Do you think it's important to have sex with someone before you marry them?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by marinik

What if we don't have a religion?

Then it's not against your religion .

[marinik]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Then it's not against your religion .

I know, but that is no the correct answer!

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by marinik

I know, but that is no the correct answer!

Yep, for a second I thought that was the trick... we'd all say "It's not against my religion" and then he comes back to us to say "but you haven't got a religion" LOL..

Just as well that wasn't the case, then 90% of the people who voted would be suckers.. (including myself)

[marinik]

Originally Posted by brendannz

just as well that wasn't the case, then 90% of the people who voted would be suckers.. (including myself)

yup!

[SmartAlx]

You don't need to be so defensive. I'll make you a deal. Answer the poll (substituting belief system for religion) and if I come back and say "oh, I thought you don't have a religion" or something equally stupid you can tell me "I told you so." I said many times that I don't have an ulterior motive.

[alsy]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You don't need to be so defensive. I'll make you a deal. Answer the poll (substituting belief system for religion) and if I come back and say "oh, I thought you don't have a religion" or something equally stupid you can tell me "I told you so." I said many times that I don't have an ulterior motive.

It seems as though you are trying to determine which group of beliefs to follow or apply to your life. ie, compare the consensus group belief against your religious group belief. You are amidst people whos paradigms (seems to me) are completely unfathomable, or totally alien to the ones that have led you to operate to the point at which you are right now.

So whats the deal. Do you believe in your religion or don't you. What is going to take precedent. Is it going to be the most popular answer in the poll. Is it going to be some other belief system you tap into. Is it going to be your own decision, or what. I am not expecting an answer, but merely leaving questions in my reply for your contemplation.

The whole crux of the matter is beliefs. What beliefs to work from. It is beliefs that direct us/ move us, and create what is true for us. That is why Steve has a big board to remind him of the affirmations that help embed the beliefs when he is in his office.

Substituting belief system for religion as you suggested, still makes it impossible for people outside of your confined paradigms of reality to answer your question. I can understand how you might be conflicting between your beliefs and your religions beliefs, as that is to be expected due to it being exoteric. Exoteric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I have actually lived conflict of beliefs. It has been a long journey, but i have just gotten on my feet. Putting aside cultural, familial and other sets of beliefs.

To ask someone like myself who views marriage from an esoteric point of view, would reveal contradictory answers which can not be answered in your poll. It is just impossible.

btw. in my mother tongue, Eso in Esoteric simply means inside/ in/ inner.

Even putting the Exoteric and Esoteric differences aside, your request to substitute is like asking if my belief system is against my belief system. It is impossible. I either do what is in my heart, or i don"t.

I would like to add something in regards to your perception of being attacked, pissy, stupid, "you know what i mean", etc, etc You have many assumptions, and projections of which you believe to be coming from outside of yourself, when it appears to me as an opportunity to grow if you so choose. I did not perceive such things from the posters, and truly believe there is a misunderstanding out of the beliefs you hold and operate out of. If i remember correctly, i think you mentioned in another post about the Holy Spirit being something you believe in. It is not part of my paradigm, as i see the human in a way that is foreign to you. I merely present the idea that if you like, you can work with that aspect that makes up your reality (Holy Spirit), as it is an opportunity for you to grow if you so choose. I don't really know what your "thing" is. Perhaps Jesus, or something else. I can see a potential potential to expand / grow within yourself if you so choose. All answers will be given. Just ask.

[SmartAlx]

Your assumption about my goal in this question is wrong. I am very confident about my position on the matter. I'm trying to understand a part of the population that I disagree with.

[alsy]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Your assumption about my goal in this question is wrong. I am very confident about my position on the matter. I'm trying to understand a part of the population that I disagree with.

Fair enough. I am not Mr pefecto.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by alsy

Substituting belief system for religion as you suggested, still makes it impossible for people outside of your confined paradigms of reality to answer your question...

...To ask someone like myself who views marriage from an esoteric point of view, would reveal contradictory answers which can not be answered in your poll. It is just impossible...

...your request to substitute is like asking if my belief system is against my belief system. It is impossible. I either do what is in my heart, or i don"t.

It's really not as difficult as you are trying to make it out to be. Simply answer these two questions:

1. Does your belief system embrace or reject sex outside of marriage?Embrace, Reject, or is the answer simply "No?" If it's not "reject", then just choose one of the middle answers.
2. Do you think that it's important to have sex with someone before you marry them?

Why is that so difficult to answer? You have a belief system. We all do. It either supports sex outside of marriage, it rejects it, or it doesn't care one way or another. Any human being who understands even a speck of logic can fit their belief system into one of my 8 choices. That is unless you refuse to put it in there on principal, and if you are doing that you are just being a curmudgeon.

