Friendship to relationship

[pjgat09]

I'm quite confused as to what to do. I recently became really good friends with a girl in school. We were lab partners in science for a while, and we talk alot in the halls. Ever since she gave me her screen name, we have been chatting about many different deep subjects. We also discussed relationships, and she told me about a crush she has on one of my friends. She has been asking me for advice and other help to decide if she wants to persue a relationship with him. I'm rather stuck as to what to do.

The reason I am stuck is, I like her, but I am not sure how to ask if she has any feelings for me, and if not I do not want to mess up this great friendship I have. I was hoping someone could help me out, it would be rather appreciated!

[Justis]

pjgat09,

The next time she is asking you about pursuing a relationship with your friend, say to her, "I'd be happy to give you advice about my friend, but in doing so I have mixed feelings." If she asks why, then there is your window of opportunity. Lay it all on the line, and tell her how you really feel about her, and be honest with her. Even if she doesn't ask why you'd have mixed feelings, tell her how you feel.

However, this is the tough part, you have to be ready for her response and reaction, and you have to be prepared to act on the outcome. If she says that she has stronger feelings for you as well, then ask her if she'd like to go out some time.

If she says that she doesn't really have feelings for you other than friendship, then you need to be able to handle that, and live with that. Say something like, "I can respect that, and I'd still like to maintain our friendship."

The reason I stress that last part is because, this is the hardest thing to put behind you. If you have strong feelings for her, they are going to stay put probably as long as you two are friends. You may find that if she doesn't want to be more than friends, and you do, than a friendship may not be possible. Whatever you do, please do not hang on as a friend with hopes that she'll change her mind, because this can be a long, hard road. It will consume you and strain the friendship.

No matter the outcome, though, at least you'll be able to look back on it as handling it like a man, and knowing that you were honest with yourself.

Hope that helps.

Justis

[John Hill]

There is only one thing you can do and you know what that is. You have to come clean with her and tell her how you feel. You'll go nuts if you don't. If she's keen on you too, that's great, however if this turns out to have a negative impact on your friendship this is a shame but it's really your only option. Good luck mate.

John

[Scorpio]

To be honest this sounds like a classic 'Friend Zone' scenario. She likely doesn't see you as boyfriend material (e.g., she's asking you how she can get with your friend).

You still have to lay it on the line, but be prepared for the outcome not going your way. If she says she's not interested then do not, do not, do not continue to hang around her while carrying a torch for her, hoping things will change. You'll go crazy and waste the time you could have spent looking for someone else. Continue to be her friend if you can handle it, but move on romantically.

[RT Wolf]

You're on the wrong ladder. I only know of one or two guys who can and have and do successfully jump the ladders, but...they wouldn't be posting here so I don't think you're one of them.

There's a few things here. 1. There are always great friendships to be had. For a simple psychological reason that you like what you have a lot more than uncertainty (fear of change). 2. You're operating out of a scarcity mentality in relation to human relationships. Convert to an abundance mentality and see how it affects you. Believe that there are great people and great relationships out there and you're ready for them. 3. If your friendship is so strong, it should be ok with you revealing your feeilngs, HOWEVER, you need to make it clear that if she says no, you will not pursue her anymore. Hanging around makes you less likely to be asked out because it makes you seem less dominant and confident (as per the other thread). 4. Make sure you really do like her.

That last point may sound a little strange. Guys are not like girls, we don't segregate the people with meet into friend or boyfriend material. We have the ability to start liking the women we hang around with a lot. Make sure that you are not being affected by not talking to more than her or a very few women and that you actually have genuine feelings for her and you think she's a great person. This point is important.

Be ok with walking away if the friendship turns sour. If this was a bet, that is your downside, losing the friendship. Your upside is possibly gaining a relationship. The question is, what kind of a risk-taker are you?

Take heart: men everywhere find the courage to tell their female friends that they mean more to them than just friends...and get shot down. You are not alone, it's an experience in life everyone should have.

I don't know whether I actually clarified the situation any.

Good luck!

[sallyfrieldam]

hi pjgat09

If you can let her know that you like her. She will likely take it as a compliment and then will tell you how she feels. I know its hard but at least you'll know you gave it a shot.

Women definitely have the ability to fall in love with their friends. We dont segregate people into different categories. Loads of my female friends are in relationships with men they were friends with. My boyfriend and I were friends for six months and have been together for six years.

