Social Courage Growth Exercises

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Angela

I know it may seem very scary to consider Accepting bullying, because it sounds like Acceptance means condoning or rolling over on your back and urinating like a puppy -- but it doesn't. Actually it means quite the opposite. When you really accept people, granting them space and freedom (in your own head) to be exactly as they are and exactly as they are not, you suddenly have exponentially more flexibility in your response to someone who is behaving in a way that doesn't work well for you. You suddenly become the most influential person in the interaction. You are not limited to freezing, flying, or fighting -- you are not at the effect of a bullyer, but rather, now you have access to actually making a positive difference and feeling really good while you do it.

Sounds like great advice. Now that I think about it, there isn't anything anyone can say that I haven't heard before, and I'm pretty strong verbally, so if I get into an insult war, I'll win 99.9% of the time or easily shrug it aside..

I guess what I worry about the most is embarrassment. Past experiences where I'm ridiculed in front of groups of people, even though I know from experience, that the nastiest people, are also the most uninteresting, unattractive people.. I've always found most of the time that the rude people I've dealt with are only that way when other people are around to show off in front of.. So that's the stick.. avoid embarrassment..

and the carrot is I want to be able to trust people.. so relate and connect with people with compassion, rather than neediness and suspicion..

[Angela]

Originally Posted by brendannz

I guess what I worry about the most is embarrassment. Past experiences where I'm ridiculed in front of groups of people, even though I know from experience, that the nastiest people, are also the most uninteresting, unattractive people.. I've always found most of the time that the rude people I've dealt with are only that way when other people are around to show off in front of.. So that's the stick.. avoid embarrassment..

and the carrot is I want to be able to trust people.. so relate and connect with people with compassion, rather than neediness and suspicion..

Yeah, once you're out of grade school, it's not you who needs to be embarrassed by a person who is ridiculing and rude. You can just shut up, step back, and allow yourself to be calm and still as the person realizes that it's HIM everybody's horrified by. And when you've got such an inspiring towards-motivation as relating and connecting with people compassionately! You are a winner.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yeah, once you're out of grade school, it's not you who needs to be embarrassed by a person who is ridiculing and rude. You can just shut up, step back, and allow yourself to be calm and still as the person realizes that it's HIM everybody's horrified by. And when you've got such an inspiring towards-motivation as relating and connecting with people compassionately! You are a winner.

OK, more good advice.. Sometimes adult life is more immature than grade school life But really, I don't think the problem is that I'm finding too many ridiculers, even though I've found a few. I think the problem is that I dwell too much in my memories on the rude ridiculing people in the past..

(why did you assume it was a HIM we were horrified by? lol.. jk)

So think I just need to worry less about them, and more on the towards-motivation..

[Angela]

Originally Posted by brendannz

(why did you assume it was a HIM we were horrified by? lol.. jk)

So think I just need to worry less about them, and more on the towards-motivation..

Yeah, for awhile there I was writing "herm" and "(s)he" a lot, so highly defensive persons would stop asking me why I was picking on a whole gender when I arbitrarily used "him" or "her." Now I just pick one and figure I'm performing a community service for people who love to get offended.

I think especially in matters of engaging with people and having fun with them, towards-motivation really does work much better than focusing on getting away from the hurts we experienced when we were kids. The successful person focuses on what (s)he* wants.

*

[Coffeesmurf]

• Have dinner with a girl I used to date - as friends (6)

Done. Had a very nice evening with lots of good food.

• Have a third date with the girl I'm seeing (9)
• Touch a girl - innocently - while on a date (9)
• Kiss a girl while on a date (10)

Done, done and done.. as well as this unexpected one:

• Have sex with the girl I'm seeing

I wouldn't say the kissing part was so much my doing as it was hers, since she initiated it. Just goes to show I should have trusted my instincts about her attraction more and just kissed her earlier.. although I think being patient on the first couple of dates wasn't a bad idea

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

• Have sex with the girl I'm seeing

and your grading on this? or does it just get a smiley face?

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

and your grading on this? or does it just get a smiley face?

A smiley face is sufficient, I think

If it were to give it a fear rating, however, it would be a pretty low score. Like I mentioned earlier, my main problem is escalating relationships and rejection.. once I knew she was sexually attracted to me, the kissing and sex wasn't really fear provoking.

