What does it mean to cheat?

[amj]

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.


Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by amj

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.


Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

I consider cheating to be based on the intention of the person, not the action itself. So if my partner kissed a guy on the cheek to seduce him, cheating; but if he's just a platonic friend and she's happy to see him, not cheating. I am a very intuitive person and so people's intentions mean a lot to me. (ie, if you shoot a suicide bomber dead before he blows up and kills a dozen civilians, you're a hero. If you shoot a random person dead to see him suffer, you're a criminal - same action, different intention, different context)


And as far as monogamy, I say let people do what they want to do, although not at the expense of others of course.

[amj]

I like that. I pretty much feel the same way. Why do you think monogamy is practiced more than polygamy?

[Gene]

It depends on the couple involved and their understanding of what is correct within the relationship. Thre is no one universal answer. What seems good in my relationships might seem less than desirable others reationshps.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by amj

Why do you think monogamy is practiced more than polygamy?

Is it? I always thought polygamy was more common. Not in the United States, but worldwide, I mean.

From Wikipedia: According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of the 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry.

[gigij]

I think that if your not comfortable telling your partner something that you've done then it's probably cheating - or at least innappropriate. Anything you feel you have to keep secret ...

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by amj

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.


Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

To me, Cheating is engaging in anything intimately with another person that you would be embarrassed about if your partner found out. That simple.

Monogamy is a big deal only to those who have explicitly or implicitly chosen to be in a monogamous relationship. Please define polygamous?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by amj

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.

I think that everyone has their own thoughts and opinions. In a general way, cheating to me means secretly breaking a relationship rule. So if one partner does something that both partners have decided not to do and does not tell the other partner, that is cheating, no matter what the thing is that they did and had decided not to do. Each couple has their own definition of what is okay and what is not okay. It varies.

Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

Monogamy is not a big deal for everybody, that's why some people are polyamorous.

There still can be some cheating in polyamorous relationships if we define cheating as breaking relationship rules secretly.

Polygamy is defined as being married to several people if I'm not wrong. I think this is not very different from being married to only one person, cheating-wise.

[amj]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Is it? I always thought polygamy was more common. Not in the United States, but worldwide, I mean.

From Wikipedia: According to the Ethnographic Atlas Codebook, of the 1231 societies noted, 186 were monogamous. 453 had occasional polygyny, 588 had more frequent polygyny, and 4 had polyandry.

Really? I didn't know that. I know in Africa polygamy is more popular. Where else?

[joyfulgrowth]

What does it mean to cheat?

Hmm, maybe that you view your relationship in terms of right/wrong? (like a law that you either keep, or break and be caught + punished, or break and manage not to be caught)

I prefer to rather focus on the quality of connection between partners, no matter if the agreed boundaries are rather tight (in a monogamous relationship) or rather loose (in some sort of polyamorous relationship).

So instead of using static terms such as cheating, I'd connect around e.g. my needs for love, trust, authenticity etc, and in what ways I'd like my partner to contribute to meeting them.

And even IF you are heart-broken because your partner did something that you don't enjoy, mourning needs you hold dear will help you better get over it than focusing on the wrongness of his or her action (unless, of course, you think you need the rage and blame to manage to break up).

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by amj

If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

Have you ever taken a closer look into polyamory? Polyamory does not mean sleeping with whoever comes along. It can mean having two committed relationships, it can mean three people having a relationship with each other, it can mean having agreements that certain forms of closeness with other people are in the range of the relationship (anything from sharing about it ahead of time, sharing after something happened that would affect the relationship, or explicitely agreeing not to share about it), and many more things. Virtually no polyamorous relationships are alike, and they require much more social skills than a classical monogamous agreement. "The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities" is a good reading on this. Of course, you could also go for no relationship and just being in the moment, but I wouldn't call that polyamory.

[180]

There are our ideals,
And then there's the reality.

Face it, most of us have some immature child book fantasy love at first sight passionate romantic la de da classic novel type thinking.... Our partner will never cheat and we will be together forever.... whoohoo break out the doves and rice. but frankly, you could shuffle through 8000000000 different people and still come up, kaput.

Which is why so many cheat. Women and sometimes even men ALWAYS dream of perfect love. Knight in shining armor. Or sometimes love that could be. Some people are lucky.

But for most of us, we have to realize that won't happen. We need to settle for someone, we grow old. And face it, most of us aren't good enough to catch our ideal (wow that's gonna put a damper on your self confidence, my bad).

So as soon as someone even SEEMS closer to the knight in shinning armor... or in the case of guys... just any other woman... lol... we tend to cheat.

By cheat I mean, look, think, or feel like being with another person. I think everyone cheats in one way or another. I dream/cheat about being with christine brinkley every time I watch a national lampoon film. My girlfriends are head over heals for brad pitt, and I'm sure sometimes his face is on my body during the course of the night.

