17-year-old; never kissed a girl

[Leaf]

OK, I can almost predic that people will tell me to wait and I'll eventually get in a relationship - please don't. I hate being passive about stuff.

Since I've found the seduction community, I've improved a lot. Started to dress well, no longer skinny, became a social butterfly, got really focused. Yet, I just can't seem to get in a intimate relationship with anyone (not that I want anyone... I have standards).

People, even my closest friends, assume I'm always scoring with the girls since I act like someone who does. I mean, I have girls inviting themselves over to my place, I have girls ditching their friends to join me at lunch, I hang with the unnaproachable goddesses of High-School, the ones just like in the movies. People even assume I'm no longer a virgin. Yet, my results are zero.

This is the only area of my life that is needing some deep serious work. Why am I not being able to share my life with someone I want? I seem to have everything I need... yet, nothing seems to happen.

[The David]

I'm not going to assume that you're immature just because you're that age, but I will say that a lot of people that age are. I don't know exactly what you're looking for in a relationship, but you said 'intimacy'. Well, if you're wanting a mature, commited relationship, then that will probably be harder to find at this time. People aren't always looking for that. If you're the kind of person who thinks 'the girl should be younger', then, well, good luck to you.

I can't give you any real advice, because I've never been in a relationship.

[Scorpio]

Where are you having problems?

-It seems like you have prospects... or not really?
-Are you afraid to ask girls out or try to kiss them?
-Do you not know how to ask a girl out or what to do on a date?
-Are you overdoing the 'seduction community' stuff when you could just be yourself and do fine?

Sorry, if you have all these girls into you like you say, where are you getting tripped up? Why not just ask one of the girls out and kiss her at the end of the night, or makeout with someone at a party?

[Leaf]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Where are you having problems?

-It seems like you have prospects... or not really?
-Are you afraid to ask girls out or try to kiss them?
-Do you not know how to ask a girl out or what to do on a date?
-Are you overdoing the 'seduction community' stuff when you could just be yourself and do fine?

Sorry, if you have all these girls into you like you say, where are you getting tripped up? Why not just ask one of the girls out and kiss her at the end of the night, or makeout with someone at a party?

Well, there's not much of a dating culture around here, so the whole 'going on a date' concept is pretty foreign around here. Anyway, I'm fine with asking someone out, and I also make sure that anyone who's with me is having a good time. And I've left the whole tactics and stuff behind. I just go natural. ^^

My prospects are kinda... non-existent, as of now. My last prospect, one that seemed the real thing, is now gone. Great girl, great relation, just went to a 'let's just be friends' situation. Some people have told me that my problem is not taking advantage of going further into physical intimacy when the chance is provided, making it seem I'm not interested. Maybe that's the real issue. Maybe I'm afraid of getting rejected for real, and I end up rejecting.

[Horace]

Originally Posted by Leaf

People, even my closest friends, assume I'm always scoring with the girls since I act like someone who does.

You insist on the fact that most people see you as a scorer with girls. Does that include the girls themselves ? And what do you tell to your closest friends about the whole thing ?

[Mayo]

Girls~\women like cool boys, sweet boys more and accomplished men the most. You are on the edge from being a boy to becoming a man, and believe me with my 26 years in on my ass it's hard to become a man.

All the best in your life!

[fballer11]

Leaf, I feel you.
Your post describes me exactly.
I have thought a lot about this, and I have come up with this:
I look around, and I see all the unnecessary drama and stuff. I don't want a relationship like that. Like you, I am not some super nerd type, and I have a social life. Maybe I am being too picky, what do you guys think? Because there have been opportunities, especially from the psycho chicks (j/k, but not really).

Maybe I should just get some experience in relationships in H.S. knowing that it probably won't be a huge deal. Any thoughts...

[Colm OReilly]

Leaf,

Let me ask you a few questions:
Are you running direct or indirect game?

Are you playing "natural" game?

Once I know where you're at I'll be able to help you.

Lots of love,
Colm

[Marc Greve]

I once heard Ross Jeffries say "I'll teach you a simple rule of manifestation; If you can't say it, you can't have it."

Regardless of what you think of Jeffries that sentence holds truth.
What EXACTLY is it you want, Leaf?

