Becoming an alpha female

[joelr]

Do women consider the "Alpha male" to be a positive trait?
It works well with chimpanzees.

Last I heard although the majority does enjoy confidence, attractiveness, and high financial staus - which is often associated with alpha - it's far more important to possess the ability to compromise, to discuss feelings and to be sensitive. Traits associated with beta. Aggression and disregard for others is also a part of alpha traits.

To say alpha males all end up as an overweight grumpy guy who sucks at communication and has the spiritual development of a stick, would be too much of a generalization. But it seems like alpha isn't the best long term choice based on what is needed for relationship skills.

[blossom]

From what you just wrote it does seem that beta characteristics would be more appealing in the long run.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

But what do you call the person perceived as attacking and demeaning you?

A project.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I'm not minimizing your personal painful past experience, but it's different than societal and generational pain.

Sure, it's hard to draw the parallel. All I was pointing out was that it's not a source of healing to embrace name-calling. Cosby decided not to glue himself to the ground staring at the past, and everyone disagrees with him. The leaders of a society have a responsibility to confront and assauge pain, yes, but also to move their society past it. Near as I can tell based on very, very spotty information, black leaders haven't done this. They seemed to buy into half the conspiracy theories about Obama being assassinated: at a time when they had an opportunity to exhort and empower their followers, they said, "BE AFRAID!"

Chinese people don't go around calling themselves chinks. Koreans don't go around calling themselves gooks. Why not? Isn't this the same case? Is it different merely because of scale? Is it different because of the timing? Is it different because stories haven't been told about its horrors over and over again? Is it because they didn't lose their language or cultural heritage, such that they have to build up a new one based on their former oppressors? A class of White Americans do call themselves rednecks, and I've noticed those who do are generally in the same boat as the blacks: the bottom rung of society.

Yes. There is a pain that has echoed down the generations. We should commemorate and acknowledge that it happened, that it was a bad thing, and use it as a justification for why similar events should be halted before they reach the same level. But pain is meant to be transient. You aren't supposed to spread it around until every member of your society and generation lives and breathes it; you're supposed to recognize it where it exists and help people heal themselves of it.

Celebrating a life in the ghetto with your brothas in da hood is about as empowering as giving a man a gun. That is to say, it is very empowering. A very disempowering kind of power, that empowers people to create stagnancy and death. Which they have.

[brendannz]

[QUOTE=MidasGirl;464408]

I'm not sure why you ask me if I'd be proud to be considered a *****.........why?

Was just asking for fun, really..

Why is ***** any different than when men are called dogs?

True, I never was offended by being called b-dawg

Why the negative load associated with it? My guess is that, because men have used that word to control women's emotions.

I don't know, but the same could probably be said about other swear words. Why would anyone be offended really by any word that was used, it's just the intentions behind it that could be offensive..

Although I suppose there isn't an equivalent word for male dog so that's probably why ***** became a derogative swear word.. The equivalent insulting word for a male would be a 'pig' I guess.

Or 'bastard', so a man needs a legitimate mother to be a decent person, or something like that **shrugs shoulders**

[cylon]

I think the problem is dogs. We're people. We're not like dogs. Women are like cats though.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by cylon

I think the problem is dogs. We're people. We're not like dogs. Women are like cats though.

"A man has more in common with a male dog than he does with a human female" - Jack Nicholson

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

Women are like cats though.

Maybe when it comes to pudding.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by brendannz

"A man has more in common with a male dog than he does with a human female" - Jack Nicholson

Lol. I think he meant dogs are a man's best friend though. At least I hope so.

Then again, Jack is never with a woman who is even half his age, so listen to him.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by cylon

Lol. I think he meant dogs are a man's best friend though. At least I hope so.

Then again, Jack is never with a woman who is even half his age, so listen to him.

Yeah, I dunno, I just thought it was pretty funny that he said that. Not really a big fan, but I think he's awesome at Lakers games, at least..

[blossom]

Well...they both scratch their balls alot

[Andrew Gubb]

Check out this site: How to Be a Sexy Alpha Female by Tiffany Lardomita

I really like this lady. She is a very positive person and has a lot to give. She's also into teaching about relationships and sexuality, so she could be what you need.

Andrew

[blossom]

That is a great site Andrew...thanks
She's got the goods allright!

[Coffeesmurf]

I think the term 'beta' is generally somewhat misleading.

