I asked my girlfriend what worst case scenario she can imagine where she would cheat

[Autumnasides]

Maybe I'm just a victim of my own curiosity. But then, the answer to this question really matters to me. I've been cheated on and lied to in enough relationships to make it a point to look into this part of someone's personality.

So I asked my girlfriend last night what worst case scenario she could imagine where she would cheat. She has said on occasion that she never would, and last night, if her answer to the question had been something like, "There is none. The only things that would make me "cheat" would make me break up with the person long before that ever happened", then I would have accepted that.

But that wasn't the answer.

She said, "I guess if I had a strong enough connection with someone, then it could happen."

That was last night when she said this, and my heart is still racing like someone's got a gun to my face.

Even though... this was sort of not new information. That scenario has sort of already played out in her life - she was engaged to someone, met someone she had a more powerful, fulfilling connection with, and left her fiance for him.

And from my own experience, it doesn't even take a more powerful connection to motivate someone to cheat. I was with a girl once who was head over heels for me. Told me she loved me. Cried her eyes out with emotion for me. And then another guy walked onto the scene. She told me, "I have a connection with him, but it's not what I have with you. I know if I put myself in a compromising situation with him, I'll make a bad decision, so I'm just not going to, because I want to be with you." Long story short... she put herself in a compromising situation anyway, and she became his girlfriend - despite telling him, quote, "I don't love you. I love him."

I've been through enough experiences where the connection someone felt for me and the electric emotions they felt didn't do anything to produce fidelity to be thrilled when someone has those kinds of feelings for me... but respect that someone can FEEL "love" and still fail to ACT in love.

So as the discussion went on and I asked my girlfriend why she wouldn't cheat on me, she said, "Because of the connection we have."

Well, that didn't do anything to quiet down the adrenaline that has started to surge through me.

"What would you do if you did meet someone you had an incredible connection with while we were together?" I asked.

"I'd make it very clear I had a boyfriend I loved very much and say sorry, can't happen," she answered.

"What effect is that going to have?"

"He'll be sad and embarrassed and go away."

"What about when he doesn't? What about when he keeps coming?"

"That wouldn't happen."

I know differently. Most chodes out there DO turn away at the slightest sign of rejection, but I spent a lot of time in the Seduction Community, so I know full well that saying "I've got a boyfriend" isn't going to stop someone who's just in it for the pickup.

In fact, as recently as the girl who loved me and left me for someone else, that's what happened. She told him, "No. I don't want to be with you. I want to be with him." She thought he would back down and go away. He didn't, and she gave in. Some friends have suggested I should have marched in and taken her back... but f***k that. I want a woman with integrity that I can trust to honor our relationship WITHOUT me playing watchdog.

So anyway - I'm worried.

I'm worried about... all kinds of things. That I'm in a relationship where one day she'll meet someone, connect with them, and cheat, and I'll have to look back and be like, "Well, she f**king told me it would happen, didn't she?"

I'm worried that it's NOTHING like that and I'm overreacting and overcompensating and judging her for 1. things from her past and 2. things other people entirely did to me in my past.

There are obviously a lot of details and thoughts being left out for the sake of brevity. Ask for whatever additional details you like. I'll be very grateful to anyone who can offer their perspective.

Much love,

Charles

[aggie]

there are a lot of angles on this...one is not asking questions you really don't want an honest answer to. or one where you know someone may lie....the old joke about a woman asking a man if something she is wearing makes her look fat.....

i know this is more serious...but a lot of the time in relationships, and i have been guilty of it....there is this overpowering curiosity or need to know everything about someone's past, about what they might do in certain situtations and it can cause more problems than it can ever solve.

i think a better way of handling the situation is just always making sure that the person you are involved with will be up front and honest with you if there are problems that develop...not hypothetical ones.

the other problem is punishing someone for what other people have done to you in relationships or mistrusting them or knee jerking in certain situations....this is something a lot of us do, and it is difficult, but can be overcome.