It's a sad cold reality. WE all want someone BETTER than what we have. It's in our nature. I hate cheating frankly, but we all have accept that at any time, no matter how much we trust our partner, we never really know if they will cheat. I think pretty much most people will drop our partner if someone "better" comes along. By better I mean someone closer to their ideal (he/she may not actually be better and that's why cheating sucks because people are stupid and cheat for dumba$$ reasons)

outside of marrige, cheating is a normal thing. And is actually sometimes necessary if we are those "perfect love" romantics. Sometimes someone just comes along and gives us that feeling. We need to follow our gut sometimes. But then again... we are being romantics, cheaters hurt other people because they are still in a fairytale storybook of perfect love (or just selfishly horny). Either way, it's not good. Cheaters are still immature. The proper way to deal with it is to openly and honestly talk about these feelings with their partner. Share them while still keeping face, respect, and care for their partner. Have a conversation and resolve it like Adults.

But most cheaters are too insecure for this kind of mature thinking. they will want their cake, eat it too, and then regurgitate it and eat it again. They want their GF/BF but they want sex with another, or kissing or feelings whatever.

Humans are such weak creatures and flippant to their emotions and barbaric drives. Meh...

[vartann]

cheating is winning without the elation

[Betrade]

Originally Posted by 180

It's a sad cold reality. WE all want someone BETTER than what we have. It's in our nature. ..

I completely disagree; and we're all different. What's true for you or another isn't necessarily true for everybody.

When I was married, I never wanted anyone else. I had a wife and 4 kids. Why would I ever want to bring a third party into that type of family dynamic and cause that type of pain and suffering to those whom I love? When I was younger and was engaged to another woman, but the marriage never happened, I didn't want anyone else then either. If I had, I would never have intended to marry her. There's no point in getting married if people can't be faithful; unless there are other reasons for the marriage and both parties are aware of those reasons and agree to them.

I've always been faithful to my girlfriends and my wife. If I really wanted someone else, I would end the relationship and then move on; but never cheat. IMO; that's one of the most hurtful things a person can do to someone that they claim to be completely committed to. If they're not committed, then they shouldn't claim to be. That's just lying. I've dated women and told them up front that I wasn't committed to them and they were cool with that. It's called honesty.

I believe that some people just want to have their cake and eat it too, so they cheat; or in other cases, their current partner isn't fulfilling their needs, whatever they may be; so they look elsewhere to have those needs met. It's not really a complicated thing. People are either committed to one another or they're not.

If they're not, then they shouldn't claim that they are and shouldn't marry someone they have no intention of being committed to; unless they have a marriage not based on commitment; but knowingly marry for other reasons. Marriages of convenience do exist, and if both parties are aware of that and it works for them, then fine, but pretending to be truly committed to one person and cheating is just wrong because it's a lie. Better to get out of the marriage and then move on IMO.

No one has to cheat and no one is forced to cheat. Cheating is a conscious, willful choice; no matter how it's rationalized and/or justified in the mind. No matter how strong an attraction may be, there's always a way out for those who choose to take it. Those who choose otherwise should be ready and willing to face whatever consequences come along as a result of their actions; and very often, they learn that it wasn't worth it. There are reasons why so many affairs end and most don't result in another marriage. It's not real life.

The two cheaters usually show their best facets to one another but not the real, day to versions of themselves; so it very often is a sort of fantasy that's played out and acted upon, but isn't reality nor is it anything close to what life would be like if they were truly together all the time; day to day. Many people leave their marriages and marry their cheating partner; only to realize that the person they thought that they knew never really existed; and many people are often hurt in the process. I've seen this many times.

I would advise any married person who isn't satisfied with their marriage to either openly communicate how they feel and try and address and correct whatever issues exist, or get out, THEN go looking for a new partner if that's what they want. It's far less complicated and far easier on everyone, especially where children are involved. Once a third party is brought into the picture, it complicates an already problematic situation.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by amj

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.


Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

I believe that cheating is simply practicing any form of dishonesty with your partner. That could mean sleeping with someone else when you've agreed to be monogamous. That could mean sleeping with someone else without discussing it fist when you've agreed to only have other sexual partners that are agreed on. It could even mean spending time alone with someone of the opposite sex when you've agreed to never do that.

It seems that in most relationships the problems arise when these things are not discussed, and one partner has different beliefs and assumptions that the other partner.

[marito]

You should agree with your partner on the very beginning of your relationship what is cheating for you. I'm not in an open relationship, but I won't make a big deal if my GF kisses one random guy in a club one day (and vice versa.) But we won't tolerate lies, other lovers, etc.. If it's casual, it's ok. The big stuff, no!

But make it clear from the beginning.. It will save you lots of problems later!

[ar81]

Originally Posted by amj

In a commited relationship, what do you constitute as cheating? Everyone has their own thoughts and opinions so I want to hear what you think.


Here is another question. Why is monogamy such a big deal? If we were polygamous there would be no such thing as cheating.

If your partner had someone else. Would you consider it "cheating"? or would you just consider it "natural"?

[amj]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

Have you ever taken a closer look into polyamory? Polyamory does not mean sleeping with whoever comes along.

I haven't looked at polymory closely. I thought it meant to have more than one intimate realationship at once. And if people were involved in more than one intimate relationship, then cheating would not be possible.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by amj

I haven't looked at polymory closely. I thought it meant to have more than one intimate realationship at once. And if people were involved in more than one intimate relationship, then cheating would not be possible.