And by the way to call your belief system "esoteric" basically is admitting that you are elitest. That is the definition of esoteric after all... thinking that you are privy to some "inside knowledge" that sets you apart. I don't want any part of that.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

You don't need to be so defensive. I'll make you a deal. Answer the poll (substituting belief system for religion) and if I come back and say "oh, I thought you don't have a religion" or something equally stupid you can tell me "I told you so." I said many times that I don't have an ulterior motive.

Why? Are you not content that people are participating? What is your motive if this is your reaction for this pole? An how can anybodies post here be stupid? Forrest Gump just said hello.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by marinik

Why? Are you not content that people are participating?

No, I'm not content that some people are REFUSING to participate simply because I chose to use the word "religion" in the question.

And look again. I didn't tell anyone that their post was stupid. I said that I wouldn't post anything stupid like "I thought you don't have a religion."

[marinik]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

No, I'm not content that some people are REFUSING to participate simply because I chose to use the word "religion" in the question.

So what, that is their right. Just as it is for you to use the word, although it is a logical obstacle for the ones that have no religion. So just put belief system in brackets. It odes not have to be a conflict all the time.

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by marinik

So what, that is their right. Just as it is for you to use the word, although it is a logical obstacle for the ones that have no religion. So just put belief system in brackets. It odes not have to be a conflict all the time.

And it's my right not to like it.

Would that I could go back and change the question. But I can't. We are all stuck with it the way it is and the reason that people can't just go with my meaning instead of focussing on the specific definition of the word is beyond me. They're just being argumentative, even if they aren't actively participating in the argument.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

Would that I could go back and change the question. But I can't. We are all stuck with it the way it is and the reason that people can't just go with my meaning instead of focussing on the specific definition of the word is beyond me. They're just being argumentative, even if they aren't actively participating in the argument.

But I do not see your meaning as you say behind the word religion. So can't others. You know what you meant but we are not mind readers. And most of us know what religion is.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A religion is a system of human thought which usually includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth.[1] Religion is commonly identified by the practitioner's prayer, ritual, meditation, music and art, among other things, but more generally is interwoven with society and politics. It may focus on specific supernatural, metaphysical, and moral claims about reality (the cosmos and human nature) which may yield a set of religious laws, ethics, and a particular lifestyle. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and religious experience.

The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system,"[2] but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.

[marinik]

And BTW words are all we have here to communicate!

[SmartAlx]

Originally Posted by marinik

But I do not see your meaning as you say behind the word religion. So can't others. You know what you meant but we are not mind readers. And most of us know what religion is.

Originally Posted by marinik

And BTW words are all we have here to communicate!

That is totally not true. We are all intelligent humans. We aren't moronic androids limited by dictionary/wikipedia definitions. We can infer meaning behind the words. We can read between the lines.

Why can't y'all? Or more accurately, why WON'T you?

And I did JUST explain the question in more detail...

1. Does your belief system embrace or reject sex outside of marriage?Embrace, Reject, or is the answer simply "No?" If it's not "reject", then just choose one of the middle answers.
2. Do you think that it's important to have sex with someone before you marry them?

[marinik]

I answered your pole ages ago. Just trying to understand what you don't about the rest of us.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

I'm trying to understand a part of the population that I disagree with.

I think by discussing this to develop more understanding, you're doing a good thing.

When I said that thing about this whole question being a trap, I was mainly joking really.. (sorry, to joke around) Initially I wondered if you were here to preach, but now I think you're here to understand.. so good luck with your understanding.. I already answered this..

[alsy]

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

And by the way to call your belief system "esoteric" basically is admitting that you are elitest. That is the definition of esoteric after all... thinking that you are privy to some "inside knowledge" that sets you apart.

In looking at several different dictionary meanings, i can see how it comes across as elitist. However, Elitist was not what i was meaning. That is why i mentioned the Greek meaning of the word. When a word such as that contains Greek, i look at the Greek meaning, and that often gives me the bigger picture. It gets me closer to the essence, or essential meaning. The essence tells me a lot more than getting caught up in the words that are used in dictionary to try and define the meaning. Having said that, i can see that this has still be a fruitful interaction in a number of ways, and have revealed a number of understandings about myself.

Originally Posted by SmartAlx

It's really not as difficult as you are trying to make it out to be. Simply answer these two questions:

1. Does your belief system embrace or reject sex outside of marriage?Embrace, Reject, or is the answer simply "No?" If it's not "reject", then just choose one of the middle answers.
2. Do you think that it's important to have sex with someone before you marry them?


