She Knows Nothing About Me

[dtburanek]

Our first date we never even watched the movies we rented because she was so nervous she talked the entire time. I learned everything about her in a matter of hours.

It has been 3 (actually almost 4!) years since we've been together and we discussed once again how she knows nothing about me. This all started of course over an argument about doing the dishes, but any argument leads back to the fact that I don't talk.

What kinds of things are you supposed to tell a person about yourself so that they feel that they know you? It isn't like she hasn't heard stories about my life, but I guess they are the uninteresting ones that don't portray who I really am.

Sometimes I don't talk (in general not just with her) because I feel I don't have a chance too. Others are busy and move on with a topic before I can add in my input or story. Sometimes I get interrupted. That also causes me to shut down (but also I get in trouble for interrupting but that leads back to the first one about not having an opportunity to speak). And then there is the dreaded psychological back-burner issues of instances when I was younger where a piece of information was given about myself but then used against me or to make fun of me. Or even the psychological issues dealing with being gay.

So what should I tell her about myself? Specifically, because I've asked her to tell me what she wants to know but I only get general "just stuff about you!" kinds of answers. Is my relationship just doomed? Or do I just need to go see a counselor (either individually or a relationship therapist)?

[James81]

You, being the natural guy that you are, are taking what she says in a literal sense and are not comprehending that perhaps she doesn't communicate in the same way you do. Which means her words mean something different than what you think they mean. This sort of thing drives guys nuts, because, well, our logical side rules how we process information and we say what we mean and mean what we say.

With women, I'm finding, it's quite different. There's always "hidden" (and not intentionally hidden I might add) meanings behind everything she says. It's "hidden" to us, because, what she says doesn't always translate literally in the way we think it should.

So, that being said, when she says something like "I want to hear more about you," you have to stop and think about what that might mean on a deeper level. In the same way that a fight about doing dishes had NOTHING to do with doing dishes, a phrase like "I want to hear more about you," has NOTHING to do with things you've done.

IMO, and this is just my interpretation, she's telling you that she doesn't feel like she's made a personal connection with you. And in that same vein, that personal connection that is lacking is creating this distance and it's getting to her. She doesn't want mundane details about what you've done, she wants deeper thoughts about WHO YOU ARE. Does that make sense?

Example...instead of telling her about that time you get drunk with your buddies in college and went and peed off a bridge (kekeke), tell her about how standing naked over a bridge made you FEEL. Tell her what you like and dislike and why you like and dislike it. Recount to her the struggles from when you were younger (IMO this is the BEST thing you could possibly share with her) and what those issues were. Show your vulnerability for goodness sakes.

[rei]

i'm with James here. i think she is saying she doesn't feel connected with you. truthfully, i think she is saying she knows you have not really shared your vulnerable side... that emotional part of you that is afraid to open up because you got burned in the past. she feels that wall you have set up around your heart, she wants you to create a door in that wall and let her in.

it might help for you to explain that you hesitate to share because you were hurt in the past when information was used against you. this isn't specific info from your past but it is a way to share that part of you i think she is asking to see. telling her why you tend to clam up or shut down would be amazing progress in her eyes.

take the chance. sure, it's a risk, but you are missing out on a deeper connection to your partner by keeping her away from your hurt, emotional side. opening up to share that part of you could improve the quality of your current relationship AND have a healing effect on the little kid inside of you.

yes, this is a response focused on feeling. i can do the logic stuff too, but i think your situation is more about the heart than the head.

[Angela]

You may want to do a self-awareness seminar together, like the Landmark Forum or Steve's CGW. It will give you the opportunity to share and become intimate in an entirely new way, AND will help you to address the old gunk that's stopping you all over your life, like the interruption shut-down thing and that old betrayal that still haunts your unconscious.

Plus it's fun.

[James81]

Originally Posted by rei

take the chance. sure, it's a risk, but you are missing out on a deeper connection to your partner by keeping her away from your hurt, emotional side.

That's the funny part. The real risk here is shutting down and not opening up to her. She's basically giving you a free reign to tell her your gritty side, and with the history between you I think the last thing it's going to do is turn her off to you. What is turning her off to you is your inability to share that part yourself with her.

[rei]

Originally Posted by James81

That's the funny part. The real risk here is shutting down and not opening up to her. She's basically giving you a free reign to tell her your gritty side, and with the history between you I think the last thing it's going to do is turn her off to you. What is turning her off to you is your inability to share that part yourself with her.

right. i couldn't agree more. in situations like this, it's definitely more of a risk to keep the guard up. something i am still learning how to put into practice, but i know it's true.

i would add, i don't think it is an inability to share. it is an unwillingness. it's not that he can't, it's that he doesn't want to.

