Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

MidasGirl · 10-31-2009, 06:29 PM

Who wouldn't be attracted to the feminine form and energy? Obviously 3 billion men can't be wrong

James81 · 10-31-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Who wouldn't be attracted to the feminine form and energy? Obviously 3 billion men can't be wrong

True, but it's mostly just the feminine form tho.

MidasGirl · 10-31-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James81

True, but it's mostly just the feminine form tho.

James.........you're not attracted to feminine energy? Not judging, just clarifying.

spirit4711 · 11-01-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suddentwist

...
Personally, I don't label myself as anything anymore. I just am with who I am at the moment and that's all that matters to me. I wish that's all that mattered to everyone, but unfortunately in our world everything has to be labeled. Labels however cause confusion, fear and depression - exactly the reason why I decided to take labels out of my life.

Thanks! We indeed put way too much energy in keeping up with labels. Who cares if we don't?

Great story BTW!

spirit4711 · 11-01-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Who wouldn't be attracted to the feminine form and energy? Obviously 3 billion men can't be wrong

Oh yes we can, but you're irresistible

Chris_1977 · 11-01-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonrambler

I've wondered for a long time how a gay man manages to pretend to be hetero enough to have sexual relationships with girlfriends and get married and so on, y'know, trying hard to overcome the attraction to men. I've wondered if even if he's gay, he's just bi enough to pull it off somehow. I know two guys personally who went this route but once they came out, they never looked back. It's hard for me to imagine being that good of an actor.

I do not really know as I never was in that situation, so if you want to know you really should ask those two. What I can imagine is that it is a form of misplaced heroism. The idea of accomplishing something through great toil pleases the soul of men but at the same time many men are not really in touch with what their true desires are. Hence, one finds so many men off on quests that are not worth it and not going anywhere. The details of it sure aren't pretty. Maybe he imagines that he is actually f*cking something else, maybe he is just stomaching having sex once every few weeks and not enjoying it but the physical stimulation is enough to get him of. Maybe he is watching gay porn on the side... who knows... all the while telling himself that it is all part of his learning process to be a real man.

James81 · 11-02-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

James.........you're not attracted to feminine energy? Not judging, just clarifying.

Depends on what that even means.

rei · 11-02-2009, 05:33 PM

i think you two have your wires crossed... i think James was saying he really likes the female body in a clever way, not that he is interested in men.

right James, or am i putting words in your mouth?!

thanks to everyone who has commented on the OP. i have set aside the need for a label and will allow the attractions and magnetism to direct me independent of gender.

James81 · 11-02-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rei

i think you two have your wires crossed... i think James was saying he really likes the female body in a clever way, not that he is interested in men.

right James, or am i putting words in your mouth?!

Oops, lol. Didn't even think it could be taken in that way. But you are correct.

And I'm attracted to the back of the feminine form moreso than the front. (read: clever way to say I'm an ass man

)

rei · 11-02-2009, 05:50 PM

lol
no witty retorts at the moment... i'll get back to ya. or i've got back for ya.

James81 · 11-02-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rei

lol
or i've got back for ya.

I, of course, will await for the pics in my inbox with bated breath.

spirit4711 · 11-02-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James81

And I'm attracted to the back of the feminine form moreso than the front. (read: clever way to say I'm an ass man

)

We can admire the same women simultaneously then James, I'm more attracted to the front (and no, not one area in particular - pars pro toto AND totum pro parte I say

).

