gender misconceptions (for men and women)

[rei]

i think this forum has a large enough pool of people to have a beneficial effect in a dialogue between men and women. both genders, i think (to generalize on purpose) would like to understand the other better.

so ladies and gentlemen, here's a thread with that in mind. women, what would you like men to know about you or those who share your gender? and what would you like to ask men? same applies for males - what would you like the general female population to know about you, and what would you like to ask your feminine PD counterparts?

i can see the potential for massive generalizations to occur here; hopefully we can keep that to a minimum. try to speak from your own experience or from direct observation, and please don't assume everyone else sees things the same way. as i said, i'm hoping this thread will increase understanding, not reinforce stereotypes.

[AthenaMarina]

I would like men AND women to remember that not ALL women want to have children, to be mothers, even though most of them do.
I am a woman who doesn't want kids - even though I like them and work with them, for me that is enough! - I'm not the only one & I'm still every bit a woman.
AND I'm sick of hearing that women just want to talk and someone else to listen but men want to give solutions to help solve the problem. Hey I want to hear solutions too when I have a problem & give them to others! I'm also sick of people implying that ALL men cheat cos I'd like to think there are exceptions & my hubby could be one!

[IFeelGood]

I am sure that this ratio is not the "norm" but in my personal life, 4 of the last 5 relationship breakups I know of due to cheating involved the woman cheating on the man in one case with another woman.

[ssandra]

I´d like everybody to remember that women have sex drives as well... sometimes bigger than men even! And that that does not make us sluts, just healthy women!

[ar81]

Health and betrayal are different things.
When you start a relationship, your partner feelings are important.
Cheating is betrayal.
If someone wants to make free use of sex drive, it would be better to break first.

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by ar81

Health and betrayal are different things.
When you start a relationship, your partner feelings are important.
Cheating is betrayal.
If someone wants to make free use of sex drive, it would be better to break first.

I think the point was that a woman being openly sexual or wanting more sex than her man does is normal- I have sometimes felt that some men judge me negatively for enjoying sex or openly hinting that I want it, instead of acting all innocent and prim. This has nothing to do with cheating, but some men seem to have the misconception that any woman who admits to enjoying sex must be a slut and therefore must be a cheater.

[spirit4711]

What women may find interesting: if a man looks in lust to another woman, it's just that - lust. It's not that he wants to leave you, doesn't love you anymore, doesn't care for your feelings. He's in lust. That's all. Don't make a big fuss over it. Even if he would have sex with another woman, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or your relationship. Unless you choose to end it, of course.

There's no cause for jealousy either. I find that many women more or less equate love and jealousy. It's totally opposite. When there's jealousy, there's no love, and vice versa.

(Goes the same for men BTW.)

[jaamkie]

I think (some) men's biggest misconception is that women immediately know whether they're attracted to a man based on the first impression/physical appearance. For me at least, I'm attracted to men when I talk with them and we "click"- have similar interests, find each other amusing and intelligent, etc, and I use men's appearance to estimate the likelihood of a good conversation, not to immediately rule in/out a romance. Personally my criteria is a guy in the right age-range dressed casually/comfortably but also neatly and appropriately for the context (superficiality is a huge turn-off for me, but so is not caring/knowing enough to look more-or-less appropriate); who is smiling and engaged in the event (not annoyingly insecure/meek- I'm usually the follower in the relationship and I want a guy not afraid to take the lead) without trying to be the center of attention (I prefer quieter more thoughtful men because I enjoy long one-on-one conversations over large groups). This is just individual preference- there's no single best way to impress all women, but different traits attract different sorts of women on average. If you don't attract the right type for you, yes you might want to try doing something different, but no it isn't because you aren't handsome/rich enough or because all women are evil.

Another misconception some men have is that because women complain about overly-aggressive men, they should be the total opposite, pretending they aren't at all attracted (and putting themselves in the "friend zone"). Women do like to feel attractive, they just like to feel respected at the same time, not looked at as a sexual object. Women are also more sensitive (on average) to hidden feelings and dynamics, so men who try to hide their attraction just come off as sneaky and insecure (not at all attractive).

