Attractive Girl with Annoying Unattractive Friend in a Nightclub (Male Posting!)

[PhoenixFlames]

Hi there

Well I went clubbing the other night by myself (trust me I meet and get aquainted to more more people and interactions this way) and I had a really awesome night.

I spoke to 4 different groups of females (group sizes of 3/5) in 4 different clubs.

Now I am under no illusion that women (whether they admit it or not) go to clubs for "that reason" as well. In fact; the fact that I am NOT hung up about women's feminine sexuality, dressing nice and looking good means that many interactions go extremely well and I get women feeling my arms, placing their hands around my waist and basically engaging in behaviour that makes guys wonder how I do it.

However my biggest obstacle is always the same and here is my question.
"Why is it that a less Attractive/Ugly friend always has to spoil things by draggin my target away- when the good looking girl is comfortable and is into me?"

I'm curious to find out why this is. Some Pick Up Artist literature has various theories as to why this is but I want to hear both Male and female opinions on this.

More to the point as I roll solo. Whats the best way of getting the good looking girl without having to fake an interst in the Ugly Chick?

[aggie]

over the years i found women travel in packs, they are out for a good time, not necessarily interested in hooking up with just the average joe....just like a lot of guys...that is the society is now, imo.

trust me, the attractive girl would not be "dragged off" but the annoying unattractive friend if she was really didn't want to go. i think they have some understanding like men do, that if one wants to hook up the other will back down. they probably also have some kind loyalty code...who knows? sorry, but if i think if a woman is really into a guy, she will find a way to stick around.

[JSB]

If they are going to a club to hang out together, rather than hook up with guys, can you see how one girl would be annoyed if her friend is ignoring her to hang out with some guy?

Now imagine that every time they go out, one girl (the "hot one") gets hit on by multiple guys and stops to talk and flirt with them. At the same time, the friend is not getting the same attention from men. Can you see why the friend would get fed up with this and try to drag her away?

I'm not saying it's polite or justified, but it is understandable.

Bring some friends to talk to her friends, or pay her friends attention as well, so they don't feel like you are intruding and pulling her away from them.

[rei]

as aggie said, a woman will not be dragged away by her friend if she really wants to hook up. women often do travel in packs and they often set their intentions before they go out, it could be the goal is for each to find a hookup or just have fun together and leave together.

rather than having a goal of leaving with the attractive girl, you could try to get her number or give yours to her and set up a time to hang out when the friend won't potentially interfere.

[Holistic Star]

because she's the one that has to pick up the pieces yet again when he doesn't call afterwards. It's a pre-emptive strike!

[ssandra]

Way back when I still went clubbing... (I sound old...) anyway, 6 or 7 years ago if I went out with a few friends we usually had told each other in advance to not let the other fall for any slimebag that comes along.

It happened that I was in the moment, enjoying my time with such slimebag, but my friend, not temporaly insane would drag me away.

If I really really really like the guy I would go with her, we would discuss him and the pros and cons and (IF HE WAS STILL AROUND AND INTERESTED) would go back to him (or even back with him).

So... maybe you should not give up so fast?

[aelle]

Originally Posted by JSB

Bring some friends to talk to her friends, or pay her friends attention as well, so they don't feel like you are intruding and pulling her away from them.

Right on.

The other thing I wonder is how you treat your target's friend? If you make her feel that you think she's ugly, frustrated and spoiling your night, I understand why she'd make no effort in making things easier for you. If you can't deal with her in a way that flatters her, bring friends along for that purpose.

[cylon]

When there is an attractive girl, you can be positive there is an unattractive best friend nearby. They tend to go in pairs.

This happened to me a fairly recently, I was talking to a cute girl, and trying to include her un-cute best friend in the conversation so no one would feel excluded. The unattractive girl was just totally rude and abrasive to me. Probably just jealous that yet again her pretty friend is getting more attention than her. While I was trying to have a civil conversation with the cute girl, her "friend" kept giving her dirty looks like "oh my gawd, this is so stupid". Pretty common c-block.