the other thing is you seem to have in the past known women who monkey branch...where they hang on to one relationship until something they think better comes along. highly unfair.

the other thing that you mentioned in a way, was how people can be involved and may always meet someone who fleetingly think oh, what if...but that is the end of it, because if you are committed to someone, i don't think you can so easily connect with another. the grass is usually never greener.
if you really think it is you should end one relationship and not let the cheating end it.

i am happily married and a man who does business where i work has started to flirt with me...i first i thought is was innocent and then when i realized he was serious i told him i was happily married and i could not pursue what he was proposing. it is flattering to get that kind of attention. but that is all it is.

[The Cloud]

If you want a girl with integrity, this is the price you're going to have to pay. She has the integrity to know that no vow is set in stone, and that she is going to have to be true to herself. At least you now know that you'll have this girl as long as she is yours to have, and not a second longer. It's better than living the lie of an empty promise, or worse living the lie of a promise kept at the expense of honesty.

[MidasGirl]

I agree with aggie: don't ask if you are not prepared for an honest answer.

That said, I can understand why you're upset. You wanted a certain answer and it's not what you got. The truth is, we all know that people could meet people they connect with (very strongly) at any time. And we also know it is something we can't control. But that is life. Give her the freedom to be with someone else if she so chose to. Something my guy has always said to me: If you meet someone you feel would be better for you, then it is best you be with that person. Of course I'm also clear that if I cheated on him, it would be the end of our relationship. Make it clear what the stakes are. And then, set yourself free. What you resist persists.

[cylon]

Asking that type of question just broadcasts your insecurity and makes it more likely that she will lose attraction and the exact thing you're worried about will come to pass. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would put across the attitude that you don't care because no guy could ever compete with you. But you have to practice that attitude for awhile to believe it because jealousy is a dangerous thing.

For myself I'm leaning more towards the idea of just seeing people, with no commitments of monogamy in the first place. It's not really natural to begin with, it's a concept that society created, nature didn't create it.

If two people really want to be together, they will be together all the time, period, they don't need titles and expectations and commitments. That way if they DO find themselves with someone else, it's allowed, and it doesn't have to ruin the relationship. Why throw away a strong connection with someone simply because of some arbitrary, ancient rule that says that out of the variety in the world, there is only ONE person out there for you?

Likewise I think one of the paradoxes of relationships is the more freedom you give to another, the more likely your relationship will actually be stronger (and 'faithful') because it's not coming from a place of NEED. Need pushes people apart. Freedom draws them together.

I do know that jealousy is pretty much the end of a relationship. You need to do damage control with this one and show that you can handle her being attracted to other men, or you are going to lose her. I would predict that now you've planted this seed in her mind, she's going to use it to test your inner strength. Don't be surprised to hear about some new 'friend' she met, or her telling you about guys who are hitting on her.

Good luck.

[Cochonette]

For myself I'm leaning more towards the idea of just seeing people, with no commitments of monogamy in the first place. It's not really natural to begin with, it's a concept that society created, nature didn't create it.

I like this idea.

[garentee]

My last long term girlfriend and I had an agreement which we talked about fairly early on that if we wanted to be with someone else that we would tell each other. I think that it is really also important to respect your partners(and everyones for that matter) path. This represents a great opportunity to heal the old wounds of having been cheated on so that it has no more power. I think full honesty and communication is how relationships should work. A few thoughts I have on the subject....

[drakecatz]

You've clearly been through the cheating ringer! Stop giving this so much energy. Many women do not cheat, and if we are in love we wouldn't even consider it!

Give her a chance to be into you knowing that she has your trust! You'll push her away with all these insecure questions. Focus on your love growing instead of your love dying. You'll both be happier and your love can grow!

[freddy]

There’s no horse that can’t be ridden, and no rider that can’t be thrown.
This is is an old saying I was told as a boy growing up. And it seems to be true.
I suggest you just realize people change. And given the right set of conditions you would cheat on your girlfriend too. I know everyone say's, Oh Not me. There just lying to themselves.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Autumnasides

So I asked my girlfriend last night what worst case scenario she could imagine where she would cheat.

