Attractive Girl with Annoying Unattractive Friend in a Nightclub (Male Posting!)

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by aggie

i agree with the fact that people should stop labeling people as ugly. i really don't like when people make fun or criticize other people. )

Remove ugly from your vocab I think, it's just judgmental.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by aggie

i agree with the fact that people should stop labeling people as ugly. i really don't like when people make fun or criticize other people. you don't know what people are saying about you, and it may not be kind either.

You can call it whatever you want. Label her "profoundly unattractive" if you want. The situation still stands as a typical bar/club scene problem and if you want to hook up with the attractive girl you've got to solve it somehow.

[cylon]

Girls do this all the time.

girl a: "Is he cute?" girl b:"ooh, gross!"

/end.

[IFeelGood]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Maybe that would be the appropriate moment for you to ask for her phone number and offer to meet some time later. Did you do that?

The girl is no helpless five-year-old. If she's really interested, she won't let anybody drag her away. And if she really doesn't want to hurt her friend, she'll leave... but give you her phone number first.

If not, you'd better just face the truth: she's just not that into you.

On a side note, both labeling people as "ugly" and playing victim instead of taking full responsibility for your life circumstances is unattractive. Maybe they feel it?

Rose has hit the nail on the head! If a woman is interested in a man, she is NOT going to LET her friend drag her away. At the very least, it takes less than a minute to exchange phone numbers. A friend would certainly wait for that.

Guys, think about it. An attractive woman has many options, just because you strike up a conversation with her doesn't mean she is into you.

[James81]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Remove ugly from your vocab I think, it's just judgmental.

It's not judgemental.

It's an opinion, and you're definately entitled to that (one of the few things we as people actually ARE entitled to).

You don't need to soften the language to alleviate someone else's feelings. You just need to learn a little tact. Outright telling someone that they are ugly is probably going to hurt them needlessly...and for what?

But removing the word from your vocabulary? Nonsense. It's a word, it serves a purpose, and it has it's place.

Being judgmental is when you purposely try to hurt someone, or look down on someone for something they can't change.

Believing someone to be ugly isn't judgmental. Treating them differently because they are ugly is judgmental.

[IFeelGood]

Ugly is an ugly word. Choice of words, even in the mind make a difference. If you see someone as unattractive, you can focus on the more attractive qualities of the person instead. It is more ugly to look at someone as just ugly.

[James81]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Ugly is an ugly word. Choice of words, even in the mind make a difference. If you see someone as unattractive, you can focus on the more attractive qualities of the person instead. It is more ugly to look at someone as just ugly.

No, it's realistic.

I know a lot of ugly people (both inside and out). I make no bones about the fact that they are ugly (to myself I mean).

I DO, however, employ tact and not tell people I think they are ugly. That's just rude and uncalled for because I know that my telling them they are ugly (especially if they don't ask) is just going to hurt their feelings.

I also don't treat them differently. I treat everybody the same (until I get a response from them and gauge that response and then react in whatever way I deem necessary) whether they are ugly or beautiful.

But at the end of the day, the word I choose to describe some people remains (and will remain) as "ugly." I see no reason to soften the language (at least to myself) just because of it's connotation.

[IFeelGood]

James, why not look for the positive in people?

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by James81

Believing someone to be ugly isn't judgmental. Treating them differently because they are ugly is judgmental.

Isn't this thread all about treating someone differently because they are 'ugly'? Based on one girl's looks, the OP has decided
- she's unworthy of his pursuit in the first place
- she's jealous and manipulative
- she's deliberately harming his chances with her friend
- she needs to be 'managed' (used?) to his own ends, not someone of any inherent value

If the friend in the original scenario had been attractive to the OP, do you think he'd be making all those judgments?

[IFeelGood]

Originally Posted by Indiana

If the friend in the original scenario had been attractive to the OP, do you think he'd be making all those judgments?

And the response that most posters have given is that hey... don't blame the "ugly" friend, look at yourself. The attractive girl would give you her number if she is interested. The OP is too busy judging the friend as the reason and not looking at himself as the reason for the attractive girl not liking him but it is most likely (99.99%) the case.

And, as Rose pointed out. There may also be a subtle negative energy vibe that is there that the attractive girl is picking up on...

[aggie]

i have a question for the original poster, and anyone else focused on ugly:

what is your opinion, reasoning, excuse, whatever....IF said friend was a real hottie and SHE "dragged" her friend away????!!!!

who do you blame then? do you simply have trouble choosing which one? do you go for a menage a trois?....just curious guys.....

