Polyamoury? ?

[Jm4362]

Hello,

I will now explain to you my unusual situation and invite opinions.

I am a female college student, and recently met an intriguing man, older than me, that I was interested in dating. We went on an "official" date (a movie) and hung out a few times and all seemed to be going smoothly, but then we had a talk and he explained his views on relationships. I'll probably mangle it in the retelling, but here is roughly what he said--

That in a normal relationship with a boyfriend and girlfriend, it is expected that neither of them will date anyone else, and that idea makes him feel trapped. So he has created a situation he feels comfortable with, which is to date more than one girl, seriously. He has two girlfriends, both living about two hours away, who know about each other and accept the situation, which is called "polyamoury" or a "polyamourous relationship".

Of course, he said he was totally aware of the fact that it was not considered the norm and would understand if I NEVER EVER wanted to be in a relationship with him.

After thinking about it I decided that this situation is unfortunate for him. I don't consider myself an expert on the subject at all, but it seems that feeling trapped by a relationship is a pretty good signal to get out of it. Also, even if he is giving 100% to his relationships, each of the girlfriends is getting only 50%, while they give 100% to him (unless they also decide to get other boyfriends, which he would find acceptable).

I haven't talked to him since yesterday (when he told me about it) as it seems a very awkward situation for all parties. I don't plan to continue to date him, but he's a cool guy so I will remain friendly.

What do you all think? crazy, huh?

[Velvet]

Some people can pull that kind of arrangement off and are happy with it, so it's not crazy. Both polyamory and monogamy have their special rewards and challenges.

But it sounds like it's not for you.

As for me, I can barely handle the demands of one intimate relationship, much less more than one, so I'm satisfied to hang out close to the norm.

[ethereal]

It's really just people's choices. Also, be aware that 50% of some men can feel more than 100% with other men, hence why I think those two girlfriends are with the person you are describing. It may not be enough for you, and that's that Just be sure that it's not because of what society tells you is "normal", but rather your own decision about how good having the relationship makes you feel and how much love you are giving and receiving. It would be very sad to automatically judge and reject certain options just because of other people's rules about how relationships should be like, and potentially miss out on having love in your life (no matter what form or shape it takes).

It's crazy from society's point of view, but from the whole self-improvement/PUA(pickup artist) community it's fairly normal/standard. They've went out and improved themselves in every way (physically, emotionally, mentally, financially, sexually, spiritually) and thus have a higher capacity to give and receive love than most other people who would otherwise be stuck with their own issues or blocks. Contrary to what many people think, most of these so-called "players" actually do long for a monogamous, fulfilling relationship, but these self-made men often can't find a female counterpart that can give and receive love at the same level, i.e. gotten over her issues and became a fully trusting, interesting, radiant woman.

Of course, there are still some childish "players" who think racking up notches on the bedpost or having trophy girlfriends means they're winning the game of life; those you just ignore and stay away from

Specifically to your situation about his feelings of "being trapped", I really have no idea... could be just an excuse for polyamory, but could also be legitimate, i.e. if you only date one person at a time it is very easy to become infatuated, attached, and clingy, and believe that s/he is "the one".

*shrug* hope this helps, from a male / PUA point of view

[The David]

Polyamory is not for everyone. I'm not entirely sure it's for anyone, but I can't make that decision myself. Personally, it sounds very stressful to me.

I appreciate the maturity of this thread so far.

[빈센트]

It's a dumb idea mostly due to his justification. Society IS a trap. There's no point in limit this just to a relationship. Friendships, jobs, children etc., They require a commitment from you. Essentially, having more than one girl, from a logical point of view, means you're more trapped because it requires twice the commitment. He has to give 100% to both of them not 50%. There's a threshold to keep both women satisfied AND still call it a relationship. In my opinion, I think both of them are either booty calls or one is a true girlfriend and the other some sort of mistress. I mean. They're two hours away. If I was serious about polyamory I'd have both of them in close proximity. Or even in the same household.

There other loop holes.
Has he talked to the other girls about you?
How girlfriends does he need until he doesn't feel "trapped"?
What exactly is a relationship if the two girls are allowed to date?

If I was a man in a poor community who was slightly more well off than the average population. I might consider the option of more than one wife. But there is a limit. More than two or three women is pushing it.

This guy better be downright honest, hardworking and gorgeous if he wants some plausibility on his end.

I'm certainly not against whatever he's doing. But he better start creating his own definitions for whatever he's doing.