Any side guys here?

songindarkness · 11-04-2009, 07:41 PM

Hi Rei,

It's easy to be confused about sexuality and gender. I still am! I have many friends who are gay and bi, and I am attracted to both genders but I've only been with men, so I generally say I'm straight because I've not had much desire to explore being with a woman. I find that a lot of people see gender and sexuality as the same thing but they are not. Being androgynous or a masculine woman, feeling more butch or femme on one day than another... I think it's ok that your gender feels fluid. I don't think you should worry that you are misreprenting yourself. Having long hair or wearing skirts and being attracted to women isn't really contradictory! Sexuality is something that I think is related to gender but being confused about sexuality and confused about gender are two different things. I think that what Michelle said about "joyful exploration" is the best bet too. Imagining what you would like to have out of a sexual experience is important. I think that it's easy to get hung up on sex whereas really, what is most important, is finding the connection with someone that is especially good, and then the sex will follow. Hope I made a little sense. Good luck!

rei · 11-04-2009, 07:47 PM

thank you songindarkness. yes your post made sense.
ironically in one of my classes yesterday the topic was gender and sexuality. people tend to be both fascinated and uncomfortable with the idea that gender is fluid.

of course the discussion still involved people saying they don't think bisexuality is legitimate (not picking a side or a detour on the way from straight to gay), and that was annoying.

yes there are some people who decide they are bi because it's fashionable, but just like medical malpractice, this can create unneeded discomfort for someone who has a more genuine reason for acting on that choice.

ohTen · 11-09-2009, 02:01 AM

wow. i am in the exact same place right now. It recently became embarrassingly obvious to me that I am very, very attracted to women. When I think about my childhood and everything, it makes perfect sense. But like you, I do not enjoy the actual consummation of this proclivity (for the exact same reason!). I much prefer sex with men, even though I am not as physically attracted to them.

I recently decided that I wanted to give being with a female partner another go. I don't think that all men enjoy...you know...the first time they try it, so why should I expect that I would? I couldn't date a man right now if I wanted to. I need to have this experience first. I just see too much potential for growth, happiness, and unbelievable pleasure. That's not to say that I don't like men. I do, just not as much as I like women. This is hard because it's much easier to find men to date.

I don't feel any need to consciously express my preferences outwardly (i.e. no gay pride, no dramatic "coming out", no buzzcut). Even though I've had this realization, the outer part of me does not really need to change in any calculated way. The rest of my life - my work, school, style, choice of friends - doesn't need to be affected by this. Whose business is it who I date other than my own? Most people I meet will probably never, ever find out. I like it that way, as I'm generally very private about my personal life anyway. To whom do I owe an explanation for my choices? Nobody - social norms are just a construction, after all. The main benefit that accepting and acknowledging this part of me has is that it's enabling me to be more comfortable with my whole self.

So what? I'm gay...ish. I can't really label myself, nor do I have a desire to. I like women and I like men. But I don't tell the world I'm a "gay-leaning bisexual". Labels are just a way for people to try and comprehend something that they can't understand. But ultimately, calling myself this would be false. When it comes to love, someone's gender doesn't matter to me. When it comes to sex, there's so much more than physical makeup that goes into attraction. The truth is that I'm just myself, plain and simple.

I hope you come out of your confusion soon. I know how it feels and don't wish that inner strife on anybody.

rei · 11-09-2009, 02:33 AM

thanks ohTen. very thoughtful response.
i find the acceptance comes in waves, i accept it, and then i allow other things to cover over that (including tasks i need to complete in my life), and then there is another wave of mindful acceptance.

which i say is much preferable to the massive confusion i felt before. so there is definite progress. i have heard the inner voice, the voice i find myself fighting with at times, is quite persistent.

as you said, who i choose to date is my business. i will probably date a woman next to see what that is all about - unless i feel myself drawn to a man but right now i don't think that is likely - i think synchronicity will see to it.

and at least i'm now aware of those specific layers of social expectation that influenced me before... also a part of my dating history was a way for me to work through some grief over losing my father, and it has served its purpose.

thanks again to you and all the previous posters.

Cochonette · 05-06-2010, 05:51 AM

I happened upon this old thread while looking up the unrelated topic of "law of attraction." Sorry to resurrect a somewhat resolved thread, rei, but I must say I find this topic much more interesting than the overwhelmingly popular hetersexual/heteronormative threads.

It sounds like you've more or less figured this out, and I know you have been dating a man since then.

