Meeting people not oriented towards growth

[cacheborn]

We meet all kinds of people during our everyday interactions and not all of them are oriented towards PD or growth. As I spend more and more time with growth oriented people, this distinction is becoming clearer to me. I find that when I am amongst people not oriented towards growth (lets call them PNOTG ), I am losing my energy. Even without interacting, they suck the energy out of me if we are in the same room. It's like I have a 72 hour jet lag or something. So the simple solution is I try to avoid such people or at least minimize interaction with them. This seems a logical choice except one situation, relatives! What do you do about them? Even if you avoid them at all other times, you have to meet them at festivals or family functions.

The PNOTG's seem to be going blindly through their lives, never questiuoning the social norms, placing security at the top of their list. They ask you the same questions, give you the same answers, without remembering that they have had the same conversation with you the last time you met. It's almost like their mantra is not to live consciously. They do not want to hear about anything new, if you tell them about it they look bored.

Have you met such people? And did you feel the same way as I did?

[mysticaltyger]

Um, yeah. People like that are the majority, unfortunately. And if the truth be told, most of us are at least a little bit closd minded about some things. So maybe it will help if you remember that when you interact with such people.

[Cristal Lilly]

oh yes, PNOTGs are everywhere!!

since I 'officially' started looking deeper and deeper into myself and my concept of reality, or started on this path or however you would like to call it, I have met such people everywhere.

even people who before I thought as quite enlightened, I began to realize even they were stuck in some old unrecognized patterns and limiting beliefs.
and I too had your reaction. I felt that they drain me, and I unconsciously resented them for it. I felt that they held me back. I pulled back in my interactions and focused on introspection.

and you know what happened? first I realized I was being resentful. that got me off my newlyfound high horse. and it got me to realize how I was doing the same unconscious-living trick again, I was pointing the finger at them for holding me back, when really it was all me not developing my inner power to think and act how I chose to think and act.

there was also an element of control there. I realized that the only person able to drag me down is me. the only person holding me back is me. and I chose to allow them to influence me because I had my own inner doubts about the path I was taking and because my gremlins were desperately acting out to preserve themselves, masking giving away my power and not being personally responsible for my life in the newfound shroud of personal development.
and that as much as I want them to let me be the way I am, I should also grant them the freedom of being who they are and making their own choices in life. I have the right to my own choice no matter what anyone thinks, but then so do they no matter what I think. and no matter how wiser and enlightened and spiritual and personally developed I am. seriously, I'm laughing hard at myself remembering that now, so thank you so much for a good laugh!

anyways, what I meant to say is that what you're feeling is perfectly normal. and that those people, no matter how much they annoy you, are PRICELESS for your personal growth. they were for me. I still meet them, and they still annoy me, and when that happens I take my pretty high horsie for a walk and then when I'm done I have new things to learn about myself and my perception of reality. sometimes the horsie doesn't even get his walk before this happens! now that's progress

these days, I don't feel the need to eliminate them from my life, especially family, and most times I don't even chose to give away my own power to them. and somehow, along the way, some of it got rubbed off on the people I thought would be the last people on earth to ever change (my family). some connections even got closer! funny that, huh?
and there are those that it didn't rub off on, that are perfectly fine with me now. and my connection to them is different, sometimes more distant, but always more loving, because even if we drift apart I find myself loving them for who they are much more and I find myself loving myself for keeping the relationships at a level that suits me and doing the loving thing for myself.

I babbled a lot here, but basically, if I had to say one thing, it would be that those people that you think are most awful for you are actually the best opportunity for you to learn about yourself and develop. personally.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Cristal Lilly

anyways, what I meant to say is that what you're feeling is perfectly normal. and that those people, no matter how much they annoy you, are PRICELESS for your personal growth. they were for me. I still meet them, and they still annoy me, and when that happens I take my pretty high horsie for a walk and then when I'm done I have new things to learn about myself and my perception of reality. sometimes the horsie doesn't even get his walk before this happens! now that's progress

I babbled a lot here, but basically, if I had to say one thing, it would be that those people that you think are most awful for you are actually the best opportunity for you to learn about yourself and develop. personally.

