Social Courage Growth Exercises

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by 2ko

my goal isn't anything specific yet. right now it is just say yes to any social opportunity that people ask me or I ask myself.

If accepting social opportunities is challenging for you, then it's a good goal!

[Coffeesmurf]

Just a quick update:

• Hit the clubs with friends on Friday and try out cheesy pickup lines - with the specific goal of getting rejected (10)

Done - somewhat, anyways.. got rejected by one girl because her boyfriend showed up. Talked for some time with another girl, who seemed interested.. but she was extremely drunk, which wasn't exactly attractive.

Besides that, I felt more like just hanging out with my friends than getting rejected on purpose - anxiety popping up again - so that was pretty much it. But a fun night out, otherwise

• Set up a date with the girl I've started writing with on the dating site (7)

Done. I'm doing this one tomorrow afternoon:

• Go on a first date with the girl I've started writing with on the dating site (9)

To be honest, I'm excited as well as anxious about this one. I didn't really feel that nervous before most of the other dates I've been on - but this feels different. Partly because she seems very nice and partly because my mind keeps telling me it'll end with me getting rejected again (thanks mind!). But I realise that it's just a thought and that it doesn't have to end like that at all.

This time I'm going to take things slowly, show less interest and not contact her until at least a couple of days after the date if I would like to see her again.

Thursday I'm doing this one:

• Have dinner with a girl, I used to date (8)

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

[*] Hit the clubs with friends on Friday and try out cheesy pickup lines - with the specific goal of getting rejected (10)

What was the pick up line? lol

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

What was the pick up line? lol

Actually, it was more a curiosity line than a pickup line: "Hmm, did you draw that yourself?" (bemused look). She had a drawing of a naked woman on her arm made with a permanent marker. Then we talked for a couple of minutes until her boyfriend showed up and kissed her very demonstratively

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Actually, it was more a curiosity line than a pickup line: "Hmm, did you draw that yourself?" (bemused look). She had a drawing of a naked woman on her arm made with a permanent marker. Then we talked for a couple of minutes until her boyfriend showed up and kissed her very demonstratively

lol

[Coffeesmurf]

• Go on a first date with the girl I've started writing with on the dating site (9)

Done.

I was still more nervous than my usual first dates at first.. but it got better pretty quickly.

We went for a very cold, but cosy walk by the sea and back through a forest. After that we went to a café for coffee to get warm and drank a couple of cups while we talked about travels, movies and a lot of other things. We ended up spending close to 5 hours together. For some reason, I always end up spending a lot of time on first dates with girls, like six hours with my last girlfriend and five hours with the last girl, I dated.

One thing I clearly need to improve on is physical intimacy. We hugged at the start and end of the date and I stroked her shoulder just before jumping on my bike home. But for some reason it's just immensely anxiety provoking for me just to touch her arm while making a point in a conversation

I mean, I can kiss a girl and have sex with her without any anxiety whatsoever when I know she wants it. But touching a girl on the arm unless I'm sure not to get rejected is close to impossible for me. How f'ed up is that?

Anyways - at the end of the date, she asked me if I wanted to get together again another time.. and seeing as I felt a connection with her and she's very sweet (not to mention cute) - I said yes. So we're getting together on Saturday I'm very happy she took the initiative to ask, since I really don't feel like playing the "waiting game" with this girl.

Now I just need to figure out a second date activity for Saturday. So a new goal to the immediate list:

• Go to the movies with a girl, I used to date (6) (changed from dinner)
• Go on a second date with the girl, I'm dating (8)
• Attend poker night with a bunch of friends (1)

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

I mean, I can kiss a girl and have sex with her without any anxiety whatsoever when I know she wants it. But touching a girl on the arm unless I'm sure not to get rejected is close to impossible for me. How f'ed up is that?

Maybe it's just like jumping in the sea, it's kind of cold at first, and you get there gradually, but once you get your hips under the water, then it gets easier and easier to go further in the sea.. you know?

So getting to first base is really hard for you, but once you're there, the home-run is easy work for you..

OK,

My social growth exercises..

- Texted a friend to organise an upcoming gig, and stuff next Friday night (2)
- Asked my boss for a payrise (9) - The first time I've ever asked for a payrise! But ideally, in about 5 years time, I'll be in a position where I work for myself, and I don't need to be saying "Please sir, I want some more"

Other activities I need to do

- Organise a party at my house (8) Not sure whether to make it a Christmas time BBQ or party 3-4 weeks time.. I'm just scared that nobody will turn up But last time I hosted a Xmas BBQ I had 8 people turn up, and it went really well

[Coffeesmurf]

Maybe it's just like jumping in the sea, it's kind of cold at first, and you get there gradually, but once you get your hips under the water, then it gets easier and easier to go further in the sea.. you know?