Wtf kind of question is that for a guy to ask his girlfriend?

[Brutha]

So I asked my girlfriend last night what worst case scenario she could imagine where she would cheat. She has said on occasion that she never would, and last night, if her answer to the question had been something like, "There is none. The only things that would make me "cheat" would make me break up with the person long before that ever happened", then I would have accepted that.

But that wasn't the answer.

She said, "I guess if I had a strong enough connection with someone, then it could happen."

One answer is a lie and the other is the truth.
She choose to tell you the truth.
You taught her by your reaction that you don't like it when she tells you the truth about herself without thinking about your reaction beforehand.
Because you behave that way you get relationships in which your partner lies to you.

[Autumnasides]

Man, this is why I LOVE this forum. There are so many different perspectives represented, and all of them differ from mine in at least some subtle, significant way. Thank you everyone who has contributed their insight.

Aggie:

>>i know this is more serious...but a lot of the time in relationships, and i have been guilty of it....there is this overpowering curiosity or need to know everything about someone's past, about what they might do in certain situtations and it can cause more problems than it can ever solve.

>>i think a better way of handling the situation is just always making sure that the person you are involved with will be up front and honest with you if there are problems that develop...not hypothetical ones.

While I think it's true most people spend too much time concerned with "what if" versus "what is", I think it's also true that "the best indicator of future behavior is relevant past behavior". We're creatures of habit, n'est pas?

But I think you're largely right - there's a fine line between destructive curiosity and asking the questions you know matter to you. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, and sometimes it's just a game of see no evil hear no evil.

For now, I'm convinced exploring "hypothetical" situations together is an essential tool to getting to know one another and feeling out the potential for longevity together. Does landing on the same page on a bunch of hypotheticals EQUAL longevity? No way. But it's probably still useful info.

The Cloud:

>> If you want a girl with integrity, this is the price you're going to have to pay. She has the integrity to know that no vow is set in stone, and that she is going to have to be true to herself.

On the contrary, part of the reason for the dissonance is a detail I didn't mention - she's very, very interested in lifelong monogamy.

And I sort of disagree with you. While I think most people break most vows, I don't know that that means a promise is de facto futile. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some people make commitments and keep them. If that turns out to be entirely untrue and no one can ever be truly counted on, meh, I guess by the time I learn that I'll be bitter and empty enough to eat my sour grapes for breakfast, anywho.

Midasgirl:

>>Make it clear what the stakes are. And then, set yourself free. What you resist persists.

These words were f******g gold to me. They flipped a switch mentally and emotionally and reminded me to stop acting out of fear and do what I ask anyone in my life to do - just be real, and then let the chips fall where they may.

cylon:

>>Asking that type of question just broadcasts your insecurity and makes it more likely that she will lose attraction and the exact thing you're worried about will come to pass. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>I would put across the attitude that you don't care because no guy could ever compete with you. But you have to practice that attitude for awhile to believe it because jealousy is a dangerous thing.

Wow. This is textbook Community attitude. If you're not in with those guys, maybe you should be..

What I hear you saying - and I could be completely wrong about this - is that "if I ever express fear at an outcome or am bothered by any of her actions, she will no longer be attracted to me and will leave me". If that's what you're saying, then I have to echo the same sentiment you offered me.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong... I just think there's a huge, hulking difference between weakness and insecurity VERSUS trust and vulnerability. The former require you to be perfect all the time because if you make one slight slipup, you lose the girl. The latter comes around less often - because men and women of integrity aren't the majority in the world (yet) - but that's one more reason to be picky about your partner, isn't it?

>>For myself I'm leaning more towards the idea of just seeing people, with no commitments of monogamy in the first place. It's not really natural to begin with, it's a concept that society created, nature didn't create it.... Why throw away a strong connection with someone simply because of some arbitrary, ancient rule that says that out of the variety in the world, there is only ONE person out there for you?