Do you want to kiss a girl?
Do you want to have sex with a girl?
Do you want a long term relationship with casual sex?
Do you want more than one of those relationships?
Do you want the recognition and social status that comes with having all of the above?

My point here is I just want you to say it, out loud, to yourself and affirm exactly what you want.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you seem to be slightly embarassed about your true intentions and beat around the bush a bit on the forums here - just own your desires. Don't apologize for them. If others think they're shallow, so what? I applaud you for putting conscious effort into this area of your life.
Fact is that experiencing anything for the first time usually changes you.

As for "dating", be sure to concisely define what you mean by "dating". A day with paintball can be a "date" in my mind.

[moviestar]

Can you go to a disco or party, find the drunkest chick and kiss her?
Can you get out, find the ugliest girl, ask her out and form a relationship with her?

If the answers to the above questions are yes then focus on the problem why you can't do it with a beatiful girl you like. That is exactly what is blocking you.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Leaf

Well, there's not much of a dating culture around here, so the whole 'going on a date' concept is pretty foreign around here. Anyway, I'm fine with asking someone out, and I also make sure that anyone who's with me is having a good time. And I've left the whole tactics and stuff behind. I just go natural. ^^

My prospects are kinda... non-existent, as of now. My last prospect, one that seemed the real thing, is now gone. Great girl, great relation, just went to a 'let's just be friends' situation. Some people have told me that my problem is not taking advantage of going further into physical intimacy when the chance is provided, making it seem I'm not interested. Maybe that's the real issue. Maybe I'm afraid of getting rejected for real, and I end up rejecting.

Where are you from? Is it a more 'everyone hangs out together and then hook up at the end of the night' thing? Is there any way you're not working the current system for hooking up properly?

Are you being too picky about prospects? Is there any way you could 'widen the net' to meet more people?

I think that last point you made about not going into physical territory when you have the chance is important. Why not try to kiss every girl you're 'dating' or whatever on the first night?

[dmaterialized]

Take things physical FAST. You should be touching girls in some unobtrusive way as much as possible - if they approve of it, and you will know when they don't, then you've given their "approval" to escalate. Remember that guys MUST do alllllll the escalating, and girls let them know when to stop. (This is not the "no means no" bit; I'm not even going into that...) Girls can escalate too, but it's vastly rarer.

I have a strange alternate story: I had absolutely no prospects whatsoever, until this girl showed up out of nowhere when I was 16 and taught me everything (only to dump me a month or so later, but who cares?). My other relationships since then have all come from one thought - ACT ON WHAT YOU WANT. Believe it or not, girls don't always know if you're interested in them-- especially if you act ambivalent about it-- and they tend to appreciate guys who aren't going to make a move on them (which I've been perceived as for most of my life-- that or just gay) so they are never going to ask "hey, wanna kiss me?" You just gotta do it. Know of the hair test? Best thing I've ever heard.

Do this over the course of 15-20 minutes (don't rush it)

1. While you're talking, lightly brush hair out of her eyes or something like that; look in her eyes
2. Slowly start actually carressing her hair but don't act like it's a big deal-- just do it
3. Start looking into her eyes more directly (preferably as SHE is talking, not you). Shift your gaze from her eyes to her mouth and then back up (this is called "triangle gazing")
4. If she doesn't make any effort to move or shift her gaze or provide any negative signals, she is actually EXPECTING you to kiss her, now or very soon.
5. You can really mess with her by leaning in and not doing anything, then leaning back out. I did this for about 3 hours on my first date with my first girlfriend and she literally couldn't stand it! (Has the added benefit of getting you more comfortable with that whole "omg omg omg it's happening" feeling when you first move closer)

It's that simple.

I know if you've never kissed anyone before, it's this whole nervewracking thing, and I was sooo freaked out the first time too, but you know what? At the exact instant it happens, it doesn't seem scary/weird at all.

[Erock]

The key here is that you have made these girls your friends. It's very difficult to go from a friend to a relationship. You did not make your intentions clear in the beginning. Why? Because your intentions weren't clear at the beginning. Now they view you as one of them. The best way to get a relationship is not to work in your social group, but to go to another social group with clear intentions and confidence. You have made these girls your social group.

Here is what you do: Have them introduce you to some of their friends that you do not know very well or not at all. Tell the girls you know that you are interested in their friend, be confident, and you will be in. Once you are on the right path, escalation will be super easy. Girls will give you obvious clues. You just need to be pointed in the right direction. Having girls on your side is an advantage man, use it!