In biology, a beta male is a male looking to replace the alpha male. If the alpha male became weak enough, he would fight him and take his place as alpha. Omega male is probably more fitting, since it refers to males at the bottom of the hierarchy.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Omega male is probably more fitting, since it refers to males at the bottom of the hierarchy.

I prefer "human male".

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I prefer "human male".

Now there's a good label.

[The Unconquered]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I prefer "human male".

Originally Posted by Angela

Now there's a good label.

I don't get it. Is this a joke about the inferiority of men, the inferiority of the human race, both, or neither?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

I don't get it. Is this a joke about the inferiority of men, the inferiority of the human race, both, or neither?

It's a broader, less limiting label of identity, that's all. There's a lot more space of freedom in thinking of yourself as a 'human" than there is in believing yourself to be an "alpha" or "beta" or "*****."

[The Unconquered]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's a broader, less limiting label of identity, that's all. There's a lot more space of freedom in thinking of yourself as a 'human" than there is in believing yourself to be an "alpha" or "beta" or "*****."

Ah, I see. I prefer to be called "God", but it's the same difference, and just as accurate.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by The Unconquered

Ah, I see. I prefer to be called "God", but it's the same difference, and just as accurate.

[Angela]

...of another reason labeling yourself or someone else as "alpha" or "*****" or "dog person" or "chewie chewbacca" is a dumb thing to do, in my opinion.

When you assign a label of identity onto someone else, it doesn't mean anything at all about that person; it only limits you in your ability to freely and consciously relate to the person as anything else but. Your interaction with that person -- and actually with people as a species -- is restricted to the strategies you've got for surviving or coping with "alphas" or "bitches" or whatever. You're not making any positive difference for the "alpha" or the "*****," and you're not growing any deeper or more powerful inner resources by assigning those labels; you're just keeping yourself small.

For instance, if you believe there are bitches out there in the world -- bad ladies who must not be engaged with -- then your only way of coping and surviving this world that contains bitches is to avoid engaging with the bitches. Your scope of living is limited to areas in which there's no engagement with bitches. And if you don't like alphas, your only way of dealing with this world that has alphas in it is to avoid them, or maybe to fight or resist them. Very limiting approach to relating with other aspects of yourself, in my view: avoiding, fighting, resisting. It's like living as a caveman -- perpetually in freeze, fight or flight response; never fully free to evolve into the limitless capacity you have for experiencing others as magnificent human beings, all doing the best they can with the resources they have available, just like you.

Of course, sometimes people act in ways that don't work well for you -- a woman may say something nasty, or a man may try to assert power over you -- but that doesn't mean that Who They Are is ***** or alpha, unless you choose that meaning (and that's just you). It can also mean that the person is acting in a particular way, and it's striking you in a particular way, in a given moment. You are free to change your own state so that it strikes you in a way that works better (switch your perspective), or you are free to act in a way that may have that person feeling better and behaving more effectively hermself, or you are free to notice that the person habitually acts this way and you can use or develop strategies for making a difference in the relationship, including avoiding them, if that's appropriate. But avoiding them in that case would be conscious response as a temporary tactic, not a reactive "policy" in the face of encountering someone to whom you assign that label. It's the difference between feeling good and feeling bad, and generating those feelings for others, too.

There's the playful animal game of name-calling, like MidasGirl referring to her girlfriend as a *****, but that's not the same thing as actually believing her friend's identity is ***** and relating to her as if that's what she IS. The two women are playfully aware that each other are magnificent human beings, and like puppies wrestling and biting each other, are playing a game. But there is no conscious or even unconscious belief that the other is really a *****, at least not in a healthy, conscious friendship which is what I'm fairly certain MidasGirl is involved with.

And of course believing yourself to be a certain label at the level of identity is vastly limiting. If you believe you are an alpha or a *****, or that you *should* be, then your relationship with yourself is limited to relating to yourself that way, or the disappointment and frustration of relating to yourself as not being what you *should* be. Yeccchh!

So if you see yourself or someone else behaving in a way that you used to see as an indication that the person IS this or that, as an identity, I think it makes a whole lot more sense to practice recognizing that what you're seeing is only a BEHAVIOR -- and you are free to relate to behaviors with far more freedom and power. You can't change what a person is, but you can act with real choice and opportunity or influence a behavior to something that works better for yourself and/or for the other person.