Right on, bro. I mean, monogamy is, like all social constraints, probably arbitrary in the fullest sense of the word. Just like family, friendship, late fees, and single file lines. They've all still got their uses.

Besides, the idea that there's "only ONE person out there for you" isn't inherent to monogamy, and it certainly isn't part of my belief system. Before my current girlfriend, I practiced polyamory for a few years, so I'm the last person to suggest there's only one person in the history of existence who anyone belongs with - "one true love" and all that. But I do think some people seem more wired for monogamy than others, and regardless, some people choose the lifestyle and are very fulfilled by it.

That being said, it doesn't sound like you're condemning monogamy, anyway, so I'm probably preaching to the choir. I'm really glad to hear you're on a path that fulfills you in your romantic relationships. I did just what you're describing for a long while and it gave me some of the deeper connections of my life.

garentee:

>>My last long term girlfriend and I had an agreement which we talked about fairly early on that if we wanted to be with someone else that we would tell each other.

Wow. That kind of candid forethought and communication is inspiring.

Since it's sort of been asked "why would I ask my girlfriend this question in the first place", can I ask how the subject came up between you and your last long term girlfriend?

drakecatz:

>>Many women do not cheat, and if we are in love we wouldn't even consider it!

I couldn't agree more. I mean, by all previous accounts, my girlfriend had described herself in just those terms. This is why, even without the fear that her answer prompted, it at least deserved a little shock from me.

>>Give her a chance to be into you knowing that she has your trust! You'll push her away with all these insecure questions. Focus on your love growing instead of your love dying.

You just became my new Paulo Coehlo. I'm seriously adding this to my Facebook quotes..

freddy:

>>I suggest you just realize people change. And given the right set of conditions you would cheat on your girlfriend too.

Right on. I mean - on the contrary, I'm exquisitely aware that given the right set of conditions, anyone is capable of infidelity. It's exactly that kind of self-awareness that I think is necessary for something like monogamy to ever get a fighting chance. You need to have some idea what circumstances would meddle with your mind, your emotions, your ability to keep your commitment, and then consciously create circumstances that intensify your love for your partner and consciously avoid circumstances that would interfere with or destroy your love. Obviously, you can't micromanage every gorram detail, and there is probably a line where so much effort is required just to manage the relationship that it probably needs to be asked if it's healthy to be in it anymore - but you get my drift.

curtis2011:

>>Wtf kind of question is that for a guy to ask his girlfriend?

I'm not sure I understand the question. It seems like you're saying it's a bad idea to ask difficult questions and face difficult answers in a relationship - but I don't think that's what you mean. Can you clarify?

Brutha:

>>You taught her by your reaction that you don't like it when she tells you the truth about herself without thinking about your reaction beforehand.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. I hear you suggesting that unless I'm completely pleased with however she answered the question, then I'm teaching her not to tell me the truth. If that's what you mean, I'm not sure I agree. There's probably not a contradiction between being grateful for her honesty and recognizing that the new information should give me cause for concern. Can you clarify for me a little more what you're trying to say?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Autumnasides

Wow. This is textbook Community attitude. If you're not in with those guys, maybe you should be..

You understand the fundamentals of attraction between men and women right? You have a lot of disdain for the "community"... but it seems like you haven't learned some of the major lessons:

Don't act like an insecure beta in front of a girl who probably has her pick of men.

There is never any instance where you can show that you fear losing your girl to another guy. Just put a big sign on the top of your head that says "I'm afraid I'm not good enough. Please start testing me to see what I'm made of."

