dating a low self esteem girl

[TheFlyingMan]

Hey guys,

I been reading a lot into self esteem, more for myself, you can never have enough! But I noticed a lot of things in my recent partner - a lot of crazy fights that were started for no reason.

What would you guys recommend? If you really like some one but they have Low Self Esteem (LSE) would you still go for it? Is a relationship with a LSE person a good chance to develop yourself - like spirituality, unconditional love, controlling your temper, and so on? Or is it doomed to failure - and hence just avoid if you can?

If you do stay, any tips?

----
From what I read about LSE, LSE people will unconsciously sabotage their relationships. They don't feel themselves worthy of someone who treats them right, so they will always do certain things to drive the other person away - they feel that they only deserve people who look down on them. If someone manages to convince a LSE partner that they have unconditional love, then the LSE person will start thinking he/she is better then the unconditionally loving partner, and dump the poor person! And continue in a search for someone who does look down on them!

And also, their ego is totally afraid of annihilation - by being wrong for example. So they would rather destroy the relationship then admit that they are wrong, for their ego cannot take the "blow" of admitting they are wrong.

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMan

[snip]is it doomed to failure[/snip]

Yes, based on the information you give in the rest of your post. There was a similar thread here the other day. I'll give you the same advice I gave the other poster: you, as a suitor, are not equipped to deal with that type of problem. Gaining the respect you would need to effect that sort of a personality change is almost impossible. A romantic relationship would be in direct conflict with your intentions. A stronger bond, such as a deep religious commitment or a family bond, in addition to a personal desire for change, has to be there first before you can alter her outlook. I'd say it's time to move on and pray that she finds the personal desire and the right person to correct her issues.

[Alvin]

I would run, run, run!

:P

Just kidding

I hope your realize one important truth; you're never ever in a relationship to change someone. That road always ends up...sticky.

But I'm curious though before I say anything else, how do you know she has LSE? Any examples?

[TheFlyingMan]

Hmm...I'm not in it to change her. But she put me through a lot of trouble, not sure they all stemmed from her low self esteem - all in the space of five weeks.

Small Examples: This girl, me and friends agree is hot. But she would say stuff like "I'm Hideous!" - when she took her makeup off and so on.

Big Examples: On my birthday, went out to a club with all my friends, and I went home drunk. She stayed behind and dirty danced and held hands with a few strangers. My friends told me. She said she was sorry and started crying, as I wanted to break up. But after a day or two when I wasn't talking about it, she started saying she did it to see how many drinks she could get men to buy her, etc, and she didn't do anything wrong.

---
Hmm...picking fights out of the most stupid things. Happened every 2-3 days.

Best example: Her ex came back and asked her for a coffee. She agreed and told me. I said "thanks for telling me. If i found out from someone else, I would be upset again." Especialyl since that birthday thing was a week ago. No sarcasm or anything, it was genuine and just a comment I made before talking about something else.

She went off the hook for 5 hours, ruining the whole date. We were sitting in the car. She said that I was essentially saying I was her master, and I was implying she had to tell me everything about her life.

The 5 hours went like this:
"You're not my master!"
"I never said I was your master, I never meant I was your master."
"I dont have to tell you everything about my life!"
"I never said you had to, I never meant you had to, all I meant was thank you."
"but you're not my master!"
"I never said I was your master..."

repeat for 5 hours until she finally said OK, I accept your explanation. And we went home.

Next day, she told all her friends, ooh he thinks he's my master etc.

I dunno, all the arguments stemmed from something like this, she takes everything as an attack, even when it was never meant to be an attack, and I can't see how it would be taken as an attack. And a refusal to back down from her position of right, and to force an argument even when there's nothing to argue about. Not sure if it's LSE, but after reading some Eckhart Tolle, I realised it was definitely a massive ego - looking for something imaginary to defend or attack constantly.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMan

If you really like some one but they have Low Self Esteem (LSE) would you still go for it? Is a relationship with a LSE person a good chance to develop yourself - like spirituality, unconditional love, controlling your temper, and so on? Or is it doomed to failure - and hence just avoid if you can?

This is a question about you and your own self-esteem.

Every relationship in your life is always a chance to develop yourself; that's pretty much a given. Opportunities abound. But not every opportunity is meant to be seized: a person must pick his battles and fight only the ones he has a chance to win.

