Why are females attracted to confident men?

[tc33]

Hey PDers

Can someone please explain to me why females are attracted to confident men, and why they place such a high value on this attribute?

I don't understand the underlying logic here. For example, an educated/intelligent man is more able to provide resources. A man with a good sense of humor provides laughter/joy. A physically fit man provides vitality/eye candy. Along the same lines, what benefit does a woman receive from being with a confident man?

Thanks!

Tom

[RT Wolf]

One theory (and the one I believe to be correct) comes from evolutionary biology and simple group dynamics. Most human beings' (even those living in "advanced" societies) behaviour is surprisingly similar to ape or early human or tribal behavior.

Women are attracted to status and men are attracted to fertility and youth. There's a couple of ways to measure status in today's society such as money, power. Higher status men also carry themselves confidently and are more confident because of their social position. Forunately, the attraction mechanism is not that smart, and women (subconsiously) think that if someone is confident, they're higher status. Ergo, women are attracted to confident males (who might or might not in fact be high status). Jerks who are also fairly confident-appearing, attract women for that reason. Higher status males can have their pick of the women in a given group, so women are more accepting of their situation including being taken advantage of and being just plain neglected.

Why women want higher status males is fairly simple, there is (and/or was) greater protection and perks for being a high status female, including protection of your child, better genes for that child and the greater likelihood of your own genes being passed on (because a kid with better genes is more likely to survive and breed), and more food and so forth that the male received for simply being higher status. So our genes built a heirarchy into us cause it served our genes well.

I hope I've explained myself clearly, my head's a little murky right now.

[munish]

My question is " why are men attracted to beautiful females and not to females having a homely face ?"

As, i feel both these questions are interlinked in some way.

[tc33]

RT Wolf, thanks for the quick and intelligent response. From what I understand, you're saying that:
- confidence is an indicator of higher status
- higher status males are more likely to provide benefits/resources that lower status males cannot
- higher status males are more likely to be genetically superior, thus enabling the creation of genetically-superior offspring

Interesting theory -- seems logical to me. I agree that human behavior can be surprisingly similar to ape or early human behavior. Thanks for your input RT Wolf.

Does anyone else have an alternate theory of why confidence is attractive? Anything from a female's perspective? Thanks for your insight!

Tom

[Yellow]

Originally Posted by tc33

RT Wolf, thanks for the quick and intelligent response. From what I understand, you're saying that:
- confidence is an indicator of higher status
- higher status males are more likely to provide benefits/resources that lower status males cannot
- higher status males are more likely to be genetically superior, thus enabling the creation of genetically-superior offspring

Tom, confidence is an indicator of good health and so it is inferred that the person has good genes to pass on and ability to provide well for female's future offspring. I am talking about it in terms of animal behaviour and it makes sense to apply it to human subconscious as well.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by munish

My question is " why are men attracted to beautiful females and not to females having a homely face ?"

As, i feel both these questions are interlinked in some way.

It depends on how you define beautiful. And how you define "homely"

What is considered beautiful is partly genetic, partly personal and partly situational. Genetically speaking, we are very attracted to symmetry. An example of a young woman who is not "beautiful" by extremely symmetrical is Alizee (french pop star). Former President Clinton was EXTREMELY symmetrical. We are also attracted to clear skin, which indicates health and freedom from skin diseases and parasites.

Personally speaking, many men and women have preferences about what is considered beautiful. For example, I think the stick thin super models are not attractive at all. I also think that Paris Hilton is very unattractive. And, of course, people are influenced by others. That's partly why some women are attracted to men that other women have, because it's social proof that the man is attractive, and it's the same vice versa.

Situationally speaking, in many countries a woman with a little fat is considered beautiful (partly because it indicates better ability to sustain pregnancy), while in the West being thin is generally considered beautiful. A few hundred years ago, women who were plumper were also considered beautiful here in the West.

Largely (I believe), we are influenced by genetic traits. Men are attracted to larger breasts because the fat stores in the breasts indicate ability to sustain pregnancy, as well as good estrogen levels. Men are also attracted to a very small waist-to-hip ratio of around 0.7, which is a key sign of fertility. The Miss America winners of the past many years all had very close to the .7 ratio. More info here:

Waist-hip ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's hard to answer why evolution ended up using attraction as the yardstick, but it is rampant in other species as well. In any species where one sex is bigger than the other, one has to court the other, and each sex looking for the best genes to mix with their own and have children. There's that competition. Women are looking for higher status males, because (in the olden days) higher status usually correlated with greater physical ability, which is a great thing to have in kids cuase it helps them survive the random leopard attacks. That's why taller men are wanted, because height indicates good nutrition and better physical shape. Peacocks and hyenas both have the males being courted, as well as (I think) moorhens, where the females are bigger than the males. Men are looking for females and like I said above, we're highly attracted to signs of fertility and ability to raise and birth children.