I also think some girls like having a more unattractive friend, it makes them look even prettier by comparison, (they don't want to have to compete with their friends) and they can sort of be used as body-guards and c-blockers in the way a male friend would. It's all about security. Think about if you have any guy friends who have (or hopefully, used to have--cut these guys out of your life) low-self esteem. Are they more likely to encourage you to talk to a cute girl, or are they more likely to point out all the things that could go wrong?

Just have to get used to it, whether a girl is out just to have girl-talk or she's open to meeting a man, as a man you just assume the latter and be the assertive one if you are interested in someone. I don't care what their original motivation is, if a girl is out in public and is in a social setting, she is not going to be against the idea of some good looking guy checking her out. The only exception would be if she were in sweatpants, a baggy t-shirt, no makeup, and wearing a baseball cap. If she's not dressed that way, she wants to look good.

But bottom line, if a girl really is interested, she'll let you isolate her from her grumpy, "I hate my life" friends.

[PhoenixFlames]

Originally Posted by cylon

I also think some girls like having a more unattractive friend, it makes them look even prettier by comparison, (they don't want to have to compete with their friends) and they can sort of be used as body-guards and c-blockers in the way a male friend would. It's all about security. Think about if you have any guy friends who have (or hopefully, used to have--cut these guys out of your life) low-self esteem. Are they more likely to encourage you to talk to a cute girl, or are they more likely to point out all the things that could go wrong?

Yep I've had some mediocre "friends" with low self esteem in the past of whom I'd hang around to make me feel better about myself. In truth all they did was hold me back so I phased them out of my life years ago.
So called friends who would find "faults" with even my most pro active plans and dismiss any progress I was making with women as they didn't have the capacity to understand the complexity or Emotional Intelligence behind dating.

I think you have a valid point that this principle is the same for females who have similiar friends who take a lot of value from them.

As a general rule of thumb Good Looking Girls should hang around other good looking girls in Nightclubs.
A lot of pretty popular girls I've known, do have a wide network of plain janes, old/er female friends especially with Facebook
However come Saturday Night they tend to limit this down to their 6 hottest friends. As they get an equal share of Male Attention, no-one misses out.

[cylon]

Glad to hear you cut those friends out. Took me quite a while to do it myself, as I figured "we've been friends for years, I can't just end the friendship" but all I really lost was always hearing about how things won't work out, or that I should forget my dreams. I think friendship is actually something different than that.

When it comes to the attractive women, they are always at the advantage when they have an unattractive friend. If they want someone to scare off potential suitors, they are there. And they also know, that if they see a guy they are attracted to, there's no competition. Cute girl always comes out on top with an unattractive friend.

And then they use the other method, go out with all their cute friends to get the biggest group of guys interested, like you said. That's usually in a club/party bar setting.

Basically, women and men do not look at their friendships in the same way. I think with women it's much more competitive. Women don't tend to get along with each other very well, especially when men are involved.

[AthenaMarina]

I'm not ugly & I went on to have a great love life but I have BEEN in the "unattractive" girls' shoes - with the Barbie doll friends - & it is NOT FUN.
I had three guys compliment my friend then compliment my other friend & just ignore me. Tell me would YOU feel good if it happened to YOU?
If you were with a friend & beautiful women hit on him & just ignored you would it not bother you at all?
It hurts like HELL my friend.
In fact even though I have had a great love life SINCE going through that experience, your post has brought me back to that feeling even though I since dated a male model, two strippers other gorgeous guys that made womens' heads turn & women flirted with & am happily married to a gorgeous guy I feel like I'm back there - no it's not you guess I just have more work to do on myself. On the INSIDE. Cos when people chat up your friend & ignore you, you start to feel that you are ****. And you start to believe that you must be REALLY ugly so much so that NOONE will EVER like you.
So long story short I know how the friends feel.
That is still no reason for her to drag the friend away though but maybe as some people said the two girls had an agreement beforehand? I never tried to drag MY friends away.
Are there no gorgeous girls on their own in clubs that you could approach?
And does it have to be in a club - sometimes girls probably go there in packs for extra safety.
Guys usually - not always - were more likely to approach me when I was on my own. Sometimes when I was with friends.
Could you not bring some friends along with you? I guess what I'm trying to say is the "unattractive annoying friend" - she's a person to. With real feelings. Sure you don't want her to think you fancy HER when you don't but maybe you could include her a TINY bit more in the conversation but not as much as the one you like. All the best!