[Erock]

Hum... I can see maybe having more than girl for purely physical relationships, but like serious long term polygamous relationships? That seems like it would be tough on everyone.

At least he was honest though....

Erock

[elainevdw]

I very much disagree with polygamy because it's utterly unfair to women. And I suspect that polyamory is just a way to cheat on a girl without lying to her.

It's really too bad that people do this to each other. The culture of political correctness makes people think that it's okay to do it and not okay to criticize it.

If his girlfriends are polyamorous too, then good for them -- they're not in as "serious" realtionship as he thinks. If they're not polyamorous, I really pity them because they're going to spend the majority of their time brainwashing themselves out of feeling some very natural feelings of jealousy. Why do you think they live 2 hours away from each other?

I wouldn't get into that sort of mess for a whole heck of a lot of reasons. If you want to philosophize whether it's moral or not, whether humans are meant to be monogamous or not, whether it contributes to a society that suppresses women or not, whatever -- but you can't deny the fact that adding in two other girls exponentially increases your risk of disease. With a monogamous partner, your risk is pretty low, given that you both start the relationship clean and don't cheat on each other. But when that partner has two other partners? If any one of you guys slip up, it's the ghonnorealsyphallaids for the lot of you.

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by elainevdw

I very much disagree with polygamy because it's utterly unfair to women. And I suspect that polyamory is just a way to cheat on a girl without lying to her. (snip)

Probably good to note that there are plenty of women who choose a polyamorous lifestyle...its just not a male thing...

I'll preface this by saying that I'm sure there are some people that make this lifestyle work and find it satisfying. Since I'm pretty much of the opinion that whatever consenting adults want to do with each other is their own business, I'm not really here to condemn it or any other lifestyle.

In many cases I've seen, however, it is just a hipper way to tell a significant other that you're going to cheat on them. If a woman I was interested in told me she was polyamorous that could be code for "run away fast". Many of the self proclaimed 'polyamorous' people I've known were a) obsessed with sex to an unhealthy degree b) too immature to commit to a particular person, and in some cases a particular type or even gender of person or c) they're just plain nuts.

Again, this is just my experience--I'm not looking for crackbacks from any polyamorous types out there. If your lifestyle--this or any other--is the free choice of everyone involved and is something that you find to be fulfilling good for you...

[The David]

That's a good post and a much-needed dissention from what seems to be the popular opinion here. However, there are a few problems I see.

I very much disagree with polygamy because it's utterly unfair to women.

There's two sides to a relationship, more if you're polyamorous. Have you ever thought of how stressful that would be for the man? You may think he's just in it for easy sex, and he may be, but not every polygamist is an overbearing alpha male with a commitment problem. Women choose this lifestyle, too. They know what they're getting when they start. If they don't know, then we're talking about a deeper problem than polygamy.

And I suspect that polyamory is just a way to cheat on a girl without lying to her.

I'm a little suspicious when I hear polygamy stories as well. However, you're still thinking of these women as sex slaves. They aren't.

Why do you think they live 2 hours away from each other?

Well, there could be any number of reasons for that. Maybe they like where they live. Maybe they hate each other for other reasons (I know a lot of women who hate each other).

[Mayo]

I have thought of living in polyamourious way of life, but after considering it a bit i came to conclusion that i will loose a big way.

It's like business, if you scatter your resources on ten projects you will do a very lousy job, but if you concentrate on one you will most probably be very successful. Having jobs physically displaced around the globe is tedious as it's fun (^_^), so are the relationships - in the end you gain a lot but also loose a lot!

[ddgrooves]

Maybe I've gotten old. - Or maybe I don't understand. Either way - I understand that people like it. Truth be told it has only been inthe last 300 years or so where people chose to think 1 man 1 woman children and nobody else was normal. Actually we used to live in groups where it was a community of people who lived together sometimes switching partners - (I don't really know much about that myself) and creating a unit for personal happiness and efficiency. The people who liked to watch the children - did that and were personally fulfilled. And so on and so forth.

I agree with that model. (I guess we kind of do that with daycare and what not - but the daycar people I've met don't seem all that fulfilled) AS for the relationship with 2 women 2 hours each and extra dating on top of that = what a headache.