Another thing is what your definiton of a "beautiful" versus "homely" face is. It has been theorized that men and women are both drawn to the exotic because of the variety of genes that it represents, but in my experience that hasn't been too true.

The book Mean Genes has a great explanation of all this. I highly recommend it, cause it also talks about other issues, too (greed, risk, the tendancy to eat a lot, and so on).

Some more info here:
Sexual attraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: An amusing study: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Women's choice of men goes in cycles

I also remembered another amusing study where women were asked to rate the attractiveness of an ugly man wearing a rolex versus a good looking man wearing a burger king uniform. Guess who was more attractive.

[Cron]

Why are men also attracted to confident women?

Simple, people associate lower self esteem with people who are down a lot: down about themselves, the future, their future etc. Those people tend to be less enjoyable company.

[tc33]

Originally Posted by Cron

Why are men also attracted to confident women?

Simple, people associate lower self esteem with people who are down a lot: down about themselves, the future, their future etc. Those people tend to be less enjoyable company.

I'm not particularly attracted to confident women, which is probably why the answer to my original question has eluded me (until today, that is). However, your point is well taken. I can definitely see how confidence is indicitive of optimism/friendliness/enjoyable company. Naturally, most people want to be around optimistic people rather than pessimistic people. Good insight!

Tom

[StarFish]

I can only speak for myself (and I am female if that helps) I'm a fairly confident person, and I can't stand being around people who aren't confident. They bring me down. Plus, when you like someone and think they are wonderful, smart, funny and hot you want him to think the same things about themselves.

[sallyfrieldam]

Our attraction to the opposite sex seems to be partially conditioned into us by society trends, hence why small breasts were sexually attractive in the 20's, big strong women considered fat by western society are attractive in places like Gambia etc etc.

As laws change around the world and women can legally become independent of men (it is no longer illegal to get divorced, it is legal for her to earn and keep money) study after study reveals that women want physical beauty, youth and health in men.

Psychology Today's November/December 1993 issue, was a survey of 1,500 readers, twice as many womem answered than men. The results were analyzed in depth by psychiatrist Michael Pertschuk, M.D.


The women that were financially independent and rated themselves as physically attractive placed a high value on male appearance. They had a strong preference for better-looking men. They also care more about penis size, both width and length.


Historian Thomas Laqueur, Ph.D., says "It wasn't until the rise of capitalism and the bourgeoisie that men renounced flagrant beauty and adopted the plain suit as a uniform. During the so-called "great masculine renunciation" men began to associate masculinity with usefulness. Then, notes Laqueur, "gradually women became the bearers of the science of splendor."


In most cultures, women seem to choose sexual partners on the basis of a male's ability to protect and provide for a mate and offspring--whether that is a big salary, hunting game, or achievement as a warrior. And when women have gained political power, they have responded powerfully to male looks. Freed from economic worries, Queen Elizabeth I flirted shamelessly with
the handsome Raleigh; Catherine the Great took a long list of comely, but otherwise ordinary, lovers."

Traditionally, beautiful women have been able to leverage their looks to snare a wealthy and powerful man. Now that some women have greater financial independence, they may use that power to seek a stunning mate.

Women also love a tall man--Hatfield and Sprecher found that women prefer a man at least six inches taller than themselves

Both men and women in the survey rated a trimmer, taller male as more attractive.

Hair, in turn, is another highly valued masculine signpost. Hair is a traditional signal of youth and power, an index of male virility.

Last month, Stephen T. Emlen, an evolutionary biologist at Cornell University, reported in a study that people basically want partners with qualities they attribute to themselves. The desire for similar mates, Emlen found, was five to six times more powerful than the desire for beautiful or wealthy partners. Emlen's study was published in the Proceedings of the National

Academy of Sciences. Beautiful attractive women wanted beautiful atttractive men, rich money wanted rich men Despite all their differences, men and women place high value on one trait: fidelity.

Cornell University's Stephen Emlen and colleagues asked nearly 1,000 people age 18 to 24 to rank several attributes, including physical attractiveness, health, social status, ambition, and faithfulness, on a desirability scale. People who rated themselves favorably as long-term partners were more particular about the attributes of potential mates. After fidelity, the most important attributes were physical appearance, family commitment, and wealth and status.