Erock

[ScottLee]

Originally Posted by Erock

The key here is that you have made these girls your friends. It's very difficult to go from a friend to a relationship. You did not make your intentions clear in the beginning. Why? Because your intentions weren't clear at the beginning. Now they view you as one of them.

"You've become a complete non-sexual entity in their eyes. Like a brother...or a lamp."

[Narz]

What's wrong with being skinny? Skinny dudes got the stamina.

Anyway, just get confident. I was stuck at reform schools for most of adolesance and make up my mind (before I knew about any of this positive thinking stuff) that college was gonna be a blast. I realized that the awkwardness I felt (socially and physically) was... well, basically false, not a real part of who I was but based on my own insecurities and other people's reinforcements and changed my attitude.

College, was indeed a blast. I dropped out my 2nd year and was left somewhat confused and disillusioned as to what to do with my life but nevertheless, it was a great social (and sexual) experience.

[Narz]

Originally Posted by dmaterialized

Take things physical FAST.

I agree! You'll know if they like you or not by their response. Don't waste time on any girls that aren't into you and don't be demoralized. Keep going 'till you get mutual attraction.

One silly myth in our society is that by persisting with a chick who doesn't like you, you can get her to. It's patently false in 99% of cases. Find a woman who already likes you and dismiss any others at the first sign of disapproval (if it turns out you're wrong in rejecting them, they will probably take your willingness to move on for confidence and may actually pursue you! Double score!!).

[Erock]

One more tidbit of advice. You know that awkward good feeling you have when you are talking to a girl and you both know that you like each other? She's smiling at everything you're saying and you're smiling at everything she is saying.
That's called sexual tension, and if you want to really (not superficially) be good with girls, you have to learn how to build that. If you can amplify that feeling until neither of you can resist each other, escalation will happen on its own.

You don't want to be one of those jock-fools that tries to escalate physically, and you see his girl say "stop," and he tries again in a few minutes, while you're sitting there wondering, "isn't that assault?" Jerks try to have sex, real men build sexual tension.

Erock

[WayToTwilight]

Hey dood...

I haven't really read any of the posts prior but let me tell you something... I'm 20 years old, in the prime of my life, beautiful women all around me in college and I've never kissed a girl. I just went to my first dance (well technically it was a club) so don't even worry about it. Just remember, my motto is, it's never too late to get started. I just recently got into being more open about my sexuality (I was, before extremely timid and very straight edge) and recently started getting into a more flirtatious mood with girls. Don't worry, you'll learn more on your own... just remember, whatever you're doing... just have fun. Have no regrets. Good luck!

[Narz]

So Leaf, how's it going?

If I were a chick, I'd kiss your brains out.

[songwriter]

And well... if nothing works. Forget about it. Why do you necessarily have to be kissed? Maybe if you really wanted it you would have it.
Not everyone has to be the same... not everyone must have a partner...
Most of Pavlinists are somewhat "different" and not ashamed. You don't have to force yourself to anything because the others do it.

[Leaf]

Ah, kinda tough to answer all of you.

What I really, really want is some intimacy. Yeah, I know I can have a great life alone, but sharing that great life with someone else is also a good thing. Maybe time is the answer.

[Narz]

I quote I like : "The secret to patience is finding something to do in the meantime"

The way I view it is, if you're busy doing something you care about (all the while yearning for intimacy) you may well find it when you least expect it from someone who's been watching you, inspired.

[homeboy]

I'm much older than you and I haven't even done that. I haven't even thought about it. Don't fret. When the time comes, you'll find that somebody. Sometimes being passive is the only thing you can do to avoid mistakes.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by homeboy

I'm much older than you and I haven't even done that. I haven't even thought about it. Don't fret. When the time comes, you'll find that somebody. Sometimes being passive is the only thing you can do to avoid mistakes.

Same here. Well, love is a chemical reaction on our brain... there's nothing I can do if there's no chemistry... so, still waiting.

[mattsonn]

Sometimes you just have to take care of the basics. If it helps, I didn't have my first kiss until I was 17 either.

[Transcendent]

You have to learn how the female brain is programmed for attraction. Someone posted about sexual tension, this is the key. Learn how to create sexual tension. It doesn't matter what you look like, how much money you have, none of it.