I think it's a deep seated fear of rejection. If I try to initiate physical intimacy and she rejects it - then that's a rejection of me as a person and will ruin my chances with her. More on that later Now to the completed goals:

• Attend poker night with a bunch of friends (1)

Done. Easy-peasy

• Go to the movies with a girl, I used to date (6) (changed from dinner)

Had a very nice time She told me she's considering not dating for a while, since she feels it leads to a lot more bad experiences than good ones. Another friend of mine feels the same way - that it's easy to become cynical and just reject people from the start if they don't live up to the "gold standards" you've set up.. so she's put her online profile on standby. I can certainly see where they're coming from. There seems to be a lot of cynicism, games and rules associated with the whole process.

• Go on a second date with the girl, I'm dating (8)

Done - went on the date yesterday. We took a bike trip to the forest and went for a walk to the beach. Then we went back to the city, had dinner at a restaurant and a couple of beers at a pub.

I felt a real connection, so I decided to place my hand on her thigh during a conversation and we ended up holding hands. I tried kissing her as well, but got rejected. Normally, that would have been very hard for me to deal with, but she told me it just meant that she wasn't ready - not that it couldn't happen at a later point. She said she would feel most comfortable if we just relax and take things nice and slow. I actually feel the same way - but I was pretty determined not to end up in the "friend zone" and felt I had to make my intentions very clear - which I did

Actually, it taught me a valuable lesson. That is wasn't a rejection of me nor was it a sign that I haven't got any chances with her. We spent about 10 hours together and decided to get together again on Tuesday. I'll probably call and invite her over to make dinner together, since it's more private and intimate.

She gave me the whole "How many girlfriends have you had?", "How long have your relationships been?", "How long has it been since you last had a girlfriend?" routine. I really hate that part of dating, since I have almost no experience with relationships - and it's obvious that telling the truth (which I did) doesn't exactly improve my chances

Anyways - obviously, the most important goal now is:

• Go on a third date with the girl I'm dating (10)

[Brutha]

I really hate that part of dating, since I have almost no experience with relationships - and it's obvious that telling the truth (which I did) doesn't exactly improve my chances

You feeling bad about not having experience probably much more decreases your chances than the fact that you share with here the truth.
It's not the content that matters but the emotions.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You feeling bad about not having experience probably much more decreases your chances than the fact that you share with here the truth.
It's not the content that matters but the emotions.

I agree to a certain degree.

I told her I didn't have experience with a longer relationship due to circumstances and not finding the right girl, not because I had commitment issues or didn't want to be in a long term relationship - which I felt was her concern and her reason for asking me about it. She accepted the answer and said that not having found someone you wanted to be with long term was an honest thing, since it wasn't really something you could control. But that she did think having had a longer relationship gave you an invaluable experience.

I have heard numerous times from girls I know or have met that having had a long term relationship and having lived with a partner is very important factor to them - to the extent that they won't enter into a relationship with someone without that experience. I know not all girls are like that, but it is important for many.. maybe that's what makes it difficult for me.

I would like to be 100% honest and tell her the whole story - but if I had done so on our second date yesterday and said: "Look, I lived my life on autopilot after a very rough childhood with abuse, neglegt and alcoholism in most of my family. I was pretty overweight and extremely shy until I got cancer at 27 and changed my life around and haven't had a relationship at all until earlier this year" - then I doubt there would have been a third date.

The first couple of dates are supposed to be fun and the last thing I want is pity or to kill the attraction.. and I'm having a hard time seeing how I could deliver that story with postive emotion. I take responsibility for my life and the way it has turned out.. but I don't want to share my entire life story with her just yet

[Scott Lipton]

I've just started doing this too, with fantastic results.

ONE thing I'm doing different that I don't see anyone doing here is doing things on purpose that are socially WRONG or WEIRD.

All of y'alls tasks and goals involve "normal" and "socially correct" things. If you want to really get over social anxiety much faster, and realize that no one else's opinion of you has to affect you, you must get some experience doing socially INCORRECT things on purpose!

If you are afraid of a roller coaster, what's the best way to rid yourself of that fear? Ride a whole bunch of roller coasters! You can start small, but you have to face the thing you're afraid of.

What are we really afraid of if we have social anxiety? No so much the action of talking to strangers itself, but OTHER PEOPLE THINKING WE ARE WERID. Now, just talking to strangers or asking a girl on a date is actually a pretty normal thing for normal social people, maybe not for you personally in your current mindset, but if you talk to strangers well and ask a girl out in a cool fashion, most people will not actually think you're weird.