Originally Posted by Autumnasides

What I hear you saying - and I could be completely wrong about this - is that "if I ever express fear at an outcome or am bothered by any of her actions, she will no longer be attracted to me and will leave me". If

This wasn't you showing a little vulnerability, or displaying you aren't perfect. This was you FORCING her to have a conversation about HER CHEATING ON YOU.... and you started panicking and making it even WORSE by asking all these desperate follow up questions. You lowered your value in a major, major way in her eyes. You're saying "yeah but this is just about integrity" but you were FREAKING OUT..... what it is about is your inability to maintain your frame.

If she starts dropping hints of some new guy she met (to gauge your reaction--she might even make him up), you can't say I didn't warn you. You can be indignant about my post, but that doesn't help you see the likely outcome of your actions. Which is what I was discussing.

Sorry you were so offended by my post. I wasn't attacking your lifestyle of monagamy. I was pointing out that jealousy kills relationships. If you can get over your jealousy, then.... well you can't though. Your heart is racing.

You want to not have this stuff bother you? Work on your jealousy. To do that, take away your insecurity. My suggestion of open relationships was simply to enforce that you don't get jealous, since after all your experience you're still making rookie mistakes.

That's your problem. Jealousy=insecurity. That is not attractive or sexy to women and you are most definitely in damage control mode now. I'm sorry I didn't sugar-coat it for you. I thought you were asking for what we thought about your situation.

Maybe re-read it later when you're not so emotional and you'll see I gave you some good, practical honest, well-intentioned advice.

[Brutha]

I don't think I understand what you're saying. I hear you suggesting that unless I'm completely pleased with however she answered the question, then I'm teaching her not to tell me the truth. If that's what you mean, I'm not sure I agree. There's probably not a contradiction between being grateful for her honesty and recognizing that the new information should give me cause for concern. Can you clarify for me a little more what you're trying to say?

You went emotional and judged her for her answer and forced her to defend herself.

It's not about being pleased with an answer but about treating her negatively.

For now, I'm convinced exploring "hypothetical" situations together is an essential tool to getting to know one another and feeling out the potential for longevity together.

Hypothetical situations don't give you information about how the person will actually react when that situation comes along.
Additionally the process of getting to know another through hypotheticals only works when you don't judge another for the answers.

[Angela]

Autumnasides, I think you are carrying around some old gunk -- some old negative emotion and limiting decisions around romantic love that render you a bottomless pit -- basically, unreassurable. Consciously, you believe that if only she says the right thing, you'll feel safe, but there's some unconscious belief in there that, even if she does say the right thing, the limiting belief will rear up again soon and you'll need more convincing that she can be trusted.

In other words, it has nothing to do with her. It's all you. No one can convince you that your limiting belief, whatever it is, is not true, and a woman could exhaust herself trying. But the good news is that you have the capacity to disconnect that old limiting belief and the negative emotions that go with it.

I wish I had the power to *poof* magically disconnect it for you, and convince you that you that the old gunky belief is not true -- you are whole, complete, lovable, worthy, beautiful, and infinitely powerful! But not really, I don't wish it, because the experience of disconnecting it for yourself is so incredibly moving, it's such an astonishingly gorgeous and fulfilling growth blast, that I wouldn't want to rob you of that.

If you'd like my help, I would love to be your guide. Otherwise, many people here have lots of modalities for disconnecting and releasing the old gunk -- I'll bet you'll find one that really resonates with you.

Won't it be wonderful when you are feeling so totally loved and loving, trusted and trusting, and creating the romantic relationship of your dreams? I can't wait to hear about your adventures in doing just that, and I'm totally confident that you will. It makes me feel a little shmoopy to think about.

[aggie]

don't be jealouos, don't ask questions, don't show fear, don't force her to defend herself.

initially it may not have been the best approach, but it is human sometimes when you care about someone or have been hurt before to feel vulnerable or insecure. if this is where that someone is emotionally in a relationship and if it is a problem for one or both of the individuals it needs to be worked thru.

it isn't even about open relationships or monogomy.

it is about where those two people are at this moment and what each of them want from each other. it is a time to learn. if it is not working than perhaps questions like this may be a catalyst to shedding light on that.

one thing i do know from experience when i was in a relationship and feeling vulnerable is either way you can't force a relationship. if this is something that can be confronted and talked out or if it means two people should go their separate ways, it should hopefully be used for forward movement.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by aggie

it isn't even about open relationships or monogomy.