A pattern I have noticed with some men is that they fancy a girl and become her friend in the hopes of going out with her. I know a girl called Sarah and she is stunning, both in looks and personality. Girls dont like being friends with her (its hard not to feel jealous next to someone every guy fancies)and guys are friends with her whilst there is a hope she may fancy them. Its really sad because a lot of the guys end up taking out their hurt feelings on sarah and being nasty to her when they realise she isnt interested in them in that way and dump her because they were never her friend in the first place, they just wanted to get something from her.

So its likely that your friend will not mind you finding her attractive and if you can be ok with her whatever happens she will probably really appreciate that too

Good luck!

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by pjgat09

...and if not I do not want to mess up this great friendship I have.

I've had personal experience in both revealing my feelings, and keeping them to myself for fear of ruining the friendship. I can tell you without any doubt I feel much better about revealing my feelings. In the cases where I didn't do so, I regretted it for a while, and still wonder 'what if?'. In the other cases, where she didn't feel the same, I know I did all I knew I could at the time, and have no regrets that it didn't go my way (disappointment of course, but no regret).

In none of those cases did I lose the friendship, and in most of those cases the friendship became stronger. That could just be because of the type of girls I'm attracted to, and the way I form strong connections, but whatever the case, nothing was ever lost by revealing my feelings.

[pjgat09]

Thank you all! You've given me the confidence I needed to just be a man and talk to her. I plan on talking to her tomorrow in school, and I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks again!

[cylon]

Don't pour your heart out to her man. Ask her out on a casual date, like coffee. You're already in the friend zone... the best you can do is get her alone, start teasing her, get her to laugh... you want to see if she's into you before you embarass yourself. If this goes sour, you may lose a friendship.

It's tough. And I would strongly recommend, for you to avoid making friends with girls and chatting online in the future in a platonic way. If you do this you are in store for lots of pain, frustration, heartbreak.

I've been down this road too many times. Women aren't generally attracted to men who talk about emotional stuff... it's like you become a girl to them.
She's already asked you about your friend.

Do whatever feels right to you, but my suggestion is, be very casual. Don't pour your heart out. See if she wants to be alone with you. She'll know what's up. And if she's interested, she'll help you along. If not, she'll let you know before you even manage to finish your little speech. Good luck.

I recommend you explore this site.

[Dimitry]

Just as everyone said, ask her out upfront. Tell her that you're interested in her. But be ready for an answer and to act on it. If she likes you, great. If not, well, don't try again and again. You might say "I wont" right now but it becomes VERY tempting and I'm seeing a friend going through this now.

If she says no, then cut that option right out of your mind. If you need to distance yourself from her for a bit to take that crush out, do so. You might think you'll ruin a friendship that way but if you tell her that you need some time to put things back into perspective so you can go back to being friends, you might actually save the friendship.

Just be responsible for whatever the outcome of your actions is and learn from it. If this doesn't work out, do something different next time. Ask the girl out right away for coffee and figure out if you want to date her before you develope a crush. If you think she has potential, then ask continue the behaviour that leads to a relationship (i.e give her a kiss on the first/second/third, whatever date you feel works for you. Just don't prolonge it)

[Colm OReilly]

Sally's advice is the most realistic and truthful by far.

Although I don't have a lot of time right now to clarify my thoughts, simply I think the problem stems from just having the notion of "friends", "relationships" and "love".

I know it makes it easier to categorise things but in doing so you limit them and yourself. There is no procedure for a friendship or a relationship.There is no one way or one type.

Colm

[elainevdw]

As a girl who's been in that position several times, I want to assure you that, if this girl is anything like me, she'll be very flattered and initially embarrassed, but won't let it ruin your friendship.

You might find that she returns your romantic feelings, but I don't think that's very likely. Girls (most people, really) are all about the status quo. If you are friends, she will want to maintain that friendship. On the disappointing side, that means she probably won't want to date you, but on the positive side, that means that she will definitely want to keep you as her friend.

Definitely tell her, though. That way, she won't bitch about you acting all weird after she's just regaled you with her last make-out session with one of your buddies. She'll know how to not hurt your feelings, and she'll know not to accidentally lead you on.

In my opinion, whether they're aware of it or not, girls like being friends with guys who have crushes on them, because they like the attention. It's a sad state when the girl doesn't realize that the guy likes her, and the guy is too shy/scared to say anything, though, because it can result in misunderstandings and sore feelings.