Well, I did not mean to sound as if I am superior or something. Perhaps I did not express myself clearly. and yes, they have full right to live their life as they choose. What I was talking about is the interaction. I feel more energized if I am with like-minded people.
You have a very good point. It's a good learning opportunity. I need to learn how to handle those interaction without letting them affect my energy state.

And you are so, so right when you say, "even people who before I thought as quite enlightened, I began to realize even they were stuck in some old unrecognized patterns and limiting beliefs." I had exactly the same experience. So my role models have changed now.

[Cristal Lilly]

oh no, I didn't mean to say you sounded superior. I was talking about myself and my pet high horsie, especially because I was SO shocked when I first realized I had this pet. if you knew me before, you'd (maybe) be shocked too, cause I was usually the one who was sickeningly tolerant and understanding and always trying to be humble and yadda yadda. so when I first saw this horsie, it was like 'wait, you're MINE? are you SURE? no... what? seriously? me with a high horsie? are you REALLY sure you're mine?'
LOL fun times

and the other thing you mentioned, the new role models... was that the same shock to you as it was to me? apparently this process involves me being shocked a lot LOL, but I was seriously yet again stumped cause it took me by such surprise. if anything, I thought I'd feel closer to them, but lo and behold I was actually feeling less 'kindred' to them as time went.

and want to know another shocker? some people who never were 'officially' in personal development turned out to have it together way better than I thought, and I figured out how they were already doing a lot of this PD stuff, except they expressed it differently (PD does seem to have a language of its own) and it was just something they did naturally. things like being in the moment, positive visualisation, etc.

[cacheborn]

yeah, I can understand. It's fun when you discover something about yourself which you did not know you had. It's an 'Aha' moment. I have had such moments from time to time, and I enjoy them.

The things about new role models struck me quite recently. I Have been trying to get in PD for a long time, without realizing it. So I read a lot of books on psychology and psychotherapy 'cos I thought that was THE way to do it. It did help me, but only up to a point. Then I discovered different ways to pursue PD and I also found that lot of people are interested in it. So now when I meet old acquaintances, teachers who were my role models at that time, I find that I look at them in quite a different light.

I have not met anybody so far who is into PD without doing it formally so to speak. But I am sure there are people like that, PD comes naturally to them.

[aggie]

pod people

i don't get too upset about them...it is easier to be an ostrich and have no individual thought process or intellectual curiosity. it can be annoying...sometimes you feel like your walking among stepford wives or the body snatchers....but i just go on my way.

they probably don't get exhausted by themselve though!

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Cristal Lilly

and want to know another shocker? some people who never were 'officially' in personal development turned out to have it together way better than I thought, and I figured out how they were already doing a lot of this PD stuff, except they expressed it differently (PD does seem to have a language of its own) and it was just something they did naturally. things like being in the moment, positive visualisation, etc.

I think this is a great point. Personal development isn't a new thing. It's been around since the beginning of time and, on the surface, comes in many different forms. But when you get to the core, it's the same.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

I find that when I am amongst people not oriented towards growth (lets call them PNOTG ), I am losing my energy. Even without interacting, they suck the energy out of me if we are in the same room.

It's not them; it's you.

It's your choice if you want to give away your energy to others, and to believe they are "sucking" something out of you. And if you really want to develop personal power, move to being at cause, and let go of living at effect. You have the capacity for having limitless power, regardless of who is in the room (festival, family function), regardless of what they're thinking, doing, or saying; regardless of how they are oriented.

Choosing to avoid people is valid, but it's weak. It's choosing to live at effect. It's a great tool to use if you're in imminent danger, but it's pretty wimpy and lame as a general lifestyle.

You don't have to, of course, but if you want to, you can choose to be a limitless source of energy, not only for yourself, but for others as well. When you are being a limitless source of energy, you cannot be depleted or diminished.

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by aggie

i don't get too upset about them...

