Physical & Emotional Closeness in a Relationship

[The Backward OX]

What are your views on the importance or lack of importance of physical and emotional closeness in a relationship?

The woman I share my life with and I don’t have any physical contact beyond a chaste goodnight kiss. She’s not getting it anywhere else and has told a girlfriend she’s not interested in it. I’m not happy that she’s like this.

There’s no emotional bond either – we have no deep feelings, one way or the other, for each other; me, because that’s probably the way I am; her, I dunno why she’s like it. She’s an extremely emotional person, but not towards me.

I’m not getting it anywhere else either. And I don’t particularly want to split up with her.

We've been living together for 17 years and share all expenses.

Thoughts?

[JSB]

It doesn't matter what others think about it, as it's your life. What do you think? Is this a situation you are happy with?

I would not personally be happy in this situation; I would feel like I was missing something important in my life. But, as I wrote, my opinion is valid for my life, not yours.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

And I don’t particularly want to split up with her.

Why not? What's keeping you two together? What are you experiencing that's so good it compensates for having no physical or emotional closeness?

[Gypsyrover]

I can really only speak from my own experience, which sounds similar to yours. My husband is very not interested in the physical aspects of our relationship and the emotional intensity varies, but I wouldn't ever describe it as passionate or extreme. We care deeply for each other and generally respect each other, but I don't know that either one of us would say that we have the same closeness in many ways that we did years ago. Dealing with some of those aspects though, I have to tell you, really never gets easier.

One of the things we've realized and try to work on is that we express love in different ways. He shows his love by doing things...he works on my car, does things around the house, that sort of thing. I do that to a lesser extent, but to me love is expressed through time and attention. Our disconnect is in that it's hard for either one of us to "feel" loved the way that the other expresses it. So we try to change that, but it's hard.

I will say that we have time together, which makes it hard to leave and it's really hard for either one of us to call it quits when we have no reason other than well..."because" or "well, we don't feel like it anymore".

What I have been thinking a lot about lately is whether a lot of it is a matter of attitude and/or perspective. I just keep thinking that maybe it's really naive of me to expect that the passion and affection and intensity in a relationship would remain. That perhaps what we are doing is just shifting into a next stage where acceptance and tolerance and a kind of turning back to our more independent selves is just what happens. Kind of an adolescence of the long term relationship.... I guess I have to chew on that some more and see what comes of that, though. I'm still thinking that theory through.

I don't know that any of this is helpful, but I do know where you're coming from and I don't think there are any simple answers, just always more questions that I imagine ultimately come down to value judgments and a matter of what choices you're willing to live with and which ones you aren't.

[ssandra]

Have you tried talking to her about it?

[openeyes]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

The woman I share my life with and I don’t have any physical contact beyond a chaste goodnight kiss. She’s not getting it anywhere else and has told a girlfriend she’s not interested in it. I’m not happy that she’s like this.

There’s no emotional bond either – we have no deep feelings, one way or the other, for each other; me, because that’s probably the way I am; her, I dunno why she’s like it. She’s an extremely emotional person, but not towards me.

Has it been that way as long as you've been together, or has the closeness been reduced to this? I've lived with my girlfriend for ~2 years now, so it's still a fairly new relationship, though people who see us together usually assume we've been together much longer, and we're used to being affectionate almost constantly. Even right now we're snuggled up next to each other, on a big cushion that's like a little island in our living room, with me at my computer and her on hers. Occasionally we look over to see what the other is up to, talk a bit, and cuddle more

I find I'm not the same person without generous amounts of physical/emotional closeness, and would see little reason to stay with someone that had largely shut me out. Even among people I know who've been together over 30 years, the happy ones are still going around the house grabbing each other's butts.

[The Backward OX]

double post

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by openeyes

Even among people I know who've been together over 30 years, the happy ones are still going around the house grabbing each other's butts.

I think if I grabbed her butt, she’d probably just shy away. As there would be no spontaneity in my behaviour, it might seem to her as an attempt at manipulation.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Gypsyrover

I can really only speak from my own experience, which sounds similar to yours. My husband is very not interested in the physical aspects of our relationship and the emotional intensity varies, but I wouldn't ever describe it as passionate or extreme. We care deeply for each other and generally respect each other, but I don't know that either one of us would say that we have the same closeness in many ways that we did years ago. Dealing with some of those aspects though, I have to tell you, really never gets easier.

One of the things we've realized and try to work on is that we express love in different ways. He shows his love by doing things...he works on my car, does things around the house, that sort of thing. I do that to a lesser extent, but to me love is expressed through time and attention. Our disconnect is in that it's hard for either one of us to "feel" loved the way that the other expresses it. So we try to change that, but it's hard.

I will say that we have time together, which makes it hard to leave and it's really hard for either one of us to call it quits when we have no reason other than well..."because" or "well, we don't feel like it anymore".