You can have access to forgiveness if you recognize that each person is doing the best they can with the resources they've got available in that moment -- and you, as a conscious person, have the ability to lead the world to real choice, freedom, and love. All those folks out there are aspects of you, after all; all you have to do to make a positive change out there is to change yourself and how you relate to those aspects.

[brendannz]

Great post!

[Captain Drywall]

Ohhh, you want better social skills, that include public speaking. Most people are quit frightened over the thought of public speaking. I did stand up comedy for a year and acted in plays, to help me get over some of this. Toast Masters is, of course, known for this stuff too.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by blossom

That is a great site Andrew...thanks
She's got the goods allright!

Glad to have been of help I know this lady from another forum and I really like her.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by joelr

Do women consider the "Alpha male" to be a positive trait?
It works well with chimpanzees.

Last I heard although the majority does enjoy confidence, attractiveness, and high financial staus - which is often associated with alpha - it's far more important to possess the ability to compromise, to discuss feelings and to be sensitive. Traits associated with beta. Aggression and disregard for others is also a part of alpha traits.

To say alpha males all end up as an overweight grumpy guy who sucks at communication and has the spiritual development of a stick, would be too much of a generalization. But it seems like alpha isn't the best long term choice based on what is needed for relationship skills.

QFT.

Too much bulls*t in the seduction comminity saying aggressive and dominant is best.

No, INTELLIGENCE, AUTHENTICITY and BALANCE IN ALL THINGS is best.

If that means you should work on being more "alpha" so be it, but alpha is not the one and only answer.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by Angela

You can have access to forgiveness if you recognize that each person is doing the best they can with the resources they've got available in that moment

You know, this is exactly one of the suggestions set forward by Dr. Albert Ellis, the creator of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He advocated unconditional acceptance of yourself and others - on that basis that everyone is doing their best with the knowledge and resources avaiable to them.

One exercise I've seen for doing this is reading a newspaper or watching the news on TV without judging ANY of the people involved in the stories. VERY hard to do - I've tried it. And failed. It's fine when it comes to someone who just robbed a bank. But how about a child molester or terrorist who helped kill thousands of people?

Sorry for being way offtopic, by the way

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

But how about a child molester or terrorist who helped kill thousands of people?

How do you feel about a child molester or terrorist? When you label them at an identity level, you get a pretty rock-solid judgement, and plenty of negative emotion about them, don't you? Now, does that make a positive difference? Maybe you think it *keeps* society safe to feel bad about them? Is it true that it's the negative emotion that keeps society safe, or is it really something else? (and is society really safe from child molesters and terrorists? they seem to proliferate despite all the judgement of them.)

Lots of people live in fear of child molesters, terrorists, bitches, and alphas, etc. How much positive influence do you think they have, in exchange for feeling their judgements and bad feelings?

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Angela

(and is society really safe from child molesters and terrorists? they seem to proliferate despite all the judgement of them.)

And off-topic, but they don't even proliferate. They're actually ridiculously rare and ineffectual, given how much media attention they get.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

And off-topic, but they don't even proliferate. They're actually ridiculously rare and ineffectual, given how much media attention they get.

You may be right. They do seem to proliferate in people's awareness, though, don't they? Child molesters and terrorists seem to pop in a disproportionate number of forum posts.

(and action films!)

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Angela

They do seem to proliferate in people's awareness, though, don't they?

Aw, but I can't trump SR with statistics. Boo.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by Angela

How do you feel about a child molester or terrorist? When you label them at an identity level, you get a pretty rock-solid judgement, and plenty of negative emotion about them, don't you? Now, does that make a positive difference? Maybe you think it *keeps* society safe to feel bad about them? Is it true that it's the negative emotion that keeps society safe, or is it really something else? (and is society really safe from child molesters and terrorists? they seem to proliferate despite all the judgement of them.)

Lots of people live in fear of child molesters, terrorists, bitches, and alphas, etc. How much positive influence do you think they have, in exchange for feeling their judgements and bad feelings?

I'm not saying anything good comes from judging or labelling people. My point was just that it can be really hard not to automatically judge people.

I would love to be able not to do it and I think a lot of good could come from not judging others. For instance, if both sides in the Middle East conflict withheld judgment of the "enemy", the peace process would be a lot easier. A suicide bomber is really just someone doing his/her best with the resources at their disposal - but that's hard to realise if someone in your family was killed by one.

The Dalai Lama is good example of how something like this is really possible. His people has suffered a lot at the hand of the Chinese government, but he still doesn't judge them.