arguing with someone who always plays the victim

[xoxo]

I argue with my boyfriend every day, little things, big things, & everything inbetween we are both argumentative people, and at times I enjoy the challenge of opposing views & oppinions. The thing is whenever we are arguing about anything personal, he continues to play the victim role, NO MATTER WHAT. A couple months ago he tried to have sex with one of his old friends at a bar after being loaded drunk, we had just started dating, she ended up telling me months later after my intuition told me something else was going on & i messaged her, he told me it was cause I was gone away, that I was the one who made things fast for him, that i was the one and blah blah blah, he also told me that he never wanted to tell me because he thought i would have left him and he wanted us to be in love first than tell me, so i would have more trouble leaving. A lot of our arguments are based on this web of lies, I dont know how to trust him again. I found emails on his computer a year before he even met me that he had tried to hire a prostitute, I never brought it up to him till he tried to tell me that he thought prostitutes were gross ect and I told him I had read something , he became extremely embarassed and said how it was the lowest point in his life ect. His friend that was the girl he tried to cheat on me with also told me that he had talked a lot of bad things about me when he first met me, that he was only with me cause he didnt think hed meet a girl with " nicer tits " and that he was only with me because of my looks & that he was going to train me to not to believe in a god because i was a moron, ( i am a diest and he is an athiest), He then told me it was because she was in love with him and he had rejected her before so he was trying to make her feel better, now months have passed i do love him, and although I have oppurtunities to be with other men that have pursed me in the past even many of my exes, I dont know what to do, I am tempted by them and a new life. He has become extremely obsessive and possessive, whenever we fight or argue about the cheating & lies, i tell him i need him to take accountability/ responsibility, i want to get over it so bad, but im sick of the victim mentality and roles that he plays. He is extremely intelligent which comes with extreme arrogance he has no humility for being wrong, or others views. I guess I need help in the area of seeing if its best for me to move on, to be open for others, or to try to mend whats already there, I was always a trusting person in other relationships I could always be vunerable, but Ive lost that in this one. His past has made our future almost impossible,. He has become very controling with my interactions with other men ( checking my phone, my messages on the computer) but I feel that behavior has been mirrored from when I first found out he cheated on me, I felt a need to control him, now Ive released all of that & after a couple weeks stopped it, but it has done a complete 365 with him doing it to me, he is the victim now. He is the one who is scared I will cheat on him, he focuses so much time and energy on it that hes the victim that every day he will tell ME he doesnt trust ME. I feel so frustrated that I dont even have time to heal over this, What would you do at this point,?

[James81]

Wow, holy crap.

I don't think you're asking the right question here.

The question you need to be asking is this:

How can I get away and break up with this train wreck of a boyfriend?

It's not a question of whether you should do it or not. It's a question of what's the quickest and most effective way to end things. You aren't going to change him. He's going to change YOU (i.e. bring YOU down to his level), and probably already has a little bit.

The question, then, that I pitch to you is this:

Are you ready to do what you already know you need to do and leave this guy in your past?

[xoxo]

Thanks James81 for your feedback, It makes it hard because he is my first love, Ive had relationships before but theres something about him that made me fall for him very fast and hard. I dont like the control freak kind of person I became and I slowly took steps to get away from it, my friends are constantly telling me you can do better than this, you are better than this. but I dont know what it is that makes me feel so trapped in this relationship. I started to keep a journal to outline my thoughts that I was giving up my biggest insecurities to, but when i left my computer on he came and read the all, I was extremely hurt by this, because my intention of the journal was to grow by MYSELF, in the diary was my biggest fears and body insecurities, feelings that had nothing to do with him, problems that i wanted to overcome and the steps needed to do so, it had kept detailed parts about our relationship and wrote about that some part of me saw this as a placeholder one, because of the hurtful words and person he had portrayed me to his friends made me feel that he didnt deep down truly respect me, & how could I marry someone who told his friends that he only went out for me because of my looks/ " tits ". I wrote about wanting to feel a man who protected me, not hurt me, he read this & brings it up to me still daily months after, which continues to hurt me because it was my private thoughts that I wanted to work through not to have used against me for his victim role. I didnt get after him much about reading the diary because after I found out he had cheated on me, I checked his history and saw that he had been watching porn, and was upset about it. I never cared before but after this it seemed to be an extreme strain on our relationship. I usually have been strong and independent before this relationship but feel unsure and insecure about my decisions.

[James81]

Well, hun, there's nothing to be unsure about. I'm telling you (and I'm sure plenty of others here will chime in as well) that you are not making a mistake getting away from this guy. These are not normal relationship issues. These are deep seated problems that will take years to change.