[cylon]

Where does the OP say that he "ignored" the ugly girl? Like in my example, I did not ignore the ugly girl. But she was ugly on the inside too and wanted nothing to do with me trying to have a conversation with everyone.

Basically, deal with it. Be happy for your friends. Life isn't fair. Just because you are insecure doesn't give you the right to interfere with your friends and sabotage their happiness and try to ruin their fun.

But, people with low self-esteem can't see the world in that way... they are just so focused on themselves and their own misery that other people's concerns aren't really a factor. You have to care about yourself first before you can care for someone else.

[aggie]

c'mon take it easy...i am by no means ugly either, but i have been " the sidekick" to the barbie friends....and they were good friends...i guess i was kinda like their wing-woman...and i NEVER, ever interferred with them when they hit it off with a guy.

stop making so many judgements....number one, the way you use the word ugly is ugly.

maybe you are a great looking guy...but there is someone for almost everyone given the chance...besides i have found a lot of guys who go griping about the hotties they can't pick up maybe incorrectly think they have more to offer all the time than they really do. and i am not talking about phyisical appearance....attitude good or bad speaks volumes.

but i do agree, that you are better off seeking out women who are on their own...they are more likely looking seriously for someone than the girls that are hanging out in crowds.

good luck.

[joelr]

I don't know where you live but in Boston women do NOT, EVER go out alone.
Randomly talking to women (with the exception of bars/clubs) is also frowned upon.
Music is usually played so loud that it's near impossible to have a conversation with 2 people at the same time.



I find women who get dragged away by friends - especially male friends - often discreetly have asked the friend to drag her away. I've been out at times with woman friends who will whisper "pull me away from this guy" when they get hit on. I'm sure it's been done to me too.

One of my recent "special friends" I met at a bar, when her friends pulled her away she took the time to tell me what was goin on and lingered a bit so I knew to get her number.

[IFeelGood]

"I find women who get dragged away by friends - especially male friends - often discreetly have asked the friend to drag her away. I've been out at times with woman friends who will whisper "pull me away from this guy" when they get hit on. I'm sure it's been done to me too."


Yes, joelr, you are right about that... and often women will come up with code language to hint to the friend (wink, wink, cough cough, etc...) to drag her away. This is to avoid fully rejecting the guy. When a women IS INTERESTED, no one can drag her away. She will, at the very least, give you a phone number or email address before being dragged off... sorry guys but don't blame the so called, "ugly" chicks. The more likely culprit is that she's just not really into you... She may think you are a nice guy and nice to talk to briefly but that's as far as it goes.

Don't fret, there is someone for everyone!

[Tanja]

As others have already said, women go out in groups. If they are out just to have fun and not hook up, they usually agree on how to act if they get hit on but are not interested in that.
However, if you really really like someone you'll not be ''dragged'' away, or at least you'll let him know you'd be interested in seeing him again so he'll ask for your number.

If a woman goes out with only one other friend, I can see why she would be reluctant to leave her friend alone or spend too much time talking to you when it's obvious you'd rather talk to her alone.
Again get her number or bring some friends with you.

Or maybe she's just not interested.

[blossom]

I think JSB summed it up perfectly.
I could never work out when I went out with a girlfriend of mine, why the guys would gravitate to her and pay her all the attention...but now I'm starting to think that it was for the very reason the JSB mentioned.