I would like this to develop into a long term relationship and my challenge for the time to come is trying to keep the pace down so I don't get totally caught up in the relationship like last time - try to keep my appointments with friends, go to the gym etc. Although I would like to see her again today despite a casual appointment with a friend later, I'm going to call her and suggest getting together tomorrow instead.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

I would like this to develop into a long term relationship and my challenge for the time to come is trying to keep the pace down so I don't get totally caught up in the relationship like last time

Long story short.. she called me today and told me that she thinks everything is moving too fast and that she needs time to think and feel where she's at. We agreed to take some time apart to think about everything and I told her not to feel any pressure from me and that I don't want to ruin anything by moving too fast - and is fine with taking it slow.

So I'm going to drop all contact with her and wait for her to get back in touch - if she does. I'm going to enjoy life as much as possible in the meantime.. and if nothing else, it has been a learning experience. The next time I date a girl, I'm going to take it nice and slow and use the golden dating rules: Don't call her until 3 days after the date, be generally unavailable and maybe see other girls at the same time. Also, I need to remember that just because I have sex with a girl I'm dating, it doesn't mean she's interested in me as a potential boyfriend

[shasah]

Coffeesmurf, I admire you for setting your goals and going after them. I know that some of this must have been very hard for you. I'm glad to see you are utilizing them as a learning experience and who knows, she may call you back

I took a side track and decided to concentrate on fixing some of my "issues" before continuing with this exercise. Have worked through a lot of things in a couple of weeks and came to a lot of realizations. First and foremost is that not everything is always as it seems. My perception of a situation can be skewed by my ego. I have faced a couple of situations that in the past would have crushed me, but now I realize that it's not always about me.

This has helped me see that I take things way too personally and helped me to loosen up a bit. I think this will help me to get back to the social aspect and I feel ready to make progress again.

Last week I went to a rugby game and had a blast. Today I talked to a guy at the gym for quite a while. Tomorrow, trading info with him on what we discussed today. Also tomorrow going to go to a State Park to help clean up for National Parks day. Haven't figured out after tomorrow, but I'll work on it.

[Coffeesmurf]

Thanks a lot, shasah! Most of the goals are pretty hard, but I really like living a life where I'm more in control than I used to be. I reacted pretty strongly to her "part rejection" at first yesterday. Fortunately I didn't take me long to realise that it doesn't have to be about me - like you said - and that I should lighten up and just take it easy. One of the hard parts for me is not being in control, but I realise trying to have control over something like this is very hard

As for working on your issues - good for you! Sounds like you're well on your way already with the social exercises

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by cylon

I can go out now, alone, even on busy weekend evenings, and enjoy myself, and I know I will meet someone and have a good time. But I sure didn't feel that way several months ago, that's for sure.

It's a shame that Cylon got himself banned because he had a lot of good things to say, but understandable that he did get banned, he was pretty rude once or twice.

But I agree with what he says.. What's weird is when you do go out alone, people are usually friendlier towards you than if you were with friends, I find.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Thanks a lot, shasah! Most of the goals are pretty hard, but I really like living a life where I'm more in control than I used to be. I reacted pretty strongly to her "part rejection" at first yesterday. Fortunately I didn't take me long to realise that it doesn't have to be about me - like you said - and that I should lighten up and just take it easy. One of the hard parts for me is not being in control, but I realise trying to have control over something like this is very hard

As for working on your issues - good for you! Sounds like you're well on your way already with the social exercises

Good work..

I've found this year with rejection that even when you do get rejected, often the people who reject you still like you, it just wasn't a perfect fit.

I've found in an area I have lots of confidence (with my art) that I take a rejection and might be slightly hurt, but am always strengthened by the rejection, because I see it as perfect feedback..

In social situations I guess I always feel I've got to protect my ego from being vulnerable, or hurt, so have to work on that one, I think..

[Angela]

Originally Posted by brendannz

It's a shame that Cylon got himself banned because he had a lot of good things to say, but understandable that he did get banned, he was pretty rude once or twice.

just for the record, cylon asked for and received a voluntary ban; he wasn't banned because of any rude things he said and he can come back whenever he chooses. (although I suspect the feelings he got from saying somewhat rude things were part of why he asked to be banned.)