The decision, then, isn't as unsure as you claim. You know the answer. You do. You know that you need to get away from this guy. You know that you aren't going to change this guy. You know that staying with this guy just means more pain for YOU.

So, to me, the decision seems simple: Your job is to leave him and then stay away from him.

Think like that. Trust not only your gut instinct (which drove you to make this thread), but the myriad of outside voices that are all in agreement. Instead of asking yourself SHOULD you leave this guy, instead ask yourself HOW you can leave this guy.

I promise you, that if you shift your thinking in this way, it will seem so much easier and solutions will present themselves to you if you ponder on it in that manner.

[Foggy]

I recently got out of a relationship with someone who had a similar problem with playing the victim (not as bad as your bf, I don't think). The thing is, after a while of being in this relationship, I started to find myself feeling like a victim as well. This negative thought pattern is fairly contagious, especially if your partner continually makes you out to be the bad guy. In the end, I was operating on her level, and it sounds like you may be at the same point that I was at. You can point out a million ways in which he's hurt you and your probably wondering "After all this, how can he still feel like the victim, surely I can make him see everything that he's done to me and he'll be remorseful and try to make it work!" At least, that's how I felt. And then I realized that I was the one who was doing this to myself because I kept coming back for more when it was clear she wasn't going to change. The first step is getting away from him. It's not going to help you to dwell on all the ways in which he has hurt you, it's not going to fix the relationship and you're not going to get any sort of closure from it. Let go of him and let go of his actions.

[Angela]

You are singing the Chicken Opera, woman.

That's an old song that starts off with all the horrible things the guy has done, and the refrain is:

"...BUT I LOOOOOOOOVE HIMMMMM!!!!! SQUAWK!!!!

Yours is pretty classic. This guy just sounds laughably awful, like the neighbor in "Back to the Future" who tortures the hero: "Hellllooooooo! McFlyyyy!!!" and just begs for comeuppance. Really the epitome of the Bad Boyfriend, and you just doubt your own judgement more and more and think less of yourself and start to become a person you can't stand to be... but you stay, because you LOOOOOVE HIMMMM! Squawk!

I know, it's hard. I've sung the Chicken Opera, too. People will tell you he's bad to the bone and you should leave immediately, and your first impulse is to defend him: "he's not that bad. I mean, aside from the lying, cheating, manipulating, privacy-invading, controlling, and junkyard dog meanness, he's really a sweet guy. He's misunderstood. Had a hard childhood. Needs me to teach him to be more conscious, that's all." And the idea of leaving him feels hard as hell, right? Like it will actually KILL you in a way, yes? Maybe not literally DIE, but the pain you anticipate is humongous, unbearable, not worth it -- you'd wish you were dead. Oh, boy. It's hard, alright.

The longer you stay, the more like him you become. The more you will loathe and distrust yourself. The less esteem you will have for yourself and the more you will believe you DESERVE to be treated badly. You can do it now, and it will be hard; or you can do it later, and it will be harder. It's that old band-aid analogy. Rip it off, cut all contact, and it's going to hurt like a sonofabitch, or pull slowly away at the edges, ease it off, and the pain feels a bit less intense but lasts a lot longer. Or wait for that one, unequivacable sign that it's time to leave, like he breaks your jaw or has sex with your pet -- except that sign never comes, because your tolerance just grows the longer you stay. And the guy will sense exactly how far he can go each time, and exactly how to manipulate into feeling pity or defensive or weak so that you'll stay -- just like he did with that whole "I was gonna tell you, but wanted to wait until you were too in love to leave."

It's a rough spot, and your choices up to this point have gotten you here. You are not a victim. You have created the situation, and the good news is that now you have a new choice. I know what I would do, I'm pretty sure what most people here in the forums will advise you to do, I know what your friends think you should do, and what they think of you for not doing it. But none of that matters. All that matters is: what do you choose to do in the face of being treated like a large lump of dog doo-doo? Whatever choice you make is perfectly valid, but please don't fall into the trap of believing you are powerless.

Who you are is infinite power, joy, beauty and abundance. I'd like to see you make a choice that honors that, and I'd love for you to have a romantic partner who supports you and has you feeling good and loving and generous and joyful. How about you? What do you want? What would you like to create for yourself? What will you choose?

When I was singing the Chicken Opera, I sometimes said, "Being with him is better than nothing." But the real truth is: NOTHING is better than being with him."

Best wishes, and lots of love. You will make this work out for yourself.

[KazeCraven]

First of all, I have to say that my post will be colored with my feelings towards this guy you are with, whose behavior thoroughly disgusts me. And yes, I will be making assumptions.