[cylon]

Monogamy isn't natural, and if we all understood that I think we'd all be much happier, because we would stop making the behavior of others so important. It takes a complete change of perspective though and our society isn't really willing to face this fact. I just think we would save so much stress from our lives if we accept there is no "one" person we are destined to spend our entire lives with. Maybe many people, but not just one.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Even if he would have sex with another woman, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or your relationship. Unless you choose to end it, of course.

do you mean this as hypothetical, if he would sleep with another woman, but doesn't? whether or not sleeping with another person marks the end of a relationship would depend on which rules were set up, wouldn't it? of course it would be necessary to be sure all involved are aware of the rules. i have found a lot of unpleasant turns in a relationship come from acting on a rule that isn't clear to the other party. (edit: ideally, a relationship should not involve a sense of ownership or obligation, nor should there be any control of the other through arbitrary rules. but most of us do have an idea of what we will or won't accept as behavior, and this is more what i'm getting at by speaking of 'rules.' if you prefer the flexibility connoted by 'guidelines' feel free to use it as a substitute.)

as a woman, i'd like guys to know there's often something useful in that hard-to-get stuff. honestly, i am not really a fan of the mind games, not at all, but i learned not too long ago that it's not appealing if a guy is constantly available in the courting phase. also, when it comes to getting physical, there is never ever ever a situation where 'no' really means 'yes.' and most women aren't crazy about the feeling of condoms either, but if we can suck it up you can too.

guys, i would like to know how it is that guys can seem to become a different person when you're around your friends. sometimes less mature, sometimes different in other ways. what's up with that? (i admit women can seem different with their friends as well.) and is it true that you will sometimes push our buttons on purpose because you think we're especially attractive when we're pissed off?

one more thing comes to mind - emotional unavailability. it's true there are plenty of emotionally unavailable women out there, but i'm wondering if any guys can speculate about the primary reason a guy might be emotionally unavailable. is this something that causes him pain or is it just a player mentality? and, assuming a guy would want to grow out of the emotionally unavailable stuff, what might a girl do to support this effort? (if a woman is bothered by the emotionally unavailable man, probably best to simply cut her losses of course, but let's pretend for the sake of argument she wouldn't want to - and she was too healthy to simply be a fixer.) what might she do to support the man who makes a decision to let go of the emotionally unavailable stuff for his own benefit, not just to please her (or get her into bed)?

speaking of getting a woman into bed, guys, what percentage of your own behavior is motivated by this?

[missing]

Originally Posted by cylon

Monogamy isn't natural, and if we all understood that I think we'd all be much happier, because we would stop making the behavior of others so important. It takes a complete change of perspective though and our society isn't really willing to face this fact. I just think we would save so much stress from our lives if we accept there is no "one" person we are destined to spend our entire lives with. Maybe many people, but not just one.

neither is civilization, but I like it all the same. Each requires some work and sacrifice to function, but there are also rewards that can't be met any other way. Just too keep this on topic, one generalization that annoys me is that monogamy is a woman thing, and men just want to screw around. Attached to that is the assumption that a man who wants monogamy just wants it because he knows he doesn't have the social skills to bed tons of women.

[cylon]

Well it's natural in the sense that humans agree to create the conditions that let it exist. It's just not a natural impulse, we didn't evolve to be monogamous, but to have many partners over our lifetimes, to ensure the survival of our species. That's why couples fall apart after a few years, it's just the natural twinge to move on. In the beginning, they want monogamy because that's how it works, they need to be attached to each other long enough to have a baby and make sure it's cared for. Once that cycle is complete (a few years) it's time to move on and repeat the process. And that's when couples start bickering and coming apart... nature is guiding them to move on and spread their genes around. It's just the way it is. Doesn't mean they need to split up, it just explains why gradually two people who were very close start to annoy the hell out of each other. "What went wrong? Is it me?" Those types of thoughts make people feel guilty and inadequate, when they are just guilty of being human.

My point is that if people accepted that that's why they fall out of love with each other, they won't blame the other person, won't ask "what did I do wrong" and won't think that somehow everyone else has it figured out, but they are faulty because their relationship isn't the perfect one they think it should be.

I think both men and women have unhealthy expectations about relationships.

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by missing

neither is civilization, but I like it all the same. Each requires some work and sacrifice to function, but there are also rewards that can't be met any other way. Just too keep this on topic, one generalization that annoys me is that monogamy is a woman thing, and men just want to screw around. Attached to that is the assumption that a man who wants monogamy just wants it because he knows he doesn't have the social skills to bed tons of women.