[Coffeesmurf]

Just a short update. I received a text message from her a couple of hours ago:

"Hi. I'm sorry to say that I don't think we should see each other again. The dates have been great and I think you're really good company, but unfortunately I don't have any butterflies in my stomach. Good luck in you future search. Hugs"

So not exactly what I was hoping for But at least now I know she isn't interested.. although she could have called me instead of sending me a text message while I was at work.

A girl I wrote with earlier on a dating site wrote me last night to ask if I would like to write again. She wrote with someone else last time and didn't want to write with more than one man, since she thought it was unethical. She seems like a nice girl, so I'll write with her and see what happens.

This time I'm only going to write with - and hopefully date - her..

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Good work..

I've found this year with rejection that even when you do get rejected, often the people who reject you still like you, it just wasn't a perfect fit.

I've found in an area I have lots of confidence (with my art) that I take a rejection and might be slightly hurt, but am always strengthened by the rejection, because I see it as perfect feedback..

In social situations I guess I always feel I've got to protect my ego from being vulnerable, or hurt, so have to work on that one, I think..

Thanks! In a funny way, I'm sure getting rejected is good for me as well. Hopefully when I've been rejected by more girls it won't affect me as much. I'd be lying if I said my ego didn't take a hit from being rejected today. But I'm stronger than I was just a couple of months ago and I'll bounce back quickly. It has been a learning experience..

I'm certain she still likes me - but to be honest, I'm not really looking for more friends at the moment. Besides, almost everybody I meet like me - one of the only good side effects of being a "Nice guy", I suppose

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Just a short update. I received a text message from her a couple of hours ago:

"Hi. I'm sorry to say that I don't think we should see each other again. The dates have been great and I think you're really good company, but unfortunately I don't have any butterflies in my stomach. Good luck in you future search. Hugs"

So not exactly what I was hoping for But at least now I know she isn't interested.. although she could have called me instead of sending me a text message while I was at work.

A girl I wrote with earlier on a dating site wrote me last night to ask if I would like to write again. She wrote with someone else last time and didn't want to write with more than one man, since she thought it was unethical. She seems like a nice girl, so I'll write with her and see what happens.

This time I'm only going to write with - and hopefully date - her..

If she phoned you to reject you, she might not have articulated what she wanted to say as well and might have been worried about dealing with your questions, or so. So maybe it was a kind rejection. I've had an ignore-rejection by someone who initiated it all in the first place, but still I don't think worse of her for it, she probably just really wasn't as awesome as I thought she was...

Yeah, rejection's hard.. I find even if I text my mates, and nobody wants to watch the rugby, because they always have other plans that evening hard sometimes.. and dating rejection is 100 times the pain. But it's like Buddhism I think, it's all about attachment to the ego thats the problem..

I guess the reason I can take art rejection quite well is because 1/ I know it's only opinion, and 2/ I usually get strengthening feedback and 3/ even if nobody else cares, I still love what I'm doing..

So #3 is what you've got to strive towards, I think..

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

"Hi. I'm sorry to say that I don't think we should see each other again. The dates have been great and I think you're really good company, but unfortunately I don't have any butterflies in my stomach. Good luck in you future search. Hugs"

That is what I would call a high-quality No. Something to be grateful for! I like it that it's a text; a phone call would demand an immediate response from you that you may not be prepared to give without getting all reactivated, while with a text you can recover yourself and acknowledge in a conscious way.

[Coffeesmurf]

Thanks to the both of you. After thinking about it, I suppose you're right. It probably was the best way of letting me know and the message itself was pretty clear and courteous. Maybe I'm just a little perplexed at why she suddenly did a 180 degree turn from being very clearly interested to not being interested at all.

Most of all, I guess I just need more experience with dating - having never dated anyone before this year. I think maybe I just need to cut myself some slack.. I'm pretty perfectionistic and quick to assume I made some mistakes in the dating process rather than it just being a case of us not being a good match.

I agree about attachment. I think trying to get rid of the attachment to outcome would be the best way to improve my "dating game".. as well as developing an abundance mentality and really realise there's lots and lots of women out there and screwing up with one isn't really a disaster.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

I think trying to get rid of the attachment to outcome would be the best way to improve my "dating game".. as well as developing an abundance mentality and really realise there's lots and lots of women out there and screwing up with one isn't really a disaster.

