Paying Prostitutes For Talk Time, Not For Sex

[Algernon]

I and some of my associates are planning to do some investigation of "the least of these" in society: the homeless, the down and out, the drug addicts, street prostitutes, etc. Obviously there is some overlap in these categories.

This project involves documenting life stories and broken dreams. We don't want to do this as part of any existing program. We compensate our interviewees in some manner. In the case of the homeless, we usually just talk over a meal (or several meals), and often the meals are considered to be compensation enough, although we do try to go farther and throw them several lifelines.

In the case of prostitutes, however, many of them have pimps who expect them to "earn" so a simple meal may not be enough. We would be willing to pay their usual fee for, say, an hour of their time, but there are some concerns. One is that if police witness the transaction, often handing over cash to someone in that line of work is "enough" (not really, but that's the way some cops see it) for an arrest. Also, if we talk to a great number of street prostitutes, and, by the questions we ask, end up causing many of them to leave that life and pursue their life purpose, we might end up the target of some angry and violent pimps.

The ideal solution would be to get a pimp and his "stable" to leave "the life" together, but we haven't figured out how to swing that.

Any insight would be appreciated, especially such from current or former participants in "the life".

[cylon]

I'm going to reply just to acknowledge the awesome depeche mode lyric in your signature.

Do you think that you can convince people to change? Seems like people prefer to come to these life changes in their own.

[blossom]

I guess it depends whether the person you choose to interview has been at it for a long time or is just a newbie.

If they have been in "the life" for a long time, it is highly unlikely that any questions you throw at them will make a difference. They have probably been in the care of social workers at some point in the past who have tried to help them leave, but have returned because it's all they know and they are, in a strange way "in love" or what is their version of love with their pimp who even though he probably beats them up regularly and makes them feel worthless, is still the closest thing to a "daddy" they have ever had. Sad but true in some cases.

So, for your own safety in terms of not wanting the pimp to come after you, it's probably best to try and find someone who has been at it for a long time...and you can probably tell just from looking at them, how jaded they are.

You might, alternatively, seek out social workers who work with prostitutes and this would be a much safer alternative for you and the prostitute...you're not the only one who would get a beating if the pimp found out!

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by cylon

I'm going to reply just to acknowledge the awesome depeche mode lyric in your signature.

Another big time DM fan. Cool! How many of us are there on this board, do you think? You, me, Steve, who else?

Originally Posted by cylon

Do you think that you can convince people to change?

Well, no, actually. If you are trying to convince or persuade, you are doing something wrong.

On the other hand, inspiring change happens all the time.

Some may consider that to be a subtle distinction, but it is a powerful one!

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Algernon

Another big time DM fan. Cool! How many of us are there on this board, do you think? You, me, Steve, who else?

Probably not that many. They're the biggest influence in my creative life though, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by Algernon

Well, no, actually. If you are trying to convince or persuade, you are doing something wrong.

On the other hand, inspiring change happens all the time.

Some may consider that to be a subtle distinction, but it is a powerful one!

Well good luck in achieving it.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by blossom

If they have been in "the life" for a long time, it is highly unlikely that any questions you throw at them will make a difference. They have probably been in the care of social workers at some point in the past who have tried to help them leave, but have returned because it's all they know and they are, in a strange way "in love" or what is their version of love with their pimp who even though he probably beats them up regularly and makes them feel worthless, is still the closest thing to a "daddy" they have ever had. Sad but true in some cases.

Trying to "help" them leave often increases their sense of shame, which makes it even harder to leave.

As I said to cylon, we're not trying to "persuade". We just listen and accept. When others, especially "conscious" people, accept them as they are, they often begin to accept themselves. Then the growth "just happens". Nothing needs to be forced.

Originally Posted by blossom

You might, alternatively, seek out social workers who work with prostitutes and this would be a much safer alternative for you and the prostitute...you're not the only one who would get a beating if the pimp found out!

This is good advice. The social workers won't be part of our dialogs, but at least they can give us advice about whom to talk to, where, when, etc.