In a girl, not recognizing a crush is usually a sign of inexperience. I didn't realize my high school guy friends liked me until I was well into college and started dating. I was like, "OH. That's what was going on." And it wasn't until college that some of my guy friends who liked me started talking to me about it. One guy got super pissed at me when I told him that I wasn't interested, and we didn't talk until he got married a few years later, unfortunately. But my other guy friends and I joked about it a little and went on with our lives. And now, even if the guy doesn't want to say anything to me, I usually recognize it and am careful not to lead him on. That way, if he wants to be friends with me knowing that I'm not interested in romance, it's an honest friendship from the get-go.

Anyway, I hope that helps. The bottom line is, tell her, and don't be afraid that she's going to disown you as her friend! (If she does... it's probably just another sign of inexperience, and I'm sure she'll come around about it sooner rather than later.)

[wolfgang]

I wonder what happened. I was in a position where I felt I had to let a girl know I liked her and turned out she wasn't interested. I asked her to a school dance and I got turned down. We used to walk to classes together and were friends for half a year.

I was glad that I asked her out. It's hard to maintain friendship status if you are pining for someone secretly. Eventually I had to stop walking her to class, or rather I decided not to since it was hard to want her knowing she wouldn't go out with me.

Then the next year or so we were able to be freinds, after I found feelings for someone else and was dating. And we even talked about how I wanted her and that it was hard for her to let me down. But it would have been great if she said yes, and I had to try. I remember saying "You can't blame me for trying, you are a catch".

[pjgat09]

Hey guys,
I worked up the courage yesterday and talked to her about how I felt. I told her that I liked her, and she seemed a little shocked and it got sort of akward. We talked about it while we walked and she was very cool about it all, but she didn't feel the feelings. After school we chatted online. It was a little akward at first, but now we are both cool with it. I don't really think our friendship had changed besides that she knows how I feel now.

Like Mark said, I was disappointed, but I don't regret doing it. I feel better knowing I let out my feelings. I feel even better knowing that it didn't mess up our friendship.

Thanks for your help guys!

[Erock]

Yeah, I feel your pain man, but that's how girls operate. They like a guy who is honest about his intentions. It's crazy, but I've been in this same situation. She probably liked you, like enough for you to ask her out, weeks ago, but because you didn't initiate during that window, she assumed you just wanted to be friends.

Live and learn
Erock

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Erock

Yeah, I feel your pain man, but that's how girls operate. They like a guy who is honest about his intentions. It's crazy, but I've been in this same situation. She probably liked you, like enough for you to ask her out, weeks ago, but because you didn't initiate during that window, she assumed you just wanted to be friends.

Seems like many guys go through this trial by fire. I did this a few times too when I was younger, and it took me a long time to understand the psychology behind it. What you said is exactly what happens because girls usually expect the guy to be the initiator. Even if they are interested in a guy initially, if that guy doesn't make his move within a certain timeframe they'll probably assume he's not interested and move on.

On the other hand guys can often be shy and unsure of how to approach the girl, so they stall and try to become friends to get more comfortable with her. But if your intention is to date her, then this is a terrible way to go and is virtually guaranteed to result in failure. I think they should teach male/female psychology in school, because this isn't something most people understand intuitively.

[Mark Lapierre]

Good work pjgat09!

Now next time you meet a girl you're interested in, as cylon suggested, work on building attraction (and chemistry) first. Personal experience, and frustrated tales of many of my guy friends, tells me that once a girl considers you a friend, she's unlikely to change her mind. As Sally said, it's possible (and it has worked that way for me twice), but it's far less likely than if she's interested in you as more than a friend from the start.

Originally Posted by Erock

She probably liked you, like enough for you to ask her out, weeks ago, but because you didn't initiate during that window, she assumed you just wanted to be friends.

...And then she got together with someone else. Possibly just after you built up the nerve to do something about your feelings, but before you could actually do it. If even if you did get there first, it was a few weeks too late. Been there, wrote the angst-ridden journal entries

Originally Posted by Baltar

I think they should teach male/female psychology in school, because this isn't something most people understand intuitively.

From talking to some of my girl friends, it seems they understand it more than guys do. As for guys who understand it, some take it a little far, such as the Pick Up Artists, but even they have a lot to offer in terms of how to get girls to feel the same kind of attraction that most guys feel just by looking at a girl

I'd suggest that any guy who can relate to pjgat09's situation go out and learn from the PUAs, either from reading what they've written (plenty of sites out there), or better yet, hanging out with them and seeing them in action. Of course you don't have to try to become a pick up artist, but you can go a long way toward not ending up in this sort of predicament again.

[pjgat09]

Originally Posted by Baltar

On the other hand guys can often be shy and unsure of how to approach the girl, so they stall and try to become friends to get more comfortable with her. But if your intention is to date her, then this is a terrible way to go and is virtually guaranteed to result in failure. I think they should teach male/female psychology in school, because this isn't something most people understand intuitively.