I also don't get this focus on "feminine energy" and "masculine energy." I don't understand why almost everyone here is so ready to do away with the idea that we are strictly masculine or strictly feminine, but not with the ideas of masculinity and femininity themselves, which are entirely socially constructed. The very concepts are heteronormative in my view. For why would we need to have to binary/opposite/complementary genders without heterosexuality? We wouldn't. Heterosexuality wasn't even a concept until the concept of homosexuality came about, but what we now call heterosexuality was a worldview that wanted to replicate this dualistic process by imagining itself as binary/opposite to the homosexual Other.

Heterosexuality is a social construct. Homosexuality is a social construct.

That is why I do not identify with gender, BUT sometimes out of convenience I will put myself in a category where I must. The word I like is queer. "Queer" is a term that has been reclaimed by academia and increasingly used with queer communities. "Queer theory" is an academic term referring to critical theory as relates to queer struggles. I rarely say "LGBTQ" anymore as I prefer "queer." LGBTQ is assimilationist, in my opinion, since it continues to divide people up into dualisms. "Queer" is a very general term that ultimately can refer to whatever is non-normative. Normativity is a societal force which tries to herd everyone in a particular direction just for the sake of maintaining itself. So we can think of "queer" as anarchic and democratic rather than dualistic and hierarchical.

Does that make sense? I know I tend to speak with academic vocabulary.

When I first got to college and people told me they identified as queer or genderqueer, I didn't get it. The word bothered me slightly. So I understand if people don't get it at first. It has been reclaimed and isn't going anywhere, trust me. But outside of academic and the truly queer communities, it is not so popular. I read this word all the time in my Women's & Gender Studies classes.

I also wanted to say something about the "questioning" aspect. For a lot of people, realizing they fit a label is epiphanic. For me, it was. I know I've been attracted to girls/women since I was 4 years old, but I didn't come to terms with it and take on a label until I was 17. Until then, all I knew was that I noticed attractive women more than attractive men, that I felt different, that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with a female friend regardless of my sexual orientation. So it was quite liberating at the time.

I can't see you as being bisexual in the most widely accepted sense of the term on the basis of sex alone. I fall in love with "women." Sex has nothing to do with it. I've never had sex. I don't even care for the notion. Physically, I like the idea of male-female sex better than female-female. I don't like the idea much to begin with. Who came up with the idea that two females need to have "sex" to be in love? Did someone sell that in a commercial?

For some people, sexual attraction amounts to mostly physical. Fair enough, but I find that boring myself. A friend called me homoromantic. Whatever. I'll stick with queer. I'm also attracted to some men, but it's never the same as with women. The intensity isn't quite the same. It might feel similar - love is based on hormones just like sexual attraction is - but it's never quite the same. I could imagine falling in love with a queer male, but it would have to be really a perfect match... but then again, I've only fallen in love three times with a female, so those were really perfect matches anyway. I'm definitely more attracted to queer people than normative ones - male, female, or otherwise. I just don't see myself ending up with a male because I tend to be attracted to gay-identified men superficially since the rest of men are so normative.

I tell ya, though... I find Adam Lambert attractive. He seems like exactly the kind of female I would be attracted to - I mean, the kind of person. Very sensitive, mature, creative.

I like to think that if a person matches well enough, sex/gender will become irrelevant.

rei · 05-06-2010, 06:15 AM

You know your stuff, Cochonette!

I actually think there is something to "masculinity" and "femininity" beyond social constructs. I think what I experienced to inspire this post was the beginning of understanding myself in terms of shamanic androgyny. (Not the same as being transgendered, more like the original - indigenous - meaning of "two spirit person.")

It's a spiritual blending of gender energies, sometimes expressed in orientation but not always. Gender is basically social but then it is also a distortion of a genuine balance of dualities (think the yin yang symbol). From my understanding and experience anyway.

So the stuff that inspired this thread happened, I looked into it, and then later I had a sudden emotional experience which was actually my androgynous expression swapping - so my feminine side came to the surface and my masculine side is doing its action-oriented thing on the etheric level. My gender energies could still switch at various points throughout my life.