[James81]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

James, why not look for the positive in people?

I do look for the positive in people.

I just don't ignore the negative either. Mainly because I believe that being purely positive can be just as damaging as being purely negative. I seek balance, realism, and truth. The truth is ugly sometimes and there's not a thing I can do about it. Ignoring it or pretending it doesn't exist or rephrasing it in softer language doesn't do anything change it. Things are what they are...until they change.

[IFeelGood]

What is truth? The OP's truth is that he is a catch and that the attractive girl is into him but it is the "ugly" girl's fault for dragging her away. A vast majority of posters here believe the truth to be that OP wasn't such a catch (or in your words "ugly") or the attractive girl would not be dragged away.

[aggie]

there are ugly truths...but physical appearance....even if someone is unattractive, handicapped or deformed or born defective in some way....should the word "ugly" "unattractive" "imperfect" and some worse ones be applied so that they are "judged" by there appearance?

[James81]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

What is truth? The OP's truth is that he is a catch and that the attractive girl is into him but it is the "ugly" girl's fault for dragging her away. A vast majority of posters here believe the truth to be that OP wasn't such a catch (or in your words "ugly") or the attractive girl would not be dragged away.

I wasn't commenting on the OP's situation. I was just commenting on the reply that said "ugly is judgmental."

Originally Posted by aggie

there are ugly truths...but physical appearance....even if someone is unattractive, handicapped or deformed or born defective in some way....should the word "ugly" "unattractive" "imperfect" and some worse ones be applied so that they are "judged" by there appearance?

Physical description is not a judgment.

[aggie]

ok, a label then....an identity....physical attraction between two potential sexual partners aside....it somehow separates people and the recognition of their being becomes identified first by their outward physical appearance.

as i said...in the club...the annoying girlfriend that dragged her friend away could have been equally as good looking as her friend... maybe less so, but not "ugly" perhaps...

imo, the scenerio might have been described differently if this were the case...but the physically "ugly" person was immediately branded as a less than desirable human being in general...when that may not have been the case.

i think most people are aware that physical appearances pegs people and sometimes impedes or accelerates their successes in life.

[brendannz]

Yep, I know girls can refer to others as ugly too, sometimes.. noones a morally perfect angel.

I just find the term 'ugly' a bit dismissive and subjective. I can't really think of anyone I know being ugly, like you don't have to be attracted to everyone... even people who are ugly on the inside, I'd just say they complain too much or are nasty, that way you're being descriptive rather than dismissive..

I think the word "Cute" is actually an adorable form of imperfection or ugliness..

I blame my mum for my PC-ness

I don't think James81 is judgemental at all, because he says he doesn't treat ugly people any differently.

[James81]

I can be judgmental at times (it's part of what I work on in personal development), but it has nothing to do with labeling people.

Right now I'm sifting through what is appropriate judgment and what is more damaging, because I don't think that being judgmental is always a terrible thing. I think it depends on the situation.

For example, I can say without a doubt that I have no trouble in being judgmental with Adolph Hitler. That kind of thing. Judging by actions instead of stereotypes or labels (such as "ugly").

[blossom]

I think the same way as you do James81.

Ugly is a word, not a judgement, and we are allowed to use words realistically to describe people.

There are beautiful looking women and men who are ugly on the inside...that's a description of the ugliness they display to the world with their attitudes.
There are also beautiful looking people who are beautiful on the inside as well, that's just as much a description as a judgment, just in a 'positive' light, which wouldn't get everyones shackles up!
There are ugly looking people who are beautiful on the inside and ugly looking people who are truly ugly inside also.

Being too P.C only takes away freedom to use all words that are there to use.

Of course telling an ugly person that they are ugly is uncalled for and hurtful...but come on...let's face it, it's a tough world and there are lots of people who have faces like a cracked crab (as my mother would say)!
It doesn't mean they are not great people, it has nothing to do with their characters or personalities...it has everything to do with them being ' visually unappealing' and we are, after all, visual creatures.

I used to think ugly was an ugly word as well...now I just see it as a realistic word to use which can cause quite a reaction in people who want to be seen to be, and like to think of themselves as sensitive and 'nice'.

[rei]

ok then here's a question... i don't know the answer, or rather, i think you could possibly make a case either way...

can you respect someone you describe/label as physically ugly? is it easy to see that person as an equal, a reflection of yourself, a worthy human being if you look at them and slap the word ugly on their forehead? (i reveal my bias in this second question, but at least i own it.)