[jkmuller]

I think people are generally hostile to the idea of polyamory because it seems like its related to polygamy or some strange form of rationalized cheating on one's spouse. That said, there are people who really aren't satisfied with one person and are very comfortable in relationships with multiple people. One form of this is a "love triangle" with three people that are all in one relationship. The problems are that it can be much more difficult to manage such a relationship, but lets consider some of the frequently cited benefits:

• If being in love with one person is great, couldn't loving two people be even better?
• Having more than one person around (say a stable "marriage" between three people) could be a big help. 3 incomes, 3 pairs of eyes and hands to watch the kids, etc.

Of course, the fact that 2 person relationships are the only legitimate kind of relationship in America truly damages the practicality of alternative forms of relationships. There are lots of other possible combinations, some of which are condemned by society ("promiscuous" people), sometimes with good reason. I'm personally really interested by the idea of a three person relationship, but at the same time I realize that these things happen and are not forced into. Having mutual love between three people is quite a feat.

This site is a great resource for people who are curious about the idea.

[Jm4362]

Well, to clarify, he said that his girlfriends both live two hours away from him, but in the same area as each other. Also, they are friendly towards each other. And sex is only a partial factor, as he has sex with one of them and not the other. (This guy is big on communication.)

Other than that, thank you for your responses. It's good to hear other viewpoints.

~Jm4362

[Cron]

I knew two polyamorus women.

They weren't sluts. They would only sleep with people who they would become good friends with first and be friends with apart from sex. Their husbands were also free to date.

These people said it was about having so much love to give they felt unnatural limiting themselves to one person. However, it was clear to everyone that the person's main partner was their "primary"......everyone else knew they were just a good friend who they would date.

In a way it is flattering. Each partner knew his/her partner could see anyone, but chose to spend their lives with them.

I thought it was also healthy in a way far beyond how I could ever be.

Nobody in these relationships ever felt threatened. People often became good friends with their partner's lovers. One woman was even happy when her best friend and husband ended up in bed together. She saw it as two of the people whom she loved the most bonding and becoming even more part of her.

[The David]

I've heard of some bisexual people who are attracted to both genders for entirely different reasons. It sort of makes sense for them to have two partners, and it seems like it would take the pressure off of the first partner, so one partner wouldn't have to be both a 'man' and a 'woman' to his/her partner.

[andrew]

You've been on what, one date? It's dating, you're supposed to date numurous people. Then after a while you find you like one particular person the most, you eventually cut ties with the others and start a one on one relationship.

I can understand if it's been like a year or 2, but you just started dating, I don't see what the problem is. He really doesn't need to be justifying himself like that though, and in such lost his chances with you. If you prefer to be one on one right away, it's your choice, but it will take you a lot longer to find that *one special someone* that way than it would be to see a few people here and there and be open about it.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Jm4362

Also, even if he is giving 100% to his relationships, each of the girlfriends is getting only 50%, while they give 100% to him (unless they also decide to get other boyfriends, which he would find acceptable).

I think that this is the most indicative statement out of all of them. It reminds me of the wisdom of Solomon:

Originally Posted by 1 Kings 3:24-25

Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other."

Do you love your parents any less when you become married? Should you be jealous of every new child that comes into the house? Is your ability to love so limited and finite that there will never be another person in your life but the one?

Robin Dunbar states that human beings can maintain approximately 150 relationships at a reasonable level of intimacy, because of an upper limit on how much time can be spent on social grooming. I would extrapolate, from this, that the attention demanded by other interests, like one's hobbies, work, ambitions, and passions, further take up mindshare, and that higher levels of intimacy count as more than one "person".

So is there a finite amount of attention you can devote to others? Of course. But it's rarely so small as to make a difference between "one person" and "two people".

[The David]

I had never really looked at it that way before. Also, it's not like the guy isn't getting anything out of those wives. He may be having to give a lot, but he's also getting twice as much...I think.

[Jm4362]

Originally Posted by andrew

You've been on what, one date? It's dating, you're supposed to date numurous people. Then after a while you find you like one particular person the most, you eventually cut ties with the others and start a one on one relationship.

I can understand if it's been like a year or 2, but you just started dating, I don't see what the problem is. He really doesn't need to be justifying himself like that though, and in such lost his chances with you. If you prefer to be one on one right away, it's your choice, but it will take you a lot longer to find that *one special someone* that way than it would be to see a few people here and there and be open about it.

I didn't mean to sound selfish about it. I just figured I'd back off since he's already been with both of these other girls for years and I don't feel like trying to compete in the "girlfriend" area, when there are other guys out there who are not in an established relationship at this time. I understand that at first people can date multiple people--but that's not what this particular situation is about.