Me neither.
In case I do notice that I experience some 'negative' reaction, as mentioned already, I try to make it into a learning experience.
When people notice the changes/progress you've made, very often they ask you about it and that's when we discuss it, but they rarely refer to it as PD, which is fine by me, as long as we get to share ideas and learn from each other.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Cristal Lilly

.... I was seriously yet again stumped cause it took me by such surprise. if anything, I thought I'd feel closer to them, but lo and behold I was actually feeling less 'kindred' to them as time went.

You might consider that finding limiting beliefs and other gunk in others makes you MORE kindred to them. Just like you, just like me, just like just about everyone* -- we all have in common that it's much easier to see other people's gunk than it is to see your own. For me, that's a source of compassion. To see that just like me, others are unconsciously trying to avoid having people find out their limiting beliefs are true, and at the same time trying to prove they are not true. Exhausting, huh? It's wonderful, it's exhilarating, to unconceal the unconscious limits, and even the limits are limitless. As Byron Katie says, "you're never done."

*Actually, I don't think any humans are completely free of limiting beliefs. I think that's part of the human game, and when you completely transcend limiting belief, it's time for the next stage. Hanging around being a limitless human, I think, would be like being a psychic spending all her time playing "Clue."

[James81]

I love non-growth oriented people. They tend to know how to have a good time.

Of course, I like to have a good mix of people in my life, so I obviously want some growth oriented friends around me. But I also like to have a good time and have some fun, and the non-growth oriented people tend to be better at that.

[aggie]

you are so right....i never really thought about it, but no pretenses, no expectations or lofty ambitions....just parteyyyy

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Angela

It's not them; it's you.

It's your choice if you want to give away your energy to others, and to believe they are "sucking" something out of you. And if you really want to develop personal power, move to being at cause, and let go of living at effect. You have the capacity for having limitless power, regardless of who is in the room (festival, family function), regardless of what they're thinking, doing, or saying; regardless of how they are oriented.

Choosing to avoid people is valid, but it's weak. It's choosing to live at effect. It's a great tool to use if you're in imminent danger, but it's pretty wimpy and lame as a general lifestyle.

You don't have to, of course, but if you want to, you can choose to be a limitless source of energy, not only for yourself, but for others as well. When you are being a limitless source of energy, you cannot be depleted or diminished.

Yes, I agree. The responsibility is mine. And I am sure with practice I will get better at it. At the moment, I have to make a lot of effort to keep my energy level same if I am around such people. And the difference is amazing if I am around high energy people, like in this forum. So IMO, one of the valid options is surround myself with such people as much as possible.

By the way, I should make it clear that I don't hate those people. Also, I am not hiding in the basement to avoid them. To tell you the truth, I wrote this post in a rather low-energy state. I spent two days with relatives who can be a tough competition to Frank and Estelle Costanza.

In such cases, I have to make a lot of effort just to keep my head above the water.

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

a tough competition to Frank and Estelle Costanza.

I think they're great

I have relatives like that, and at first I used to feel like you. Now, however, I have lots of fun being around them, I pretend I'm in a ''theatre comedy play'', I've accepted them for who they are and the things that come out of their mouths just amaze me I'm sure they think the same way about me.
And...I don't see them that often

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Tanja

I think they're great

I have relatives like that, and at first I used to feel like you. Now, however, I have lots of fun being around them, I pretend I'm in a ''theatre comedy play'', I've accepted them for who they are and the things that come out of their mouths just amaze me I'm sure they think the same way about me.
And...I don't see them that often

Serenity Now!!!
Yes, maybe I should try remembering Seinfeld when I am around them. I have also some relatives like Uncle Leo.

I like your last line.

[liamona]

Originally Posted by James81

I love non-growth oriented people. They tend to know how to have a good time.

Of course, I like to have a good mix of people in my life, so I obviously want some growth oriented friends around me. But I also like to have a good time and have some fun, and the non-growth oriented people tend to be better at that.

I notice that I have more fun with the friends I don't talk about serious subjects with.

I guess I've equated serious subjects with being negative. I'd like to learn to be critical and discerning yet also keep a sense of humor and not let it get me down.

