What defines a "Nice Guy" and how to avoid becomming one!

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Yeah I suppose when you say you're the nicest guy in the world, you're saying that everyone else is a jerk relative to what you are, which kind of makes you a jerk

EDIT: today a cop let me off for being 10km over the speed limit though, so I guess there's a time and place for being a nice guy

In my experience/observation, guys who say they are "nice guys" - that puppy-faced, "aw shucks" guy in the floppy sweater that my grandmother JUST ADORES - may do the following:

* Insist they want to be "just friends" but then get upset when the woman starts seeing someone else... or in some other way, they'll act like they're staking boyfriend territory while denying that they're doing any such thing

* Being sarcastic and critical - that's the shadow of this "niceness"

* you never quite know where you stand with them

* Be just as much of a control freak as the more overt kind of jerk... just his version will involve guilt trips

* everyone always talks about "what a nice guy" he is - usually grandmothers and various other people that the guy sucks up to. He's very good at sucking up and impressing people that he wants to impress, with some exceptions! And it leaves you feeling like you're quietly going crazy. The red flag, though: other, more male-identified men don't like him.

* Say they want to "just be friends" with a woman, but insist upon taking her out... then when the woman inevitably gets with another guy, they'll get pissy and ask her to pay them back for all the dinners

* Leave it up to the woman to initiate stuff or pick all of the date venues, then cry (usually in the whiniest way possible) that he didn't do what he wanted to do.

* Smile to the girl's face, then complain to other people. Relationship issues are never vented openly.

* Leave whoever they're with, feeling like they're always "the bad guy".

* Be loosy goosy about commitments... going wherever their impulses take them, from moment to moment

* Expect the woman to read his mind.

* Sometimes, expect the woman to make the moves, then get scared off when she does.

Society has sold us a bill of goods in the last thirty or so years, that these are wonderful, desirable men. Witness the puppy-eyed Ethan Hawke and Michael Cera types in the movies. There's a reason some women don't want these men: it's self-protection.

The same traits would not be desirable in a woman, either.

BTW, these guys are no more likely to be faithful than the more familiar "cad" type of jerk. One of these guys - a former just-friend of mine who never seemed to catch much female interest while single, women complained he was "too nice" - got married then when he started cheating, he whined, whined, whined about how his wife "didn't understand" him... all the while making the wife out to be some kind of battleaxe (and ANY woman he married would end up being "the bad guy")...

[Falco]

Thanks for the insights people, some very nice suggestions were made.

Nice guys are in a way manipulating but then again, aren't we all manipulating a little bit to get what we want?

[James81]

Originally Posted by Falco

Thanks for the insights people, some very nice suggestions were made.

Nice guys are in a way manipulating but then again, aren't we all manipulating a little bit to get what we want?

No. Manipulation imples that you are directly trying to control the outcome.

Not all of us are trying to do that. In fact, I've recognized manipulation as something rather useless in getting effective results in my life.

I would say that most people have needs and that we are trying to get our needs met in the best way we can.

[spacecadetglow]

Pyrogen, those are some seriously insightful observations. The last guy I was with fits that bill to a tee. I never realized how manipulative it all was; even if it's not *intentional* manipulation, it ain't right.

[Falco]

Originally Posted by James81

No. Manipulation imples that you are directly trying to control the outcome.

Not all of us are trying to do that. In fact, I've recognized manipulation as something rather useless in getting effective results in my life.

I would say that most people have needs and that we are trying to get our needs met in the best way we can.

But isn't that just saying the same thing with more socially accepted words? We are trying to get our needs met by trying to control an outcome.

Example: If I wear formal clothing to a job interview I'm trying to control the outcome, therefore I am manipulating the situation.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Falco

But isn't that just saying the same thing with more socially accepted words? We are trying to get our needs met by trying to control an outcome.

Not socially accepted words, no. It's not the same thing either, because "manipulation" has the negative connotations and associations with it that will guide your actions (unconsciously) in that direction. Viewing it in other ways is more effective because the way you consciously view something will dictate your unconscious reactions to those views.