What I have been thinking a lot about lately is whether a lot of it is a matter of attitude and/or perspective. I just keep thinking that maybe it's really naive of me to expect that the passion and affection and intensity in a relationship would remain. That perhaps what we are doing is just shifting into a next stage where acceptance and tolerance and a kind of turning back to our more independent selves is just what happens. Kind of an adolescence of the long term relationship.... I guess I have to chew on that some more and see what comes of that, though. I'm still thinking that theory through.

I don't know that any of this is helpful, but I do know where you're coming from and I don't think there are any simple answers, just always more questions that I imagine ultimately come down to value judgments and a matter of what choices you're willing to live with and which ones you aren't.

Thank you

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Have you tried talking to her about it?

hahahaha.

How do you open up meaningful communication with a person who's lived their entire life not discussing things at this level? I know I can do it, as it's happened in the past with others, but this lady . . . forget it.

[Gracestars]

If you have no physical or emotional bond, and there is no chance in hell of either of you broaching or discussing the issue, what then brought you together in the first place and what keeps you together now? The shared expenses?

[The Backward OX]

You got it. That, plus habit.

[The Backward OX]

Oh, and her primary conversational gambit is gossip. Using her head, having thought-provoking and stimulating discussions, just isn’t her.

[Angela]

Well, I'd say you're lying in the bed that you've made.

If it were me in that situation, I'd make some bold changes, because it doesn't sound like much of a relationship worth having, to me -- totally unaligned with my values. My values may not be your values, though, of course.

What, if anything, are you going to do about it?

[Gypsyrover]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

hahahaha.

How do you open up meaningful communication with a person who's lived their entire life not discussing things at this level? I know I can do it, as it's happened in the past with others, but this lady . . . forget it.

One thing I've found is that my husband will absolutely shut down (seriously, it's like a garage door goes down) if I try to sit down for "A Talk". What I've found that he needs is time to think things through and chew on them before he either is ready to (sort of) discuss them, maybe. So what I do when I'm at the end of my rope is leave a letter. That way, I can say what I need to say in a thoughtful, considered way, instead of doing it at a time when I'm frustrated and confrontational. It has about a 50% success rate--with success being defined as acknowledgment, but at least it gives me a way to get some of the things out of my head and on the table.

I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, you end up trying or doing though...

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Gypsyrover

One thing I've found is that my husband will absolutely shut down (seriously, it's like a garage door goes down) if I try to sit down for "A Talk". What I've found that he needs is time to think things through and chew on them before he either is ready to (sort of) discuss them, maybe. So what I do when I'm at the end of my rope is leave a letter. That way, I can say what I need to say in a thoughtful, considered way, instead of doing it at a time when I'm frustrated and confrontational. It has about a 50% success rate--with success being defined as acknowledgment, but at least it gives me a way to get some of the things out of my head and on the table.

I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, you end up trying or doing though...

Yes, sitting down for "A talk" never works with my husband either... what does work is talking to him while he is in the shower, on the toilet, doing the dishes... anything he does with his hands and does not really need to use his brain.

Talking while walking also helps.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

hahahaha.

How do you open up meaningful communication with a person who's lived their entire life not discussing things at this level? I know I can do it, as it's happened in the past with others, but this lady . . . forget it.

You start.

You try.

Just because she has never done this, doesn´t mean that she is incapable... and anyway, you´ll never know unless you try.

Why are you even with her? If I were you and this unhappy in the relationship, I would have been out of there a long time ago...

Why do you keep torturing yourself?

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by ssandra

You start.

You try.

Just because she has never done this, doesn´t mean that she is incapable... and anyway, you´ll never know unless you try.

In your response to another poster you said you have most success talking to your husband when he doesn’t need to use his brain. I don’t understand this. I have to figure out solutions to everything. This is part of our problem. The lady here by her own admission has a lazy mind, although I personally believe that to be an understatement; she appears incapable of having meaningful (if that’s the right word) discussions. Gossip is her life. Additionally she is, also by her own admission, non-assertive. There is absolutely nothing there for me to work with.

Why are you even with her? If I were you and this unhappy in the relationship, I would have been out of there a long time ago...

Why do you keep torturing yourself?

See Posts # 11 & 12

There's also the issue of age. We're both probably old enough to be your parents, or if you're in your twenties, grandparents. You don't feel like making major changes at that age. The majority of what little is left of one’s energy is taken up with simply staying alive.

[Gypsyrover]

I think that given any stimulus, you either adapt or change. Ideally, we would have the opportunity to work in concert with our partners to find some middle ground where our emotional and physical needs would be met and no one would feel taken advantage of. The reality is that sometimes our partners just can't give us that. Not that they're bad or we're bad, it just doesn't mesh.

If that happens you either have to adapt the way you live within your situation or change the situation in which you live. It sounds very much like you don't wish to change your situation. That there are still some concrete benefits to staying with her that outweigh the possibilities that would come with leaving. So then you have to just adapt. Fortunately for you, my friend, this is something I have put a great deal of thought into and have experience with!