[aggie]

i don't equate serious with negative.

let's face it, everyone comes from a different perspective of life....if you are from a background of modest means in any sense of the word...you could be very intelligent if someone gives you a chance and listens, and not assume you have nothing worthwhile to contribute on a "serious" level.

some people are just busy living the nitty gritty of life and are very down to earth and straight forward and without pretense. what i perceive as negative are the people that are lazy about life and as i said, have no independent thought process or curiosity.

someone who may appear or fancy themselves a serious intellect could be an absolute bore or come across as down right snobby.

i have found that the most delightful gatherings where i have enjoyed myself the most are where there are people from all different levels of intellect, "social" standing, background, ethnicity, employment, etc.
everyone always has a blast and much of that is because of the host or hostess that has such a wonderful variety of friends and acquaintances.

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

Serenity Now!!!
Yes, maybe I should try remembering Seinfeld when I am around them. I have also some relatives like Uncle Leo.
I like your last line.

I tried to understand where they were coming from and why they were the way they were. Of course, I'm not saying that it was always easy or that I was able to do it. But you realize that they're doing their best and whenever I experienced some negative reaction/felt hurt/annoyed etc I asked myself why.

However, if everything else fails, the last line is the key

Originally Posted by liamona

I'd like to learn to be critical and discerning yet also keep a sense of humor and not let it get me down.

I have to say that ever since I started to try to get to know myself better, less things get me down and I like to think that my sense of humour hasn't suffered either
As far as having fun goes, I haven't noticed any difference between the growth and non-growth-oriented people.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Tanja

I tried to understand where they were coming from and why they were the way they were. Of course, I'm not saying that it was always easy or that I was able to do it. But you realize that they're doing their best and whenever I experienced some negative reaction/felt hurt/annoyed etc I asked myself why.

However, if everything else fails, the last line is the key


I have to say that ever since I started to try to get to know myself better, less things get me down and I like to think that my sense of humour hasn't suffered either
As far as having fun goes, I haven't noticed any difference between the growth and non-growth-oriented people.

I understand. Looking at the situation from another person's perspective can be difficult, at the same time it gives lots of insights. And it is also a good test for you, if you can keep your energy up all the time.
Sometimes though, when I am really struggling to do it, I wonder if my efforts could be spent on more productive things.

[cacheborn]

"Incoming, relatives, PNOTG as notified by intelligence. Will reach the base at 18:00 hrs, Thursday.
All systems at DEFCON2.
Private will keep his energy up throughout the encounter, by whatever means necessary. Private will not engage in any verbal warfare. Private will strive to be joyful, energetic and happy throughout this period. Is that clear?"

"Yes, Sir"

"I said, is that clear?"

"Sir, yes Sir!"

[OlderWiser]

Originally Posted by cacheborn

The PNOTG's seem to be going blindly through their lives, never questiuoning the social norms, placing security at the top of their list. They ask you the same questions, give you the same answers, without remembering that they have had the same conversation with you the last time you met. It's almost like their mantra is not to live consciously. They do not want to hear about anything new, if you tell them about it they look bored.

Have you met such people?

Of course. It accounts for more than 99% of people on the planet. You can't avoid them!

[IFeelGood]

Being present is key...

[Kindred]

I find happiness in having friends and family living unconsciously, knowing that the more times I ring in their lives, the more they wake from their deep slumber. Sure they might not wake up in this life time, but at least it gives their spirit something to work with.

I don't see it as losing energy to them per se, but instead as giving them energy to help them grow.

Think about all the people that helped Steve grow, all the people that helped you grow, all the people you've helped to grow, all the people helped to grow by the people you've helped grow, and so on. In the end, by helping others grow you are really helping yourself grow.

Shake the pond, baby!

[roxyruby]

I think those of us into Growth or PD have been through painful experiences that these type of people haven't

Maybe that is severe emotional trauma, severe physical pain, severe mistreatment, severe financial difficulties etc.

Therefore they didn't have a need to adapt, they didn't have a need to consciously change them-self to be a happier person. The normal style of life works for them and they are comfortable and happy. Therefore they have no interest in change.

We got into Personal Development because we were severely uncomfortable or unhappy, but now we might be comfortable and happy but keep doing it because we found out how useful it was.