No it isn't, (to me) it's about "what's the best arrangement that will allow two people to be who they really are, and want to be around each other".

In my experience, the best way to destroy that feeling that you want to be with each other it to claim ownership of the other person. What was once light and fun now becomes an issue of possession and jealousy. And I know because I was quite jealous myself. It takes effort to put that behind you, and it's not always easy. But it seems to me wanting to possess another is pretty much the beginning of the end.

[Autumnasides]

Just want to start by saying that everyone's insight has been not only incredibly appreciated, but incredibly helpful. Whether I agreed with you or not so far, you've helped shake me to my senses and stop acting like a crazy person with my girlfriend. We're cool now.

That being said, I am LOVING this discussion, so any more insight anyone has to offer would be awesome.

cylon:

>>You understand the fundamentals of attraction between men and women right? You have a lot of disdain for the "community"... but it seems like you haven't learned some of the major lessons... That's your problem. Jealousy=insecurity. That is not attractive or sexy to women and you are most definitely in damage control mode now. I'm sorry I didn't sugar-coat it for you. I thought you were asking for what we thought about your situation.

>>Maybe re-read it later when you're not so emotional and you'll see I gave you some good, practical honest, well-intentioned advice.

Dude. Chill out. I send much love to the community, even the members and schools of it that I disagree with.

Maybe the disdain your sensing is a simple shortcoming of text failing to carry the nuances of nonverbals. There's no disdain on my part. I mean, all I'm doing is disagreeing on some points and asking for clarification on others. You, on the other hand, seem to be getting pretty emotional and defensive at me...

Is it possible some of the disdain your sensing is actually disdain on your part for the life you led before the community, and how you may be seeing some shades of in my own behavior? Because believe me, bro, I act just that way sometimes when I'm around someone who I KNOW is acting beta/chode/AFC/etc.

Maybe so, maybe not. Whichever - be cool. I didn't say this before, so I'll say it now - I appreciate your perspective, and I agree with most of what you're saying in general, even if I disagree with some of it in particular.

Brutha:

>It's not about being pleased with an answer but about treating her negatively.

Makes sense. Can you help me put it in practical terms? What's a positive way to respond in this situation?

>Hypothetical situations don't give you information about how the person will actually react when that situation comes along.

Right on. I'm starting to understand what you're saying. I can't argue with the reality that despite what we might imagine ourselves doing in any given situation, you never really know until you're there. Nevertheless, I'm still convinced conversations about intentions and expectations aren't completely worthless. That is, after all, the point of conversations like, "Do you plan on having kids?"

>>Additionally the process of getting to know another through hypotheticals only works when you don't judge another for the answers.

One of the defining questions for me lately has been discovering the difference between judging someone for their behavior and expressing a personal boundary. In my experience, the two can often look very similar, and even when there's no judgment coming from the person who's communicating that a boundary has been crossed, any kind of "disagreement" can still prompt the other person to take it as judgment and get defensive.

It sounds like you've thought about something similar to this, and probably have some valuable experience to share about it. Care to offer it?

Angela:

>>Autumnasides, I think you are carrying around some old gunk -- some old negative emotion and limiting decisions around romantic love that render you a bottomless pit -- basically, unreassurable. Consciously, you believe that if only she says the right thing, you'll feel safe, but there's some unconscious belief in there that, even if she does say the right thing, the limiting belief will rear up again soon and you'll need more convincing that she can be trusted.

If you don't stop speaking such profound truth in absolutely compassion... I'm going to put your face on a tshirt and start calling you Ghandi. Thanks for offering this. It's all beautifully true in a way that resonates at the deepest level.

aggie:

>> it isn't even about open relationships or monogomy.

