be surprised if it continues to skew towards "No".

My thought is people actually are already like in roleplaying (even sexual roleplaying or BDSM) but don't realize it yet.

Last year's focus for Steve was already non vanilla relationships, and there are tons of non vanilla, non heteronormative people (and non vanilla-, non heteronormative-friendly) on these boards who bear no judgment on BDSM (hi!) Doesn't mean they are interested in it though.

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by Jack Christopher

The poll is probably too early. I realize it's just meant to gauge interest. But I think at this point most people see "BSDM" as porno-hypersex-beating people-with-chains. Won't be surprised if it continues to skew towards "No".

My thought is people actually are already like in roleplaying (even sexual roleplaying or BDSM) but don't realize it yet.

Couldn't agree more. Seriously, to the people who answered no - you never like to be spanked? Or have your hair pulled? Or have a guy tweak your nipples lightly? (heh) Or be told what to do on occasion? (or vice versa to all that) Cuz that all counts, it's not just whips 'n' chains...

[blossom]

Maybe it's the label of "wierdo", or the stigma of "mental illness", that has alot of people unwilling to admit to enjoying these softer playforms?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Couldn't agree more. Seriously, to the people who answered no - you never like to be spanked? Or have your hair pulled? Or have a guy tweak your nipples lightly? (heh) Or be told what to do on occasion? (or vice versa to all that) Cuz that all counts, it's not just whips 'n' chains...

yum, yum, gimmie some.

really i only have interest in this playful, light variety. maybe some handcuff play that i could actually get out of if i wanted to (Gerald's Game? no thank you). and some candle wax play. (i don't like to have my nipples twisted but i do like to have them pinched, and it is okay if it is a hard pinch... playful biting is fun too.)

my interest in this would also depend on the partner, since i would not really find it interesting or enjoyable to do this with someone who has a warped view of women and wants to mistreat them in such a way. but i don't think i would have such a person in my orbit anyway.

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by rei

my interest in this would also depend on the partner, since i would not really find it interesting or enjoyable to do this with someone who has a warped view of women and wants to mistreat them in such a way. but i don't think i would have such a person in my orbit anyway.

Oh, definitely. I find guys who literally view women as less human than men or who are incredibly misogynistic to be complete turn-offs. I even knew a guy who talked about how his girlfriend would give him a blow-job on demand and I was completely disgusted with him. There's nothing mutual about that...

But if a guy respects you completely and you know that deep down inside, then exploring this is fun precisely because it's consensual and respectful. I could never be submissive to a man who assumed I should be that way just because I'm a woman.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by blossom

Maybe it's the label of "wierdo", or the stigma of "mental illness", that has alot of people unwilling to admit to enjoying these softer playforms?

I think traditional psychology considers it sexual deviation and has perpetuated that story. Many people just do missionary style and call it a night, I think

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I think traditional psychology considers it sexual deviation and has perpetuated that story. Many people just do missionary style and call it a night, I think

Traditional psychology considers D/s like Steve is explaining to be totally normal and the majority.

Steve's description is an extreme version though. But I mean generally speaking psychologists recognize dominance and submission as being the most common relationship that exists, not just romantic relationship but most relationships. (Not the ideal relationship at all - just the most common)

Most friends for instance - usually one friend is dominant and the other submissive. In a group of friends, there will be a dominance hierarchy with a top-dog and then a pecking order. Everyone lower on the pecking order is sub to the people above.

The sadism/masochism/bondage/discipline is the stuff that is deviant. But submission and domination is totally standard and normal in the animal kingdom, in primitive societies, and in typical social relationships.

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by yossarian

But submission and domination is totally standard and normal in the animal kingdom, in primitive societies, and in typical social relationships.

Is it weird that I'm dominant in the overall relationship but submissive in the bedroom?

[blossom]

I see that as you just balancing out both extremes! It isn't wierd...and I've known others like you.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Is it weird that I'm dominant in the overall relationship but submissive in the bedroom?

if it is weird then i am weird too.

i don't like to be able to dominate everything though. i like a man who won't take crap from me. who will put me in my place now and then.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Traditional psychology considers D/s like Steve is explaining to be totally normal and the majority. The sadism/masochism/bondage/discipline is the stuff that is deviant. But submission and domination is totally standard and normal in the animal kingdom, in primitive societies, and in typical social relationships.

Could be, but I was responding about BDSM as a whole, not just D/s

Steve's description is an extreme version though

Extreme? Really? Who decides what the extremes are but the partners?

But I mean generally speaking psychologists recognize dominance and submission as being the most common relationship that exists, not just romantic relationship but most relationships. (Not the ideal relationship at all - just the most common)

Most friends for instance - usually one friend is dominant and the other submissive. In a group of friends, there will be a dominance hierarchy with a top-dog and then a pecking order. Everyone lower on the pecking order is sub to the people above.

Consensually and consciously agreeing to role play D and S is not same as the social dominance/submissiveness that already exists in society.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Is it weird that I'm dominant in the overall relationship but submissive in the bedroom?

I think this is the most common relationship pattern for our generation.

In my opinion, you would prefer to be submissive overall but it is not practical because there are few guys our age who know how to be dominant.

Imagine you were in a relationship with the most attractive man you can think of - Daniel Craig or Johnny Depp or Christian Bale or whoever.

Imagine how he treats you in day to day life. Does he act dominant or submissive?