You might want to shift your perspective from "trying to get rid of attachment" to something that feels more like positive intention. It may take a bit of looking for that, but it works best if it inspires you. For instance, maybe try on:

-- Acceptance
-- Joyful connection with lots of women
-- Adventure

...whatever possibility would inspire you and turn you on and have dating be FUN for you, rather than involving the chore of trying to get rid of something. The fun that you are having will be catching -- women will be drawn into your orbit if you're dating for fun.

And you certainly didn't "screw up"!! You triumphed!

[Coffeesmurf]

You're right about focusing on what I want and not what I don't want, Angela. I think instead of getting rid of attachment to outcome - "being in the moment and having fun together" sums up how I would like my dating interactions to be.

Sometimes I have a tendency to take things to seriously and talk at lengths about less exciting things, like her work. My best dates have been ones where we just have fun and share an experience together - like mountainbiking or cooking an exiting meal together.

Ah - almost forgot.. I completed this goal Saturday night:

• Join the group I mountainbike with for beers and a night out (4)

which lead to completing this goal:

• Have a conversation with an attractive girl while out on the town (10)

I actually talked to a whole group of girls in a club - not something I've ever done before, so that's pretty huge for me. Although the conversation with one of the girls did have an awkward moment when I asked her how she knew one of the other girls and she said: "Oh - we spent a lot of time in the psychiatric ward together" Turned out most of them suffered from anorexia - very sweet girls though and had a great time with them. Although I've learned my lesson about getting involved with girls with psychiatric disorders..

You're right - I did succeed.. thanks for reminding me I need to remind myself that the important thing is for me to try and act in accordance with my values.. not what the outcome of dating a particular girl ends up being. I still have some work ahead of me, particularly in regards to changing my old beliefs about needing approval, supplicating and other "nice guy" tendencies - but I'm going to enjoy the voyage as best I can!

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Sometimes I have a tendency to take things to seriously and talk at lengths about less exciting things, like her work. My best dates have been ones where we just have fun and share an experience together - like mountainbiking or cooking an exiting meal together.

Ah - almost forgot.. I completed this goal Saturday night:

• Join the group I mountainbike with for beers and a night out (4)

which lead to completing this goal:

• Have a conversation with an attractive girl while out on the town (10)

I actually talked to a whole group of girls in a club - not something I've ever done before, so that's pretty huge for me. Although the conversation with one of the girls did have an awkward moment when I asked her how she knew one of the other girls and she said: "Oh - we spent a lot of time in the psychiatric ward together" Turned out most of them suffered from anorexia - very sweet girls though and had a great time with them. Although I've learned my lesson about getting involved with girls with psychiatric disorders..

You're right - I did succeed.. thanks for reminding me I need to remind myself that the important thing is for me to try and act in accordance with my values.. not what the outcome of dating a particular girl ends up being. I still have some work ahead of me, particularly in regards to changing my old beliefs about needing approval, supplicating and other "nice guy" tendencies - but I'm going to enjoy the voyage as best I can!

It sounds like your time with that girl was awesome and you did very well, it just didn't have a future.

I can always think of fun things to talk about, but do so in a too serious way and monotone.. and sometimes too much about myself, I think.. But think I just need to relax..

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

It sounds like your time with that girl was awesome and you did very well, it just didn't have a future.

I think you're right. Also, I've learned a lot from it (and my previous dates with other girls) and I'm looking forward to dating the next girl.

I can always think of fun things to talk about, but do so in a too serious way and monotone.. and sometimes too much about myself, I think.. But think I just need to relax..

Yeah - I think relaxing is the main part. I usually ended up talking too much about myself on a date if there were a lot of silences and I felt like I had to drive the main part of the conversation. Lately I've started saying nothing when there's an pause and wait for her to say something - since she's just as responsible for keeping the conversation alive.

I think the real trick is really listening to her when she's talking about things she's passionate about and be genuinely interested. I used to fidget a lot when talking to attractive girls because I would get nervous from worrying about what to say next. Being in the moment lessens that immensely. Besides, I've found that fidgeting because I'm nervous is just an "action tendency" - it's entirely possible to project a feeling of being calm, confident and collected even if you're feeling extremely nervous. Lots of people who speak in public are terrified, but still act like they're in total control. My experience tells me that acting calm and confident can in itself make me more calm - "fake it till you make it", I guess

By the way - my next goals are:

• Set up a date with the girl I've started writing with on the dating site (7)
• Hit the clubs with friends on Friday and try out cheesy pickup lines - with the specific goal of getting rejected (10)

[Coffeesmurf]

• Start a conversation with a stranger at my yoga class (6)

Done. Seemed pretty easy, actually.. but she was also pretty talkative

[2ko]

I'm in

this thread is just another synchronicity that I should pursue this now.

