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Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
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02-02-2007, 03:20 PM
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 dating a low self esteem girl Hey guys, I been reading a lot into self esteem, more for myself, you can never have enough! But I noticed a lot of things in my recent partner - a lot of crazy fights that were started for no reason. What would you guys recommend? If you really like some one but they have Low Self Esteem (LSE) would you still go for it? Is a relationship with a LSE person a good chance to develop yourself - like spirituality, unconditional love, controlling your temper, and so on? Or is it doomed to failure - and hence just avoid if you can? If you do stay, any tips? ---- From what I read about LSE, LSE people will unconsciously sabotage their relationships. They don't feel themselves worthy of someone who treats them right, so they will always do certain things to drive the other person away - they feel that they only deserve people who look down on them. If someone manages to convince a LSE partner that they have unconditional love, then the LSE person will start thinking he/she is better then the unconditionally loving partner, and dump the poor person! And continue in a search for someone who does look down on them! And also, their ego is totally afraid of annihilation - by being wrong for example. So they would rather destroy the relationship then admit that they are wrong, for their ego cannot take the "blow" of admitting they are wrong.      |
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02-02-2007, 03:56 PM
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__________________ A truly open mind will seriously consider all points of view, even those with which it strongly disagrees for there may be a grain of truth in even the most ridiculous of opinions. |
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02-03-2007, 06:12 PM
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| I would run, run, run! :P Just kidding  I hope your realize one important truth; you're never ever in a relationship to change someone. That road always ends up...sticky. But I'm curious though before I say anything else, how do you know she has LSE? Any examples?
__________________ Who else wants more strategies for an effective life? Visit Life Coaches Blog today. |
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02-04-2007, 09:15 AM
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| Hmm...I'm not in it to change her. But she put me through a lot of trouble, not sure they all stemmed from her low self esteem - all in the space of five weeks. Small Examples: This girl, me and friends agree is hot. But she would say stuff like "I'm Hideous!" - when she took her makeup off and so on. Big Examples: On my birthday, went out to a club with all my friends, and I went home drunk. She stayed behind and dirty danced and held hands with a few strangers. My friends told me. She said she was sorry and started crying, as I wanted to break up. But after a day or two when I wasn't talking about it, she started saying she did it to see how many drinks she could get men to buy her, etc, and she didn't do anything wrong. --- Hmm...picking fights out of the most stupid things. Happened every 2-3 days. Best example: Her ex came back and asked her for a coffee. She agreed and told me. I said "thanks for telling me. If i found out from someone else, I would be upset again." Especialyl since that birthday thing was a week ago. No sarcasm or anything, it was genuine and just a comment I made before talking about something else. She went off the hook for 5 hours, ruining the whole date. We were sitting in the car. She said that I was essentially saying I was her master, and I was implying she had to tell me everything about her life. The 5 hours went like this: "You're not my master!" "I never said I was your master, I never meant I was your master." "I dont have to tell you everything about my life!" "I never said you had to, I never meant you had to, all I meant was thank you." "but you're not my master!" "I never said I was your master..." repeat for 5 hours until she finally said OK, I accept your explanation. And we went home. Next day, she told all her friends, ooh he thinks he's my master etc. I dunno, all the arguments stemmed from something like this, she takes everything as an attack, even when it was never meant to be an attack, and I can't see how it would be taken as an attack. And a refusal to back down from her position of right, and to force an argument even when there's nothing to argue about. Not sure if it's LSE, but after reading some Eckhart Tolle, I realised it was definitely a massive ego - looking for something imaginary to defend or attack constantly. |
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02-04-2007, 10:20 AM
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Every relationship in your life is always a chance to develop yourself; that's pretty much a given. Opportunities abound. But not every opportunity is meant to be seized: a person must pick his battles and fight only the ones he has a chance to win.