The study, conducted by researchers at the University of Michigan's School of Public Health, found women may judge potential mates by how masculine their facial features are before getting to know them.

Researchers tested about 850 male and female undergraduates usually digitally altered pictures of male faces and found women viewed men with "masculine features" like prominent brow ridges and large jaws, as good short-term partners – but saw them as more likely to cheat on a spouse and get into fights.

"She will prefer a highly masculine face for a short-term relationship where the potential genetic investment would be most important, and a more feminine face for a long-term relationship, where a stable, supportive relationship and ability and willingness to care for children would be more important."


Confidence is a sign of being secure in yourself. According to studies Women (and men) want sexual fidelity. No society exists in the world where a woman is encouraged to have many sexual partners (in european countries a highly sexual woman is prized but she is punished i.e. labelled a slut if she acts out on her sexual nature) whereas in almost every society in the world a man is rewarded if he has lots of sexual partners (i.e. labelled a stud) Insecure people tend to need positive strokes from society rather than have the ability to self reference, so women know that a truly confident man will not bow to the pressure from society to prove to the world he is a stud by cheating on her and lieing about it.

[tc33]

Originally Posted by sallyfrieldam

As laws change around the world and women can legally become independent of men (it is no longer illegal to get divorced, it is legal for her to earn and keep money) study after study reveals that women want physical beauty, youth and health in men.

...

The women that were financially independent and rated themselves as physically attractive placed a high value on male appearance. They had a strong preference for better-looking men. They also care more about penis size, both width and length.

Interesting...looks like Maslow's heirarchy of needs ( Abraham Maslow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) is predictive, yet again. Based on your information, Sally, and the knowledge contained within this thread, I would venture to conclude:
- most women look to primarily fulfill their 'physiological' and 'safety' needs when seeking out men, with a secondary focus on 'love/belonging' and above
- the women that are self-sustaining look to primarily fulfill their 'love/belonging' needs via men, and aim for good-looking men in order to enjoy sex and create genetically-superior offspring
- men, expected to be self-sustaining, also look to fulfill their 'love/belonging' needs via women, aiming for attractive women for the same reasons as described above

Perhaps I am overgeneralizing here, or trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. Either way, this is neat stuff! Human behavior is fascinating...

Tom

[C33]

Outward confidence, doesn t mean a person is truly confident.

Personally, I like men who are low key and shy, and do not need to prove they are confident,by acting confident outwardly.

Yet, I am still single, so maybe I should let biology decide of my love life!

[cylon]

tc33,

just curious, what is your reason for posting this topic? You looking to get women or is it just an intellectual thing?

[Scorpio]

It may just be that women see confidence as attractive in and of itself. There's no reason for it, they just like it.

Also, what's the alternative? I'm a guy, but I'd prefer a confident (not cocky) person to someone who's down on themselves.

[tc33]

Originally Posted by cylon

just curious, what is your reason for posting this topic? You looking to get women or is it just an intellectual thing?

cylon - primarily my reason was intellectual. As a former non-confident person (in my teens) now turned confident person (late twenties), I simply didn't understand why confidence is looked upon so favorably.

I've experienced both ends of the spectrum and I don't truly believe that one's apparent confidence is an accurate indicator of their ability. For example, when I had a relationship with my first girlfriend (at 19), my self-confidence increased an order of magnitude practically overnight. Was I really a better, more able person simply because I had a girlfriend? Of course not.

I believe that each of us has a significant amount of human potential. I suppose the reason I don't value confidence as highly as most others is because I believe a few kind, supportive words to the right person at the right time in their lives can prompt an insecure person to tap into their potential and become a confident person almost instantly. Moreover, at least in my experience, I have seen that many outwardly confident people are often trying to cover up some character flaw, which also sours my perception of confidence as an indicator of ability. Apparently, the world does not share my opinion. Hey, when in Rome...

Tom

[ethereal]

I think there are two kinds of attraction: 1) animal-based lust/drive for reproduction and 2) more evolved masculine/feminine sexual polarity attraction.

For 1), we are acting more from primordial animal instincts, and thus waist-hip ratio, large breasts, beautiful face for women and dominance/confidence for men. Also, it seems like 1) is more easily manipulated by the media to "program" us into believing what is attractive and what isn't.