So I thought this was an issue of sexuality when it was really the prelude to being conscious of the spiritual component to these things. And I do still admire the physique of both biological makeups, but you're right I've never been "in love with" a female. Not in a romantic sense.

But in terms of the debate that goes on about preference, labels, etc., I think you just shared some valuable information

KaleidoskopicVision · 05-06-2010, 06:35 AM

Excellent, Cochonette. I especially like how you described being 'queer' as an antithesis to the normative element that is integral to the continuance of society. An anarchistic, chaotic force. I like that.

Cochonette · 05-06-2010, 06:37 AM

rei - I see. I would prefer to call them yin and yang than female and male, if I understand exactly what you're getting at. There are certain qualities that gender have come to represent, but that's all gender means to me... representations. But I respect your way of looking at things.

Quote:

in terms of the debate that goes on about preference, labels, etc., I think you just shared some valuable information

I hope so.

KaleidoskopicVision -

rei · 05-06-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochonette

rei - I see. I would prefer to call them yin and yang than female and male, if I understand exactly what you're getting at. There are certain qualities that gender have come to represent, but that's all gender means to me... representations. But I respect your way of looking at things.

Yes I do understand, and I respect your perspective as well

I also understand the interest in setting aside the gender labels. I would not say I attach the same meaning to them as they have when they are used to further a heteronormative worldview, though

And I don't automatically think of an Eastern notion of a shaman, mine taps more into my own heritage as a Cherokee, which means I'm less quick to use the labels that come from Eastern thought when I talk about shamanic androgyny, as it's indigenous American culture that first enters my mind (aside from all the cosmic stuff

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochonette

I hope so.

I'm sorry if my response to your post was unsatisfying - I wanted to acknowledge what you said, and I do think you offered some great food for thought. I just frankly do not feel like putting on an intellectual/sociological critique hat right now

I'm all for acceptance though, embracing diversity, mutual understanding and respect, as you can probably tell from my posts around here. But I did not mean to seem dismissive, I was just not feeling up to talking on this level right now, and that's all about me and not at all about you

Cochonette · 05-06-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

I would not say I attach the same meaning to them as they have when they are used to further a heteronormative worldview, though

I understand.

Quote:

I'm sorry if my response to your post was unsatisfying

No, it wasn't. You are reading way too much into those three words I posted.

I simply meant that I hope so. lol

rei · 05-06-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochonette

No, it wasn't. You are reading way too much into those three words I posted.

I simply meant that I hope so. lol

Well, I did say "if"

aelle · 05-06-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochonette

rei - I see. I would prefer to call them yin and yang than female and male, if I understand exactly what you're getting at. There are certain qualities that gender have come to represent, but that's all gender means to me... representations.

That's a very interesting way to put it. I'm also a little bothered by the use of gendered words to refer to these concepts - I guess because it sort of implies that someone of a given gender should fit the 'energy' of their gender? I don't know much about yin/yang, but other dichotomies would work fine for me... femme/butch, for example. Or red/blue, while we're at it

Cochonette · 05-06-2010, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rei

Well, I did say "if"

Quote:

Originally Posted by aelle

That's a very interesting way to put it. I'm also a little bothered by the use of gendered words to refer to these concepts - I guess because it sort of implies that someone of a given gender should fit the 'energy' of their gender? I don't know much about yin/yang, but other dichotomies would work fine for me... femme/butch, for example. Or red/blue, while we're at it

LOL, I like the red/blue.

FazK · 05-06-2010, 08:55 AM

Sexuality is fluid and depends on a lot of factors.

I think that labeling yourself as gay or straight is pretty limiting.

Just explore, enjoy yourself and do whatever feels good.

MidasGirl · 05-06-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochonette

I would prefer to call them yin and yang than female and male, if I understand exactly what you're getting at.

That's actually what is implied (actually meant) by masculine/feminine energies. It isn't about genders (male/female as in sex organs).