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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02-04-2007, 10:38 AM
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| It sounds to me that she is struggling with herself. Her over defensiveness and promiscuous actions suggest she may be the victim of abuse. Hot girls are often the envy of every not so hot girl and the fantasy/desire of every young male. Many young hot girls struggle with the sexual attention their physicality attracts. A hot body doesn't always come with the maturity required to manage it. You need to ask yourself how much abuse from her you're willing to put up with 'to be seen' with or attempt to form a relationship with a girl, just because she's hot. Lallymac |
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02-04-2007, 01:25 PM
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| If you really like her like you say, I'd be honest with her and tell her the truth and if you want to stay with her, tell her you'll help her with her low self esteem problem. Also tell her she is bringing your vibration down and you don't like that feeling. A person with a high vibration can help uplift a person with a low vibration so maybe this will give your relationship a boost by working on each others vibration. If you want more information on raising your vibration, check out the law of vibration category on my site, the link is below. John
__________________ Universe Of Success - Personal Development Supersite |
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02-04-2007, 03:13 PM
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| well, since you have started this post by saying that you have been reading some self esteem articles [i]for yourself[i] rang a bell. Perhaps your worry over her poor self esteem is only a reflection of how you feel about your own self esteem. It is a very frusterating and tedious task to try and change a person. Giving her compliments and trying to make her feel special will not help her self esteem because they will probably not be sincere, if your goal is to make her feel better about herself. If you want to try and keep this relationship working, i suggest you work on improving your own self esteem and working on making yourself feel better about [i]yourself[i]. Keep up with your self esteem reading, turn the focus of improvement inwards. I think you might be suprised. As your self esteem begins to develop, I think you will notice that your girlfriend is less insecure about herself as well. Remember that everyone relationship you are in is a representation of your relationship with yourself. Change yourself in the way that you want, and you will find that the person that you want to change, may follow suit. |
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02-04-2007, 11:43 PM
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| Thanks again guys. Yes I do have self esteem problems when it comes to relationships, but I never wanted to change her. The first few weeks we were together showed that underneath all the drama was a very sweet girl, and that was what I liked about her, and the main reason I stayed throughout all the rubbish - by then the initial "woah she's hot" factor had died out already. |
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12-05-2007, 04:12 PM
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| What to do????? I have a question(or several dpending on how deep I feel I must get into this. I feel my Partner has low self-esteem mainly because of the following issues.I am going to use the term "she" here alot, it is not blaming,it just honest!! 1) she does not believe me when I tell her she is beautiful, smart, sexy, or that I love her. 2)She is always trying to control me and things that i do. 3) She can never make a decision 4) She CANNOT be spontaneous 5)She needs constant re-assurnace 6) She demands alot of my time(away from my son) 7)Past issues arise over and over again 8)She pouts often 9) Says nothing when something is bothering her 10)Uses sex, drugs, and alcohol to try and feel better for herself 11)She mumbles constintly 12)She stuffs her feelings 13)she punches herself 14)She doesnt trust 15) She overreacts alot Ok thats just some of the characteristics I have witnessed. Now more back ground. I have a high self-esteem and self worth. It has been very difficult for me to tolerate and understand why she possesses these traits. i am very frustrated and stressed out.i have headaches,had stomach cramping, feel sick often, I dont want to be around her, nor do I want to make love to her. I have asked her to go talk with someone, or we can both go, she puts me off saying she is doing just that, when I know she is just doing some reading(which is a start), but I dont feel its enough. How can I help her, I love her and want to have a bright ,happy future with this woman. I am losing her to herself. At this time we are living apart, I have used the "Tough Love" tactic, with hopes she will see the light and seek help. What more can I do?  |
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12-05-2007, 04:26 PM
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| Seek help for her. Find a psychiatrist and explain the situation to them.
__________________ "I read, I interpret, I think, I criticize, I oppose, I listen, I write, I question, I reply, I quote, I tell, I name, I discuss, I interpolate..., I learn, I teach, I live, therefore I am." -- Marc-Alain Ouaknin, "Mysteries of the Kabbalah", p383. Favorite Essays I Wrote: love, identity & growth, economics, education, equality, definitions. Recent Books I liked: Anansi Boys, Fly By Night, Hyperion. |
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12-05-2007, 08:22 PM
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| Thank you I wish it were that easy. I have offered to go for help with her. Right now, I am at a brick wall because she doesnt see the problem...denial. I have expressed that I "know what the problem is", and that i would support her if she would get help. I get" what problem, What do you mean?, ect..... She just doesnt realise the extent of her issues and how deep they lay. Today we talked, and I expressed how I feel, which is helpless, unhealthy, stressed, and worried. T |
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12-05-2007, 09:56 PM
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| To both The Flying Man and FIllness and fatigue: I've been in your shoes (nice ones, by the way, you have good taste in footwear) and actually had the misfortune of falling in love with someone with low self-esteem and - ach! - even married her  .Please take this in the spirit it's intended, to help you as you go through this: Get Out Now. Really. Unless you're a trained psychiatrist or psychologist, someone like that can suck the life right out of you (not in a good way). Whatever you do/don't do will never be good enough, s/he will constantly second-guess your intentions whenever you make any sort of compliment, s/he will be extraordinarily demanding, clingy and a downright paininthea$$. I know you're thinking, "But I can't do this to her. She's different. I can help." Yes you can, no she isn't, and no you can't. Learn from the mistakes of others. I wasted nearly a decade of my life on someone who's exactly like this, got nothing in return, and when it ended I lost over 2/3 of my assets. There is absolutely NO up-side to staying with someone like that. Trust me on this.
