Your experiences with PUA (Pick Up Artists). Male and Female Experiences Required!

[PhoenixFlames]

I have noticed that in some threads on this Forum there has been mentions of the "PUA" Movement; from Steve Pavlina asking about David De Angelos Materials, to women mentioning how they had been hit on by "ingenuine" PUAs in Nightclubs.

For those not in the know PUA is an acroymn for "Pick Up Artist". These are the stuff of legend and I'm sure the stereotype of a smooth talking guy in a black open collared shirt, with a hairy chest, sporting a gold madallion, with a knowledge of cheap wine and bragging about his secondhand sports car comes to Mind.

However in the late 1990's early 2000- PUA gained mainstream attention when Eric Von Markovic aka Mystery Method (there was a show in the US called VH1s the Pick Up Artist) inspired a generation of would be Pick Up Artists to follow his step by step Method that he claimed mapped out a females emotional circuitry (whether the female was aware of it or not).

Now the market is booming Internationally and many "MPUAs" (that is Master Pick Up Artists) have developed their own methods which they charge $75 to $1000 per hour or $3000 for a Weekend PUA Bootcamp.


Now before I got into PUA (but subsiquently left for reasons I will document later), I was heavily into reading Relationship books, womens magazines, Psychology, Evolutionary Biology, NLP, Science Programmes talking about the "Mathematics" behind Beauty and Sexual Selection, as well as having sexual relations of my own in the real world.

Whilst a lot of PUA does indeed fill gaps and help a lot of guys understand what they are doing differently to guys who are more successful and experienced with women (and no sometimes even women aren't conciously aware of why they go for "Bad Boy" Types).


Overall I will slowly mention what modern PUA teaches, why not ALL men and women can benefit from it- some "secrets" that haven't been published and finally WHY I left PUA before I even begun despite having success with it.

So is PUA a Psudeo Science, have you been "bothered" by PUAs or even dating one or had a One Night Stand (or Single Night Lay as PUAs would call it) or maybe you are a successful Male or unsuccessful Male.

PS- as a polite note please do not plug any PUA companies nor denounce a Company WHILST promoting another. Name them- good points and bad points BUT do not mention products without a balanced review thanx

[ABdude]

I have known about the PUA community ever since I saw Ross Jeffries on Geraldo Rivera promoting his book "How to get any woman you desire into bed with you". About six years ago I stumbled upon a website called "Sosuave" and started reading the "Don Juan" bible and even tried their bootcamp. It was then, that I realized how much work needed to be done on being a man, and I set out to completely change that part of my personality. That being said, I had to sift through a lot of crap because a lot of what was on that website and forum had to do with pickup lines and rules. I always believed that while a certain amount of game was necessary, using canned lines seemed so fake, so I set out to find out why those lines actually worked in the first place. That being said, I can see why some PUA would teach canned lines because its a lot easier to rehearse and say something you memorize then on the fly, especially when you are nervous.

I managed to download Johnny Soporno's free Seductive Reasoning videos, and am currently listening to "The Blueprint Decoded" from Real Social Dynamics. I have read "Double your dating" and a few other dating related e-books, but out of all of them I would have to say the material from Real Social Dynamics has helped me the most. RSD actually used to incorporate canned lines and phrases, but due to the over exposure of PUA, they have reverted to more inner game type stuff. So far I om only halfway through The Blueprint Decoded, but while I was listening to it, it helped me understand why I acted the way I used to act, and gave me tips to overcome that mindset. In fact, I used that mindset to help with my nervousness behind the wheel, and to take action on a girl I wanted to ask out, (she said yes btw). The only thing I do not like about RSD, is they focus too much on going to bars to meet women. Because of the noise level in clubs, its damn near impossible to keep focus, let alone meet anyone. I found the best way to meet girls is through activities and clubs.

Anyways, that's just my experience with it. I am interested in everyone else's opinion.

[funchy]

As a woman, I can spot the act a mile away. It is an act. They coach you to become a better actor, then you out in public and try out your acting skills on people. I can smell it a mile away. Unfortunately my gut reaction is to lose any respect for the guy.

The problem is that in order to believe in doing the act, one must believe become the "PUA". The person you approach is no longer a caring person, they're just another phone number. They're never treated with honesty. The whole game isn't about meeting a good mate, it's about building up one's ego with more and more conquests.

The PUA industry converts shy good guys into actors who play a very selfish and short-sighted role. While I understand how hard it is to talk to strangers or meet people, being coached to lie is not going to make you a better person.

And truth be told, the PUA "experts" come across to me as buffoons. If they asked me for my phone #, I might give it, but then again I'm a friendly person and I'd give it to pretty much anyone who asks. And when they called, I'd be thinking how funny it is this "artist" is calling me trying to use me.

You don't need to spend all your free time reading PUA sites or buying their books. Nobody is born with confidence -- we all have to learn it ourselves. So just put the books down, go outside, and talk to people. The worst anyone can say is "no". Once you get past that, you can do anything!