These NORMAL and PROPER social activities are actually much easier to do than things that GUARANTEE you weirdness and embarassment.

Example (one of my more advanced exercises) - Go to a grocery store, put your finger in your nose, keep it there, and walk around the store casually, staring at people constantly and attempt to start up five conversations. Bonus if you wear ratty clothes, look unshaven etc.

This is a situation where you are DEFINITELY going to look weird (don't try this at your usual grocery store, they might ban you if you get too out there), but guess what, if you can do THIS, then being normal and clean shaven and groomed and talking to a stranger is a PIECE OF CAKE. It's nothing, literally nothing, like breathing in and out.

When you try and strain to do "normal" things right all the time, you're trying to be correct too much, you're still trying ad afraid of failing. Be a crazy bastard for a month and you'll realize the world is no different from a video game. you can do whatever you want. Will write more later, gotta go.

[shasah]

Scott, I love the concept but not sure if I could go quite that far There are threads where it has been recommended that you go out and try to be rejected on purpose, but I haven't seen it in quite this "setting" yet.

All, Talking to people is a lot easier for me now than it has been in a long time. Don't have a problem with the short term anymore. Now I'm trying to work on the long term. How do you go from talking to people at the gym or grocery store to going out and doing things with them? Where I live, I have been able to make friends but can't figure out how to get to the next level at other places?? Any insights?

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by Scott Lipton

All of y'alls tasks and goals involve "normal" and "socially correct" things. If you want to really get over social anxiety much faster, and realize that no one else's opinion of you has to affect you, you must get some experience doing socially INCORRECT things on purpose!

Dr. Albert Ellis - the father of Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy - became famous for his "shame attacking exercises" that consisted of things exactly like these.

I think it all depends on your goal. Personally, I don't have a high level of social anxiety in most situations. I do in certain specific "normal" situations, however (like physical escalation when dating) and that's what I'm working to address, slowly - which works best for me.

Another way to address anxiety is "flooding", which is more in line with your approach. Basically, if you're terrified of spiders - lock yourself in a room with hundreds of them until your fear disappears..

[Aybee]

@ Scott,

I am not sure about something like your example for me either. It is so far from what I want to do with myself. I want to learn how to share my feelings with people, and be able to connect with people and their feelings comfortably. For me, walking around a grocery store, looking ratty and with my finger up my nose is not going to get me to that point. I am at the point where I don't care if people think I'm crazy, and want to reject me and don't want to talk with me, especially with people I'm never going to see again. I will very quickly say eff it, I don't care. If it's someone that I'm going to be in regular contact with, and want to develop some kind of relationship with, that is where I'm going to have problems. That's why I so much admire someone like Dukie / Daan and speedhugging.

[Coffeesmurf]

• Go on a third date with the girl I'm dating (10)
• Go on a fourth date with the girl I'm dating (9)

Both done. Tonight I'll be doing this one:

• Go to a restaurant and out for a couple of beer with a friend (4)

- and more importantly, this one tomorrow:

• Go on a fifth date with the girl I'm dating (9)

I'm starting to develop feelings for her and hope the date will go well. I visited her place yesterday for dinner and we ended up sitting very close, holding hands and cuddling. Before I left, we exchanged several very warm hugs. I woke up this morning to a text message from her, asking me if I had any plans for tomorrow afternoon

Things are developing at a very natural rate for both of us, I think. I'm very aware not to try and move things too fast - I don't want it to end up like last time, where the girl bailed out because she was uncomfortable with the pace. Hopefully, I can reach a point where I'm just happy to spend time with her and not worrying too much about the future.

This might all sound very basic, but dating at 32 with close to zero experience with girls has its challenges

[shasah]

Great day today!! Asked a guy I like if he would go hiking with me and he said yes. Met up with a guy that I knew in the past from the gym and exchanged phone numbers (friends only but that's one of the things I'm trying to develop) and had a friend text me asking me to go to a hockey game. Went to the game and then went to a bar and had a good time. I've seen 3 bands today (2 at the place where I exchanged numbers and 1 with the friend after the hockey game.) Looking forward to more days like today

[Coffeesmurf]

Good for you, shasah! Keep it up

I went on the fifth date yesterday. We went to the movies and walked around the city, holding hands. Ended up at her place where we had a long, honest and personal talk.

She told me why she had asked me the questions about past relationships - and asked me for more details. She had lived with someone who hadn't lived with a girl before and he freaked after eight weeks and suddenly broke it off and she had to leave pretty much overnight. She was a bit scared about the prospect of having that happen to her again. After that relationship, she found a guy with an alcoholic father, who hadn't processed it at all and had just bottled it up - that lead to a lot of problems.

