I hate PUA! (Pick Up Artistry) it was a Con!

[PhoenixFlames]

Hi guys

Ok I was going to post this on a PUA forum but to be honest it would be like pissing in the wind. Not to mention the (PUA) Forums are full of theorists, wannabe Psychologists and "moderators" who are obviously Virgins themselves as they have no grasp on the reality of Dating, Sleeping with, let alone creating an Emotional Connection with women so strong that they have women sticking around.

About 8 months ago I wrote a post on a Forum called "Breaking News-PUA has nothing to do with success with women".
To my astonishment the Thread had over Three Thousand Views (the most views a Single Post had ever recieved on the Forum).
The forum was "locked" by a Moderator who was highly critical of my post without addressing the issues raised in my post. I asked if he could name the first names of the last 3 girls he slept with to which I was only given a "flakey" reply that dodged the question.
I then pointed out that due to the Moderators high post count AND the fact that he was posting at all hours of the Day/Night (forums state day and time postedhe didn't go to Nightclubs in the GMT timezone he was in, nor did he have a girlfriend as he was typing virtually every 2 hours (meaning he wasn't out/ nor was he on dates).
The views on the post jumped to 3500 views! However my post was then "locked" despite me not violating any forum rules.


So here's my view why PUA doesn't get guys laid, nor why so many "students" are just theorists.

There are three types of PUAs. "Structured" "Neuro Linguistic Programmers" and (the worst of the bunch if you ask me) "Naturals".

Structured are those who follow Mystery Method/Love Systems. There is a "model" within this Structured Game. In fact go onto Scribd.com and search for Magic Bullets, Venusian Arts Handbook or Revelations to view this Structure*
*Unfortunetly for most PUAs whilst they may not have a problem with "Attraction" it is when they get to "Comfort" do they **** up.

NLP. Considering that many animals reproduce without learning NLP it is amazing that many guys believe that "embedded commands" work with seducing women. Sex is all about Evolutionary Biology- it has for hundreds of thousands of years.

"Naturals". This is by far the Creepiest aspect of PUA. Guys paying $600 for a DVD set on why Guys in High School were popular with girls, they were Naturals.
However this form of teaching goes onto to doing two things
1) Stating that Natural Game is not following Mystery Method
2) Reading Zen Buddismn, Eckhart Tolle,Malcom Gladwell, David Deida. Whilst I do not have a probelm with these authors let me point out a simple fact*
*whilst I do not have a problem with these authours most guys who got laid in High School had never read a book in their life and B try stating what "Natural Game" is instead of what its not (i.e. Mystery Method without offering a solution)
In fact a "Natural PUA" is a bit like a Scientologist calling himself a Scientist.

and finally

I studied with the "best PUA in the world 2009" back in 2008 and 3 things were apparent to me.
This guy was a Good Looking Guy. 6 Foot Tall, Symetrical Face.
He had £60,000 per year ($100,000 per year USA) working within Public Relations. and now makes $1000 per head, per weekend (usually in a class of 10-20 desperate guys) cash in hand tax free. And he works full time, ven during the week.
He has a Network of people within PR, High End (VIP) Club Promotions.
He has always had a string of girlfiends since age 14 years old and maybe lost his Virginity around this time (I'd seen proof) and he now dates a Materialistic woman he has now Married (however if you look at their body language in promotion shots they look "tense" and she looks "defensive" when he attempts to embrace her).

What annoys me is this MPUA says "I made less Money in my first week in PUA than PR" (which makes sense for the FIRST week but now he makes a lot. And considering his materialistic wife/girlfriend used my cash in hand fee to go shopping doesn't say a lot does it?)

Also he says "I was voted least likely to get a girlfriend in school when someone wrote it on the chalkboard (I saw photo evidence he had a girlfriend not long after school AND that in a (now deleted online memior) he had no trouble with girls admitting they were HIS girlfriend.

I will go further into the topics mentioned here but it just annoys me when guys on forums cannot admit they don't sleep with girls nor when they try to advise me- when the freqeuncy or high posts suggest they are **** with women themselves.

Rant over

[brendannz]

I remember when I read "The Game" there was this guy who idolised Style and basically turned himself into a Style Mini-Me,

so congratulations for not turning yourself into a hero-worshipper of those guys.