Thanks, blossom.

[blossom]

That's true. Accepting them as is will probably do a lot more good than any other strategy. Good one.

You could try doing the same with the pimp, though penetrating his world and getting him to trust your intentions may be tricky, it would take some convincing that you're not cops.

[rei]

depending on your resources, you could go to Las Vegas where prostitution is legal. then you will be better able to determine whether the prostitute actually has a pimp (not all of them do).

i read an article in a magazine (SciAm Mind) and apparently many Johns pay for the conversation and the connection, not as much just for the hookup.

that's about it. also wanna say i love Depeche Mode too! great lyric choice.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Algernon

...
One is that if police witness the transaction, often handing over cash to someone in that line of work is "enough" (not really, but that's the way some cops see it) for an arrest.

Talk to the police about this before you talk with a prostitute. They can also give pointers about the pimps and how to deal with them.

Also, if we talk to a great number of street prostitutes, and, by the questions we ask, end up causing many of them to leave that life and pursue their life purpose, we might end up the target of some angry and violent pimps.

It'll cost you quite a lot of money then. What's the going rate for 1 hour? How many working girls do you plan to speak with?

What is the purpose of these talks?

[Daffy Duck]

I've heard of some people trying this before and some prostitutes get pissed. They're like, "Look, are we gonna f*ck or what? Stop wasting my time!" It was surprising to hear because if I were in their position, I'd rather get paid for talking!

[blossom]

I thought this too at first, but I guess it's because they aren't used to any john just wanting to talk...it's not really their job description and they might jump to the conclusion that the person is a freak or a wierdo because no-one's ever been interested in anything they have to say, that's not what their mouth is for in their experience and their world... most people don't really care about prostitutes, sadly, so they would obviously think it was wierd for someone to all of a sudden take an interest in them and their story!

Though I have met ex-prostitutes who worked in brothels and they are a different kettle of fish (no pun intended there.) The woman I spoke with about her experience said that she would often play the role of listener to many men who had shitty homelives and lots of problems. Some of them have hearts of gold and consider it part of the job to be compassionate towards their clients.

Maybe the OP might want to consider interviewing prostitutes that work in brothels...they may not have as many defences to break through? Then again, I don't really know.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by rei

depending on your resources, you could go to Las Vegas where prostitution is legal. then you will be better able to determine whether the prostitute actually has a pimp (not all of them do).

Prostitution is not legal in LV. Many other Nevada counties, yes, but not LV.

[Daffy Duck]

In LV it's legal to pay them to talk to you. If they choose to have sex with you, that's fine, but that's not what you paid them for.

[Brutha]

In the case of prostitutes, however, many of them have pimps who expect them to "earn" so a simple meal may not be enough. We would be willing to pay their usual fee for, say, an hour of their time, but there are some concerns. One is that if police witness the transaction, often handing over cash to someone in that line of work is "enough" (not really, but that's the way some cops see it) for an arrest. Also, if we talk to a great number of street prostitutes, and, by the questions we ask, end up causing many of them to leave that life and pursue their life purpose, we might end up the target of some angry and violent pimps.

Go to the local policy station to talk about your project beforehand and talk to the policemen.
If you are upfront with them they don't have a reason to interfere with your project.

[Michelle]

My husband is a journalist and says the answer is simply not to pay them.

You need the people who speak to you to be free anyway, and not feed you answers you want to hear just because you are giving them money.

It doesn't really make sense to talk to the police in an area where prostitution is illegal, since they'll probably tail and arrest whomever you are talking - if not on the day of your interview, then on the next. Your interviewees need confidentiality and security and to trust you. Those things are the most valuable you can offer.

Getting in touch with prostitutes and their pimps isn't all that hard (at least where I am). You just need a bit of courage and to make it clear from the get go who you are and who you aren't.

[Algernon]

Please comment further, especially if you see any "flaws" in the plan.