It's going to sound like I'm really up myself here...but I am pretty beautiful looking...pretty face, naturally skinny, natural look yadda yadda...so it would befuddle me when guys would come up and start talking to her, and glancing at me every now and then, but mainly interacting with her, and I thought they must like her more...but then that messed with me, because she is kinda ' butch' looking(and no, I don't think I was just using her to look better, though I think that does happen...we were both new in town and from the same town, so we hung out)...and I know that different people like different types, not everyone likes skinny women with pretty faces...some like really immense women.
But I think in this case, it was so the guy was paying attention to her mainly so as to be impressive to me...and I was impressed. He was really nice to her, and it made him look good, and also kinda made me wonder why he wasn't talking to me...not sure if that makes me conceited or insecure?

It is also totally possible that what Ifeelgood stated is the case here as well.
I can say for a fact that it's true that us girls have a code, and if we don't want the attention of someone we percieve to be a sleaze or a dickhead then we will get our friend to drag us away making it look like we had no choice in the matter and thus avoiding any hurt feelings. I'm not saying that you are either of these things, or that it definately is what happened, just that it's very possible!

In conclusion, I would agree that if you pay equal amount of attention to the ugly girl, then you have more than a good chance of her wanting to stay and letting her friend stay near you too...as long as the friend doesn't feel like she is going to be abandoned and left on her own to stew in her insecurities, while her pretty friend gets lucky, then she won't cause a problem. It's these sort of strategies that can navigate you safely in the world of women. Good luck!

[Indiana]

Based on my experiences of being hit on by men in nightclubs, this may be why I would allow myself to be dragged away (as other people have noted, if I was really keen, I would have managed the situation differently).

1) You were not important to me. I was using you for validation, or maybe a free drink, just as much as you were using me as a potential sex partner, but I got bored faster than you did.
2) The way you treated my friend annoyed me. The way you treat people you are *not* trying to get into bed impresses me equally, but in a different way.
3) I was initially interested but lost interest for whatever reason and asked my friend to get me out of the situation.
4) My friend and I know I am 'classically good looking' and that men will throw themselves at me, and it amuses us to see what we can get out of it before we lose interest in toying with them.
5) My 'ugly' friend also gets a bunch of attention because not every guy has the same taste, and sometimes I play 'ugly chick' winggirl to her, and you're not in the bigger game plan.

[Indiana]

Ps. I really don't understand what is meant by an 'ugly' girl. I use that word only in response to the OP.

I think it's actually rubbish, Nobody is 'ugly'. There are people I'm not currently attracted to, but I would never write them off right away as 'ugly'. Anyone who would... well... I think that sort of superficiality is immediately and intuitively obvious, and instantly repellent.

[Beuford]

Why do some females need their friend to drag them away? Is this really the best way to reject someone?

[blossom]

It's non-confrontational and spares the other person feelings from being hurt by an upfront F*#@ off! Is that a bad thing?

[aelle]

It's also more effective. You wouldn't believe the number of guys who think "I'm not interested", "leave me alone", "**** off" are games girls play to tease them.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFlames

"Why is it that a less Attractive/Ugly friend always has to spoil things by draggin my target away- when the good looking girl is comfortable and is into me?"

Maybe the "ugly" friend is picking up on the fact that you are viewing her friend as a "target" and, as a good friend, is simply getting her out of the situation before she falls for your game.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Beuford

Why do some females need their friend to drag them away? Is this really the best way to reject someone?

Especially when you are young (for me when I was 18 - 22) it is needed because of insecurity you are more likely to go with someone you would regret the day after. That is where the best friend comes in to help you... to talk to you and see if this is really what you want or if you are "high" on the attention.

[blossom]

That's true aelle. There are loads of males who think it means the girl is playing hard to get. It's a warped misperception, and it's why there are so many girls getting raped these days, sadly.