[James81]

Originally Posted by rei

i would add, i don't think it is an inability to share. it is an unwillingness. it's not that he can't, it's that he doesn't want to.

Agreed, and I understand that completely. I face similar issues.

[rei]

Originally Posted by James81

Agreed, and I understand that completely. I face similar issues.

i understand it too... i'm making more progress these days but the wall is still there. now i think it's made out of more flexible material. or a set of bricks have been removed. something like that.

but if the OP has resistance to sharing that part of himself, i understand that as well. this is what he is used to, he knows he is being asked to step out of his comfort zone. he probably already knows the relationship would be more rewarding to do so, or at least i think a part of him knows that. he's just understandably wary.

[dtburanek]

A few bits of information that I guess I left out that might be important in terms of communication style and what not but these quotes brought it to my attention "not that he can't, it's that he doesn't want to." and "This sort of thing drives guys nuts"...

While the first one is pretty much true it isn't that I can't it is that I don't want to.... But the "he" part is wrong. Hi my name is Delayne. I understand my login kind of makes that confusing.

Now with that taken care of. I appreciate all that you've said. Another part of the problem is that when I do open up (or even just think about it) I have a tendency to cry. I know that this thing about me makes me very much like a girl and is also one of the things my girlfriend hates. As far as I understand guys very much hate it when their girlfriends just burst into tears with no warning. It also renders me pretty much physically unable to speak most times. I don't know if that falls under "can't" or "won't" but you get the point.

Also what is the Landmark Forum or Steve's CGW and where do I find it?

[ssandra]

Just wanted to say: read again the above answers of all of them (James, rei and Angela) because they are absolutely right and I couldn't agree with them more.


Something to add: You might also want to coach your girlfriend into asking better questions.

You can tell her that you never had that experience of opening up, but that you are willing to try with her. Ask her than to ask you the right type of questions. If she doesn't know them, you can give them to her.

For example:

After a story you told, she can ask:

- How did that make you feel?
- Would you do it again (why, why not)
- Why did you make that decision?
- Do you feel different about it now than you did than?
- What about that situation did you like best/least?

After a movie you have seen together:

- If you were in the position of X, what would you have done? Why?
- How do you feel about this movie?
- Why do you feel this way about this movie?
- What part did you like most? Why?
- What would you do if this was real life?
- How would that make you feel?
- How do you think I would react in real life?

About persons you both know:

- What do you like most about this person? Why?
- How do you feel when you are with this person?
- What would you like to have the same as this person? Why?
- What do you dislike most about this person? Why?
- If you would never see this person again, what would you miss most?
- What would you miss least?

etc. etc.

The most important things to remember is to talk about "why" and "feelings". I can say that I really liked the movie. It was funny and I enjoyed myself. But it doesn't really say anything about me.
But if I say: I really liked the movie. Why: It made me feel good about myself Why: because it showed me that there is always a positive ending and I like seeing that and remembering that. It makes me feel good and happy inside.

You already know more about me with this little bit than just that I liked the movie
And you can continue to ask: Why is it important for you to see a happy ending? What does a happy ending make you feel? How realistic do you think this is? Would you like this happening in real life? etc.etc.etc.

[James81]

Originally Posted by dtburanek

While the first one is pretty much true it isn't that I can't it is that I don't want to.... But the "he" part is wrong. Hi my name is Delayne. I understand my login kind of makes that confusing.

heh, well that would be some useful information to know upfront, you know? I urge you to edit that into the first post so that you don't get more confusion (not everybody reads all the replies before responding to the initial post).

Anyway, in this case, the advice still stays the same in the sense that she wants you to open up to her. The "I don't want to" part is just an excuse for you to stay in your comfort zone. Thing is, the more you open up to her, the more it's going to help YOU in the process. Essentially you get to kill two birds with one stone: you get to strengthen your relationship with her and you also get to work through some of your issues.

[James81]

Your post urged me to click on your profile and read your previous post in the Welcome forums. I saw this in your post:

Originally Posted by dtburanek

I communicate much better with a keyboard than my own vocal chords.

And I say, break out your keyboard and tell her. If it's easier for you to communicate with your keyboard, then use it to communicate with her and let her know that the stuff you tell her through email/IM/whatever is much easier for you to communicate in that manner than face to face.

There's no law saying you have to do this face to face.

[dtburanek]

ssandra - Thanks! Very helpful. I'm like a trained monkey, it is easier for me to have very specific details and instructions. Specific questions, whether for her to ask or for me to just know that kinds of things she is looking for is very helpful.

James81 - I took care of that issue, hopefully to avoid further confusion for those who don't read all the comments. But yes, essentially that information is moot because the answer is still the same. Plus forum questions are just for people to ask, but from other people to learn from (especially if they prefer lurking so they can still get an answer that applies). Or that is my belief anyway.