That pretty much tells you what your ideal relationship is. Your current relationship is your actual relationship which is a compromise based on what is realistic. It's unrealistic to hold out for Brad Pitt. You have to settle. Which is healthy.

But, if your boyfriend is up for it, maybe you could experiment with him taking charge more. He has the testosterone -- he's just been taught not to use it. (It sounds to me like you coaxed it out of him in bed, and now he is comfortable using it without your prompting. That's called "masculine development" or something )

[yossarian]

I wasn't attacking your thought Midas, I was just expanding on it. I agree with everything you said.

[MidasGirl]

I didn't think you were. I wasn't mad or anything. I should have used smileys

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by yossarian

In my opinion, you would prefer to be submissive overall but it is not practical because there are few guys our age who know how to be dominant.

That's an intriguing thought for me. I mean, I like getting things my way, and I don't *really* think I'd like to be submissive...but another part of me does wonder what that'd be like.

I get so tired of all your talk of settling, though! That's not how I like to think of my life. I've noticed that the males in my life are much more blunt about their situations than the females in many situations...I don't understand how that attitude doesn't drive you boys crazy.

I think I'll test-drive your theory, though. Although my boyfriend is INCREDIBLY indecisive, so this may be a challenge for both of us...

[yossarian]

Settling is often associated with failure, and failure is uncomfortable.

But we all settle all the time every day. Being able to settle is crucial for mental health! In fact it may be one of the most important things.

If you can learn to be content with the settlements, with compromise, with reality, to me that is pretty much enlightenment.

Just because you "settled" for your boyfriend instead of dating Brad Pitt does not mean you don't love him. Also, consider that as time goes on you can help him become a better person and vica versa. This is the essence of life!

[Liz Caitlin]

So Yossarian, I have a question for you...do you think women are naturally submissive, if we're speaking generally? Do you think most women lean toward submissiveness? I am genuinely curious here, there will be no snark from me if that's what you think. You just express yourself exceptionally well & I'd love to hear what you have to say on this.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Couldn't agree more. Seriously, to the people who answered no - you never like to be spanked? Or have your hair pulled? Or have a guy tweak your nipples lightly? (heh) Or be told what to do on occasion? (or vice versa to all that) Cuz that all counts, it's not just whips 'n' chains...

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

Is it weird that I'm dominant in the overall relationship but submissive in the bedroom?

It's totally sexy.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Liz Caitlin

So Yossarian, I have a question for you...do you think women are naturally submissive, if we're speaking generally? Do you think most women lean toward submissiveness? I am genuinely curious here, there will be no snark from me if that's what you think. You just express yourself exceptionally well & I'd love to hear what you have to say on this.

I think humans exist on a bell curve. I think a large percentage of women are born with biology that predisposes them to enjoy submissiveness. I think a minority of women are born with genes that predispose them to enjoy being dominant in their relationships.

I think it's biological and evolutionarily advantageous. I think enjoying domination is caused by high androgen levels, and enjoying submission is caused by low androgen levels, everything else being equal.

(The big exceptions are when people go through abnormal experiences, especially in childhood. This is where fetishes are born. So a guy may have really high testosterone levels and typical male genes, but in childhood is exposed to something that makes his brain associate submission with pleasure. These unique neuropathways give him a lifelong enjoyment of submission. And it could be coupled with sex or food or anything. There are people who fetishize watching grass grow.)

[Liz Caitlin]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

It's totally sexy.

Glad you think so!

[blossom]

Originally Posted by yossarian

I think humans exist on a bell curve. I think a large percentage of women are born with biology that predisposes them to enjoy submissiveness. I think a minority of women are born with genes that predispose them to enjoy being dominant in their relationships.

I think it's biological and evolutionarily advantageous. I think enjoying domination is caused by high androgen levels, and enjoying submission is caused by low androgen levels, everything else being equal.

(The big exceptions are when people go through abnormal experiences, especially in childhood. This is where fetishes are born. So a guy may have really high testosterone levels and typical male genes, but in childhood is exposed to something that makes his brain associate submission with pleasure. These unique neuropathways give him a lifelong enjoyment of submission. And it could be coupled with sex or food or anything. There are people who fetishize watching grass grow.)

Have you read Venus in Furs? I think this character is an example of what you just stated.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

It's totally sexy.

I propose an experiment

Imagine that Liz removes the part where she says she is dominant, replaces it with something neutral, and instead just says:

Originally Posted by Liz Lemon

Couldn't agree more. Seriously, to the people who answered no - you never like to be spanked? Or have your hair pulled? Or have a guy tweak your nipples lightly? (heh) Or be told what to do on occasion? (or vice versa to all that) Cuz that all counts, it's not just whips 'n' chains...

Is it weird that I love strawberries but I'm submissive in the bedroom?

Is this new Liz...

(a) more sexy than before
(b) less sexy than before
(c) the same amount of sexy as before

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by blossom

Have you read Venus in Furs? I think this character is an example of what you just stated.

No I haven't but I'll check it out. I <3 books. And wikipedia makes it sound good.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by yossarian

No I haven't but I'll check it out. I <3 books. And wikipedia makes it sound good.

Basically the guy was abused by his aunt as a child, and he feared her temper as she would whip him regularly, and she always wore cloaks that were fur trimmed. When he became a man, he was aroused by women who acted as tyrants towards him and wore fur neck cloaks!