>>it is about where those two people are at this moment and what each of them want from each other.

Absolutely. Will you take this a step further? What do you do when there is fundamental dissonance in two mutually exclusive qualities about where that person is at and what they want from their partner? e.g., when someone says they want at their core to be a vegan, but they're also on their way to McDonald's to eat a McGriddle - or when someone says they want a lifelong commitment of monogamy with someone, but also say if they found a connection with someone outside of their monogamous partner, they would explore it?

BTW - I say this knowing full well there are plenty of contradictions within my own beliefs and behaviors. Steve wrote once (paraphrasing) that most of our personal development comes from eliminating the inconsistencies from our thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors. I think that's hardcore truth.

cylon:

>>In my experience, the best way to destroy that feeling that you want to be with each other it to claim ownership of the other person.

I couldn't agree more. There's a metaphor from the Game that goes something like - "Love is like a butterfly. If you let it fly free, it flourishes. If you try to hold onto it tightly, you crush it, and then your beautiful butterfly is dead."

[ar81]

I would not be too worried.

If she loves you, she will stay.
If not, she will leave.
If she leaves, it will save you from more trouble later.
It may hurt a lot in the first months, but you will survive like I did in the past.

In the past, many years ago, my fiancee who I loved like the woman of my dreams, was unfaithful.
I spent months in severe depression, until I understood she had a problem of ethics.
Years later I got to truly forgive her, and I invited her to go out and talk.
She acknowledged it was a mistake in those young days of emotional inexperience and we became friends, even if our lives took different paths.
Nowadays I wish her the best, I want he to be fine, wherever she is.

Also, thoughts do not always reflect what emotions would do.
One thing is what she says and another thing is what emotions tell her to do.
I have met people with a big mouth, like your girlfriend.
But indeed I fear most those who do not speak their minds and act, than those with a big mouth.
Her big mouth was quite sincere.
But there are many times when you think you would react in a certain way, and there is a time when you are faced with your emotions and react in a different way than you had thought.

[garentee]

garentee:

>>My last long term girlfriend and I had an agreement which we talked about fairly early on that if we wanted to be with someone else that we would tell each other.

Wow. That kind of candid forethought and communication is inspiring.

Since it's sort of been asked "why would I ask my girlfriend this question in the first place", can I ask how the subject came up between you and your last long term girlfriend?

Not exactly sure how the subject came up, however the reason that was so important was that neither one of us was willing to put up with Bull ♥♥♥♥♥ like that....She really did not suffer fools too gracefully and certainly the hurt that would have ensued from that would be pretty heavy. I can say that I did have a thing for someone during the time we were together and it really almost made me invoke that clause.... I now know that that clause is important enough to call a deal breaker if a woman who I am with cannot agree to it once we get into and exclusive arrangement..

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by Autumnasides

On the contrary, part of the reason for the dissonance is a detail I didn't mention - she's very, very interested in lifelong monogamy.

And I sort of disagree with you. While I think most people break most vows, I don't know that that means a promise is de facto futile. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some people make commitments and keep them. If that turns out to be entirely untrue and no one can ever be truly counted on, meh, I guess by the time I learn that I'll be bitter and empty enough to eat my sour grapes for breakfast, anywho.

I just think that promise making and promise keeping are entirely separate activities. Your girlfriend could stay completely monogamous to you without a single promise, or she could give you a vow a day and break them all. It's her actions that are important, not her promises; that's why you'd rather she be monogamous without guarantee than that she give such a guarantee only to betray it. A need for vows is a sign of fear and mistrust on your part. If you really want to be happy with this girl you're going to have to be able to live with the possibility of her leaving you, because it will always be a possibility, vow or no. Pretending that's not true plants a bitter garden of sour grapes that you'll eventually have to eat.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Autumnasides

Dude. Chill out. I send much love to the community, even the members and schools of it that I disagree with.

No problem. I'm not here representing "the community" though. I'm here representing the "human nature" community. Pickup has nothing to do with it.