And equally annoying is the assumption that women SHOULD want only monogamy and a history of enjoying anything else is a sign that they'll never be able to commit.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by rei

do you mean this as hypothetical, if he would sleep with another woman, but doesn't? whether or not sleeping with another person marks the end of a relationship would depend on which rules were set up, wouldn't it? of course it would be necessary to be sure all involved are aware of the rules. i have found a lot of unpleasant turns in a relationship come from acting on a rule that isn't clear to the other party. (edit: ideally, a relationship should not involve a sense of ownership or obligation, nor should there be any control of the other through arbitrary rules. but most of us do have an idea of what we will or won't accept as behavior, and this is more what i'm getting at by speaking of 'rules.' if you prefer the flexibility connoted by 'guidelines' feel free to use it as a substitute.)

I'll respond to this part first, and maybe the other parts later.

Many women object to their partner being in lust with other women. From a simple look at another woman to honesly acknowledging 'Gosh, I really wonder how it would be to have sex with her', sharing his sexual fantasies about other women, it usually is 'not done'. Why? It has to do with silly rules of 'being faithful' to insecurity 'he doesn't love me anymore'. Or even ownership 'you belong to ME now, don't you DARE look at somebody else!!!'.

Let alone if a men has sex with another woman. Usually hell breaks loose. In my opinion many men would like to have sex with another woman but still love their partner and want to continue the relationship. For women it seems different, because they seem to equate sex and love much more than men.

Sure, it's wise if a couple has rules or agreements about what is or is not acceptable for them. The problem though is that most couples (at least that I know) don't have very explicit rules when they start a relationship. Each partner has his/her own set of rules. The pink cloud of being in love is more interesting than getting clear on eachothers' rules.

Anyway, the above is what I've experienced myself and observed in other couples.

I'm very interested in women's point of view re jealousy, being in lust (themselves and / or their partner). So shoot, ladies!

@rei: thanks for starting this topic! Great idea!

[missing]

Originally Posted by cylon

Well it's natural in the sense that humans agree to create the conditions that let it exist. It's just not a natural impulse, we didn't evolve to be monogamous, but to have many partners over our lifetimes, to ensure the survival of our species. That's why couples fall apart after a few years, it's just the natural twinge to move on. In the beginning, they want monogamy because that's how it works, they need to be attached to each other long enough to have a baby and make sure it's cared for. Once that cycle is complete (a few years) it's time to move on and repeat the process. And that's when couples start bickering and coming apart... nature is guiding them to move on and spread their genes around. It's just the way it is. Doesn't mean they need to split up, it just explains why gradually two people who were very close start to annoy the hell out of each other. "What went wrong? Is it me?" Those types of thoughts make people feel guilty and inadequate, when they are just guilty of being human.

My point is that if people accepted that that's why they fall out of love with each other, they won't blame the other person, won't ask "what did I do wrong" and won't think that somehow everyone else has it figured out, but they are faulty because their relationship isn't the perfect one they think it should be.

I think both men and women have unhealthy expectations about relationships.

this is an excellent point. anybody who wants to have a successful long term monogamous relationship should be aware of their nature, and what they are up against.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by missing

neither is civilization, but I like it all the same. Each requires some work and sacrifice to function, but there are also rewards that can't be met any other way.

Such as?

Just too keep this on topic, one generalization that annoys me is that monogamy is a woman thing, and men just want to screw around.

I've met a lot more men who want to screw around than women. Is your experience different?

Attached to that is the assumption that a man who wants monogamy just wants it because he knows he doesn't have the social skills to bed tons of women.

That's not my assumption. But it might be true that monogamy is desirable for both men AND women because of insecurity issues.

[rei]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

I'll respond to this part first, and maybe the other parts later.

Many women object to their partner being in lust with other women. From a simple look at another woman to honesly acknowledging 'Gosh, I really wonder how it would be to have sex with her', sharing his sexual fantasies about other women, it usually is 'not done'. Why? It has to do with silly rules of 'being faithful' to insecurity 'he doesn't love me anymore'. Or even ownership 'you belong to ME now, don't you DARE look at somebody else!!!'.

Let alone if a men has sex with another woman. Usually hell breaks loose. In my opinion many men would like to have sex with another woman but still love their partner and want to continue the relationship. For women it seems different, because they seem to equate sex and love much more than men.