I don't know why it is, but you have mixed feelings about being with this guy who not only takes NO responsibility, but also is only with you because you are attractive and even then he still isn't satisfied. If James's answer was enough for you to get going, I wouldn't give your feelings for him a second thought, but there is certainly something you need to work out here girl! If you can't get around to asking how to leave, ask "Why can't I leave?" What is holding you back? I don't think anyone here is going to tell you how to work it out, or even that trying to work it out is even a question.

If I were in your situation, I would simply pack up all my stuff and walk out of there. Don't make it about him, he'll find a way to play on your emotions if you make him the center of the argument. I'd just tell him, "I can't do this anymore." And it's true, if I were there, I wouldn't be able to handle it anymore. No matter how much I thought I loved him, if he kept on intruding into my private stuff, treading on the boundaries of our relationship, and never even apologizing? There's no way I could stay in that relationship. In fact, the moment he brought up the fact that he went through my private journal, I would have been out of there. For me, that's no one's business, and no "sorry" could ever make up for purposely reading my journal without my permission and then proceeding to rub it in my face!

And "I didn't want to tell you because I thought you'd leave me."? What!? Are you kidding me? There are only two options in my book: "I didn't DO it because I thought you'd leave me." or "I'm sorry, but I have to leave because there are more important things than our relationship."!

Tell him you have to go, tell him you need time away from him to sort it out, tell him you need to see him take responsibility before you can come back, tell him that you know you'll never be together because he isn't who you need him to be.

[xoxo]

Thankyou all for your excellent advice ! I havent been able to talk about all the things in my relationship that I wanted to share with my friends and family because out of some fear that I would hear these exact words and they know the details. Ive always thought it would it just get better, and that it would take time for him. I have felt responsible for a lot of his actions in the relationship, and i guess thats why hes able to play the victim role. He will have random vents of rage like tonight where he blamed me " for talking to men all day" and that he " was waiting for me to cheat on him" i never have cheated on him or any man that Ive dated, but he has on me, yet I am still blamed for it to cover up what hes done. Every day he tells me that he cant live without me & will cry when I try to talk about what I feel I deserve. Like Angela said in some way ive been waiting for the straw that will "break the cammels back " and make me realize, but I felt slightly liberated after reading the advice that Im not this evil ♥♥♥♥♥ that Ive felt like for the last year.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by xoxo

Thankyou all for your excellent advice !

...

What will you do with it? What's your next step?

[xoxo]

Well when I first posted this, I thought I would learn different techniques or could re-train my thoughts to " not care so much " but reading this and really thinking about internally I see that I need to get out of the relationship but when I brought it up last night, he ran away crying, and has became extremely angry and sad saying I reminded him of a girl who rejected him when he was 17. Ive looked into different appartment situations for today, but have felt really sad for him all day, which I know I shouldnt but have trouble not letting him become the victim again.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by xoxo

Ive looked into different appartment situations for today, but have felt really sad for him all day, which I know I shouldnt but have trouble not letting him become the victim again.

In that case, why not just let him go ahead and become the victim again? Who are you to not let him be what he wants to be? If that's what he's committed to being, why not just be generous and allow it?

His choosing to be the victim doesn't mean you have to choose to be the rescuer, you know.

[Brutha]

I havent been able to talk about all the things in my relationship that I wanted to share with my friends and family because out of some fear that I would hear these exact words and they know the details.[...]
Ive looked into different appartment situations for today, but have felt really sad for him all day, which I know I shouldnt but have trouble not letting him become the victim again.

You probably should talk with friends and family about it. There only a certain amount of emotional support that can be given over the internet and leaving an abusive relationship is hard.

[rawxstasy]

His comments about only being with you for your looks and his cheating and turning it around on you remind me of narcissistic personality disorder. This guy is very manipulative. Once he realizes his crying and guilt trips aren't working, he's going to turn up the heat. Be prepared.


Here's more info:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) : How to recognize a narcissist

I would suggest you get as far away as possible from this guy and do it as soon as you can.

[xoxo]

Originally Posted by Angela

In that case, why not just let him go ahead and become the victim again? Who are you to not let him be what he wants to be? If that's what he's committed to being, why not just be generous and allow it?

His choosing to be the victim doesn't mean you have to choose to be the rescuer, you know.

This is really hard for me not to feed into, but I tried that last night by chosing to ignore him when he went on and on telling me I was ruining his life and he knew one day I would leave him, but that I was going to destroy him, it was really hard for me to ignore him because it is SO off from the truth but it actually made him go more crazy for my attention & he threw an extreme tantrum. It was really hard to see him like this because I wanted to comfort him & I felt guilt beyond, even though I knew rationally I hadn't done anything but not give into the bickering and power struggle.
Im actually going to view another appartment today I havent decided whether to tell him or not , because he senses there is something different in our relationship, and for the last 2 days has become extremely sensitive and different. He has become 100 times more needy and wants me to re-assure him that I am not " seeing anyone else or leaving him." I feel a lot of guilt that I want to get rid of and unsure how to do it.