[Lallymac]

It sounds to me that she is struggling with herself. Her over defensiveness and promiscuous actions suggest she may be the victim of abuse. Hot girls are often the envy of every not so hot girl and the fantasy/desire of every young male. Many young hot girls struggle with the sexual attention their physicality attracts. A hot body doesn't always come with the maturity required to manage it. You need to ask yourself how much abuse from her you're willing to put up with 'to be seen' with or attempt to form a relationship with a girl, just because she's hot.
Lallymac

[John Hill]

If you really like her like you say, I'd be honest with her and tell her the truth and if you want to stay with her, tell her you'll help her with her low self esteem problem. Also tell her she is bringing your vibration down and you don't like that feeling. A person with a high vibration can help uplift a person with a low vibration so maybe this will give your relationship a boost by working on each others vibration.

If you want more information on raising your vibration, check out the law of vibration category on my site, the link is below.

John

[DQueens]

well, since you have started this post by saying that you have been reading some self esteem articles [I]for yourself[I] rang a bell. Perhaps your worry over her poor self esteem is only a reflection of how you feel about your own self esteem.

It is a very frusterating and tedious task to try and change a person. Giving her compliments and trying to make her feel special will not help her self esteem because they will probably not be sincere, if your goal is to make her feel better about herself. If you want to try and keep this relationship working, i suggest you work on improving your own self esteem and working on making yourself feel better about [I]yourself[I]. Keep up with your self esteem reading, turn the focus of improvement inwards. I think you might be suprised. As your self esteem begins to develop, I think you will notice that your girlfriend is less insecure about herself as well.

Remember that everyone relationship you are in is a representation of your relationship with yourself. Change yourself in the way that you want, and you will find that the person that you want to change, may follow suit.

[TheFlyingMan]

Thanks again guys. Yes I do have self esteem problems when it comes to relationships, but I never wanted to change her. The first few weeks we were together showed that underneath all the drama was a very sweet girl, and that was what I liked about her, and the main reason I stayed throughout all the rubbish - by then the initial "woah she's hot" factor had died out already.

[FIllness and fatigue]

I have a question(or several dpending on how deep I feel I must get into this.
I feel my Partner has low self-esteem mainly because of the following issues.I am going to use the term "she" here alot, it is not blaming,it just honest!!

1) she does not believe me when I tell her she is beautiful, smart, sexy, or that I love her.
2)She is always trying to control me and things that i do.
3) She can never make a decision
4) She CANNOT be spontaneous
5)She needs constant re-assurnace
6) She demands alot of my time(away from my son)
7)Past issues arise over and over again
8)She pouts often
9) Says nothing when something is bothering her
10)Uses sex, drugs, and alcohol to try and feel better for herself
11)She mumbles constintly
12)She stuffs her feelings
13)she punches herself
14)She doesnt trust
15) She overreacts alot

Ok thats just some of the characteristics I have witnessed. Now more back ground. I have a high self-esteem and self worth. It has been very difficult for me to tolerate and understand why she possesses these traits. i am very frustrated and stressed out.i have headaches,had stomach cramping, feel sick often, I dont want to be around her, nor do I want to make love to her. I have asked her to go talk with someone, or we can both go, she puts me off saying she is doing just that, when I know she is just doing some reading(which is a start), but I dont feel its enough.

How can I help her, I love her and want to have a bright ,happy future with this woman. I am losing her to herself.

At this time we are living apart, I have used the "Tough Love" tactic, with hopes she will see the light and seek help. What more can I do?

[Michael Chui]

Seek help for her. Find a psychiatrist and explain the situation to them.

[FIllness and fatigue]

I wish it were that easy. I have offered to go for help with her. Right now, I am at a brick wall because she doesnt see the problem...denial. I have expressed that I "know what the problem is", and that i would support her if she would get help. I get" what problem, What do you mean?, ect..... She just doesnt realise the extent of her issues and how deep they lay.

Today we talked, and I expressed how I feel, which is helpless, unhealthy, stressed, and worried.

T

[cdn2wheeler]

To both The Flying Man and FIllness and fatigue: I've been in your shoes (nice ones, by the way, you have good taste in footwear) and actually had the misfortune of falling in love with someone with low self-esteem and - ach! - even married her .

Please take this in the spirit it's intended, to help you as you go through this:

Get
Out
Now.

Really. Unless you're a trained psychiatrist or psychologist, someone like that can suck the life right out of you (not in a good way). Whatever you do/don't do will never be good enough, s/he will constantly second-guess your intentions whenever you make any sort of compliment, s/he will be extraordinarily demanding, clingy and a downright paininthea$$.