Sure, it's wise if a couple has rules or agreements about what is or is not acceptable for them. The problem though is that most couples (at least that I know) don't have very explicit rules when they start a relationship. Each partner has his/her own set of rules. The pink cloud of being in love is more interesting than getting clear on eachothers' rules.

Anyway, the above is what I've experienced myself and observed in other couples.

I'm very interested in women's point of view re jealousy, being in lust (themselves and / or their partner). So shoot, ladies!

@rei: thanks for starting this topic! Great idea!

you're welcome, glad it's appreciated.
as far as screwing around, that is something that both genders will do. sometimes it may be for different reasons perhaps. most women i know of personally who screw around, or used to, have self-esteem issues. and the general thinking is that men who do it are just wanting a physical connection, nothing more. but my thinking is there are nymphomaniacs from both genders (textbook nymphomaniacs don't really enjoy sex, they use it as a substitute for tenderness and affection).

i'd say sometimes a little mild (*mild*) jealousy is flattering. not possessiveness though. and not when it gets beyond mild. if a couple has been together for a good while, a lil bit of jealousy can be a reminder that your partner still finds you attractive. but when it mainly stems from insecurity, that's not really fun. wouldn't be for me anyway.

my ex and i would have conversations about whether a woman was attractive to us both. it was kinda fun, though a couple of times i found myself not really enjoying it, it was usually interesting. i think the issue here is insecurity. if the jealousy or the reaction to it comes from significant insecurity, that's unpleasant and the insecurity is probably a bigger problem than checking out someone else or getting jealous over it. at least, that's my own position. other women may view it differently.

as far as rules go, i wouldn't think checking out other women would be as big a deal at the start of a relationship. at that point, the monogamy hasn't really been decided, and usually both people are still on their best behavior so it seems most guys would resist the urge to have roaming eyes - or they would still have those feel good chemicals pumping and actually have no interest in looking at other women.

[CoolBee]

I want men to know that all women are NOT necessarily interested in buying billions of pairs of shoes!

I overheard a very interesting conversation on the metro in London the other day - a guy had had a date last Wednesday and was talking to a female friend about it. To cut a long story short, he was very attracted to the woman and had gone home with her and stayed the night. The next day she had sent him a text saying she'd enjoyed the evening and ending it 'night night'. The female friend asked him how he had replied - he hadn't. She asked him whether he'd called her. He hadn't. The guy was obviously very attracted to this woman but HADNT called her or texted her or anything and this was nearly a week later!!!!
The female friend said 'my God, that poor woman' and the guy looked bemused "Why?" FF replied "She's probably feeling totally used, confused - you had a good time, you really like her, but you haven't called her at all!' The guy said "but why? I'm just a bit frightened of another relationship right now. Why would she be upset?" FF looked utterly astonished that this guy had NO CLUE as to how that poor woman was probably feeling. I had to get off the metro then so don't know what happened next.

Guys - if you sleep with a woman for heaven's sake call her the next day or at least answer her text even if you don't want to see her again!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by CoolBee

...
Guys - if you sleep with a woman for heaven's sake call her the next day or at least answer her text even if you don't want to see her again!

I'm male but I totally agreee with this one. I'm flabbergasted at the guy's behaviour in your post. I don't understand him either .

[CoolBee]

Yes - probably explains why he was single

[missing]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Such as?

do you mean the benefits of civilization or monogamy? It seems rather self explanatory to me but I can see where others would disagree. I mean, some people would rather live in a primitive war tribe, deep down. They'd feel more "alive" that way. More power to them, but it's not for me. Similarly, I don't want to burn my life's energy cycling through a bunch of mates, spreading myself thin, never truly giving my whole self emotionally to anybody.

I've met a lot more men who want to screw around than women. Is your experience different?

i think it depends whether you look at it from a macro or micro level. We tend to see the micro more because it's closer to us. Men want sexual variety, and thus are more liable to stray in the short term. Women usually pair bond with men sexually for longer periods, so on first glance they appear more monogamous. That said, it's balanced out long term, as men seem more capable of emotionally bonding with one woman for life. Women will pair bond with one guy for a while, and then look for a new guy to pair bond with. Their bonding period can last years (theoretically the time needed to raise a child, I suppose), so to onlookers they might seem more monogamous, but looking at the bigger picture where men bond for life, it becomes less the case. The best evidence I have for this is that most divorces are initiated by the woman, and divorce is a huge reason the suicide rate for middle aged men is disproportionately higher compared to women of the same age.