I can see why they do get ' confused' though, when sometimes a girl WILL say no just to tease and play hard to get...and I risk getting jumped on by all the women here, but I think it's true...sometimes girls do give out the wrong signals without meaning to confuse and without recognizing the consequences and what those messages teach the guys.
It must be hard for some males to tell when it really means NO and when it means ' well, ok, but when I'm ready'! But in that case, they need to take the responsability to find out the girls motivations BEFORE they jump to conclusions and not just assume it means the girl is teasing.

I think it is all in body language and visual cues, and verbal tone...you can pretty much tell if a person is teasing and being flirty or if they really mean it...so the guys need to not just hear what they want to hear and really listen to the message being spoken!

[timothydrake]

this is why when you need to bring in a "wing man."

[aggie]

blossom, i am not offended because as a wing woman, i saw the teasing going on all the time.

girls are getting back at guys now for the love and leave attitude they have gotten in the past. men created the woman attitude as it exists now, imo.

and my husband has told me some of the horror stories of blunt rejections he and his friends got at times and the phoney telephone numbers or how many numbers a girl would collect for the evening and even "revenge sex!"

be grateful for the friend that drags a gal like that away from you. (of course, maybe some of you like revenge sex)

and if you really you are coming across as "God"s gift" or too sure of yourself or arrogant or whatever...then as i said...attitude, more than outward appearance at times speaks more loudly than if you are GQ gorgeous

[AthenaMarina]

I just want to add something here:

Sometimes women go out to nightclubs whether alone, in groups or pairs NOT to pick up or be picked up they actually go out there for OTHER reasons e.g. to dance or listen to the music or enjoy some cocktails or whatever.
I have had guys look SHOCKED that I did not want to be hit on - I was very nice about it - when the fact is I wanted to dance & enjoy the music and that was IT.
I was single but not looking. Just wanting to dance to songs I love at loud volume. Dancing home alone just is NOT the same!
Even though I'm now married I'd still like to go out and dance. I was going to meet some (mixed) friends for dinner & dancing this week but it fell through. Did I want to be hit on or hit on guys? No! I am happily married but the food the music they play there & the chance to dance to great music with others who like dancing sounded GREAT. And hubby's away on holiday & sometimes he's too tired or self conscious to go out dancing like he used to with me. If I DID go out & some guy tried to hit on me I'd turn him down. Nicely but I'd STILL turn him down cos (a) I'm happily married and (b) I'd appreciate the attention but I didn't go there for that. SO not every girl who goes to a nightclub REGARDLESS of whether she's pretty or not is there to "score". I've met some GREAT guys that way I DID end up dating but it's not always like that for me - I mean not always what I wanted to happen so I've not always been open to that - & for gosh sakes it's a night club, it's not a brothel!
(It's OK to pick up & be picked up there though I'm just saying that's not the only thing people ever want to get out of going to a club!)
So this can come into it!

[aggie]

good point.

i have been to clubs with friends and my husband and everyone is just kind of dancing and having a good time.

sometimes i dance with my friends if my husband doesn't want to and guys will still try to pick you up... it is flattering, and we get a kick out of it, and no one is made to feel bad....

but absolutely excellent point...going out and having fun and eating and cocktails and dancing is sometimes just THAT

[PhoenixFlames]

Originally Posted by Indiana

Ps. I really don't understand what is meant by an 'ugly' girl. I use that word only in response to the OP.

I think it's actually rubbish, Nobody is 'ugly'.

This is an Attractive woman.



This is an Unattractive woman




Now whilst it appears I am taking it to extremes with the celebrity examples, to be fair the "type" of girls I am referring to were not far off the above two (without the celebrity of course).

As a male physical; female looks are extremely important and play a vital role in preferances in a companion.

I know they aren't important to a woman when she dates a guy. Sorry but they aren't and this has been reflected so many times by women who contradict this point by their "choice" in men.

I am fortunate enough to be a really good looking guy who is complimented on by many a female for Looks, Personality, Confidence etc so I don't tend to get rejected by the hot female.

What's really frustrating is that Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. Many scientific studies have determined a Mathematical way of Calculating what we find Physically Attractive, both face, body proportion and symetry.