[rei]

Originally Posted by dtburanek

But the "he" part is wrong.

oops! sorry... you know what's funny? when i was writing, i hesitated when i typed the masculine pronoun because i thought you might not be male.

Originally Posted by dtburanek

Another part of the problem is that when I do open up (or even just think about it) I have a tendency to cry. I know that this thing about me makes me very much like a girl and is also one of the things my girlfriend hates. As far as I understand guys very much hate it when their girlfriends just burst into tears with no warning. It also renders me pretty much physically unable to speak most times. I don't know if that falls under "can't" or "won't" but you get the point.

that is actually a very good sign i think. i get the sense that when you think about opening up and you cry, you are honoring and expressing that old pain. it's been sitting there waiting to be acknowledged. i think, if you really focus on honoring it consciously, you will find it to be very healing. you are no longer that child who was hurt, you have better ways to protect yourself. so it is okay to let that younger self express those tears and that hurt. you can even start this process alone in the bathroom until you feel a bit more comfortable. but i do think, if it is that intense for you, it would also help the relationship for you to tell your partner that you get this upset when you even think about opening up. that way your partner will have more understanding about where you're at and why you don't open up to her.

(edit: i just want to add that i totally understand the tendency to express yourself in a more masculine way. the focus on logic, rationality, specific solutions, etc. but i will also say, in my own experience, i have learned this was just another way to have that guard up. overvaluing rationality and undervaluing emotion became a way for me to avoid facing my emotional side. i think you may be in a similar situation. if so, i hope you will understand that in cases like this it actually takes more strength to risk vulnerability than it takes to be tough or stoic.)

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by dtburanek

Now with that taken care of. I appreciate all that you've said. Another part of the problem is that when I do open up (or even just think about it) I have a tendency to cry.

A friend of mine used to do the same. What she did then was say some ''personal'' story out loud when she was alone. Even in that case she would cry but it was as she almost got it out of her system that way, so she was able to share the same story with her partner in a calmer manner.
That helped her with the ''technical'' part of saying it.
Of course, you have to get to the bottom of the reason why you react like that. In her case, she tended to react like that with issues where she felt guilty/ashamed, so part of her felt like a ''child'' who would be criticized or she still hadn't forgiven herself for those issues.

[dtburanek]

I see James you commented again just before I finished my post. As to the verbal versus written communication issue. Did you know they've improved upon cards and I had actually found one that pretty much said what some have told me I should say. The "I'm sorry I don't say it much because that is how I am but I do love you" kinds of cards? I've already gotten her one of those... She was more impressed by the fact that they made a card so well for me.

I mean she has encouraged me to do the letter writing exercise at least with my issues with my parents. But I really think she needs face time. And I have issues with face time because of a) my crying and inablity to speak and b) you can see reactions. I like the internet because I can talk to people without seeing if they are thinking something other than what they are saying or even hearing voice inflections.

But the point is I do need to talk to someone and like you said I could kill two birds with one stone and just talk to her.

**And holy crap I got a lot more replies! I'll get to them in minute once I can read the screen again!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by dtburanek

Also what is the Landmark Forum or Steve's CGW and where do I find it?

Landmark Education
Steve Pavlina' Conscious Growth Workshop

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by dtburanek

I like the internet because I can talk to people without seeing if they are thinking something other than what they are saying or even hearing voice inflections.

But the point is I do need to talk to someone and like you said I could kill two birds with one stone and just talk to her.

As you can see I have plenty of experience with this. My husband is a type of rock. He has plenty of feelings and opinions, but if you do not ask them literally, they won't come out. Only now, after 5 years, he opens up a bit more to me, naturally. That's where my advice comes from

As for the talking bit, what really helps me (and him) when we are talking is to be either doing something else at the same time (going for a walk, doing the dishes etc) or lying in bed at night while it is already dark, lights out.

That way you can hold each other, she doesn't have to see your expression, nor do you have to see hers.

Good luck!

ps: it will already help her plenty if you can show her this thread. She'll see that you are actively trying to make the relationship better for her. It will mean a lot to her!

[rei]

Originally Posted by ssandra

As for the talking bit, what really helps me (and him) when we are talking is to be either doing something else at the same time (going for a walk, doing the dishes etc) or lying in bed at night while it is already dark, lights out.

That way you can hold each other, she doesn't have to see your expression, nor do you have to see hers.

good idea to mention. it is easier to be more open about yourself when do it in a situation like that, relieves a bit of the anxiety.

Originally Posted by ssandra

ps: it will already help her plenty if you can show her this thread. She'll see that you are actively trying to make the relationship better for her. It will mean a lot to her!

GREAT idea! i totally agree.