Why is that so difficult to answer? You have a belief system. We all do. It either supports sex outside of marriage, it rejects it, or it doesn't care one way or another. Any human being who understands even a speck of logic can fit their belief system into one of my 8 choices. That is unless you refuse to put it in there on principal, and if you are doing that you are just being a curmudgeon..

Well, it is obviously not difficult for you to answer, but it is for me. That is why others and myself, have been giving you the opportunity to clarify if you so desire.

It is not a matter of principle at all. We each think the way we do. We each believe the way we do. We each perceive and communicate the way we do. It is an individual matter. We do not all experience ourselves in the same way. Each person has their unique neurological relationship, and how they process and communicate. Some are more left brain, some are more right brain, some give different meanings to the same word.
You know what you mean with whatever you say, or write. I know what i mean in what i say or write. Someone else knows what they mean and what they say or write, but somewhere, somehow, the receiving of that meaning may not necessarily come across to be received as it was originally. Sometimes slight variations. Sometimes huge. Sometimes not at all. So all we can really do when it doesn't happen in its fullness, is go back and forth to clarify. I obviously was incorrect in at least something i thought of you, but would not have known if you did not communicate it. That's what we are doing here.

You have expressed that people are just not answering, and as if they are receiving and perceiving your meaning in the way you do. Why would i or anyone commit so much time to respond to your post.

When you started this poll, the line of questioning also came across as if everyone has a religion. ie, having a deity, it is external. (getting back to that inner, out relationship i have been trying to convey as being different) You have been trying to address this, of which i appreciate, but it still seems like we are on different planets to some degree.

Your question comes across as assuming everyone believes in marriage, and as if it is everyone's goal is to get married, and does get married. That is ones sticking point. Now, i am sure there is something in the hardware store for removing glue.

The traditional marriage as a physical act that involves rituals is not part of my idea of marriage, but it was one that i thought was "right" for a while, becuase that is what i was born into from my parents culture that had a religious inflence to it. That concept evolved into what i now recognise as the belief of Marriage before sex as an internal marriage/ the inner union before sex. One that is not bound by time, Hierarchical blessings, paperwork, or any other external acts (that i was referring to as Exoteric/ outside of oneself). A union where the masculine and feminine become one. Where the lover and the loved disappear, and all that is left is love. There are other aspects that i understand, but difficult to describe, and i don't understand all of it. Its been a matter of some aspects that i have understood in the particular way i have evolved into relating, and some other aspects i may only be aware of in sense, but i don't really understand. We have been slow to understand each other in this thread, so i don't like the chances of even thinking about trying to understand something that i am still evolving with.

So, do you understand my predicament in being unable to answer your poll in its current format?

ADDED this note the day after;;
@ SmartAlx, I am not going to expend any more energy in this thread. Perhaps that means one less irritation to you. As much as it seems that way to me (not me specifically, but generally in this thread) i cant really know 100% if that is the case, and even if hypothetically it were confirmed to be 100% true, then it is really none of my business when you have not asked for some of what i said in my previous reply. You do as you please, be as you please, and respond as you please, think, see, or believe to be fit for you.
Thanks

[The Daredevil]

I have mentioned "Yes" though its against my religion and i am male.... I am of the kind that any commitment is more meaningful, truthful and unconditional only when it is not bound by any judicial proceedings...

If both are in true love and are sure that they both cant live life without each other, there is no great sin in making love before marriage...

Since sex is just the ultimate form of expression of true love they have on each other according to me.... No better language in the world have any words to express love than making love... It should not be restricted and cannot be restricted by legal proceedings such as marriage and all other stuffs...

I also prefer sayin this as "making love" than "having sex"... Lot of difference between these.... Latter to just fulfill sexual desire, but the former to experience the zenith of love....

[rei]

better late than never... maybe.

SmartAlx, i didn't even know you were so perturbed by my previous post, where i said i did not understand. but you obviously made an assumption if you were labeling me an atheist. i'm not an atheist. i believe in a Source for all things. but i'm not religious.

[songindarkness]

I don't really have a religion, so that doesn't bother me. I believe in a spiritual power now, I was born into Catholicism and was a hardcore atheist until recently.

I think it is important to have sex before marriage, because committing to someone on a physical level is at least equally as important as any other. Right? Because mind, body, and spirit are all connected. Sex can be incredibly spiritual if you have the attitude that it is about love. So if I was going to make a lifelong committment to someone, I would want to know that I could have meaningful, loving sex with them. Any religion that is against that, IMHO, should rethink itself.