@Michael Chui: To respond to your earlier post--I understand where you're coming from. Love is not finite. However, I'd rather give this guy my love as friendship than as romantic love now that I know about the situation. This is because I would not be comfortable with the situation. Instead of "splitting the child" as in the parable you cited, I will be like the mother who let the child go to the other woman, and give up my claim to him.

In my case, I am looking for a one-on-one romantic relationship, but new friends are always welcome.

~Jm4362

[ScottLee]

I'll go ahead and speak on this because I feel I can offer a point of view that may be helper to the topic starter. I am a polyamorous male. I've been with my girlfriend Kim for close to a year now, and since that time have been with a few other girls, none of which wanted to stay with me at the end.

It's tough.

For anyone who is dealing with a complicated marriage, take whatever you've got there and multiply it by 2, or 3, or 4, and you will start to get an idea of what polygamy might be like. It is also important to understand that polyamory and polygamy are two different things. Polyamory is non-marriage, polygamy is often related to multiple marriages itself. What can also be said is that for both of these concepts, sex is not the center focus - the center focus is the relationship, just as it would be in a long term monogamous relationship. Polyamory with sex as a central focus is not polyamory at all, it is swinging.

I first starting seeing Kim right before the time I was going to be getting into polyamory, and she has adapted through all of it to this point in time now. It is different than how I was during monogamous relationships. There is no one single way to carry out a polyamorous relationship, but here is how I carry out mine. The #1 rule which must NOT be violated by ANYONE involved is honesty. There must be full, unrestricted, totally honest communication. However, having said that there are some boundaries and guidelines that have been established. Kim and I have generally agreed that for anyone I am with for a long period of time, I do not have to give any gory details of the sex life. But must either of us be honest about the sex lives we have had? Of course.

But when you're talking about sexual honesty, you come to the concept of dating other people. For one, let me say that Kim does not want to be polyamorous, and at this point she wants to be with only me. I've confronted her with a decision to leave me and move onto another guy who is monogamous several times before, and each time she chooses to stay with me. Though sometimes it has been painful for her. Does it have to be painful for all women involved? The answer is a whole-hearted NO.

For any girl that I am considering being with romantically, it is a gradual process. There is no sex on a first date, or second date, or third date even. There is full communication over my terms of a relationship, as well as hers. For the other girls I've been with, I've always gotten to know them as friends before ever considering being with them romantically. If I want to bring a new girl into the relationship, it is important to me that Kim accept the new girl and that Kim is okay with who the new girl is as a person. The girls MUST get to know each other as people.

The girls I'm with are free to date other guys and be with other guys on the condition that I meet the guys first. Basically, anyone who is in the polyamorous relationship must agree or disagree as a whole as to who, or anyone at all, is permitted to enter the multi-relationship. Nothing happens prior to this point.

Do you have to think about disease more? Yes, you do. Do you have to communicate a lot more? Oh yes. Is it more complicated, more difficult, and can it be painful if the rules are broken? Yes, yes, and more yes.

So with all of these bad points, why do I continue? Some posters have mentioned it - it is because I simply love more than one girl and I do not feel I should be restrained from that point. It's more difficult for everyone involved, and if the man is serious about maintaining his relationships and keeping his girls happy, it puts a lot of time and stress strain on the guy usually where it puts more emotional strain on women(because most women you meet are often monogamous and they do not understand the concept).

There was one girl I was with for a short period of time and for me, I thought that she might have been the perfect match to be with me while I was with Kim. While I had a great time during my time with both her and Kim, she was denying her own feelings. She broke down very shortly afterward and told me that she "couldn't handle it." It's definitely not for everyone. But are the awards worth a shot? I say, yes!

Life is rich and vibrant when you are able to be with more than one girl that you love and care for deeply, and who you are able to spend your life with. When the multi-point relationship is working the way it's meant to, there is never a moment when you feel unfulfilled, and you often feel like together, you can all take on the world, no matter what happens. During the periods where I've been with more than one girl at once, I was smiling a lot more and was overall in a better mood with people in general. And some people point to it being nothing more than an attempt to enrich sex life - it does enrich your sex life, but again - is that the point? No. Love is about being there for one another, companionship, working together, taking care of one another, having fun together, and just being happy.

[Michael Chui]

Discomfort is a perfectly valid reason for not getting into the relationship.

But please don't think of it as a competition; this implies not only a prize, but also that the prize is the possibility of possession and ownership. While I realize that, for many people, this is certainly why they want a relationship, I'm gambling on the assumption that this is not as common as it seems.