Basically we do a documentary, within a stealth documentary. There will be a few official cameramen (and/or women) but there are always more of us with Flip Video and such working from the shadows, so if anyone is "forced" to turn off the camera, there are always other cameras recording any encounter, whether with rogue cops or angry pimps.

This also means that rarely will we have to "pay the going rate" for her time. We'll just be "negotiating" and after waving a twenty in her face (or lower -- whatever she'll refuse) we walk away "angrily" when she won't accept that. At some point we "accidentally" drop a business card with an e-mail address and a website. Those who are ready will contact us.

Thanks again, all who have commented!

[TonyToneTone]

Few ways you can do this: 1) Go to a brothel and explain what you're there for.

2) Call a police deparment and ask if there are prostitutes you can speak to.

3) Ask them what's up. You might not have to give them anything.

[blossom]

I doubt they won't want some sort of payment for their time, since they could be making money working instead, and it could mean a beating from their pimp if they don't bring home enough.

Police aren't usually that helpful, and they may see them as just getting in the way in an already over-crowded police station. Or it could be quiet that day? Who knows really?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by blossom

I doubt they won't want some sort of payment for their time, since they could be making money working instead, and it could mean a beating from their pimp if they don't bring home enough.

Why? Prostitute just like anybody else don't work 24/7 at all. Most people who work absolutely love to be interviewed about what they do if they don't fear it brings negative consequences like bad publicity to their name. You could probably interview the pimp and he'd love it too. I'd go with the advice from the professional journalist who does this for a living.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Algernon

...
This also means that rarely will we have to "pay the going rate" for her time. We'll just be "negotiating" and after waving a twenty in her face (or lower -- whatever she'll refuse) we walk away "angrily" when she won't accept that.

So you're abusing them? Not paying them but playing games? Not quite respectful. They don't need that kind of treatment from self-appointed do-gooders or curious citizens with their own agenda. I recommend honesty and treating them as you would want to be treated yourself if you were in their position. They are on the streets to make money. Not to play silly games.

At some point we "accidentally" drop a business card with an e-mail address and a website. Those who are ready will contact us.

I think you over-estimate how many street prostitutes have computers or use the internet. Better add a phone number.

I asked you before: what's the purpose of all this? A documentary on street life? Great. So what? How will that change anything?

[ellie]

You will find someone that will share their stories with you, without needing to pay. You just got to believe it.

Most people are obliging...or find a prostitute that doesn't have a pimp. If you ask around I am sure someone in that field will have suggestions of where to look.

This is my speciality, getting things from people that you wouldn't think that would help out

That reminds me I saw this homeless couple/friends on the train once, I was so annoyed I didn't have a video camera on me, because boy did she have a story to tell. She was the loudest and most well dressed homeless person I ever seen and I could hear her relating her story on the streets to her friend. Fascinating...basically it was about how her being homeless has taught her not to attach herself to material belongings as she now lives day, by day on the street..there was of course a lot more, but she was type of person that would of loved to tell her story...because she was such a blabber mouth.

She was basically changing outfits on the train , that she just purchased from the thrift store and getting her friend to rate them...the clothes she got look awesome.

Hmmm now re-reading some of your recent comments, I don't think you will do that well at documentary making. She/he is not bait for goodness sakes. You make them sound so desperate. Prostitutes are people and they will tell you their story if they think your honest and you taking the time to really understand them and care. A good documentary maker, cares about people and the story that's been told and builds a great rapore with their interviewee to obtain things that one does not normally tell. You wont get far chucking a tanty with a $20 note.

I know quite a few documentary makers and there demeanour is honest and kind...and really want to tell a story which needs to be told. It's not about making money or fame.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Algernon

This also means that rarely will we have to "pay the going rate" for her time. We'll just be "negotiating" and after waving a twenty in her face (or lower -- whatever she'll refuse) we walk away "angrily" when she won't accept that. At some point we "accidentally" drop a business card with an e-mail address and a website. Those who are ready will contact us.

Oh jeez. That doesn't seem smart at all. Why don't you go the direct route of calmly asking her?