A man can have mostly feminine energy and a woman can have mostly masculine energy. There is nothing wrong with either energies, other than the fact that society wants to put people in a "box" for their own comfort.

That said, the obvious observation is that the majority of humans with male sex organs tend to exhibit more masculine energy, and vice versa. I don't necessarily know if that has to do with biology or social conditioning, or both.

I too don't care much for labels. For example, because (now that I have no shame about things) I can openly admit to finding a girl attractive, I'm pretty sure most people here have labeled me bi. That's their problem. I don't know what that means. I'm mostly attracted to masculine energy. I just know that I appreciate a good looking woman, and maybe the fact that I'd never considered falling in love with one might have more to do with social/cultural taboo than actual authenticity on my part.

That was something new I learned about the term "queer" by the way. I always viewed it negatively. These days I seem to be learning new things everyday, so fast my head is spinning.

Andrew Gubb · 05-06-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rei

any ideas for how i can sort this out? if there is anyone here who went through this stage of confusion i'd especially appreciate sharing how you came to greater clarity.

Wish I could help sis, I'm more confused than you

Andrew Gubb · 05-06-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelMaxwell

You ever read Jung? Anima and animus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh I remember when I came out to one my friends, a bit of a religious person, she told me about this as a way of suggesting that I wasn't really bi - or whatever I was.

NO, I WANNA BE ****ED IN THE ASS

Michael Chui · 05-07-2010, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aelle

That's a very interesting way to put it. I'm also a little bothered by the use of gendered words to refer to these concepts - I guess because it sort of implies that someone of a given gender should fit the 'energy' of their gender? I don't know much about yin/yang, but other dichotomies would work fine for me... femme/butch, for example. Or red/blue, while we're at it

geyser/cloud

05-06-2010, 05:51 AM	#47 (permalink)
Cochonette Family Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,216	I happened upon this old thread while looking up the unrelated topic of "law of attraction." Sorry to resurrect a somewhat resolved thread, rei, but I must say I find this topic much more interesting than the overwhelmingly popular hetersexual/heteronormative threads. It sounds like you've more or less figured this out, and I know you have been dating a man since then. I also don't get this focus on "feminine energy" and "masculine energy." I don't understand why almost everyone here is so ready to do away with the idea that we are strictly masculine or strictly feminine, but not with the ideas of masculinity and femininity themselves, which are entirely socially constructed. The very concepts are heteronormative in my view. For why would we need to have to binary/opposite/complementary genders without heterosexuality? We wouldn't. Heterosexuality wasn't even a concept until the concept of homosexuality came about, but what we now call heterosexuality was a worldview that wanted to replicate this dualistic process by imagining itself as binary/opposite to the homosexual Other. Heterosexuality is a social construct. Homosexuality is a social construct. That is why I do not identify with gender, BUT sometimes out of convenience I will put myself in a category where I must. The word I like is queer. "Queer" is a term that has been reclaimed by academia and increasingly used with queer communities. "Queer theory" is an academic term referring to critical theory as relates to queer struggles. I rarely say "LGBTQ" anymore as I prefer "queer." LGBTQ is assimilationist, in my opinion, since it continues to divide people up into dualisms. "Queer" is a very general term that ultimately can refer to whatever is non-normative. Normativity is a societal force which tries to herd everyone in a particular direction just for the sake of maintaining itself. So we can think of "queer" as anarchic and democratic rather than dualistic and hierarchical. Does that make sense? I know I tend to speak with academic vocabulary. When I first got to college and people told me they identified as queer or genderqueer, I didn't get it. The word bothered me slightly. So I understand if people don't get it at first. It has been reclaimed and isn't going anywhere, trust me. But outside of academic and the truly queer communities, it is not so popular. I read this word all the time in my Women's & Gender Studies classes. I also wanted to say something about the "questioning" aspect. For a lot of people, realizing they fit a label is epiphanic. For me, it was. I know I've been attracted to girls/women since I was 4 years old, but I didn't come to terms with it and take on a label until I was 17. Until then, all I knew was that I noticed attractive women more than attractive men, that I felt different, that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with a female friend regardless of my sexual orientation. So it was quite liberating at the time. I can't see you as being bisexual in the most widely accepted sense of the term on the basis of sex alone. I fall in love with "women." Sex has nothing to do with it. I've never had sex. I don't even care for the notion. Physically, I like the idea of male-female sex better than female-female. I don't like the idea much to begin with. Who came up with the idea that two females need to have "sex" to be in love? Did someone sell that in a commercial? For some people, sexual attraction amounts to mostly physical. Fair enough, but I find that boring myself. A friend called me homoromantic. Whatever. I'll stick with queer. I'm also attracted to some men, but it's never the same as with women. The intensity isn't quite the same. It might feel similar - love is based on hormones just like sexual attraction is - but it's never quite the same. I could imagine falling in love with a queer male, but it would have to be really a perfect match... but then again, I've only fallen in love three times with a female, so those were really perfect matches anyway. I'm definitely more attracted to queer people than normative ones - male, female, or otherwise. I just don't see myself ending up with a male because I tend to be attracted to gay-identified men superficially since the rest of men are so normative. I tell ya, though... I find Adam Lambert attractive. He seems like exactly the kind of female I would be attracted to - I mean, the kind of person. Very sensitive, mature, creative. I like to think that if a person matches well enough, sex/gender will become irrelevant. Last edited by Cochonette; 05-06-2010 at 05:54 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-31-2009, 06:29 PM	#31 (permalink)
MidasGirl Family Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Off this forum from 10/27/10 to 10/27/11. Yay me! Posts: 2,944	Who wouldn't be attracted to the feminine form and energy? Obviously 3 billion men can't be wrong