However, I think there is a next stage, i.e. 2), for this attraction, and it's what David Deida goes into in his books, "The Way of the Superior Man" (for men) and "Dear Lover" (for women), where there are masculine and feminine sexual polarities that are attracted to each other by essence. In this stage, men are attracted to feminine radiance, whereas females are attracted to masculine presence.

Anyway, to answer your original question, I think confidence is a good general indicator that reflects masculine essence, and that is what is attractive, not confidence itself. Confident men who aren't masculine, I don't think there is any sexual attraction because there is no more sexual polarity involved, it's too balanced.

[Dimitry]

Originally Posted by tc33

I believe that each of us has a significant amount of human potential. I suppose the reason I don't value confidence as highly as most others is because I believe a few kind, supportive words to the right person at the right time in their lives can prompt an insecure person to tap into their potential and become a confident person almost instantly. Moreover, at least in my experience, I have seen that many outwardly confident people are often trying to cover up some character flaw, which also sours my perception of confidence as an indicator of ability. Apparently, the world does not share my opinion. Hey, when in Rome...

Tom

You know, for the most part I've been sharing the same thoughts as you outlined here. Where I think the distinction is, is that there are 2 extremes and a middle to this.

Overall, real confidence is that middle part, with all the other character traights described above along with it.

The extreme to the left is people with no outward/extravert confidence being projected but still with most/all the other qualities described above. So they might be a great spouse, aim to do well in life, care for others etc etc.

The extreme to the right are people who project that outward/extravert confidence but do not have a lot of those other characteristics. So they are basically faking most, if not all, of it.

I guess there's one more extreme somewhere, and it's when you don't have the outward/extravert personality and you don't have any of those character traits (yet at least).

I think the reason that having that the middle is more favourable is because if you can tell that the confidence/extravert personality is genuine, you can better predict what other character traits the person will have. How good you can do this probably depends on how well you can "read people". The next question then is, what is the approximate percentage spread across those possibilites.

[Erock]

Good question tc33, but you might be confusing two types of attraction. You got sexual attraction, and long term mate/marriage potential attraction. Short term attraction is looks, but much more importantly confidence. Why is confidence more important? My hypothesis is that, no matter how attractice a guy is, if he can't last that long in the bedroom or is insecure, he is not a great lover. Confidence is an indicator of reproductive abilities (possibly even penis size), so looks do count, just not quite as much.

Long term attraction is what you were sayinh tc33-education, sense of humor, exc. I think women feel that is easier to turn a confident (good sex) guy into an overall great guy, then it is to turn a super insecure guy into a great lover.

Just a hypothesis, so take it or leave it. I also have the intution that women are attracted (in the long term) to guys at high levels of consciousness, but I'm still ironing out the details on that one.

Good luck, and be confident!
Erock

[tc33]

Ethereal - timely post. I just started reading Deida's 'way of the superior man' a few days ago. I like what you/Deida said about polarity/presence and I'll keep that in mind as I progress through the book.

Dimitry - I agree that there is probably a variety of combinations of confidence and other character traits. It is certainly possible for an introvert to be as confident as an extrovert. I think it is unfortunate that introverts are more likely to get passed by when it comes to attracting a mate, regardless of their actual level of confidence.

Erock - are you saying that confidence isn't a factor for women when looking for a 'long term mate/marriage' relationship, or are you saying that it is just less of a factor? Additionally, I would agree that one would be attracted to another at a higher level of consciousness, as conscious individuals are more likely to know where they're going with their life, have confidence, have fewer character flaws, etc.

Good discussion, thanks all!

Tom

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by tc33

Hey PDers

Can someone please explain to me why females are attracted to confident men, and why they place such a high value on this attribute?

I don't understand the underlying logic here. For example, an educated/intelligent man is more able to provide resources. A man with a good sense of humor provides laughter/joy. A physically fit man provides vitality/eye candy. Along the same lines, what benefit does a woman receive from being with a confident man?

Thanks!

Tom

I don't know if you can say that its only a female thing--I know that personally I'm much more attracted to confident women. Both in a short term "physical attraction" sense and in a longer term relationship sense.

[elainevdw]

Originally Posted by tc33

Hey PDers

Can someone please explain to me why females are attracted to confident men, and why they place such a high value on this attribute?

I don't understand the underlying logic here. For example, an educated/intelligent man is more able to provide resources. A man with a good sense of humor provides laughter/joy. A physically fit man provides vitality/eye candy. Along the same lines, what benefit does a woman receive from being with a confident man?

Thanks!