[intj123]

Originally Posted by funchy

As a woman, I can spot the act a mile away. It is an act. They coach you to become a better actor, then you out in public and try out your acting skills on people. I can smell it a mile away. Unfortunately my gut reaction is to lose any respect for the guy.

The problem is that in order to believe in doing the act, one must believe become the "PUA". The person you approach is no longer a caring person, they're just another phone number. They're never treated with honesty. The whole game isn't about meeting a good mate, it's about building up one's ego with more and more conquests.

The PUA industry converts shy good guys into actors who play a very selfish and short-sighted role. While I understand how hard it is to talk to strangers or meet people, being coached to lie is not going to make you a better person.

And truth be told, the PUA "experts" come across to me as buffoons. If they asked me for my phone #, I might give it, but then again I'm a friendly person and I'd give it to pretty much anyone who asks. And when they called, I'd be thinking how funny it is this "artist" is calling me trying to use me.

You don't need to spend all your free time reading PUA sites or buying their books. Nobody is born with confidence -- we all have to learn it ourselves. So just put the books down, go outside, and talk to people. The worst anyone can say is "no". Once you get past that, you can do anything!

hmm interesting, so you would give your phone # and pick up the phone and talk to someone you don't respect? Maybe there is some truth to this PUA stuff, but it's still not my style, it might sound weird from a dude but I'm not into trying to bang every piece of meat I see.

[LWr]

Originally Posted by funchy

The worst anyone can say is "no". Once you get past that, you can do anything!

What's funny is that, this is usually the first advice given on PUA sites.

BTW in the last few years, the PUA movement has shifted towards self-improvement instead of actor/mindgame. I actually came across this site because it was mentioned on a PUA forum...


FWIW, PUA forums actually changed my life. When I was 21 years old, my 5 years relationship ended. I had pretty much never with flirted anyone ; I had no idea *at all* what to do. I was clueless and frustrated.

Although PUA forums teach you all kind of mind tricks and how to 'build rapport' kind of stuff, they also point you to ways to improve yourself.

I have learned *tons* of things on these forums that I probably would have never figured out on my own. How and when to keep eye contact, subtly shifting conversations towards positive subjects, using kino appropriately (kino = physical contact, in PUA jargon), how to escalate from kino to kissing, to sex, etc.

Lots of advice given on these sites may make you go 'well duh!', but it doesn't come naturally at all for a lot of guys. I'm willing to bet most guys who can't get laid do not do all of this:
-Workout
-well groomed (includes haircut)
-well dressed at all times (casual but clean, i.e. no torn t-shirt but no tuxedo either)
-Smile and act confident (but not arrogant)
-Eye contact
-initiate physical contact (without being creepy!)

I could go on and on about what 'PUA' forums brought me (and I have nothing to sell!)
I have a very high libido, yet haven't been sexually frustrated for the last 3 years. Out of those 3 years, I've been in a stable relationship for only one, yet the most time I've spent without sex was 2 weeks. I've had sex with several girls I considered 'out of my league'. I've had sex with 2 girls that were literally part of my 'fantasies' (and never thought it could ever happen). I'm not talking about meaningless one night stands with strangers ; all these girls were distant friends/friends of friends etc.

From what I just said you might think PUA is only about sex ; it isn't true.
Like I said I also had 1 year relationship with a girl I 'picked-up'. I'm currently building a relationship with a girl I've been seeing for a few months. However being able to 'pick-up' girls gives me options, and frees me from sexual frustration.

[James81]

Originally Posted by funchy

As a woman, I can spot the act a mile away. It is an act. They coach you to become a better actor, then you out in public and try out your acting skills on people. I can smell it a mile away. Unfortunately my gut reaction is to lose any respect for the guy.

You can spot the act when it's just an act.

The guys, though, who use it in an authentic way? I'm willing to bet you wouldn't spot that at all.

That's the thing about PUA...a lot of people assume that it's just canned routines designed to get into a girl's pants. And it can be used for precisely that reason. But with most of the stuff I've seen, the idea is to "fake it til you make it." Go through the routines until you get comfortable being yourself and desensitize yourself to rejection.

Originally Posted by funchy

The problem is that in order to believe in doing the act, one must believe become the "PUA". The person you approach is no longer a caring person, they're just another phone number. They're never treated with honesty. The whole game isn't about meeting a good mate, it's about building up one's ego with more and more conquests.

You are talking about the first "phase" of PUA. And you're right, they become just a phone number because...well, that's the idea. The idea is to take a guy who thinks of girls as princesses and desensitize him to that loopy way of thinking and give him some self respect. And part of that process is to desensitize him to rejection. Going after phone numbers is a great way to do that.

Originally Posted by funchy

The PUA industry converts shy good guys into actors who play a very selfish and short-sighted role. While I understand how hard it is to talk to strangers or meet people, being coached to lie is not going to make you a better person.