That's not my assumption. But it might be true that monogamy is desirable for both men AND women because of insecurity issues.

this might be true, but I don't see it as a bad thing. If you have a secure monogamous relationship, you can be free to focus your energies towards other areas relating to your true purpose in life. Not everybody is designed to do alright with polyamory.

[marinik]

In my experience women are "wrapped" in so many layers of conditioning and roles that they rarely admit what their true desires are. In growing up they are given so many messages of what is right for a "good girl"... a "true woman" good wife.. mother..and so on. On the other hand boys are given the "other" kind of messages which makes them "real men", so YES the biggest problems for women to communicate what do they want in sex (except oxytocinOxytocin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) would be all that we are considered sluts if we do express our desires.

And it is not just that we would like to try different things and different partners. It is the fact that if there is no communication and no imagination a sexual relationship becomes stale and boring. Also you have the very common scenario where one of the partner lets themselves go and becomes fat or does not take care of appearances and sometimes even hygiene.

The most interesting thing is that (in my experience) even when the roles in a relationship seem to be equal in all aspects after a very steamy sexual encounter the man would often joke of being sexually used and brought on the verge of exhaustion by the women. Even when it is so obvious he had a "great time" and it was all on his initiative. The subtle messages are always there.

[AthenaMarina]

It's called cheating for a reason.
Open relationships are one thing and it's mutual.
But if I am being faithful & sometimes even turning down opportunities for say sex with other people & then I find out hubby WASN'T even though we both AGREED we would be faithful & I thought we were BOTH sticking to that HOW is that fair on ME?! (And vice versa if I cheated on him.)
Like I said, open relationships are different it IS fair because BOTH partners can have sex with other people & be straight up about it.
I like honesty in this. If you just want sex, tell me, if you want an open relationship tell me, if you want marriage tell me whatever you want TELL me damn it! I like to know what to expect!!
My husband says he wants a monogamous marriage OK great but should he change his mind, he needs to ask for a divorce first - and he'd get it. And he knows that & expects the same from me.

[shasah]

rei = i'd say sometimes a little mild (*mild*) jealousy is flattering. not possessiveness though. and not when it gets beyond mild. if a couple has been together for a good while, a lil bit of jealousy can be a reminder that your partner still finds you attractive. but when it mainly stems from insecurity, that's not really fun. wouldn't be for me anyway.

100% agree with this. Mild jealousy is flattering, but no man owns me. For a man to question me excessively, especially about past relationships, is a "you're about to be dropped" moment. The past is the past, period. Can't change it, so why dwell on it.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by rei

as a woman, i'd like guys to know there's often something useful in that hard-to-get stuff. honestly, i am not really a fan of the mind games, not at all, but i learned not too long ago that it's not appealing if a guy is constantly available in the courting phase

...

one more thing comes to mind - emotional unavailability. it's true there are plenty of emotionally unavailable women out there, but i'm wondering if any guys can speculate about the primary reason a guy might be emotionally unavailable. is this something that causes him pain or is it just a player mentality?

Just a thought: If you're attracted to men that aren't available to date you in the courting phase, maybe there's a link to them being emotionally unavailable in the later phases?

Might be player mentality. Much of the PUA-material is centered around being busy and unavailable and not confessing your feelings to the girl to fuel the attraction. The old "you want what you can't get"-thing, I guess. Personally, I hate mind games. I'm dating a girl now and we've pretty much bypassed the whole "dating rules" thing. No waiting X days before calling her after a date - it's been clear we've both wanted to see each other again, so most dates have been set up at the end of the previous one. It's a lot more relaxed and comfortable than my previous dating experiences.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Just a thought: If you're attracted to men that aren't available to date you in the courting phase, maybe there's a link to them being emotionally unavailable in the later phases?

i said "constantly available" - a guy who is obviously available to date me because he is around and wants to talk any and every time i attempt contact and who attempts to contact me often.

women may think that is what we want, and in an established relationship it is important (for me) for a guy to be around, but in the very beginning stages this behavior, this being there every single time and calling or emailing several times a day is just clingy stuff. which is nonsense as a guy has not earned the right to be clingy at that point. and clingy is a turnoff at later stages as well, for me and probably many other females.

oh, i brought up the emotional unavailability for the potential benefit of other women because that is a fairly common complaint. i have not actually tried to have a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man. at least not a romantic relationship. for other kinds those guys work out well, no muss no fuss.