__________________ LTPP |
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12-05-2007, 10:44 PM
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| Thank you cdn2wheeler, by the way I do have good taste in shoes....lmao, how did you know? Also I spelt my name wrong .It should be Illness and Fatigue as in sick and tired...hehe. I have no idea how to change that, but oh well. Thank you very much for your input, it is greatly appreciated. I have had no idea what to do until lately. As for the clingy part, how do I move forward without hurting her, or her hurting herself? i fear that sometimes. |
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12-05-2007, 10:56 PM
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When I was a kid and my mum had to remove a bandage from me, she always ripped it off in one quick, follicle-shrieking motion. Did it hurt? Farking right it did... for a moment. Then I went back outside to play. But if I tried to remove the bandage slowly to minimize the flash of pain, it took more time, usually left a scarlet welt and didn't hurt any less than if it was done quickly. There is no easy way, no matter how it's done it's going to hurt. Best do it quickly, finally (follow the no contact rule) and allow both her and you to move on. What she does afterwards is entirely of her own volition. Sucks, yea, if she starts cutting herself, but what can you do about that? Get back with her? That won't solve anything; actually, it will probably make things worse because with her low self-esteem she'll be second-guessing you even more. All I can suggest is to give her the number of a crisis line or something, or possibly talk to someone in her family (if that's something that's do-able) and tell them your concerns.
__________________ LTPP |
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12-06-2007, 12:45 AM
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| Dude be careful of these co-dependent relationships. It's very easy to get sucked into the drama, and actually get off on the drama (even though consciously you would never CHOOSE that). Not to be harsh at all, but in tough times like these you have to ask "why did I get involved with a girl like this to begin with?" Do you feel you deserve to be with a girl who has her head together? I wish you the best of luck. |
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12-06-2007, 12:59 AM
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Imo, all that matters is whether you think you will be happy and/or content regardless of your mate's self-esteem issues. if she's going to bring you down then you (and she) need to find a way to counter or fix her issues, or it probably wont work. therapy might be an option. be wary of positive encouragement, its worth a shot, but sometimes it has negative effects. my girlfriend is very insecure. i'm pretty decent at giving advice, but of course of course it's the curse of the advisor that nobody listens. for her i encourage a hobby in the arts- who was it?.. i believe it was Epicurus who said "seek pleasures of the mind that are infinite" Epicurus was a philosopher who was around just after Aristotle. he encouraged people to take pleasure in life; to help become happy and fulfilled. well, i belive it anyway... it worked for me, writing and playing the guitar enlighten me like no other. the problem is trying to get someone else to do it, or come out with what they truly enjoy. many people can't look far enough into their soul to find what they really enjoy, though more commonly people just don't listen to what their soul tells them to do. |
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12-06-2007, 07:55 AM
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| To cnd2wheeler After a night out with a very good friend i was reminded. " I am not responsible for another mature ADULTS responses to life." Therefore in hearing that I remembered the tools I was taught......be honest,be strong ,be yourself, ...... Lastly again and for Flying Man, be honest , be strong, be YOURSELF!!! I feel so much better that she is not here.....I feel myself...lmao....I'm BACK!!!! Thank you to you all for your input, I am and will be still reading and learning. I wont abondon her, she deserves better. |
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12-06-2007, 05:02 PM
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| I agree with everyone who said get out. The low self-esteem traits you describe are extremely familiar to me. I dated a woman with these issues, and let me tell you; there is nothing you can do. I don't believe LSE is incurable, but she has to have her own epiphany. If you stay with her, it will only reinforce her self-destructive behavior. Quote:
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12-06-2007, 06:25 PM
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| Has anyone ever suceeded in this type of relationship? I am looking for some posatives now... If so what was the outcome? Are you happy now? How long did it take that particular person to realise they were hurting? Do you feel trusted and loved back?....ect...... |
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12-06-2007, 06:35 PM
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But isn't life too short? I mean, if girl A is clingy and suffering from low self-esteem, and girl B is confident, why burn daylight with girl A? Sorry to be blunt... but you've only got one life. Why put yourself through that? You'll get no medals for being a martyr.
__________________ LTPP |