Originally Posted by Falco

Example: If I wear formal clothing to a job interview I'm trying to control the outcome, therefore I am manipulating the situation.

It sounds to me like you wear formal clothing to an interview more because you recognize that that is the social construct for interviews. You recognize that by NOT wearing formal clothing, you might possibly hurt your chances of getting the job, and getting the job is one way of meeting those needs you have.

So, to me, it sounds like by wearing formal clothing, you are just trying to meet your needs.

[Falco]

Originally Posted by James81

Not socially accepted words, no. It's not the same thing either, because "manipulation" has the negative connotations and associations with it that will guide your actions (unconsciously) in that direction. Viewing it in other ways is more effective because the way you consciously view something will dictate your unconscious reactions to those views.
.

I get your point about the unconscious reaction, thanks for sharing.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Falco

I get your point about the unconscious reaction, thanks for sharing.

No problem.

Is your username a nod to Shane Falco from the movie The Replacements?

I loved that movie.

[Falco]

Originally Posted by James81

No problem.

Is your username a nod to Shane Falco from the movie The Replacements?

I loved that movie.

It's actually a reference to a childhood videogame

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Falco

It's actually a reference to a childhood videogame

Do a barrel roll!

[theuprising]

Originally Posted by brendannz

People like niceness from other people,

it's just that if somebody is always trying to please you, you think that they have no life of their own...

I remember back in high school there was this really unpopular "nice guy" who wanted to be friends with everyone in the school. Then one day in class he was sitting next to me, and he had an itchy thigh, so undid his belt to scratch it, so I started a rumour that went around the whole school that he was masturbating in class.

He was quite stressed about it, but I told him "just don't worry about it, the more you react the more they'll hassle you" but he didn't pick up on it, and later on he told me "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!"

Now his facebook status's say "I am working overtime again, because it is fun and there are always ways you can add value to your company!"

I feel a bit sorry for him

Other than that, I can't think of any annoying doormat nice guys, all my friends are nice guys, but none are "nice guys"

But if I was a girl, I'd probably have some annoying nice guys hitting on me...

Its coming from the wrong wrong place, yes you gave him advie everyone gives nice guys, which just doesn't work... dummies >

Its not the reaction, its the buying into it. And for guys its not just NOT buying into it (you can just ignore people if they are being jerks and its the first offence or you aren't forced to talk to them, as it shows that you have higher value. To do this you need to be giving high value thogh.) but against repeat offenders you have to not get sucked into it AND say something back. It doesn't need to be genius but it needs to be SOMETHING that REFLECTS you didn't get sucked into it which is the basis of it all. If the other person was mean about it, be mean about it back, if they weren't, its just playful guy teasing (which can get out of hand), so say something playful back.

Self esteem is the solution so you don't buy into random ♥♥♥♥ random people tell you about you, and don't let it affect you.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by Johnny Soporno

The "Nice Guy" mistakenly believes that if he says "No", or fails immediately to insist that he assist at every opportunity, he will not be "liked".

A "Nice Guy" is UTTERLY concerned that women "like" him, perhaps even that EVERYONE likes him... so much so, that he abandons his own needs and wants.

It's not just lack of backbone that makes a nice guy unappealing, it's also that they tend to be boring and too clingy. So I would say to the guy who doesn't want to fall into the Mr. Nice Guy trap:

1. Get a life. Many nice guys don't seem to have much going on in their lives. To be interesting, you have to do interesting things. Don't try to center your whole world around your girlfriend.

2. Get a sense of humor. This doesn't mean laughing at every else's jokes. Remember all the funny or strange things you've observed and use them to create entertaining anecdotes of your own. Make an effort.

3. Get a personality. If you're shy, be willing to break out, even risk being a little weird. That's more appealing than a guy who sits there like a lump.

4. On the other hand, some nice guys are TOO weird. Like having really offbeat hobbies, talking obssessively, strange mannerisms, etc. Develop some awareness of how you come across to others.