Have you ever seen below average guys with no money having beautiful girlfriends? To people it seems like he won the jackpot, but women aren't attracted to money and looks on a sub-conscious level. Create the sexual tension.

The "nice guy" problem. The whole girls are attracted to bad boys and nice guys finish last is an incorrect statement. It's not about being bad or being nice. It's a whole myriad of things. For the most part, when a genuine nice guy sees a girl that he likes, he changes. When he tries to talk to the girl and try to get a date, move things along, etc., he doesn't act like a nice guy anymore, he acts like a wussy. Confidence is GONE. Frequently calling, asking questions to try to make the girl as comfortable as possible, always trying to please her. That's not what creates sexual tension. It creates repulsion.
Have you ever been around someone who is always trying to please you? Being a guy it's not that fun, for a girl it's even worse.

If you're talking to a girl or on a date or just hanging out, whatever, don't make it about you. Make everything about her. Here's what I mean, don't try to give her reasons why she should date you, give her reasons why she might not be good enough for you or your ideal person. This throws girls off big time and gets them to start thinking different about you. The key thing is, this takes a lot of practice. You can't be mean or stone cold about it... example.

You could be walking along side her and say, "Yeah I think you'd be a pretty cool friend to have." She interprets this as saying you just want to be friends with her. Then 2 minutes later hold her hand as you're walking. Don't say anything about it for 20 seconds, then say, "What are you doing holding my hand? I thought we were friends!" Then act apalled, in a joking / sarcastic manner. A few minutes later, bump her hand with yours and completely play it like she's trying to hold your hand again. Girls love this kind of stuff, it's fun for everyone. If a girl ever hits you, punches you in the arm or smacks your shoulder, it's a great sign. Oh, and you can tell if it's the good kind of hit or if she's really pissed, there is a difference.

Don't agree with everything she says. If she says she loves chocolate, and you in turn do not like chocolate, most people would say, "oh, cool, yeah chocolate." Instead make it clear that you don't like chocolate. Don't agree with everything she says, you are your own person.

There is a lot more to creating sexual tension and learning how girls work. But I hope you can take what I wrote and not be that wussy guy that nice guys usually turn into. Girls want a guy who is different, not the same nice / wussy guy that's always trying to hit on them. Be confident, create sexual tension, make the girl want to call you and hang out with you. Make them want you, it is possible.

[mattsonn]

That was some very original advice, Transcendent.

[Helena Handbasket]

Leaf:

Why do you assume that it is your personal shortcoming that you are 17 and have never kissed a girl? You give yourself too much credit. Consider that you live in a society that causes people to be alienated from one another and perpetuates lack of intimacy beginning at a very early age.

Look around you. In our society of abundance and plenty, you will see there are people everywhere, of every age and background who are isolated, depressed, and lonely. Don't focus so much on yourself. Focus on bringing joy and positivity to other people and you will be amazed at how it comes back to you.

Kissing is a lovely and wonderful thing. I'm not going to tell you you're young and be patient; I was 17 once too, you know, and I know how you feel. You're young and of course you want to practice. But you sound like a thoughtful person, so I know that one day you'll realize it's an empty and meaningless gesture if two people kiss who don't really care for one another. Good luck to you. I hope you get lucky soon!

[Narz]

Sexual tension is ok for awhile but y'all swear that chicks don't have needs too.

If the anticipation is better than the act you ain't doing it right.

[Transcendent]

Originally Posted by Narz

Sexual tension is ok for awhile but y'all swear that chicks don't have needs too.

If the anticipation is better than the act you ain't doing it right.

Girls have needs, never said they didn't. The thing is, girls are different than guys. Ever wonder why a guys can just skip foreplay altogether and be ready to go in a nano-second and girls like to work their way up?

It's all about attraction and anticipation. Most guys problems are about meeting a girl and working into a relationship. Creating sexual tension from the first moment you meet a girl is what in turn creates attraction and anticipation.

Let's say that you went out with a new girl once and set something up for tomorrow night. Tomorrow during the day you can send her a text message saying, "Bring a scarf and tennis shoes." She will think about that all day until she sees you. She will wonder what you have planned and she will be excited and thinking about you all day long. You are creating attraction, getting her to be excited about you.