I know you're thinking, "But I can't do this to her. She's different. I can help."

Yes you can, no she isn't, and no you can't.

Learn from the mistakes of others. I wasted nearly a decade of my life on someone who's exactly like this, got nothing in return, and when it ended I lost over 2/3 of my assets.

There is absolutely NO up-side to staying with someone like that. Trust me on this.

[FIllness and fatigue]

Thank you cdn2wheeler, by the way I do have good taste in shoes....lmao, how did you know? Also I spelt my name wrong .It should be Illness and Fatigue as in sick and tired...hehe. I have no idea how to change that, but oh well.

Thank you very much for your input, it is greatly appreciated. I have had no idea what to do until lately. As for the clingy part, how do I move forward without hurting her, or her hurting herself? i fear that sometimes.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

how do I move forward without hurting her, or her hurting herself? i fear that sometimes.

No matter what you do or how you do it, she's going to feel hurt. That's normal and to be expected.

When I was a kid and my mum had to remove a bandage from me, she always ripped it off in one quick, follicle-shrieking motion.

Did it hurt? Farking right it did... for a moment. Then I went back outside to play.

But if I tried to remove the bandage slowly to minimize the flash of pain, it took more time, usually left a scarlet welt and didn't hurt any less than if it was done quickly.

There is no easy way, no matter how it's done it's going to hurt. Best do it quickly, finally (follow the no contact rule) and allow both her and you to move on.

What she does afterwards is entirely of her own volition. Sucks, yea, if she starts cutting herself, but what can you do about that? Get back with her? That won't solve anything; actually, it will probably make things worse because with her low self-esteem she'll be second-guessing you even more.

All I can suggest is to give her the number of a crisis line or something, or possibly talk to someone in her family (if that's something that's do-able) and tell them your concerns.

[cylon]

Dude be careful of these co-dependent relationships. It's very easy to get sucked into the drama, and actually get off on the drama (even though consciously you would never CHOOSE that). Not to be harsh at all, but in tough times like these you have to ask "why did I get involved with a girl like this to begin with?" Do you feel you deserve to be with a girl who has her head together? I wish you the best of luck.

[Ak47]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMan

Hey guys,

I been reading a lot into self esteem, more for myself, you can never have enough! But I noticed a lot of things in my recent partner - a lot of crazy fights that were started for no reason.

What would you guys recommend? If you really like some one but they have Low Self Esteem (LSE) would you still go for it? Is a relationship with a LSE person a good chance to develop yourself - like spirituality, unconditional love, controlling your temper, and so on? Or is it doomed to failure - and hence just avoid if you can?

If you do stay, any tips?

----
From what I read about LSE, LSE people will unconsciously sabotage their relationships. They don't feel themselves worthy of someone who treats them right, so they will always do certain things to drive the other person away - they feel that they only deserve people who look down on them. If someone manages to convince a LSE partner that they have unconditional love, then the LSE person will start thinking he/she is better then the unconditionally loving partner, and dump the poor person! And continue in a search for someone who does look down on them!

And also, their ego is totally afraid of annihilation - by being wrong for example. So they would rather destroy the relationship then admit that they are wrong, for their ego cannot take the "blow" of admitting they are wrong.

Imo, all that matters is whether you think you will be happy and/or content regardless of your mate's self-esteem issues. if she's going to bring you down then you (and she) need to find a way to counter or fix her issues, or it probably wont work. therapy might be an option. be wary of positive encouragement, its worth a shot, but sometimes it has negative effects.

my girlfriend is very insecure. i'm pretty decent at giving advice, but of course of course it's the curse of the advisor that nobody listens. for her i encourage a hobby in the arts- who was it?.. i believe it was Epicurus who said "seek pleasures of the mind that are infinite" Epicurus was a philosopher who was around just after Aristotle. he encouraged people to take pleasure in life; to help become happy and fulfilled.

well, i belive it anyway... it worked for me, writing and playing the guitar enlighten me like no other. the problem is trying to get someone else to do it, or come out with what they truly enjoy. many people can't look far enough into their soul to find what they really enjoy, though more commonly people just don't listen to what their soul tells them to do.

[FIllness and fatigue]

After a night out with a very good friend i was reminded. " I am not responsible for another mature ADULTS responses to life." Therefore in hearing that I remembered the tools I was taught......be honest,be strong ,be yourself, ......