But those other people don't have the necessary pain level to begin to be interested in it I guess.

And you don't HAVE to see your family members. It will take COURAGE but if they are not good for you, you don't have to hang around them. Who cares about what is socially acceptable, there are more important things than what people think.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Kindred

I find happiness in having friends and family living unconsciously, knowing that the more times I ring in their lives, the more they wake from their deep slumber. Sure they might not wake up in this life time, but at least it gives their spirit something to work with.

I don't see it as losing energy to them per se, but instead as giving them energy to help them grow.

Think about all the people that helped Steve grow, all the people that helped you grow, all the people you've helped to grow, all the people helped to grow by the people you've helped grow, and so on. In the end, by helping others grow you are really helping yourself grow.

Shake the pond, baby!

Great perspective, Kindred. I found it very inspiring.

To be at the place where you are, I have to do more work I guess. You have this energy that seems to flow freely. Instead, in my case perhaps part of it is restricted. What I need to learn is how to hold on my own when I come in contact with such people.

I agree with the growth perspective. It feels good, too. In my case, I have the hardest time in dealing with relatives who have no idea what personal growth is. And in some cases, their only goal is to see what advantages they can get out of the relationships. In such cases, I have a hard time dealing with them patiently.

Can I borrow your relatives for a while?

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

I think those of us into Growth or PD have been through painful experiences that these type of people haven't

Maybe that is severe emotional trauma, severe physical pain, severe mistreatment, severe financial difficulties etc.

Therefore they didn't have a need to adapt, they didn't have a need to consciously change them-self to be a happier person. The normal style of life works for them and they are comfortable and happy. Therefore they have no interest in change.

We got into Personal Development because we were severely uncomfortable or unhappy, but now we might be comfortable and happy but keep doing it because we found out how useful it was.

But those other people don't have the necessary pain level to begin to be interested in it I guess.

And you don't HAVE to see your family members. It will take COURAGE but if they are not good for you, you don't have to hang around them. Who cares about what is socially acceptable, there are more important things than what people think.

I agree with you, Roxy. In my case, it was intense emotional pain that made me take the path of personal growth. And I find it fortunate because for some people that is replaced by alcohol or drugs or something like that. Everyone has his/her own way of dealing with pain.

With family members it can become difficult sometime because they know you well and know how to push your buttons. Then you have to make a choice weather you want to play the game or not. It is this part that I find energy consuming.

Yes, I don't have to see them. I have not been very attached to my family and that is easier for me to do. In fact one of my goals this year is to move into an environment which is conducive to growth.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by IFeelGood

Being present is key...

Yes, I have found Eckhart Tolle extremely helpful in such situations.

[Magicinthenight]

Hmm, I think most people do grow and develop even without immersing into PD the way people on these boards do. I've witnessed many friends go through big life changes and come to realisations that sound very much like PD stuff. Not all people are interested in gaining any higher consciousness either, and that's fine.

You can still learn from those people, you can still enjoy their company. When it comes to family and the button pushing, I think you can view it as a growth experience. See if they still manage to push that button. And when they don't, you realise that's no longer an issue for you/you don't care if they try because you don't feel any need to react to it.

[cacheborn]

Originally Posted by Magicinthenight

Hmm, I think most people do grow and develop even without immersing into PD the way people on these boards do. I've witnessed many friends go through big life changes and come to realisations that sound very much like PD stuff. Not all people are interested in gaining any higher consciousness either, and that's fine.

You can still learn from those people, you can still enjoy their company. When it comes to family and the button pushing, I think you can view it as a growth experience. See if they still manage to push that button. And when they don't, you realise that's no longer an issue for you/you don't care if they try because you don't feel any need to react to it.

Yes, there are many people who grow and learn through experience without formally getting into PD. In fact, I love meeting such people. Sometimes, you meet them in the most unexpected places.

I am still learning to deal with family. One valid alternative, as Roxy suggested is to leave them. That is not so difficult for me as we are not very intimate. Quite the opposite actually. I do try to view it as a growth experience and with practice I am sure I will get better. And my family will make sure that I get enough practice.