It really comes down to accepting what you have for what it is and supplementing the rest. For example, my husband is an absolute homebody who seriously lost sleep during the period between buying a couch and getting it put in because he was wondering how it would "fit in" to the routine and comfort that he and the animals have going. To me, home is a place for laundry, sleep and face time with the hubby. Our fundamental natures won't ever change and have grown further apart actually since we've been together. So rather than dragging a miserable husband around or me fuming and stomping at home, I belong to half a dozen clubs and associations that keep me out and about. I do try to stay home one or two nights a week and see if we can find something to do together, but otherwise, I just do my thing and he does his.

Same with feeling-stuff. I learned a long time ago that my friends were far more valuable to me as an emotional support than he ever would be. He just doesn't have that capacity. So rather than expecting it, wanting it, wishing it and ultimately being angry that it isn't there....I just go to where it really is. It works for a lot of things.

I will say though, that as negative as it all sounds, that in all of my ruminating about all of this, the foundation of it all is that we both recognize our basically independent natures, which makes a lot of this okay. The other part is that I absolutely know that my husband is my biggest fan and supporter. He may not be the storybook partner I'd have ordered from the factory, but our fundamental admiration for each other goes a long way to support this approach.

It's not an easy way to live. It's often really hard to NOT resent the isolation and the loneliness and the rejection and it's often really easy to slip into anger and resentment about it all and make yourself a victim to the situation. But if you choose to stay, then you have to choose with your eyes open, knowing that what you have right now is all there is and to make that choice either knowing that right now is just fine or that you can make changes for yourself that will make the situation better. But in the end, it comes down to you and your choices, you have to take her out of it.

[The Backward OX]

mmmmm.

[Gypsyrover]

mmmm........ ???? Yeah, it's not the cheeriest post, I guess. But hopefully it's something concrete and a little helpful to think about...

[The Backward OX]

Ah, the written word. And here was me believing I'd painted a vivid picture of thinking deeply on all you'd said. I guess it needed the body language and tone of voice. OK. "Thinking deeply on all you'd said."

[Savage]

You have a living arrangement, not really a relationship. A relationship involves relating, which is more than just co-habitating.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

You have a living arrangement, not really a relationship. A relationship involves relating, which is more than just co-habitating.

I thought we were done with the labels?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I thought we were done with the labels?

LOL

Of course there's a relationship -- there is indeed relating going on. Just not very dynamic or effective relating, if you're interested in intimacy, sex, and feeling good. I think this relationship is not really the core issue here, though. I think the woman is a mirror in which you can see a reflection of the real issue, which is that you're half-dead:

You don't feel like making major changes at that age. The majority of what little is left of one’s energy is taken up with simply staying alive.

Who'd want to have sex with someone who's half-dead? Or who believes they are. Okay, there are some necrophiliacs out there, but I don't think you'd want to have sex with them!

It's your relationship with yourself that I would be concerned about -- your lethargic and devastatingly limiting self-beliefs. Oxy, are you willing to just survive and then pooter out? I don't think so -- I don't think you would be participating here in this forum if that were all that you're up to.

If you had all the energy you could possibly need, what kind of relationship would you be generating -- what kind of LIFE would you be living?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

There's also the issue of age. We're both probably old enough to be your parents, or if you're in your twenties, grandparents. You don't feel like making major changes at that age. The majority of what little is left of one’s energy is taken up with simply staying alive.

Then I don't see what the problem is. You have the perfect situation for your energy and belief level. Why did you start this thread? What outcome are you hoping for?

[The Backward OX]

I'll see if I can answer everyone's head-scratchings in one sentence.

If she was intellectually-oriented you'd have possibly never heard a peep out of me.

[Gypsyrover]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I'll see if I can answer everyone's head-scratchings in one sentence.

If she was intellectually-oriented you'd have possibly never heard a peep out of me.

Ahhh honey....you might just need to really decide where things are at in your house. Does she live under the impression that you're a romantic-sort of couple? Does she have any idea that things are....less than satisfactory? Or does she think that if it isn't bad, it's good?

I think that if there's nothing emotionally, physically or intellectually *and* you have no desire to physically change the circumstances, you have the choice of either accepting that this is what your life is or else buy her a magazine subscription and some shiny things to look at and go build a life outside the house. Find friends that have your interests and just fill your time in other places. It's pretty simple really...she's clearly not your partner in any way, so quit trying to fit her into that hole and accept the situation for what it is and enjoy the parts that are there. Surely there's something? Dinners you make at home, or go out for? The friends you have in common? Then for the rest, find others. Or wallow. Those are basically the choices you have, if the assumption is that leaving isn't an option. But she isn't your world, it sounds like she's more like a physical location, there are still a lot of options out there.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

I'll see if I can answer everyone's head-scratchings in one sentence.

If she was intellectually-oriented you'd have possibly never heard a peep out of me.

So for 17 years you've had no intellectual stimulation from your partner? Okay. Cuz she didn't just become that way last year did she? There's a very high likelihood she'll still be intellectually un-stimulating in another 5. So where does that leave you? Where do you want to be in another 5 years?

Out of curiosity, what intrigued you about her when you first met?

[The Backward OX]

Umm . . . how do I answer that question and at the same time avoid being banned?

Seriously, I have a neurobiological deficit that makes me a slow learner as far as people are concerned.