Seems like you're just wanting to get good video for your documentary about what a sneaky james-bond-like guy you are. Probably exciting to think about doing something like that as it may create an adreline rush.

However, you're ignoring the advice from a professional journalist about how to do it.

That's my feedback since you asked for it.

Edit: I agree with Spirit, your proposed approach is an insult to the prostitute. Why a prostitute would want to even call you after you get mad at them like that and create a reaction from them is beyond me. They wisely would want to stay away from you.

[themaster]

How about you interview prostitutes where it's legal?

3 places it is.. Canada, New Hampshire (I believe check the prostitution wiki) and Nevada

Another thing you can do is to make your life easier (less stress) is find prostitute forums or websites and ask them there.. virtually then there is no physical meet..

Why do you think what prostitutes do is bad? You already have a judgment about it since you want to help them change.. anything there doing is not bad.. it is merely just a society judgment of bad.. I would suggest you stop adopting society labels and judgments..

Here is also another idea.. you could advertise on craigslist and pay them for their stories via the internet w/ PayPal.. see my imagination loves to help?

[aelle]

I'm uncomfortable with the approach you have on the topic. Sounds quite condescending to me. Start by educating yourself by talking with social workers, sex workers allies, etc. Here is an interesting article (and the conversation that follows) where you could find some ground for reflection and some links to get started.

Not even mentioning the part that seeker quoted, this was a bad start :

Originally Posted by Algernon

The ideal solution would be to get a pimp and his "stable" to leave "the life" together, but we haven't figured out how to swing that.

If they are sex workers by choice, who are you to judge this choice?
If they are sex workers not by choice, ie traficked, how will your conversation help getting out of whatever mafia network they are a victim of?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I've heard of some people trying this before and some prostitutes get pissed. They're like, "Look, are we gonna f*ck or what? Stop wasting my time!" It was surprising to hear because if I were in their position, I'd rather get paid for talking!

My guess is that they bank on the person not using the full amount of time. I mean, once the guy....finishes...he's probably not going to want her to stick around.

So odds are, if she can get him to finish in fifteen minutes and he's bought a half an hour, that's fifteen minutes more she has to go get someone else that night.

So, someone talking and banking on using their full time just to talk? Probably does annoy them because my guess is that an hour really isn't an hour.

Then again, I've never been to a prostitute before, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. But to me, this would make sense as to why they get frustrated.

[BitterFlower]

Originally Posted by Algernon

but there are always more of us with Flip Video and such working from the shadows, so if anyone is "forced" to turn off the camera, there are always other cameras recording any encounter, whether with rogue cops or angry pimps.

Make sure this is legal in your state.


Also, I do agree with the others that the way you are going about it is a little condescending. You can be upfront about it. In fact, there are documentaries out there already. Two I can think of off top is Pimps Up, H*'s Down, and American Pimp. People can be willing to talk, if you go about it in a professional manner.

[Michelle]

Everyone has a story to tell, and many people are happy, willing, and eager to share their story with those prepared to listen in an open and non-judgmental way.

[timothydrake]

Prostitutes like honesty. They deal with bullshit every single second and they have huge defenses from a general fear of living. If you aint ****ing them first then talking to them, your not at thier level so they won't trust you. If you show them your just as vulnerable as they are then I'm sure you'll get some answers. You might have to commit the sin to get to the sinner.

[Daffy Duck]

James, could be. It makes sense. I guess we'd have to ask the annoyed prostitutes to know for sure.

[Algernon]

All the comments about "abuse" and "dishonesty" I totally agree with.

Often when I get a clear vision of something all of a sudden, I don't always communicate enough to make things clear.

Case in point:

The thing about "waving a twenty" and acting "angry" is if we're having a friendly conversation and then the pimp emerges from the shadows, or she says she's being watched and can't talk, then with her full understanding, we act like it was a negotiation gone bad, for the benefit of the pimp. And, yes, we'd probably include a phone number as well.

Thanks for all the constructive criticism.