Yeah some friends introduced me to the "community" but I could never get into it, I can only really 'just be myself.' Plus my friend who is into it got dissed by his mates for not knowing ASD means Anti-Slut-Defence, so it's like they have no awareness of the outside world, other than applying PUA books to their interactions.

Plus I noticed the community in my local area, and on the website the guy describes it like "Then I came over Big Happy Baby to the HB8 and used the claw, then we DHVed the HB7 then used the apocalypse opener" etc.

From my perception if you're only interested in yourself and your own techniques, no girls will be interested in you, unless they have really low self esteem.

[cylon]

PUA is not the most helpful term because as of now, the positive things that fall under that umbrella, get pretty much no exposure. It's not all about being the bad guy. I've already discussed this so I won't repeat myself, but it's kind of like saying popular music is horrible because the Jonas Brothers exist.

[Gracestars]

I'm not a guy, but I've been meaning to post something about this whole PUA thing for a while... I'm strangely intrigued and really confused by it. Quite frankly I take my hat off to you for throwing it out the window.. I am aware of the book 'the Game' and what I know of it sounds hugely bizarre and artificial to me. The whole PUA thing sounds really dehumanzing. I mean, us women are people (believe it or not) and sex/relationships are a human connection. Women aren't animals you are trying to snare in a trap, or game to be played. And tips like negging (is that the way it is spelt?) -yucko! Put me down and I'll run a mile. Idk... can't everyone just relax and try being themselves and see what happens. I'm totally perplexed by the 'Rules'/'PUA' scene.

[cylon]

You're not exactly the target audience for PUA materials.

There's a cool book called "The Art of Seduction" you might like though. It's about men and women.

[Gracestars]

No. But I am the target for pick-up artists.

[cylon]

Consider yourself lucky.

[Gracestars]

Ha. Not sure if that makes me lucky. I might be lucky however that i don't have trouble meeting members of the opposite sex, so maybe that's why I don't understand the need for these kinds of books/forums etc. I do know that a man who is confident being himself is very attractive. And you can usually smell someone who is pulling tricks from a bag a mile away.

But whatever. If the thread is not intended for me, I'll sign off.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

Consider yourself lucky.

Blechh. Like a girl feels lucky to hear yet another rendition of: "Did you know one of your nostrils is bigger than the other?" or "Hey, guys, let me get your opinion on something..." or "I'll bet you're high maintenance," or some other cheesy PUA smarmaciousness.

Nah. Luckier to come across an authentic guy.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Ha. Not sure if that makes me lucky. I might be lucky however that i don't have trouble meeting members of the opposite sex, so maybe that's why I don't understand the need for these kinds of books/forums etc. I do know that a man who is confident being himself is very attractive. And you can usually smell someone who is pulling tricks from a bag a mile away.

But whatever. If the thread is not intended for me, I'll sign off.

Take it easy.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Angela

Blechh. Like a girl feels lucky to hear yet another rendition of: "Did you know one of your nostrils is bigger than the other?" or "Hey, guys, let me get your opinion on something..." or "I'll bet you're high maintenance."

Nah. Luckier to come across an authentic guy.

Yes! Thank you, Angela. My point exactly. Calling me names, or putting me down will get you nowhere and fast! Authenticity will. I'm sure this goes for most self-respecting women.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by cylon

Take it easy.

I am taking it easy. I'm not upset, cylon. You made it sound like my thoughts weren't welcome in the thread because PUA material doesn't apply to me. So I willingly said my piece and went on my way.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I am taking it easy. I'm not upset, cylon. You made it sound like my thoughts weren't welcome in the thread because PUA material doesn't apply to me. So I willingly said my piece and went on my way.

Gracestars, I think he meant it like "hasta la vista, baby" or "happy trails," not like "calm down, woman!"

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Angela

Gracestars, I think he meant it like "hasta la vista, baby" or "happy trails," not like "calm down, woman!"

Oh. Really? haha. OK then. ha.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Calling me names, or putting me down will get you nowhere and fast! Authenticity will. I'm sure this goes for most self-respecting women.

A neg is two things: a careless insult that backfires, or a flirtatious teasing that is playful and well intentioned.

What happens is a guy hears negs are bad, and he assumes that means flirting is bad too. So let's not outlaw flirting, shall we?