[brendannz]

Yep, I think with setting new goals, after the "rejection" you're already in the right direction..

Today I took a Dutch friend (who I met when I visited another city) around my city, and gave him a bit of a tour..

Doesn't really get a grading for fear-facing, because it was a low fear-factor, but 5 years ago, this would've been a scary activity for me, so it was good.

But was pretty cool, because it was fun, plus made me refresh on all the history stuff, and also was giving value, and leadership, so counts as a social growth exercise..

Now I need to find some more social fun.. It would be cool to guide more tourists around the place, it's fun, It might be a good idea to set myself up for couch surfing or something, anyone have any ideas? (other than the couch surfing website)

[Coffeesmurf]

Sounds like a great experience, brendannz!

Originally Posted by brendannz

Doesn't really get a grading for fear-facing, because it was a low fear-factor, but 5 years ago, this would've been a scary activity for me, so it was good.

I think this is a really crucial thing to remember. It's easy for me to forget how much I've really grown in just the last five years.. at that time I was pretty overweight, had very low self-esteem and was living a life on autopilot. I was never meeting new people or trying new things - and had zero experience with the opposite sex. Now I'm very fit, my self-esteem has improved greatly and I'm doing things I never dreamed I could do - and many of them with ease!

For instance, after talking with the attractive girls in the club this weekend, I found myself wondering what I could have done better.. and then it dawned on me that just talking to a girl in a club is something I have never done before in my entire life

Great idea about offering tourists to crash on your couch, by the way - my little brother has done something similar and now has friends all over the world.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Coffeesmurf

Sounds like a great experience, brendannz!


I think this is a really crucial thing to remember. It's easy for me to forget how much I've really grown in just the last five years.. at that time I was pretty overweight, had very low self-esteem and was living a life on autopilot. I was never meeting new people or trying new things - and had zero experience with the opposite sex. Now I'm very fit, my self-esteem has improved greatly and I'm doing things I never dreamed I could do - and many of them with ease!

For instance, after talking with the attractive girls in the club this weekend, I found myself wondering what I could have done better.. and then it dawned on me that just talking to a girl in a club is something I have never done before in my entire life

Great idea about offering tourists to crash on your couch, by the way - my little brother has done something similar and now has friends all over the world.

yep, and you probably didn't talk to the girls because you thought they were goddesses, and now you're finding they've just got out of the psychiatric ward.

Myself 5 years ago.. I did talk to people really, but I had a really paranoid world view.. I was starting to train myself not to believe the world was against me..

You're about 32 if I remember correctly? I think sometimes it's good if you don't peak too early like teens or early 20s.. Means you've still got plenty of life to live, and plenty of striving to do..

I dunno about the couch surfing, my friend in the other city did it and when I stayed with him, I made new friends it was great. Plus I was a back packer last year, and I miss the transient lifestyle... I was worried that this year wasn't turning out to be better than last year (every year must be the best year of my life) but now I've learnt new lessons and having new experiences, it's starting to go well.. Main thing is to stay happy, I think..

My house is pretty much an apartment, so 1 couch, and not a lot of floor space.. But I'll try and find some creative ways to meet new people and have more fun.. my immediate friends seem to have different interests.

[Coffeesmurf]

Originally Posted by brendannz

yep, and you probably didn't talk to the girls because you thought they were goddesses, and now you're finding they've just got out of the psychiatric ward.

Hehe, exactly! You're right - the best is yet to come.. and good to hear you've come a long way as well

[2ko]

my goal isn't anything specific yet. right now it is just say yes to any social opportunity that people ask me or I ask myself.

[Gazzali]

social courage also depends on what kind of job you're doing right now. If you are a lawyer the chances of gelling with the public is through arguments and winning. If you're a taxman, you can be commanding. There is public shyness with everyone. See the other person on the same level and be genuinely interested. There is at least one point the other person is better than you are. Find out and learn.