I think a class like that would be a great idea, but I can't see my school ever doing it. We have a psychology class now, but it is not very indepth, and is still intuitively taught. However, you wouldn't see me complaining if they did start a class like that.

I guess I have had it all backwards about becoming comfortable with aproaching a girl, I'll have to reconsider how that all works. Guess its time for me to be less shy...

[cylon]

I agree this stuff could be taught in schools. As men, we are raised with the wrong info, usually from people who are well meaning, but are speaking about how things SHOULD be, not how they ARE.

You don't break out of the friend zone, and you don't take your time. Life is meant to be lived in the moment, that's where the opportunity is. PM me if you'd like to know more about the link I provided.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Baltar

I think they should teach male/female psychology in school, because this isn't something most people understand intuitively.

I think most people understand it intuitively, but then they stack on a dozen other conflicting understandings that confuse the intuition into nonsense.

But teaching it as a class? i can see a possibility, but my regard for the education system is insufficient to condone even daring something like that. There are other things that people need to learn that they aren't; we have 6 billion people. Reproduction can wait.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

But teaching it as a class? i can see a possibility, but my regard for the education system is insufficient to condone even daring something like that. There are other things that people need to learn that they aren't; we have 6 billion people. Reproduction can wait.

It's not so much about reproduction than communicating and understanding other people. As I see, there are plenty of problems in world that one way or another root from bad communication.

[wolfgang]

So there's the idea that a guy has to make a move before the girl puts him in the friend catagory. That sounds like PUA stuff to me, of the not so good kind. If a girl is interested and the guy doesn't make a move, she might just be in the same boat - wondering when he's going to ask her or trying to figure out how to ask him. So the two are just being friends until such time as either of them speak up. Also, once two find each other and are intersted to be romantic or whatever you call it, a friendship is like a foundation. It's not like lovers aren't also friends in the best sense.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Erki

It's not so much about reproduction than communicating and understanding other people. As I see, there are plenty of problems in world that one way or another root from bad communication.

In which case, the minor detail of "male/female" is irrelevant. The only time when gender matters in problems of communication is when reproduction is involved.

But we already have classes on public speaking, argumentation, and discourse.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

So there's the idea that a guy has to make a move before the girl puts him in the friend catagory. That sounds like PUA stuff to me, of the not so good kind. If a girl is interested and the guy doesn't make a move, she might just be in the same boat - wondering when he's going to ask her or trying to figure out how to ask him. So the two are just being friends until such time as either of them speak up. Also, once two find each other and are intersted to be romantic or whatever you call it, a friendship is like a foundation. It's not like lovers aren't also friends in the best sense.

I understand where you are coming from, and it may seem like a negative concept since the PUA community recognizes it, but it's really society who instills the idea that the guy has to make the first move, and because of all those crappy sitcoms we all watched when we were kids where the nervous high school guy asks the girl to the dance, we subconciously think this is the way it has to go down.

One may have noble ideas in their head how they want to become friends first, but, unless you let the other person know, they might be moving on mentally, as in this case. Most of the time, girls do not make the move. I don't blame them, because like I said above, it's conditioning, and most of the time, if a girl is interested in a guy, she will try to make it blatantly obvious, and if he doesn't pick up these hints, then she feels frusterated. Most girls have trouble being direct, even if they are frusterated, because that would be going against conditioning, and that's why guys always hear them complain about how there are no good men.

It's nobodys fault really, but I would say that for men who often wind up in the friend zone, watch for signals and go for it earlier.

Erock

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

The only time when gender matters in problems of communication is when reproduction is involved.

Technically, when sex is or could be involved, not just reproduction. I'm sure most people having these specific communication problems don't give a damn about reproduction

And I guess some people would say they're looking for love, not sex, so gender matters in problems of communication when dating is involved. And even then, same-sex couples undoubtedly have communication problems too.

So I believe classes on the psychology of attraction and subsequent interactions should be separate from classes on general communication.

But you're right, there are more important things to learn in school. We can learn the rest in social settings. Unfortunately far too many miss out on those learning opportunities.

[Michael Chui]

Social mores should be learned by immersion in society, which school just so happens to be a part of. They're not things that should be explicitly taught, because that defeats the whole point of implicit understanding on which society founds itself.

This was probably the most mindless post I've made since joining... sorry if it sounds odd. I think I'm just assuming the stuff I've decided on myself without detailing an argument. I'll get around to writing out my thoughts someday.