Lastly again and for Flying Man, be honest , be strong, be YOURSELF!!!

I feel so much better that she is not here.....I feel myself...lmao....I'm BACK!!!!

Thank you to you all for your input, I am and will be still reading and learning.
I wont abondon her, she deserves better.

[CBo]

Avoid unhappy and unlucky people. They will suck you dry. Bottom line.

[DayInTheLife]

I agree with everyone who said get out.

The low self-esteem traits you describe are extremely familiar to me. I dated a woman with these issues, and let me tell you; there is nothing you can do. I don't believe LSE is incurable, but she has to have her own epiphany.

If you stay with her, it will only reinforce her self-destructive behavior.

If you do stay, any tips?

Prepare to be unhappy.

[FIllness and fatigue]

Has anyone ever suceeded in this type of relationship? I am looking for some posatives now...

If so what was the outcome? Are you happy now? How long did it take that particular person to realise they were hurting? Do you feel trusted and loved back?....ect......

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

Has anyone ever suceeded in this type of relationship? I am looking for some posatives now...

I, personally, have never seen it work. Doesn't mean that it can't, it just means that I haven't ever seen it.

But isn't life too short? I mean, if girl A is clingy and suffering from low self-esteem, and girl B is confident, why burn daylight with girl A? Sorry to be blunt... but you've only got one life. Why put yourself through that? You'll get no medals for being a martyr.

[Angela]

F&F, the way I see it, you have two problems here: you want to make it a good go with a woman who:

a) is being entirely run by her old pain
b) isn't willing to take responsibility for how that effects you.

Personally, I don't believe that a loving, long-term mutually beneficial relationship is possible when one or both partners refuses to take responsibility. That's just a bunch of old unconscious pain bumping up against other old unconscious pain.

But listen: You are also not taking responsibility. You are enabling her old pain by not standing up for your own well-being in the face of it. In effect, you are actually telling her that her old pain is more important than your well-being.

I recommend you immediately stop doing that! Make your well-being (and hers, if you like) your top priority. Be responsible for that well-being. That means determining your boundaries and sharing them with her. It means letting her know what YOU require in order to establish well-being in the relationship. You don't want to feel nauseated, stressed-out, and turned off in your love relationship, do you? No! You want to feel free, save, and joyful, right? Ask her that question -- does she want a relationship that's sickening, or envitalizing? Tell her what steps you are willing to take, and what would like HER to take in generating those qualities, and the consequences of her not doing so. Ask her for her ideas on what SHE thinks she could do to generate how you both want your relationship to go.

A LMBR is a partnership, and is generated together. Right now, you are both generating pain and stress and illness together. What would you both like to generate instead, that would inspire you both? Talk to her!

Lots of love,
Angela

[FIllness and fatigue]

[QUOTE=cdn2wheeler You'll get no medals for being a martyr.[/QUOTE]

Its not that I want a medal. I can see what a beautiful person she can be underneath all this. That is what confuses me, why cant she see that? This is a very sad "illness". How ever took away her confidence should be kicked in the a## and thrown into jail.

Still, I have made the decission to stay separated from her. I am sad about this, but I dont know what else to do. Life is too short and I am not the type to see it wasted. I have lots I need to do, and being with her will only distract me from my needs, I get it.

Its hard to believe that I was in such a situatiuon for so long and i had a hard time realising what the problem was. i couldnt understand why all the silly fights, and why i was so frustrated and felt pressured. I had blinders on thinking it was me, and that maybe I wasnt as prepared for a relationship as I thought i was. The last two years I was single and "not looking", just working on myself to be healthy for when the right person came along. I feel robbed, I now have to start all over and be single again for who knows how long to get MY head screwed straight again.

she just called and detedted a tone is my voice realising something is worng. i told her i was reading something. She wants me to send what i was reading because she need sto know what is upsetting me. Should I send this link with hopes she will be able to understand how I am feeling?

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

Still, I have made the decission to stay separated from her. I am sad about this, but I dont know what else to do. Life is too short and I am not the type to see it wasted. I have lots I need to do, and being with her will only distract me from my needs, I get it.

It's a loss, I understand that. I mean, I really understand that.

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

I feel robbed, I now have to start all over and be single again for who knows how long to get MY head screwed straight again.

Well, you're free to feel "robbed" if you wish. Not sure if that's particularly empowering though. If you can - undoubtedly you will in the fullness of time - consider it another learning experience. You're now better placed to see an issue like this in the future without it taking two years.