11-02-2009, 05:33 PM	#38 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	i think you two have your wires crossed... i think James was saying he really likes the female body in a clever way, not that he is interested in men. right James, or am i putting words in your mouth?! thanks to everyone who has commented on the OP. i have set aside the need for a label and will allow the attractions and magnetism to direct me independent of gender.

11-02-2009, 05:50 PM	#40 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	lol no witty retorts at the moment... i'll get back to ya. or i've got back for ya.

11-04-2009, 07:41 PM	#43 (permalink)
songindarkness Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 19	Hi Rei, It's easy to be confused about sexuality and gender. I still am! I have many friends who are gay and bi, and I am attracted to both genders but I've only been with men, so I generally say I'm straight because I've not had much desire to explore being with a woman. I find that a lot of people see gender and sexuality as the same thing but they are not. Being androgynous or a masculine woman, feeling more butch or femme on one day than another... I think it's ok that your gender feels fluid. I don't think you should worry that you are misreprenting yourself. Having long hair or wearing skirts and being attracted to women isn't really contradictory! Sexuality is something that I think is related to gender but being confused about sexuality and confused about gender are two different things. I think that what Michelle said about "joyful exploration" is the best bet too. Imagining what you would like to have out of a sexual experience is important. I think that it's easy to get hung up on sex whereas really, what is most important, is finding the connection with someone that is especially good, and then the sex will follow. Hope I made a little sense. Good luck!

11-04-2009, 07:47 PM	#44 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	thank you songindarkness. yes your post made sense. ironically in one of my classes yesterday the topic was gender and sexuality. people tend to be both fascinated and uncomfortable with the idea that gender is fluid. of course the discussion still involved people saying they don't think bisexuality is legitimate (not picking a side or a detour on the way from straight to gay), and that was annoying. yes there are some people who decide they are bi because it's fashionable, but just like medical malpractice, this can create unneeded discomfort for someone who has a more genuine reason for acting on that choice.