The PUA industry has done no such thing. Women have done that. Don't believe me? Take a look around at what our society considers to be the "most attractive women" (subjective, I know) and take a look at the guy that's on her arm.

what is that guy generally like? Is he a sensitive, caring guy? Or is he more likely to be a giant gaping ass?

Take a look at the warm, caring guy. What's he like? Who is he with? Does he even have a girlfriend? if so, what's she like?

These are just generalizations, btw, i'm sure you could come back with examples to prove me wrong, but I'm asking you to look at the scene as a whole and see what type of guy is getting the "most" girls and the "hottest" girls.

See what I'm getting at?

Originally Posted by funchy

And truth be told, the PUA "experts" come across to me as buffoons. If they asked me for my phone #, I might give it, but then again I'm a friendly person and I'd give it to pretty much anyone who asks. And when they called, I'd be thinking how funny it is this "artist" is calling me trying to use me.

I'd wager that you are exactly the type of girl who would fall for a "PUA-style pickup" if it was handled correctly. The reason I think that is because you so adamantly oppose the idea, yet you'd still give your phone number to the guy. lol That makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by funchy

You don't need to spend all your free time reading PUA sites or buying their books. Nobody is born with confidence -- we all have to learn it ourselves. So just put the books down, go outside, and talk to people. The worst anyone can say is "no". Once you get past that, you can do anything!

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

And you can learn that through PUA. You are looking at the deviant side of PUA. The side where there are guys are insecure about themselves and don't get women who do not deal with that insecurity but learn some social dynamics.

The other side, the side that *I* believe PUA is truly trying to do, is that PUA is trying to teach guys how to be men. To teach men to start on the inside and let it spiral outward so that things come natural to you.

And that stuff is not learned through a book. BUT a book is a great starting place for that to give you an idea on which direction to head off in. It's no different than other personal development stuff. Reading Steve's book won't change your life. But it'll give you a direction to tail off into which WILL change your life if you just apply what you learn and what resonates with you.

[m18pak]

PU changed my life: it made me realize that I had the ability to change myself, to grow past my limitations and problems; in fact PU was what started my whole journey of self-improvement.

Having said that, however, I would still like to qualify that PU will only make you happier if you are willing to change yourself as a person, if you're willing to overcome your ego, if you're willing to take a moral inventory of your character. If you learn a lot of game and become a social robot without making any real changes to yourself you'll still be miserable even if you are successful with women.

I think the reality is that a lot of men need the transformative opportunity PU offers to become a better person - not necessarily PU itself. I would say that PU isn't really a good thing, that its philosophy of self-transformation is what's really of value.

[chrisrushton]

Originally Posted by m18pak

PU changed my life: it made me realize that I had the ability to change myself, to grow past my limitations and problems; in fact PU was what started my whole journey of self-improvement.

Exactly. The whole point of trying to become a PUA is to improve yourself as a person. Become someone who girls want to be with. Girls, honestly, would you rather talk to a guy who is articulate, confident and a little bit idiosyncratic or some random drunk who looks like every other guy in the club and thinks that by buying you drinks he somehow has the right to take you home and have lame boring and totally meaningless sex?

The old spiderman cliché springs to mind "with great power comes great responsibility" and this is true of PUA too. It's easy to lie about things to create an image that the girl might find attractive. This is only a few steps away from date rape in my opinion, it's not good for the girl and incredibly selfish from the guy. That's against my particular code and something I won't do. It should always be the woman's choice in my opinion, but it's up to me to be the best I can. If I don't make the effort, why should she?

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by James81

The PUA industry has done no such thing. Women have done that. Don't believe me? Take a look around at what our society considers to be the "most attractive women" (subjective, I know) and take a look at the guy that's on her arm.

Yeah, exactly, who really holds the power in relationships.. it's the women who chooses right?

Most couples I know over here seem to have some/ a lot of similarities between them, I'm not really sure where the most attractive women are and the ******** they're dating... Mind you, I don't go to lots of parties and have no workmates in my home office.. So I don't really see the abusive ******** picking up the most attractive women, but certain that it happens.

But generally the nerdy 'nice guys' and geeks think too much, and so become more timid than the typical male ******** who speak loudly, and think less etc..

I think the problem is not the PUAs, like people get into PUA when they're lonely, and they realise that buying gifts and excessive flattery isn't going to end their loneliness.. So the people getting into PUA are only trying to get more love in their lives.

I guess sometimes men base women entirely on their physical appearance. Just because she has blonde hair and big boobs doesn't make her interesting or smart or fun, I guess... and that's when relating becomes really difficult, I guess.

Yeah, talking and connecting with people isn't that straight forward really.. The world can be so petty, I guess..

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by funchy

So just put the books down, go outside, and talk to people. The worst anyone can say is "no". Once you get past that, you can do anything!

That's why they get into PUA in the first place. Don't know what to say!