[xoxo]

Originally Posted by rawxstasy

His comments about only being with you for your looks and his cheating and turning it around on you remind me of narcissistic personality disorder. This guy is very manipulative. Once he realizes his crying and guilt trips aren't working, he's going to turn up the heat. Be prepared.


Here's more info:
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) : How to recognize a narcissist

I would suggest you get as far away as possible from this guy and do it as soon as you can.

Thankyou, I just finished reading the article, and there are a lot of simulars behavior traits that he has that are wrote in this. I think he is starting to realize the guilt trip arent working or hes not getting the attention he used to get, and his tantrums have deffinitley got worse, I was thinking of maybe writing him a letter, ( that way he can think on it , instead of having to verbally backlash right away ) telling him how I have felt for the last month or so. I know he is a very insecure guy, and being with him has made me a lot more insecure as well. I still keep in touch with all of my exes, before this relationship I had no trust issues what so ever with men. I was really vunerable when I met him because I had never experienced anything like this,and he told me thats why his actions in the beginning of the relationship were against me, because I didnt " let him chase me enough" and I " told him I loved him too quick." He is really trying hard to repair everything in the last 2 days, but I still feel an emptiness if that makes sense, I feel really out of control & nervous. Today he has played a lot on me not forgiving him, that if i forgave him this would all go away, Im a forgiving person but I have never been able to forgive the pain Ive experienced because he never has truly taken accountability or responsibility, he just cant grasp that , I really want a way to make myself feel free from him and the shame & responsibility & guilt Ive felt.

[aggie]

i read everything in your first post...but you lost me after stating he tried to have sex with one of his friends.....

you shouldn't have needed anything after that...easy for me to say....i know because i was in a similar situation and had the same thing happen and i was "in love" enough and foolish enough to stay...for another 2 1/2 years of more of the same type of behavior.

he probably needs professional help too, in addition to his obvious character flaws...

it IS difficult to walk away, you CAN be made to feel guilty or responsible. they can even charm you into believing the lies or that it is your fault, or you are jealous or don't love unconditionally and on and on.

but i found out as angela already stated...NOTHING is better than that garbage.

may

[KazeCraven]

Write him a letter...

..AFTER you've completely gotten away from him for at least a week. If you are going to do it at all. (But I wouldn't recommend letting him know where to find you, because this d-bag sounds like he could get downright nasty one you've officially dumped him.)

Oh, and if you do write him a letter be sure to tell him to get a backbone and start taking responsibility for himself:
"You loved me too quick."!? Please, buddy, you need to learn How to Stop Complaining!

Either that, or you can tell him that a friend told you that a man who doesn't take 100% responsibility for himself is not a man, but a mouse. And I don't take credit for that advice either. We're with you on this one; don't let him guilt trip you for his own faults.

[NeedMyCoffee]

Since you are looking at apartments anyway, is there a girlfriend or relative you could stay with for a few weeks? It makes the break faster (rip the band-aid off) and gives you more freedom to find a place you like.

Sounds like this guy is a master manipulator, make a clean break. Don't tell him where you are going, change your phone number, whatever it takes to get away and get back to being the real you. It may be hard, but it will be worth it.

[MidasGirl]

Xoxo, for future reference, could you please try to break your posts into paragraphs? 4-5 sentences per paragraph works well to make it much easier for others reading your posts, and makes for a more pleasurable read. Look at how Steve presents his articles.

That said, I think your boyfriend is a douchebag. Run, don't walk, away from him.

[rawxstasy]

I agree with "need my coffee" Do whatever it takes to get out of there asap. During your time with him, he has observed you closely and knows exactly which buttons to push. That is why you feel so guilty. He is trying to make you feel guilty because he knows that it has worked in the past.

[JSB]

This man may be overemotional, broken and immature, but underneath it there is a part of him that is coldly and effectively mapping and triggering your emotional reactions, adapting and "improving" his manipulative tactics.

He is poisonous.

Leave as soon as you can, and cut off all contact with him. If he shows the slightest hint of stalking behavior, use every legal protection at your disposal.

I'm not trying to spread fear around, I just think a little caution is prudent with someone like that.

[drakecatz]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by xoxo

He is extremely intelligent which comes with extreme arrogance he has no humility for being wrong, or others views.

This is a classic victim view. Should you choose to stay, your opinions, thoughts, feelings, will never matter. You'll reach a point of, "why should I express myself at all?" This guy will keep you confused. It's not much fun to live a muddled life. It's happening, isn't it?

Run right now....