[shasah]

Originally Posted by rei

oh, i brought up the emotional unavailability for the potential benefit of other women because that is a fairly common complaint. i have not actually tried to have a relationship with an emotionally unavailable man. at least not a romantic relationship.

Lucky you I was married to one. Started out fine, but as time went on, it got old. Unfortunately for him, I started getting in touch with my emotions and wasn't able to maintain the status quo. So guys, while clingy is indeed unattractive, emotionally unavailable doesn't work either. I would hazard a guess that it works both ways, men don't find clingy women attractive, but would they really want one that is emotionally unavailable??

[rei]

Originally Posted by shasah

Lucky you I was married to one. Started out fine, but as time went on, it got old. Unfortunately for him, I started getting in touch with my emotions and wasn't able to maintain the status quo. So guys, while clingy is indeed unattractive, emotionally unavailable doesn't work either. I would hazard a guess that it works both ways, men don't find clingy women attractive, but would they really want one that is emotionally unavailable??

i think it probably does work both ways.
and really i think we attract those who are at a similar level of health (emotional/psychological health) as we are at a specific point in time. so it probably is not true that all or even most women don't want an emotionally unavailable man, because women who aren't as emotionally healthy would probably find comfort in a match like that. it seems that is somewhat how your own relationship started out, and once you took steps to greater emotional health your hubs was incredibly rattled. i'm single by choice right now, but if or when i end up in a serious relationship again, i hope it will be with someone who supports positive growth and is dedicated to growing himself.

actually, now that i think about it, i had a sort of something that became an unofficial relationship with an emotionally unavailable guy. (hope that sentence made sense!) but when we sat down to have 'the talk' (where is this going talk) it fizzled out. gotta give him credit though, he actually SAID he had a fear of commitment. i can't help but respect him for that.

[amj]

I'm speaking from my own experiences in my city, state, country.

We actually discussed this topic in one of my college classes a few years ago. Here is what the teacher told us:

Men treat sex as a fun activity ie shooting hoops
Women treat sex as a time for emotional bonding

Many men who cheat on their woman still have feelings for them and love them very much
Many women who cheat on their man no longer like/love their mate

For most men, sex and emotions do not go hand in hand
For a woman the opposite is true

I have spoken to many of my friends about this and we all feel the same way. Having sex with a woman you love is great but that doesn't stop the urge to have sex with other women. Women usually don't cheat unless they no longer care for their mate. Men usually cheat because having sex with other women is fun, not because they don't love their mate. I know many women don't want to hear this but it's true. Ask a man and he will agree with what I am saying.

[rei]

Originally Posted by amj

I'm speaking from my own experiences in my city, state, country.

We actually discussed this topic in one of my college classes a few years ago. Here is what the teacher told us:

Men treat sex as a fun activity ie shooting hoops
Women treat sex as a time for emotional bonding

Many men who cheat on their woman still have feelings for them and love them very much
Many women who cheat on their man no longer like/love their mate

For most men, sex and emotions do not go hand in hand
For a woman the opposite is true

I have spoken to many of my friends about this and we all feel the same way. Having sex with a woman you love is great but that doesn't stop the urge to have sex with other women. Women usually don't cheat unless they no longer care for their mate. Men usually cheat because having sex with other women is fun, not because they don't love their mate. I know many women don't want to hear this but it's true. Ask a man and he will agree with what I am saying.

i think that is a mostly accurate assessment amj - but incomplete. some of the women who cheat, as i understand it, do still care for their mates. but they don't believe they deserve a problem-free or problem-lite romance. it's basically masochistic behavior. they only care for their mates as much as they care for themselves, which isn't a whole lot. they can grow and change and improve their self-esteem of course, but this is another reason for infidelity initiated by the female.

i find it interesting that a thread about gender misconceptions has been largely used to discuss cheating. i guess betrayal is incredibly unpleasant for both genders, though to intentionally generalize, i would guess many males are less willing to admit feeling hurt. (yeah i know, generalizations and stereotypes are not very kosher.)