If a person is involved in 2 (or even 100) committed relationships it would still be possible to cheat by breaking the commitment and going outside of those relationships. For example, some polyamorous relationships consist of 3 people all of whom are committed to each other. To become involved with someone who is outside of that committed relationship (or to try to bring someone else in without agreement by the other partners) could be cheating.

[amj]

Originally Posted by ar81

If your partner had someone else. Would you consider it "cheating"? or would you just consider it "natural"?

I would consider it cheating. If my partner wants to be with me, then she can't have other partners.

[amj]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

If a person is involved in 2 (or even 100) committed relationships it would still be possible to cheat by breaking the commitment and going outside of those relationships.

I never knew that. That's a little strange to me.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by amj

And if people were involved in more than one intimate relationship, then cheating would not be possible.

Of course it would be possible.

Little example: person A is polyamorous and has three boyfriends. She has an agreement with her boyfriends that she is free to have sex and/or start new relationships with other men, but only after talking about it with all three boyfriends and asking them if they agree with the potential new partner. Then she meets person B and secretly starts a new relationship with B without talking about B with her three other boyfriends. That is cheating.

Note: not all polyamorous people follow this rule, this was just an example.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by amj

I never knew that. That's a little strange to me.

Why so? Because your idea about polyamory was that it meant everybody just doing whatever they wanted without there being any agreements?

As I said, polyamory really requires a high consciousness and good communication skills. If you are struggling to handle one relationship, polyamory isn't a cure.

[amj]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Of course it would be possible.

Little example: person A is polyamorous and has three boyfriends. She has an agreement with her boyfriends that she is free to have sex and/or start new relationships with other men, but only after talking about it with all three boyfriends and asking them if they agree with the potential new partner. Then she meets person B and secretly starts a new relationship with B without talking about B with her three other boyfriends. That is cheating.

Note: not all polyamorous people follow this rule, this was just an example.

In an open relationship why would she have to talk about it with all three boyfriends? Why would the boyfriends thinnk it was necessary to agree with the new potential partner?

[rei]

Originally Posted by amj

In an open relationship why would she have to talk about it with all three boyfriends? Why would the boyfriends thinnk it was necessary to agree with the new potential partner?

because that was the arrangement set up beforehand by the people in that relationship.

if i'm not mistaken, polyamory is not always just "open", be intimate with whomever, whenever. there is commitment involved, it is just not monogamous commitment.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by amj

In an open relationship why would she have to talk about it with all three boyfriends? Why would the boyfriends thinnk it was necessary to agree with the new potential partner?

Because polyamory does not mean no committment!!

It really depends on the type of agreement they have, as pointed out by various posters.

Please, do yourself a favor and read from different sources how poly couples handle their relationships. It really has nothing at all to do with not committing. It is just a very different process, handled different in each relationship.

It is also a myth that there never is jealousy in poly relationships. You just handle it in a less static way when it comes up, trying to really hear the needs of everybody involved instead of seeing each other as enemies.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by amj

In an open relationship why would she have to talk about it with all three boyfriends? Why would the boyfriends thinnk it was necessary to agree with the new potential partner?

There is not only one kind of "open relationship". There are all kinds of polyamorous relationships.

- Some people decide that they can do whatever they want with anybody and don't need to talk about it but can talk about it if they want.
- Other people decide that they can do whatever they want with anybody but must not talk about it with their partner(s) and not ask their partner(s) any questions.
- Other people decide that they can do whatever they want with anybody but must talk about it with all of their partners
- Some people are free to have sex with others as much as they want, but no serious relationships.
- Some people can have other relationships, but only if their partner(s) agree with the new person.
- And a lot more possibilities! Really, there is no rule for everybody.

The point when it comes to cheating is that if you don't follow the rules, whatever those rules are, and you do so in secret, then that is cheating.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by amj

why would she have to talk about it with all three boyfriends?

In a monogamous relationship, why do you "have to" talk with your partner if you get a promotion and are likely to be less home?

You don't have to at all, it just makes sense to involve somebody you are close with in decisions that will affect him.

And unless your understanding of polyamory basically is being single, it changes things if you fall in love and spend most of your time with partner 4. Or if you have all been tested for STD and have agreed to only have safer sex with other partners. Or if talking about connections with others before or after it happens is your way of living trust in an open relationship.

Agreements differ, though - talking before is only one possible type of agreement.

[IFeelGood]

I think that technical terms and agreements are one way of judging whether or not someone is cheating but really when someone cheats or crosses a line they know it in their heart.

It is possible that what one person defines as cheating, another does not, that is why communication is key...

[amj]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

Because polyamory does not mean no committment!!

It really depends on the type of agreement they have, as pointed out by various posters.

Please, do yourself a favor and read from different sources how poly couples handle their relationships. It really has nothing at all to do with not committing. It is just a very different process, handled different in each relationship.

It is also a myth that there never is jealousy in poly relationships. You just handle it in a less static way when it comes up, trying to really hear the needs of everybody involved instead of seeing each other as enemies.

Interesting