[James81]

Originally Posted by rei

ok then here's a question... i don't know the answer, or rather, i think you could possibly make a case either way...

can you respect someone you describe/label as physically ugly? is it easy to see that person as an equal, a reflection of yourself, a worthy human being if you look at them and slap the word ugly on their forehead? (i reveal my bias in this second question, but at least i own it.)

Absolutely.

Some of the people I respect the most are some hardcore ugly f***ers.

[rei]

but do you see them as worthy from the beginning, or do they have to earn that sense of worth by demonstrating some type of talent or excelling in some other dimension of life?

again, i am working under the assumption that every human is worthy and deserves to be treated as such.

[James81]

Originally Posted by rei

but do you see them as worthy from the beginning, or do they have to earn that sense of worth by demonstrating some type of talent or excelling in some other dimension of life?

again, i am working under the assumption that every human is worthy and deserves to be treated as such.

If you want the truth, I'm far more judgmental towards beautiful people than I am ugly people.

If anything, I make negative assumptions about a pretty person before I'll make negative assumptions about an ugly person.

[rei]

interesting... if i didn't know better i'd say it sounds like you pity the less attractive person, which is basically the opposite of respect.

i admire your candor here. quite impressive.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by blossom

Ugly is a word, not a judgement, and we are allowed to use words realistically to describe people.

well if you're not using it to their faces it's your business what you think of others

I just thought it was dismissive and subjective..

From experience, better looking people seem generally nicer..

[rei]

i agree with most of what you said brendan.

if we're going to connect niceness and level of physical attraction, in my experience people who are mildly-moderately attractive or mildly-moderately unattractive are usually nicer. people who are drop dead hot or incredibly unattractive seem, on average and from my experience only, to often either feel entitled or have a chip on their shoulder, respectively.

another example of one extreme mirroring another. but not always the case of course.

[James81]

Originally Posted by rei

interesting... if i didn't know better i'd say it sounds like you pity the less attractive person, which is basically the opposite of respect.

i admire your candor here. quite impressive.

I wouldn't say it was pity.

I think it's more rooted in a belief that I have that's not very useful that I've been trying to remove.

And that belief is that it seems like pretty people get handouts and favored because of their beauty, which to me seems really unfair.

I've also noticed that prettier people tend to have less interesting personalities. Partially because they probably don't have to develop it as much due to everyone favoring them for their looks.

I realize that it's not a good idea to hold a belief like this, but it's been reinforced quite a bit through personal observation and thus hard to remove.

On the other hand, "uglier" people tend to be more real and have better personalities in my experience.

[joelr]

For some reason I never call people ugly. Either "unattractive to me" - usually used to describe women whom my parents suggest I might consider dating after I divorced or "different looking".

Calling hypothetical people ugly doesn't seem so bad though.
How about "hugly"

There is truth is super hot people having different personalities. If you do reading on attractive people you'll find studies have shown they get favorable treatment all over the place - jobs, court, the lists are endless.
They do have less of a push to develop a personality that wins over others affection as there is always someone throwing themselves at them.

But there are exceptions. I've found them.

[rei]

Originally Posted by James81

I wouldn't say it was pity.

I think it's more rooted in a belief that I have that's not very useful that I've been trying to remove.

And that belief is that it seems like pretty people get handouts and favored because of their beauty, which to me seems really unfair.

I've also noticed that prettier people tend to have less interesting personalities. Partially because they probably don't have to develop it as much due to everyone favoring them for their looks.

I realize that it's not a good idea to hold a belief like this, but it's been reinforced quite a bit through personal observation and thus hard to remove.

On the other hand, "uglier" people tend to be more real and have better personalities in my experience.

so then along the lines of this...

Originally Posted by rei

people who are drop dead hot ... seem, on average and from my experience only, to often ...feel entitled...

?
most of us, if we're honest, also think that sort of thing is unfair. even attractive people may think "prettier people" have it too easy or something.

am i understanding then, it's not about pity for the unattractive person, it's more about a twinge of jealousy/disgust toward those who are just so insanely attractive they have had less reason to become interesting through developing their personalities?

[rei]

Originally Posted by joelr

For some reason I never call people ugly. Either "unattractive to me" - usually used to describe women whom my parents suggest I might consider dating after I divorced or "different looking".

Calling hypothetical people ugly doesn't seem so bad though.
How about "hugly"

lol! nice warm fuzzy ring to it...
not so much concerned with their hypothetical feelings?