Besides, maybe now's the time to enjoy singlehood. Revel in it! Nobody to answer to, no teary phone calls in the middle of the night, no watching movies that you really didn't want to see because she wanted to see it, etc. etc. Go travelling. Have fun. Get laid. Hang with friends. Work out. Take up a new hobby or sport (bungee jumping is fun). Do the things that you couldn't/wouldn't do because she didn't want to do them.

And if you get your head screwed on right, you'll be the first. Every one of us, in one way or another, has dæmons sitting on their shoulder, twisting our heads into rather uncomfortable positions. I personally think mine has done a few complete 360s.

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

Should I send this link with hopes she will be able to understand how I am feeling?

Frankly, I don't think that would be a particularly good idea. Even though this is a public forum and pretty much anyone can sign up to read the posts and whatnot, I harken back to my analogy of ripping off the bandage in one sharp go. Further discussion, especially with her in her present state of mind, may only cause more problems.

That said, be clear with her. Don't leave her hanging. It's not, well, honourable.

Capisce?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

Who ever took away her confidence should be kicked in the a## and thrown into jail.

It's funny you should say that, F&F. Because you are sentencing the girl herself to jail! Whatever happened to her, however she was treated, she has always had the freedom about what she makes that mean, and the choices she makes in each moment. When she makes disempowering choices for herself and tells herself it's because of what happened to her in the past, she is herself responsible for the powerless life she's living. She is free to do that, of course; I wouldn't tell her she has to change. But living like that is a choice, and she is also free to make choices that work better in generating a life she loves.

And that brings us to YOU -- you also are responsible for making choices in your life that work to create a life you love. The choices you make now can be informed by what has happened in the past, but you don't have to be run by what happened in the past. You don't have to sentence yourself to the jail of living unconsciously, being run by your old pain.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Angela

Whatever happened to her, however she was treated, she has always had the freedom about what she makes that mean, and the choices she makes in each moment. When she makes disempowering choices for herself and tells herself it's because of what happened to her in the past, she is herself responsible for the powerless life she's living. She is free to do that, of course; I wouldn't tell her she has to change. But living like that is a choice, and she is also free to make choices that work better in generating a life she loves.

Angela is exactly right, of course. (She's pretty smart.) The problem, though, lies in the fact that this girl (not Angela... I mean F&F's now-ex) may not realize that she actually has that power. But that's a realization that must come from within herself; nobody can give her power that she already has, she has to discover it on her own.

Originally Posted by Angela

And that brings us to YOU -- you also are responsible for making choices in your life that work to create a life you love. The choices you make now can be informed by what has happened in the past, but you don't have to be run by what happened in the past.

Again, Ang has it spot-on. (See? I toldja she was pretty smart!)

[cylon]

Like attracts like. If you are with a girl like this you need to seriously get in touch with who you are as a MAN. You DESERVE healthy relationships. The fact that you aren't IN one, means YOU have issues. Forget about the chick, she can handle herself. Why are YOU doing this to YOURSELF.

I went through something very similar about a year ago--and we found each other because we were both messed up inside. And I went through the same "captain save a h--" mentality-- I was to be her knight in shining armor and fix all her problems for her. All that happened was--she had the same problems as before. I came to the point that I knew it was literally DESTROYING me, I was way in over my head. I broke it off and instantly became Hitler, with nothing but pure hatred and venom spewed at me--it was the worst experience of my life and I didn't think I was going to make it. And even while all this hatred was being sent towards me, I STILL wanted to come in and save the day and care for her and make all her little problems go away. I'm still getting over it.

The problem is they have such poor self image that anyone who cares for them must not be worth much either. They cannot value you because they do not value themselves. It is an addictive, co-dependent, destructive, extremely unhealthy relationship you are involved with and for the sake of your own sanity please move on and never look back or you may never be the same.

The funny thing is posts like these don't make much sense until after the fact, until you truly realize what a dead-end it is. Right now you're at the crossroads between looking after your own happiness and getting rid of your addiction to this girl's drama and are having fantasies probably of transforming her through your love and living happily ever after. It is not going to happen.

You posted the thread for a reason. Because you know there's something wrong with this situation and your inner gut/inner wisdom is trying to get you out of it. Trust it.

[DayInTheLife]

Well said, cylon

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by FIllness and fatigue

I am looking for some posatives now...

If you have to look for positives, then they're probably not worth the effort.