So, now you know more about negging. It's not the evil thing it's been portrayed to be.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

So, now you know more about negging. It's not the evil thing it's been portrayed to be.

Not evil. Just inauthentic, manipulative, and creeeepy.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by cylon

A neg is two things: a careless insult that backfires, or a flirtatious teasing that is playful and well intentioned.

What happens is a guy hears negs are bad, and he assumes that means flirting is bad too. So let's not outlaw flirting, shall we?

So, now you know more about negging. It's not the evil thing it's been portrayed to be.

It's a shame it's called negging then if it is simply innocent flirting. It certainly does sound negative, and I thought that was the point.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

It's a shame it's called negging then if it is simply innocent flirting. It certainly does sound negative, and I thought that was the point.

It's a shame it's called PUA when it's just advice for men to learn how to communicate with women better.

It serves its purpose. Negative is in the eye of the beholder. Creepy guys are creepy guys no matter what "techniques" they've studied. You shouldn't have too much difficulty distinguishing between the two, but it's hard to tell over the internet how easy going you are, so I could be wrong.

[Indiana]

"Neither compliment nor insult, a neg is something in between - an accidental insult or a backhanded compliment. The purpose of a neg is to lower a woman's self-esteem while actively displaying a lack of interest in her."

That's directly quoted from The Game.

[cylon]

No one reads the Game anymore.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by cylon

It's a shame it's called PUA when it's just advice for men to learn how to communicate with women better.

It serves its purpose. Negative is in the eye of the beholder. Creepy guys are creepy guys no matter what "techniques" they've studied. You shouldn't have too much difficulty distinguishing between the two, but it's hard to tell over the internet how easy going you are, so I could be wrong.

I guess I can keep posting then...

I'm not sure what me being easy going or not has to do with it.. Yes I can tell the difference, but I wouldn't want to know that a guy, creepy or not in our initial interactions, had used 'techniques' on me. Huuuuge turn-off.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

I guess I can keep posting then...

I'm not sure what me being easy going or not has to do with it.. Yes I can tell the difference, but I wouldn't want to know that a guy, creepy or not in our initial interactions, had used 'techniques' on me. Huuuuge turn-off.

If you can tell the difference, why are you asking these questions in the first place?

[mikethedrummer44]

I actually got into PUA recently out of pure curiosity. I think there's a lot of garbage, but at its core, it's good stuff. It's not all about which "routine" you use, or tricking a women, it's more about being yourself. HUGE amounts of men struggle with relationships and dating. Most of these guys are probably great guys, but they may be too nervous to talk to women. PUA gives these guys some confidence, and some routines to memorize and fall back on, so they'll hopefully be able to get into a fulfilling relationship.

I think a lot of people view PUA as a way to get an easy one night stand, or how to use women for your own desires. It's true you can use PUA to do this, but I think the whole idea is being your best self.

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by Indiana

"Neither compliment nor insult, a neg is something in between - an accidental insult or a backhanded compliment. The purpose of a neg is to lower a woman's self-esteem while actively displaying a lack of interest in her."

That's directly quoted from The Game.

If I'd known a man had used this on me (assuming I'd actually fallen for it) I would be kinda creeped out.

You're obviously a big believer in this stuff, whether it is the game or some other resource. How's it worked for you then cylon? Have you had much luck with it? Or has anyone else on this forum for that matter?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

I think a lot of people view PUA as a way to get an easy one night stand, or how to use women for your own desires. It's true you can use PUA to do this, but I think the whole idea is being your best self.

"The Blueprint Decoded" is great for this reason.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

No one reads the Game anymore.

That may be true, but this "lower a woman's self-esteem while actively displaying a lack of interest in her" technique is still very pervasive. It's pretty much to the point where women catch each other's eyes and laugh at the worminess of the 'pick-up artist' who uses it.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by cylon

No one reads the Game anymore.

Thanks for demonstrating perfectly what a neg is!

[Gracestars]

Originally Posted by cylon

If you can tell the difference, why are you asking these questions in the first place?

Until my last post, I don't recall asking any questions at all.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Thanks for demonstrating perfectly what a neg is!

Thank you for having a sense of humor!

Damn, someone gets it. I was getting a little worried for a moment.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Gracestars

Until my last post, I don't recall asking any questions at all.

Go back to your first post, it was full of sentences that ended in question marks.