Tom

This reminds me of the "insecure girlfriend" post.

How about the fact that confident people are just less of a bother than insecure ones?

Also, if you happen to be slightly needy (as many people these days are), a confident partner would certainly make you feel more secure.

[dingybobstuart]

Originally Posted by elainevdw

This reminds me of the "insecure girlfriend" post.

How about the fact that confident people are just less of a bother than insecure ones?

Also, if you happen to be slightly needy (as many people these days are), a confident partner would certainly make you feel more secure.

Makes sense

[Brad Isaac]

Originally Posted by tc33

Along the same lines, what benefit does a woman receive from being with a confident man?

An interesting question I may not be qualified to answer. But here's my take. Think of the opposite.

A man who says or otherwise carries himself like this:

"I can't do it. I just can't!"
"I wish I was better..I'm such a loser!"
"I'm so ugly, who would want me?"

Basically, confidence is not whiny. It's not annoying. People feel good to be around confident people. It's difficult to be around people who aren't confident or who put themselves down.

[jamasiel]

Originally Posted by Brad Isaac

Basically, confidence is not whiny. It's not annoying. People feel good to be around confident people. It's difficult to be around people who aren't confident or who put themselves down.

Yes! I agree. If someone tends to repeat these same negative things continually, eventually I tend to wear down and agree with their own low opinions of themselves. This differs from someone having a hard time with things - when it's a pattern they obviously aren't willing to give up to see change.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by tc33

Erock - are you saying that confidence isn't a factor for women when looking for a 'long term mate/marriage' relationship, or are you saying that it is just less of a factor? Additionally, I would agree that one would be attracted to another at a higher level of consciousness, as conscious individuals are more likely to know where they're going with their life, have confidence, have fewer character flaws, etc.

Good discussion, thanks all!

Tom

Yes I believe it is an important initial factor, because confidence on the outside translates into confidence in the bedroom, which is the number one important thing (especially for younger women). Women want to take a super confident guy (a jerk with good sex) and turn him into a long term relationship nice guy, while still maintaining that confidence.

Sex is the most important thing for both genders. Education, sense of humor, money, niceness, kindness, don't necessarily translate to good sex, but confidence is the best indicator women have to go off of. That's why it is the first thing they look for. It makes sense. Guys look for nice bodies, girls look for confidence. We're both after the same thing.

But most women are looking for a relationship. So they try to take their newly captured confident guy, and turn him into a more long term relationship nice guy, while still maintaining that confidence (good sex). "Players" capitalize on this by not only acting confident, but showing signs that they might be willing to turn into a nice long term relationship guy.

It's a tricky situation
Erock

[dingybobstuart]

Ok so given that confidence = good sex... would confidence = masculinity?
E.G, would a confident yet "feminine" sorta guy have the same success?
On the flip side, if a woman is confident, does this mean she's more masculine than feminine?

[rush23]

Well, I speak for myself when I say that I prefer my men secure within themselves. For me that is confidence and that is deeply attractive. I don't find someone that has an inflated ego attractive even if he does have the looks of a Greek god - likewise a wimpy spineless excuse for a man doesn't do it for me either.

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by dingybobstuart

Ok so given that confidence = good sex... would confidence = masculinity?
E.G, would a confident yet "feminine" sorta guy have the same success?
On the flip side, if a woman is confident, does this mean she's more masculine than feminine?

I don't know any "confident yet feminine" guys firsthand but I did see one playing at halftime of the Superbowl on Sunday. Things seemed to have worked out pretty well for him....

[Brien]

Originally Posted by da1prophet

I don't know if you can say that its only a female thing--I know that personally I'm much more attracted to confident women. Both in a short term "physical attraction" sense and in a longer term relationship sense.

Yeah I definately disagree that it's a "female thing". I am attracted to confident women and people in general. People with self-esteem issues are exhausting to be around.

And I dont just mean those whiny people who put themselves down. Lack of confidence or self-esteem can be expressed in a myriad of repulsive behaviors. Whiners are just as bad as those that overcompensate or are extremely defensive. Ugh. Ego stinks like a forgotten mousetrap.

[danas]

I think with a confident man, the LOA will work in positive ways.
If he believes in himself and knows what hes worth he'll attract good things to his life, so the female will want to ba part of that. Also a confident guy knows what hes worth, and he doesnt really care what you think. Thats sexy, it gives a feeling of freedom to whoever are around him.
Also "he knows where hes going- so lets follow him."
and men are just as attracted to confident women btw, maybe even more.