Soooo.. I told her the truth. That I don't have a lot of experience with relationships because I used to be very shy and overweight, that it had changed when I got cancer some years ago and that I actually had an alcoholic father as well until he died about a month ago - but had processed it, unlike the last guy. Seeing as she was going to know all those things at some point if we're to have a serious relationship - I thought I might as well be brutally honest and tried my best to calmly explain that I'm not like the other guys, don't have any commitment issues and that I'm very ready for a real relationship.

I think it was the right thing to do and it felt good to get it off my chest. We kissed before I left and the last thing she said was: "I have a hard time letting you leave, now that I've finally gotten to kiss you".. so it can't be all bad

[shasah]

Coffeesmurf, You are soooo far ahead of me But at least I'm applying again. Went to the gym yesterday and introduced myself to 2 of the regulars and talked for quite a while with the guy I asked to go hiking. Hooked up via internet with one of the guys that used to make my life miserable in my past and he's actually quite nice now. Whoda thunk?

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by shasah

Coffeesmurf, You are soooo far ahead of me But at least I'm applying again. Went to the gym yesterday and introduced myself to 2 of the regulars and talked for quite a while with the guy I asked to go hiking. Hooked up via internet with one of the guys that used to make my life miserable in my past and he's actually quite nice now. Whoda thunk?

I don't think I'm any further than you - sounds to me like you're doing just fine!

[shasah]

You've succeeded where I have yet to go, so that's why I say you are so far ahead of me. It's like I wore a "married" sign for so long that I was having a problem shedding it. I feel like the caterpillar turning into a butterfly and I have to say I love the feeling. Here's to our succeeding and attaining what we want out of life or at least the moment

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by shasah

You've succeeded where I have yet to go, so that's why I say you are so far ahead of me. It's like I wore a "married" sign for so long that I was having a problem shedding it. I feel like the caterpillar turning into a butterfly and I have to say I love the feeling.

Well, my main goal is attaining a loving long term relationship, so I'm not quite there yet. I've succeeded in attaining a part goal, but I still don't know what the future will bring. I am hoping, however, that this is the girl and that things will work out for the best.

The whole process has made one thing very clear to me: It's all about perseverance. I've been on fifteen dates these past months and it's not until now that I really feel I've found someone where we both seem to want the same thing - and have a great deal of mutual attraction and chemistry. So keep trying and don't let setbacks get you down.

Here's to our succeeding and attaining what we want out of life or at least the moment

I'll drink to that!

[shasah]

Continued in the same fashion today. Went and had conversations with 2 guys that I've seen around but have been too shy to talk to, quite pleasant. Also ended up in a conversation with a girl that I kind of just fell into, but hey, that works too.

My newest epiphany is that just as you're only as old as you feel, you're only as sexy or interesting or popular, or whatever, as you feel. Can't believe it took me this long to figure it out. I can feel my life changing day by day and I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings!!

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by shasah

My newest epiphany is that just as you're only as old as you feel, you're only as sexy or interesting or popular, or whatever, as you feel. Can't believe it took me this long to figure it out. I can feel my life changing day by day and I can't wait to see what tomorrow brings!!

Yep, Sometimes we forget that we create the world around us through our mental states..

[Coffeesmurf]

Can't agree entirely - I've had friends bore me to tears, telling me with great enthusiasm the intricacies of computer algorithms. I'm sure they felt amazingly interesting while doing so

.. oh, and go shasah!

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Can't agree entirely - I've had friends bore me to tears, telling me with great enthusiasm the intricacies of computer algorithms. I'm sure they felt amazingly interesting while doing so

but they attract people who are into the intricacies of computer algorithms, while repel people like you, so they're creating their reality that way..

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

but they attract people who are into the intricacies of computer algorithms, while repel people like you, so they're creating their reality that way..

Well, I'm a systems developer, so I'm not entirely uninterested.. there's just a time and place for everything. If I recall correctly, the last time was at a party

[Coffeesmurf]

Not a whole lot of social goals completed lately. I've had my hand full with dating the girl mentioned in my earlier posts. Luckily, we're pretty close to being in a relationship at this point

I'm trying hard not to let what happened my with the last two girls affect me too much. I do worry somewhat about her doing a 180 degree turn like they did, but there's really no signs of that happening. She seems very ready for a long term relationship with me and often hints at a common future together - where she would like to go with me on Holiday etc.

Hopefully, I'll reach a point in the not too far future where I can just relax and enjoy being with her and the fact that we're in love.