Is it possible some of the disdain your sensing is actually disdain on your part for the life you led before the community, and how you may be seeing some shades of in my own behavior? Because believe me, bro, I act just that way sometimes when I'm around someone who I KNOW is acting beta/chode/AFC/etc./

Dude... did you move so far away from "the community" that you are now diametrically opposed to everything you learned from it? Some of it I'm sure is hogwash, but don't forget there are principles that stuff is based on. Insecurity and Jealousy and Neediness do not belong to any school. They are universal.

You seem to have it all figured it out. Respectfully.... if you had it all figured out why are you here posting about how you're freaking out over what your girlfriend said? If you thought you had it all under control, would this thread even exist? If you did the right thing... why the confusion? If you did the right thing... and you are so old school with the community... why are you in shock to what happened? Why did you not know this would happen? These are sincere questions.

I'm not here to shove advice down your throat. But in all your responses here (to everyone), I don't really see you acknowledging that you may have dropped the ball, or that somehow you screwed up.

You're making this about your girlfriend, her motives, her history. That's ego and that's going to blind you to what happens next. If you're so convinced you are right, how are you going to change? How are you going to prevent this happening again in the future?

At the very least, I would seriously reconsider ever showing jealousy or insecurity to a woman you are attracted to. You seem to be redefining what you did as just being curious about her character, and I can understand that, you'd rather it be your intelligent and wise motives that uncovered something suspicious about her, but the reality to me is that you got scared and you did something foolish. This conversation should never have happened.

If you can't acknowledge that, you're going to have more situations where you say something then suddenly "your heart is racing" in fear. If you got as much from "the community" as you say... you should have seen this coming from a mile away man. Lay off the buzz-words and focus on the truth that is behind all that stuff.

YOU caused this. Not her. You need to take responsibility for this one.

I couldn't agree more. There's a metaphor from the Game that goes something like - "Love is like a butterfly. If you let it fly free, it flourishes. If you try to hold onto it tightly, you crush it, and then your beautiful butterfly is dead."

Very true. Can you see how you bringing this question up with her was effectively crushing the butterfly?

Sincere best wishes.

[Brutha]

Makes sense. Can you help me put it in practical terms? What's a positive way to respond in this situation?

Your first response could be: Thank you for not telling me a white lie.

Additionally the problem doesn't lie primarily in words but in your emotions. If the emotion you would feel would be curiosity instead of fear that she will leave you things would be different.

If you don't stop speaking such profound truth in absolutely compassion... I'm going to put your face on a tshirt and start calling you Ghandi.

Well, Angela happens to be that way...

[aggie]

i have always been a person who wants brutal honesty...and you pay a price for that....the hard part is when someone gives you as honest an answer as they can at that given moment.

it is an area outside the comfort zone to be sure...

sometimes when asked a question people don't honestly know....and may not until given a particular circumstance. that can make you insane...but you have to tough it out. if you want a relationship to work...without forcing...but being tenacious and not giving up on it, you have to try to set the anxiety aside and wait it out. if the communication is truly there and even if you go back and forth on things and finally decide to let them be...if there is genuine caring and feeling...you have to trust the other to make the best choice for the both of you.

if there is a problem with that...all you can do is expect honesty so you can make your own decision on what your next step will be for you.

[James81]

Would it really be the end of the world if she found some other guy and went out with him? I mean, it's already happened to you a couple of times, and guess what? You're still here.

Learn to enjoy whatever time you have together and stop focusing on treating her like some sort of object that you own that you are afraid somebody is going to steal.

The interesting thing here is that you are creating your own self-fulfilling prophecy by being insecure about cheating. The more insecure you get about her, the less you trust her....the more you push her into the arms of someone else.

Release control of the outcome and just enjoy the experience while it lasts.

[aggie]

james81,

this is so true. for years i would sabotage relationships so that i would see the "self fullfilling prophecy" coming and not be blindsided by it.