11-09-2009, 02:01 AM	#45 (permalink)
ohTen Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 164	wow. i am in the exact same place right now. It recently became embarrassingly obvious to me that I am very, very attracted to women. When I think about my childhood and everything, it makes perfect sense. But like you, I do not enjoy the actual consummation of this proclivity (for the exact same reason!). I much prefer sex with men, even though I am not as physically attracted to them. I recently decided that I wanted to give being with a female partner another go. I don't think that all men enjoy...you know...the first time they try it, so why should I expect that I would? I couldn't date a man right now if I wanted to. I need to have this experience first. I just see too much potential for growth, happiness, and unbelievable pleasure. That's not to say that I don't like men. I do, just not as much as I like women. This is hard because it's much easier to find men to date. I don't feel any need to consciously express my preferences outwardly (i.e. no gay pride, no dramatic "coming out", no buzzcut). Even though I've had this realization, the outer part of me does not really need to change in any calculated way. The rest of my life - my work, school, style, choice of friends - doesn't need to be affected by this. Whose business is it who I date other than my own? Most people I meet will probably never, ever find out. I like it that way, as I'm generally very private about my personal life anyway. To whom do I owe an explanation for my choices? Nobody - social norms are just a construction, after all. The main benefit that accepting and acknowledging this part of me has is that it's enabling me to be more comfortable with my whole self. So what? I'm gay...ish. I can't really label myself, nor do I have a desire to. I like women and I like men. But I don't tell the world I'm a "gay-leaning bisexual". Labels are just a way for people to try and comprehend something that they can't understand. But ultimately, calling myself this would be false. When it comes to love, someone's gender doesn't matter to me. When it comes to sex, there's so much more than physical makeup that goes into attraction. The truth is that I'm just myself, plain and simple. I hope you come out of your confusion soon. I know how it feels and don't wish that inner strife on anybody.

11-09-2009, 02:33 AM	#46 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	thanks ohTen. very thoughtful response. i find the acceptance comes in waves, i accept it, and then i allow other things to cover over that (including tasks i need to complete in my life), and then there is another wave of mindful acceptance. which i say is much preferable to the massive confusion i felt before. so there is definite progress. i have heard the inner voice, the voice i find myself fighting with at times, is quite persistent. as you said, who i choose to date is my business. i will probably date a woman next to see what that is all about - unless i feel myself drawn to a man but right now i don't think that is likely - i think synchronicity will see to it. and at least i'm now aware of those specific layers of social expectation that influenced me before... also a part of my dating history was a way for me to work through some grief over losing my father, and it has served its purpose. thanks again to you and all the previous posters.

05-06-2010, 06:15 AM	#48 (permalink)
rei Family Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: earth, everywhere and nowhere Posts: 9,713	You know your stuff, Cochonette! I actually think there is something to "masculinity" and "femininity" beyond social constructs. I think what I experienced to inspire this post was the beginning of understanding myself in terms of shamanic androgyny. (Not the same as being transgendered, more like the original - indigenous - meaning of "two spirit person.") It's a spiritual blending of gender energies, sometimes expressed in orientation but not always. Gender is basically social but then it is also a distortion of a genuine balance of dualities (think the yin yang symbol). From my understanding and experience anyway. So the stuff that inspired this thread happened, I looked into it, and then later I had a sudden emotional experience which was actually my androgynous expression swapping - so my feminine side came to the surface and my masculine side is doing its action-oriented thing on the etheric level. My gender energies could still switch at various points throughout my life. So I thought this was an issue of sexuality when it was really the prelude to being conscious of the spiritual component to these things. And I do still admire the physique of both biological makeups, but you're right I've never been "in love with" a female. Not in a romantic sense. But in terms of the debate that goes on about preference, labels, etc., I think you just shared some valuable information

05-06-2010, 06:35 AM	#49 (permalink)
KaleidoskopicVision Family Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 2,296	Excellent, Cochonette. I especially like how you described being 'queer' as an antithesis to the normative element that is integral to the continuance of society. An anarchistic, chaotic force. I like that.

05-06-2010, 08:55 AM	#56 (permalink)
FazK Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 242	Sexuality is fluid and depends on a lot of factors. I think that labeling yourself as gay or straight is pretty limiting. Just explore, enjoy yourself and do whatever feels good.

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums